Battlegrounds feedback

Magus

I was actually able to participate in some battlegrounds the last couple of nights. Group queue works but I've yet to get a solo queue to ever pop for me. If you duo a queue though, be warned, you will likely end up in a 2v4v4 situation, the queue from my experience doesn't fill your team and just goes with your 2 as a team.

So let the salt commence.

Game modes:
Deathmatch - awesome, easily the best mode of the three. Everyone in TS cheers when they see this mode in the loading screen. Per DeathlyRecluse, agree with changing the scoring from killing blow only to giving points for killing blow + point to team that did the most damage to the target.

Domination - this one is only ok, would prefer to just have one flag though in the center and play it king of the hill style fighting over just one flag instead of having people running around, actively avoiding PVP to capture flags. The map with 4 flags is awful, way too big, way too easy to cloak around and wait for two groups to fight then scurry off and capture undefended flags. That's not PVP.

CTF - this one needs a change. There should be a small flag on the base that needs to flip first or a synergy, like a slightly faster scroll pickup animation for this one. Really just anything to make the flag pickup slowed down. This mode is terrible. It's WW and stamsorcs with immovable pots, sprinting with major and minor expedition that you can't stun or cc that just run up and are gone and LoSing in an instant later so even on a sorc you can't catch them.

Resource poisons are awful in BGs. They have no place in no CP PVP.

Stamblades are able to one shot you from stealth without any animations shown on your screen (from cloak). The counter to this is gone because they nerfed radiant magelight. I used to run this and still run this and it doesn't stop a stamblade with viper/selene to ambush one shot you from stealth still cloaked without any animations. GG ZOS, you tried to stop ganking but you took away the one counter to it and only empowered it more.

Last, the power sigil has to go. That's not PVP, that's a PVE thing. Compound that with the stamblade problem above and it's comical (8k viper procs). If you wanted to do a defensive sigil, fine. I'd prefer no sigils but the power sigil is not fun. Or make it a random sigil from VMA instead of always the power sigil. That would be better but still would rather see no sigils.

Well that's my initial impressions and opinion. Feel free to agree or disagree.


CTF Update - Good suggestion here is to only have one flag that spawns in the middle and play more like Hutta ball from SWTOR. Add a 2 second timer to pickup after an interaction (pressing E), add a 20 sec respawn after capture, and I like idea of no sprinting/mist form/cloak/streak from the carrier, make them immune to player snares/roots but add a 20% permanent snare to allows people to catch the carrier and actually make them have to fight and defend themselves instead of doing Sprint Vs Player.

DeadlyRecluse

Magus wrote: »

Game modes:
Deathmatch - awesome, easily the best mode of the three. Everyone in TS cheers when they see this mode in the loading screen.

As long as the scoring system only rewards KBs, I can't take deathmatch seriously.

Agreed on pretty much everything else--I haven't found stamblades to be that big of a problem, though.

Magus

DeadlyRecluse wrote: »

Magus wrote: »

Game modes:
Deathmatch - awesome, easily the best mode of the three. Everyone in TS cheers when they see this mode in the loading screen.

As long as the scoring system only rewards KBs, I can't take deathmatch seriously.

Agreed on pretty much everything else--I haven't found stamblades to be that big of a problem, though.

That's a good point, not sure how they would credit it otherwise though but yeah you'll want a sorc on your team for this. If two teams tag a player, how else would you score the kill?

DeadlyRecluse

Magus wrote: »

DeadlyRecluse wrote: »

Magus wrote: »

Game modes:
Deathmatch - awesome, easily the best mode of the three. Everyone in TS cheers when they see this mode in the loading screen.

As long as the scoring system only rewards KBs, I can't take deathmatch seriously.

Agreed on pretty much everything else--I haven't found stamblades to be that big of a problem, though.

That's a good point, not sure how they would credit it otherwise though but yeah you'll want a sorc on your team for this. If two teams tag a player, how else would you score the kill?

1 point for team that did the most damage to that player, 1 for killing blow.

Magus

DeadlyRecluse wrote: »

Magus wrote: »

DeadlyRecluse wrote: »

Magus wrote: »

Game modes:
Deathmatch - awesome, easily the best mode of the three. Everyone in TS cheers when they see this mode in the loading screen.

As long as the scoring system only rewards KBs, I can't take deathmatch seriously.

Agreed on pretty much everything else--I haven't found stamblades to be that big of a problem, though.

That's a good point, not sure how they would credit it otherwise though but yeah you'll want a sorc on your team for this. If two teams tag a player, how else would you score the kill?

1 point for team that did the most damage to that player, 1 for killing blow.

I'm on board with that change, signed.

DeadlyRecluse

Magus wrote: »

DeadlyRecluse wrote: »

Magus wrote: »

DeadlyRecluse wrote: »

Magus wrote: »

Game modes:
Deathmatch - awesome, easily the best mode of the three. Everyone in TS cheers when they see this mode in the loading screen.

As long as the scoring system only rewards KBs, I can't take deathmatch seriously.

Agreed on pretty much everything else--I haven't found stamblades to be that big of a problem, though.

That's a good point, not sure how they would credit it otherwise though but yeah you'll want a sorc on your team for this. If two teams tag a player, how else would you score the kill?

1 point for team that did the most damage to that player, 1 for killing blow.

I'm on board with that change, signed.

ALL ABOARD THE DEADLY TRAIN!

But seriously, other than that I think you are about right on. CTF is a mess, domination is usually good (and, at the moment, I think the most competitive), deathmatch is the most fun. Poisons need to go. Power sigil is a mistake--I kinda like the random sigil idea, haste sigil could be a blast.

Magus

Yeah I've had some close domination matches that were pretty fun. It's only less fun when people actively are avoiding you and seizing moments to capture undefended flags. I've had some really nice 1v1s on flags though in this mode.

I would love one big flag in the middle though where everyone goes to fight and it's just a slaughterfest with no power sigils and no environmental hazards. Just stand here if you dare, clump here for the negates and destros and get bombed by two teams at once while holding it.

CTF you can't even guard it if an orc runs up with rapids and an immov pot, they sprint through and are gone.

Mazbt

I only had my second day of battlegrounds last night and experience was positive. Group Queue worked mostly better than last week (1 member was left out of one battleground for w/e reason so that's a queue hiccup). death match is the best since that is straight up pvp and not running around getting flags. Spawn points are close and u can just go down into it again right away when you die.

Avaglaor

I agree with everything you said.

I dont really think that CTF can work with 3 teams on the map, maybe with premades only could be a bit more interesting but now it is a mess.

Artis

I agree that capture a flag and domination could be changed.

In particular, capture a flag becomes too complicated with 3 teams. Maybe we could have 1 flag to capture? I wish we could add 4v4 mode to just have to teams - that would fix it - but devs already said they like 3 teams.

Magus

Artis wrote: »

I agree that capture a flag and domination could be changed.

In particular, capture a flag becomes too complicated with 3 teams. Maybe we could have 1 flag to capture? I wish we could add 4v4 mode to just have to teams - that would fix it - but devs already said they like 3 teams.

I like the idea of one flag in the middle to capture. That reminds me of hutta ball in SWTOR. That would be much better.

Other ideas I have on that would be to prevent sprinting on the carrier. I would also make the flag carrier immune to snares/roots but give them a permanent 20% snare and be unable to sprint in addition to unable to streak/cloak. Makes it so people can catch and engage the carrier in actual PVP instead of Sprint vs player. And give it a 2 second pickup time, have it spawn in the center of the map just like in hutta ball and then remove the need to defend your flag because there's only one flag now. Add a 20 second timer after flag is captured before it spawns, so everyone can get back to center in time so one person doesn't just camp it and grab it right when it respawns. Objectives are nice but it should encourage PVP not running away from each other.

Takllin

CTF is dumb even with 3 organized teams. You can dominate and take both enemy flags but you're just going to get heal debuffed until the double team eventually kills you. Good luck getting your flag back 4v7 while the 1 guy with your flag just runs away. It's just another game mode that discourages pvp.

Magus

Takllin wrote: »

CTF is dumb even with 3 organized teams. You can dominate and take both enemy flags but you're just going to get heal debuffed until the double team eventually kills you. Good luck getting your flag back 4v7 while the 1 guy with your flag just runs away. It's just another game mode that discourages pvp.

Definitely a problem, added an update with suggestions on how to make the mode more fun and promote PVP.

Takllin

Magus wrote: »

Takllin wrote: »

CTF is dumb even with 3 organized teams. You can dominate and take both enemy flags but you're just going to get heal debuffed until the double team eventually kills you. Good luck getting your flag back 4v7 while the 1 guy with your flag just runs away. It's just another game mode that discourages pvp.

Definitely a problem, added an update with suggestions on how to make the mode more fun and promote PVP.

ZOS has 2 choices really. Either design the modes to encourage PvP, or do what WoW does and allow people to veto modes/maps from their pool. This was necessary in WoW because people don't like queuing into the maps that ended up just becoming PvE races.

Magus

Takllin wrote: »

Magus wrote: »

Takllin wrote: »

CTF is dumb even with 3 organized teams. You can dominate and take both enemy flags but you're just going to get heal debuffed until the double team eventually kills you. Good luck getting your flag back 4v7 while the 1 guy with your flag just runs away. It's just another game mode that discourages pvp.

Definitely a problem, added an update with suggestions on how to make the mode more fun and promote PVP.

ZOS has 2 choices really. Either design the modes to encourage PvP, or do what WoW does and allow people to veto modes/maps from their pool. This was necessary in WoW because people don't like queuing into the maps that ended up just becoming PvE races.

I agree with that. I like the lava map the most because it's so small, you can see everyone at any time.

Magus wrote: »

Artis wrote: »

I agree that capture a flag and domination could be changed.

In particular, capture a flag becomes too complicated with 3 teams. Maybe we could have 1 flag to capture? I wish we could add 4v4 mode to just have to teams - that would fix it - but devs already said they like 3 teams.

I like the idea of one flag in the middle to capture. That reminds me of hutta ball in SWTOR. That would be much better.

Other ideas I have on that would be to prevent sprinting on the carrier. I would also make the flag carrier immune to snares/roots but give them a permanent 20% snare and be unable to sprint in addition to unable to streak/cloak. Makes it so people can catch and engage the carrier in actual PVP instead of Sprint vs player. And give it a 2 second pickup time, have it spawn in the center of the map just like in hutta ball and then remove the need to defend your flag because there's only one flag now. Add a 20 second timer after flag is captured before it spawns, so everyone can get back to center in time so one person doesn't just camp it and grab it right when it respawns. Objectives are nice but it should encourage PVP not running away from each other.

What did you think of these ideas?

DisgracefulMind

I like all three of the game modes, but proc sets and poisons really need to go. Pretty dumb in there.

Edziu

Magus wrote: »

I
Stamblades are able to one shot you from stealth without any animations shown on your screen (from cloak). The counter to this is gone because they nerfed radiant magelight. I used to run this and still run this and it doesn't stop a stamblade with viper/selene to ambush one shot you from stealth still cloaked without any animations. GG ZOS, you tried to stop ganking but you took away the one counter to it and only empowered it more.

OMG.....when youa ll people will finally learn those proc sets are 1shoting you froms tealth...not only nb..nb 1shoting you froms tealth only thank to proc sets which are more powerful on noncp pvp.....

I playing as ganker but without any possible proc sets and trust me..this isnt that easy tham with proctard sets and this is very rarely when Im able to 1shot people..it only if they are arond 20k health and glass cannons like me without any thought about being attacked so without any possible defense active

you have problem with proc sets, not with nb 1shoting you....proc sets just finishing you after combo from stealth so assain no need to finish you because sets are doing this and thank those sets you have no way to even break free from stun

FearlessOne_2014

Edziu wrote: »

Magus wrote: »

I
Stamblades are able to one shot you from stealth without any animations shown on your screen (from cloak). The counter to this is gone because they nerfed radiant magelight. I used to run this and still run this and it doesn't stop a stamblade with viper/selene to ambush one shot you from stealth still cloaked without any animations. GG ZOS, you tried to stop ganking but you took away the one counter to it and only empowered it more.

OMG.....when youa ll people will finally learn those proc sets are 1shoting you froms tealth...not only nb..nb 1shoting you froms tealth only thank to proc sets which are more powerful on noncp pvp.....

I playing as ganker but without any possible proc sets and trust me..this isnt that easy tham with proctard sets and this is very rarely when Im able to 1shot people..it only if they are arond 20k health and glass cannons like me without any thought about being attacked so without any possible defense active

you have problem with proc sets, not with nb 1shoting you....proc sets just finishing you after combo from stealth so assain no need to finish you because sets are doing this and thank those sets you have no way to even break free from stun

Agreed!.

For the most part unless I'm on one of my stamina proctarded characters or grinding for Vigor and now Caltrops since they stack. I honestly just look at PvP in this game now, as another grind to get what I want. Between Proc Sets and Poisons, and BGs only being No CP.

Sorry but not sorry. I'll take my competitive PvP urges to Smite where I can get some high octane, adrenaline rushing matches. The choice to turn PVP into Non CP while leaving in Poisons and Proc Sets that gives free heals or damage, will more then likely turn Cyrodiil and BGs after that new car smell wears off. Into the desert of a population like GW2's WvW and PvP population crisis.

But hey I'm completely ok with that. As I say I at least have a out, for when I want some decent PvP. Either nerf proc sets and poisons in Non CP. Or give us the tools to defend ourselves against this nonsensical PvP joke. Or be prepare for your PvP only players to lose interest in this game.

Even now as it stands most players only come into Cyrodiil not because it's fun. But because they have to. If they want to compete on their PvE leader boards. With has much more integrity then the PvP leader boards.

There I left my two cents on this matter.

Sylphie

I think the problems around Domination and CTF stems from having 3 teams instead of 2. For starters, having 3 teams in
Domination encourages running as a 4 man group in order to rush down objectives since 1) flags cap faster with more people and 2) sticking as a 4 man group prevents the other 2 teams from 2v1ing members of your team that break off. This results in people just rotating around capture points.

Lets take a look at Guild Wars 2, which only had one mode for structured pvp for a number of years yet it still had an active pvp scene. Their domination pvp mode consisted of having only 2 teams of 5 players and 3 capture nodes. This lead to teams having to split up in order to contest these nodes, which resulted in either 1-4, 2-3 or 2-2-1 man splits. This also resulted in having dedicated roles in pvp such as bunkers (tanks that hold points), burst dps, support dps, backcappers, ect.

This doesn't happen in ESO since if one team tries to split up in order to contest nodes, they'll just be outnumbered by the other 2 teams.

The same thing occurs in CTF. If one team decides to leave 1-2 players behind to watch their flag, they'll just end up being outnumbered by the other 2 teams in both their offensive and defensive fights.

Witar

Bgs "worked" for one day - the day zos tried (and failed) to fix them. Now - this whole mess with que is back, half-empty teams fighting against full premades all that stuff. Interior design doesn't matter if you can't get inside for 30 minutes on saturday.

Magus

Sylphie wrote: »

I think the problems around Domination and CTF stems from having 3 teams instead of 2. For starters, having 3 teams in
Domination encourages running as a 4 man group in order to rush down objectives since 1) flags cap faster with more people and 2) sticking as a 4 man group prevents the other 2 teams from 2v1ing members of your team that break off. This results in people just rotating around capture points.

Lets take a look at Guild Wars 2, which only had one mode for structured pvp for a number of years yet it still had an active pvp scene. Their domination pvp mode consisted of having only 2 teams of 5 players and 3 capture nodes. This lead to teams having to split up in order to contest these nodes, which resulted in either 1-4, 2-3 or 2-2-1 man splits. This also resulted in having dedicated roles in pvp such as bunkers (tanks that hold points), burst dps, support dps, backcappers, ect.

This doesn't happen in ESO since if one team tries to split up in order to contest nodes, they'll just be outnumbered by the other 2 teams.

The same thing occurs in CTF. If one team decides to leave 1-2 players behind to watch their flag, they'll just end up being outnumbered by the other 2 teams in both their offensive and defensive fights.

I like the idea of 3 teams because if one team is dominating the other two can team up against them if they choose to. The problem then becomes like you describe, if there's too many objectives, teams can avoid each other and rotate around objectives instead of actually fighting.

Satiar

Just let me Q up for Deathmatches!

@Magus we needa do some BGs soon!