Battlegrounds are broken - or at least not working as intended

bostonguitarkid

I want to keep this devoid of ZOS bashing (or as in most cases, Wrobel bashing) and articulate what appears to be a wide held position: battlegrounds are nearly unplayable. As someone with 1000 or so hours in this game, a paying sub, and someone who forked over money for Morrowind, this is beyond disappointing. I don't think I'm providing any novel analysis, but as someone who has invested lots of money and time in this game, I want to see it succeed.

Before I get into this I want to be clear: there is a great deal of discussion surrounding the balance of this game that is unconstructive. Simply calling something "aids" or "cancer" or ranting against a certain class/person at ZOS is frankly irritating to people who have honest feedback that needs to be relayed to ZOS.

1) Queing system - this has to be a no brainer. Even after the incremental patch from a few days ago, queing takes an absurd amount of time. Given the need to que to even use the battleground system - one of the main attractions of an expansion that you needed to pay to have access to - this has to be a obvious, and its infuriating that ZOS has seemingly not prioritized fixing this. Even giving them the benefit of the doubt - i.e. limited resources and a difficult problem to fix - this has got to be a known issue since early release of the expansion (from like over a month or so ago?). Queing with groups provides a ratio of roughly 2 games for every hour in que. That must be unacceptable. Evidence: my 45-50 BG games/Fengrush's stream.

2) Leaderboards/Rewards - This problem seems like it should have been the most obvious prior to release. Leaderboards are solely based of total score, which means someone could play everyday forever and be at number one, but someone who plays 2 hours a day and wins every game may not even place. Furthermore, AP rewards are outrageous. Someone who plays 10 minutes of PvP capturing 2 (roughly 14k or so) keeps could outscore somone who plays 8 (8 times 1.5k) games of battle grounds, which could take hours depending on ques (see number 1). Evidence: litterally every game I've played and any streamer showing BGs.

3) Healing rewards - Aside from rewards (see number 2), healers receive ridiculously minimal compensation for AP. Someone can end up with no kills, no deaths, but seal the win for their team with quality healing. Important - this is especially important given my own experience with lack of healers in BGs. It's great to have healing medals, but that score is not reflected in AP, nor on the score of the game. Evidence - any warden or templar in deathmatch healing always is bottom of the team. '

4) Nightblades - And finally, why I stopped playing what I paid $40 for. Let me describe a class for yourself and you decide if this mode would be balanced with it: a class BUILT for insane burst damage. A class that can go invisible whenever it would like. A class that's BUILT to pair with the best gear in the game (ie Viper, etc). No other class has remotely close to the advantage that Nightblades have. There's a reason the last game I played had 7 NBs, 2 Dks, 2 Wardens and 1 sorc (me). The reason this is a problem is that there is zero counter play in BGs to Nightblade play style.

There are parts of this patch that are great in my opinion (i.e. Vvardenfell zone, Morrowind questline, I think warden provides interesting and relatively balanced healing). But if ZOS has any desire to create a lasting PvP community, then I think BGs need to be addressed as explained above.

If anyone at ZOS would like to provide responses/clarifications to points above, I would welcome that. Thank you!

casparian

You make some great points, and well-argued. But I don't understand your identification of Nightblades as part of the problem with BGs. Do you have detect pots? Is your bar so stacked you can't afford space for Magelight or revealing flare? You've described some of NB's strengths pretty well, but you've left out the numerous hard counters to NBs that ZOS has already given you.

Calls for class nerfs should not be a part of calls for Battleground fixes.

Anethum

Stamblades are the easiest to kill if u doing right things. 1 detection pot, or magelight or camouflage hunter and he's dead. If u're using skils or pots for immovability, it's also pain for nightblades whwo try to kill u. Yep high burst, but crap survivability when detected.
Agree with 1,2 and 3, disagree about 4.

AnteCoyote

Sorc's hurricane is a heavy counter to nightblades. Just stand near them and kill the squishy little thing while they can't use the stealth that they heavily rely on for survivability. Also, most stam blades can stealth maybe twice in a row. I've been playing warden, and I just aim my shalks in the direction I think they are and do a quick spin around to try and find them after their stealth wears off, since they can't get very far. They have burst, but they are also some of the squishiest people in BGs. If they try to take me alone, I generally have enough health to survive the burst, but they won't have enough to survive mine.

Durham

My small man guild has abandoned battle grounds only half of it will play it due to the point of no CP..... The other half have such a horrible time getting in as a group.... When you do get in the imbalance with procs is one of the most imbalanced aspects of the game .... I'm sorry but battle grounds are not working for us ...

Paazhahdrimaak

I just want to be able to quickly que with a group. Solo no prob.

Dr.NRG

bostonguitarkid wrote: »

I want to keep this devoid of ZOS bashing (or as in most cases, Wrobel bashing) and articulate what appears to be a wide held position: battlegrounds are nearly unplayable. As someone with 1000 or so hours in this game, a paying sub, and someone who forked over money for Morrowind, this is beyond disappointing. I don't think I'm providing any novel analysis, but as someone who has invested lots of money and time in this game, I want to see it succeed.

Before I get into this I want to be clear: there is a great deal of discussion surrounding the balance of this game that is unconstructive. Simply calling something "aids" or "cancer" or ranting against a certain class/person at ZOS is frankly irritating to people who have honest feedback that needs to be relayed to ZOS.

1) Queing system - this has to be a no brainer. Even after the incremental patch from a few days ago, queing takes an absurd amount of time. Given the need to que to even use the battleground system - one of the main attractions of an expansion that you needed to pay to have access to - this has to be a obvious, and its infuriating that ZOS has seemingly not prioritized fixing this. Even giving them the benefit of the doubt - i.e. limited resources and a difficult problem to fix - this has got to be a known issue since early release of the expansion (from like over a month or so ago?). Queing with groups provides a ratio of roughly 2 games for every hour in que. That must be unacceptable. Evidence: my 45-50 BG games/Fengrush's stream.

2) Leaderboards/Rewards - This problem seems like it should have been the most obvious prior to release. Leaderboards are solely based of total score, which means someone could play everyday forever and be at number one, but someone who plays 2 hours a day and wins every game may not even place. Furthermore, AP rewards are outrageous. Someone who plays 10 minutes of PvP capturing 2 (roughly 14k or so) keeps could outscore somone who plays 8 (8 times 1.5k) games of battle grounds, which could take hours depending on ques (see number 1). Evidence: litterally every game I've played and any streamer showing BGs.

3) Healing rewards - Aside from rewards (see number 2), healers receive ridiculously minimal compensation for AP. Someone can end up with no kills, no deaths, but seal the win for their team with quality healing. Important - this is especially important given my own experience with lack of healers in BGs. It's great to have healing medals, but that score is not reflected in AP, nor on the score of the game. Evidence - any warden or templar in deathmatch healing always is bottom of the team. '

4) Nightblades - And finally, why I stopped playing what I paid $40 for. Let me describe a class for yourself and you decide if this mode would be balanced with it: a class BUILT for insane burst damage. A class that can go invisible whenever it would like. A class that's BUILT to pair with the best gear in the game (ie Viper, etc). No other class has remotely close to the advantage that Nightblades have. There's a reason the last game I played had 7 NBs, 2 Dks, 2 Wardens and 1 sorc (me). The reason this is a problem is that there is zero counter play in BGs to Nightblade play style.

There are parts of this patch that are great in my opinion (i.e. Vvardenfell zone, Morrowind questline, I think warden provides interesting and relatively balanced healing). But if ZOS has any desire to create a lasting PvP community, then I think BGs need to be addressed as explained above.

If anyone at ZOS would like to provide responses/clarifications to points above, I would welcome that. Thank you!

Your so wrong at the nb part buddy. Ever played one? They are so freaking squishy they insta die very easy. Nb have in BGs the highest skill requirement and when they are good they get rewarded.
Yes these set a bs and should get removed but they are way way way way worse on stam sorcs and dks running heavy amor builds. These guys are super tanky and almost have the same burst. It gets even worse when they stack hp regen which nb on medium armor cant really do cause those builds are only realy viable on heavy armor due to the passives.
Dont get me even started on poisons on those builds 30 increase in cost in my ***! you have it on you and your first attack drains you to 0 having 35k stam in no Cp.

ChandraNalaar

casparian wrote: »

You make some great points, and well-argued. But I don't understand your identification of Nightblades as part of the problem with BGs. Do you have detect pots? Is your bar so stacked you can't afford space for Magelight or revealing flare? You've described some of NB's strengths pretty well, but you've left out the numerous hard counters to NBs that ZOS has already given you.

Calls for class nerfs should not be a part of calls for Battleground fixes.

Yeah the post was pretty well written up until the nightblade comment, in my opinion. I don't think there is zero counterplay to nightblades in battlegrounds, but I do think that procs need to be adjusted pretty heavily. I don't want to see nightblades nerfed even more than they already are because of more salt over cloak, because the class isn't the issue it's the gear sets.

wheem_ESO

Stamina Nightblades are quite powerful even without proc sets, but with them - utterly ridiculous. It's one of the most broken things I've ever seen in MMO PvP. Take the following that I just got hit with a little bit ago:
Ambush: 3,436
Viper: 2,857
Incap: 5,532
Selene: 5,952
Oblivion: 1,900

That's 19,677 damage in two button presses (meaning, one single second of real time), with the highest damage coming from a proc. That's also not even the hardest I've been hit by Incap or Selene's, there are numerous times that a single button press can result in 12-14k damage on light armor (and yea, I can wear heavy...as long as I don't mind never killing anything). It's so dumb, and really drains the fun out of the game.

It is impossible to balance classes as long as these proc sets remain anywhere remotely close to the status that they're at now. There's a possibility that some Stamina setups are actually underpowered and need buffs...but you'll never be able to tell as long as procs rule the roost. This needs to be fixed, posthaste.

Zer0oo

wheem_ESO wrote: »

Stamina Nightblades are quite powerful even without proc sets, but with them - utterly ridiculous. It's one of the most broken things I've ever seen in MMO PvP. Take the following that I just got hit with a little bit ago:
Ambush: 3,436
Viper: 2,857
Incap: 5,532
Selene: 5,952
Oblivion: 1,900

That's 19,677 damage in two button presses (meaning, one single second of real time), with the highest damage coming from a proc. That's also not even the hardest I've been hit by Incap or Selene's, there are numerous times that a single button press can result in 12-14k damage on light armor (and yea, I can wear heavy...as long as I don't mind never killing anything). It's so dumb, and really drains the fun out of the game.

It is impossible to balance classes as long as these proc sets remain anywhere remotely close to the status that they're at now. There's a possibility that some Stamina setups are actually underpowered and need buffs...but you'll never be able to tell as long as procs rule the roost. This needs to be fixed, posthaste.

You forgot the light attack with another ~1+k, the poison injection that is almost always on you and you are cced after that combo. Good luck recovering after that procing and if it fails(procs didn't go off at the same time) just dodge, roll cloak and try again