Which Ability Could I Put Here?

grim_tactics

Ok, so bored with the skills it seems I have to run to be competitive in PvP. I feel like it's been the same exact loadout for MagSorcs since year 1.

Front bar: Radiant Magelight, Crushin Shock, Mages Fury, Crystal Frags, Hardened Ward

Back bar: Streak, Power Surge, Destructive Reach, Curse, Anullment (or Harness)

I'm looking at what I can use to replace one of my back bar skills. I'm thinking of taking off Destructive Reach but I can not find another damage ability worth replacing it with.

I could use Elemental Drain but seems overkill when running my current set and I'd have to constantly focus on that 1 target while it's up.

Proxy Det is fun but as a Sorc the last thing my team wants me doing is bear hugging 10 people to get the most out of it then trying to run away.

I just don't know anything better to use in a PvP setting that is beneficial as DPS.

Besides, using streak negates the knock down on Reach due to the cool down of a streak through a group. I've used Boundless Storm over streak but again it is only beneficial from a boost in defense as I'm not trying to tank a Zerg for the damage Storm does.

I just want to switch up my playstyle but I just feel I'm pretty much having to keep these bars as is.

I obviously use overload on 1 bar but relying on it to turn on and off when I want on console is so iffy. Overload is notorious at getting stuck during big fights in PvP due to the lag on console.

Beardimus

Interesting setup, its closer to my PvE setup than my PvP i think

Q As a sorc why wouldn't you pick inevitable det over Proxy, if you want det at all that is.

Radiant will have less use after MW right?

Agreed on Overload being buggy as hell. Very annoying as its been my fave skill from day one

Benn G x

How do you heal without a resto and healing ward, that's probably your issue

Izaki

Benn G x wrote: »

How do you heal without a resto and healing ward, that's probably your issue

^ this

There's actually not too much flexibility in a mag sorc's PvP bars:

Frags, Curse, Force Pulse, Streak and all 3 shields are mandatory. Either Denegeration (Structured Entropy is ***) or Power Surge. That only leaves you with 2 bar slots and 2 ultimates. Usually, people use Endless Fury and Mines to fill up the missing slots. If you use Overload, you can slot mines there, which leaves you with 1 free slot that you can fill up with Inner Light or Dark Conversion.

grim_tactics

Benn G x wrote: »

How do you heal without a resto and healing ward, that's probably your issue

Sustaining health isn't an issue for me, especially running with groups and healing isn't an issue with Power Surge and using a Resto wastes DPS. I've tried it several times and I've never understood using a Resto on a DPS Sorc in PvP. Sacrifices even more damage for having to spam another shield and wastes resources and has too much down time when you can be attacking. With shields only lasting 6 seconds, casting harness, hardened Ward, then healing ward- leaves your shields with only 4 seconds left to then start dealing damage - then you have to do it all over again. Plus , with the damage I deal with power surge I'm only at risk of dying from running out of Stam to breaking CCs or running into 3-4 ppl just spamming me down and my pots are on cool down.

Beardimus wrote: »

Interesting setup, its closer to my PvE setup than my PvP i think

Q As a sorc why wouldn't you pick inevitable det over Proxy, if you want det at all that is.

Radiant will have less use after MW right?

Agreed on Overload being buggy as hell. Very annoying as its been my fave skill from day one

Proxy Det is really the only useful form of that skill at the moment. The other morph just isn't worth taking in is current state.

Radiant will still have its uses but more people might go inner light on Morrowind.

Curious why you would run what I've got there on PvE. No real AoEs to speak of as it's mostly single target burst DPS. Just curious.

For PvE Inner alight is better and you would want less shields (if any at all if you are running with a healer) and you'd add liquid lightning and Elemental blockade AoE for mobs and overall higher DPS.

Liquid Lightning and Blockade aren't viable in PvP because it doesn't really do enough damage before someone just steps 1 foot to the left or right to negate it.

grim_tactics

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

Benn G x wrote: »

How do you heal without a resto and healing ward, that's probably your issue

^ this

There's actually not too much flexibility in a mag sorc's PvP bars:

Frags, Curse, Force Pulse, Streak and all 3 shields are mandatory. Either Denegeration (Structured Entropy is ***) or Power Surge. That only leaves you with 2 bar slots and 2 ultimates. Usually, people use Endless Fury and Mines to fill up the missing slots. If you use Overload, you can slot mines there, which leaves you with 1 free slot that you can fill up with Inner Light or Dark Conversion.

Again, Healing Ward is a waste IMO. I think it was so prevalent in Deltia builds and other streamer builds but it really isn't needed. Pots, Power Surge, and a good group. Even in 1v1 I don't use it and don't suffer from it. It wastes too much resources relying on possibly casting 3 shields.

I have mines and dark conversion on overload but I don't like mines outside of dueling. Too many good players just avoid them. I thought about putting those on back bar but they just lack the utility and damage I was hoping for. Also, higher health targets just run straight through them and roll out, others just see big glowing things on the ground and avoid them.

Benn G x

grim_tactics wrote: »

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

Benn G x wrote: »

How do you heal without a resto and healing ward, that's probably your issue

^ this

There's actually not too much flexibility in a mag sorc's PvP bars:

Frags, Curse, Force Pulse, Streak and all 3 shields are mandatory. Either Denegeration (Structured Entropy is ***) or Power Surge. That only leaves you with 2 bar slots and 2 ultimates. Usually, people use Endless Fury and Mines to fill up the missing slots. If you use Overload, you can slot mines there, which leaves you with 1 free slot that you can fill up with Inner Light or Dark Conversion.

Again, Healing Ward is a waste IMO. I think it was so prevalent in Deltia builds and other streamer builds but it really isn't needed. Pots, Power Surge, and a good group. Even in 1v1 I don't use it and don't suffer from it. It wastes too much resources relying on possibly casting 3 shields.

I have mines and dark conversion on overload but I don't like mines outside of dueling. Too many good players just avoid them. I thought about putting those on back bar but they just lack the utility and damage I was hoping for. Also, higher health targets just run straight through them and roll out, others just see big glowing things on the ground and avoid them.

Firstly, the fact you think healing Ward is a waste speaks volumes about how bad your set up is, you may get away without running it in a good organised group where you can completely rely on a healer. That's not the case most of the time in cyrodil, you NEED a burst heal it's just basic survival if you're shielding with low health and have no way to fill your bar, chances are you're dead any overflow damage will kill you, and you'll just be executed.

Potions ain't enough to fill your health so I call BS on that, and if you have no heal in a 1v1 you're going to die unless you're fighting a dribbler. 1v1 any decent player and you'd get dealt with, I'd be interested to see some clips of you in action with no heals cause you're bound to disagree with what I'm saying.

It doesn't waste resources it keeps you alive, and I very rarely run out of magicka using all 3 shields, normally it's because I've been hit with a increase cost poison or on a really long fight with a MagDK.

Mines are essential, your not supposed to drop them in the middle of a field and expect people to stand on them, mines can be used very effectively if you know how to use them, there's some spots where you can get 4-5 of the mines to land ontop of each other and that's gg for whoever stands on it.

You keep speaking of DPS in terms of PvP, it's totally irrelevant DPS don't mean ***, PvP is about managing your resources, knowing how to stay alive and BURST not DPS.

/Thread

grim_tactics

Benn G x wrote: »

grim_tactics wrote: »

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

Benn G x wrote: »

How do you heal without a resto and healing ward, that's probably your issue

^ this

There's actually not too much flexibility in a mag sorc's PvP bars:

Frags, Curse, Force Pulse, Streak and all 3 shields are mandatory. Either Denegeration (Structured Entropy is ***) or Power Surge. That only leaves you with 2 bar slots and 2 ultimates. Usually, people use Endless Fury and Mines to fill up the missing slots. If you use Overload, you can slot mines there, which leaves you with 1 free slot that you can fill up with Inner Light or Dark Conversion.

Again, Healing Ward is a waste IMO. I think it was so prevalent in Deltia builds and other streamer builds but it really isn't needed. Pots, Power Surge, and a good group. Even in 1v1 I don't use it and don't suffer from it. It wastes too much resources relying on possibly casting 3 shields.

I have mines and dark conversion on overload but I don't like mines outside of dueling. Too many good players just avoid them. I thought about putting those on back bar but they just lack the utility and damage I was hoping for. Also, higher health targets just run straight through them and roll out, others just see big glowing things on the ground and avoid them.

Firstly, the fact you think healing Ward is a waste speaks volumes about how bad your set up is, you may get away without running it in a good organised group where you can completely rely on a healer. That's not the case most of the time in cyrodil, you NEED a burst heal it's just basic survival if you're shielding with low health and have no way to fill your bar, chances are you're dead any overflow damage will kill you, and you'll just be executed.

Potions ain't enough to fill your health so I call BS on that, and if you have no heal in a 1v1 you're going to die unless you're fighting a dribbler. 1v1 any decent player and you'd get dealt with, I'd be interested to see some clips of you in action with no heals cause you're bound to disagree with what I'm saying.

It doesn't waste resources it keeps you alive, and I very rarely run out of magicka using all 3 shields, normally it's because I've been hit with a increase cost poison or on a really long fight with a MagDK.

Mines are essential, your not supposed to drop them in the middle of a field and expect people to stand on them, mines can be used very effectively if you know how to use them, there's some spots where you can get 4-5 of the mines to land ontop of each other and that's gg for whoever stands on it.

You keep speaking of DPS in terms of PvP, it's totally irrelevant DPS don't mean ***, PvP is about managing your resources, knowing how to stay alive and BURST not DPS.

/Thread

You don't even know my build other than the slotted skills.

The fact you think you need Healing Ward shows how bad you are. See, I can assume you're trash too.

Power Surge does more than enough with pots if you know how to handle yourself in PvP, and yes - Healing Ward is a waste to me.

I've ran it, several times, because that was what people were posting on build forums, but when you actually know what you are doing and seeing the wastes slots and loss of damage with increased resource drain - it's just a crutch for those who need it, nothing more.

You're basically saying that you run, what, only 4 attack slot skills not counting on Overload? That's terrible for PvP. How do you kill anything?

Trust me, I handle myself just fine in PvP (both Cyrodiil and Duels without it).

DPS does matter in PvP - what do you think "burst damage" is?

Play how you want, but saying that whatever I'm running is trash just because it doesn't match your build is the most ridiculous thing I've heard.

Daedric Mines, when used properly, still don't do enough when most people know what they are doing. Saying stack them with other peoples though is not something I'm going to try and do when a fight is going on. "Hey, whose dropping mines? Ok, let me perfectly drop mine too on yours - hold on, stay where you are."

The point of this thread was asking if Destructive Reach has a useable damage replacement - not arguing about who likes using Healing Ward and a Resto Staff.

Again, it is a waste of slots and resources with loss in overall damage dealt. Against good players, you don't have a chance other than just hoping you run away cause you aren't doing enough damage to kill most intelligent PvP players. It's like the infinite sustain DKs that don't die unless 7 people are burning them. Awesome if that's what you like doing, but those builds don't kill many people because it focuses too much on sustain and not enough actually being able to kill people. You're more of a distraction than anything else.

Benn G x

The fact you think I mean stacking my mines with someone else's made me lol, cba to explain.

DPS - Damage per second
Burst - a lot of damage in less than a second that isn't consistent damage.

The damage abilities I use are frags, curse scamp and fury that's it (well an ultimate and mines on overload too) I'd give you 100k if you could survive my burst.

I didn't say your builds trash because it doesn't mirror mine... you're crazy. I said it's bad because you don't have a burst heal. Like I said I'd be interested in some clips of running without it, proof is in the pudding.

As for replacing destro reach, it's only worth slotting on a magblade for the 8% damage passive if you're using swallow Soul and soul tether as you need a destro ability slotted. For a sorc it's a waste, the DoT is crap and you already have frags and streak to CC

grim_tactics

Benn G x wrote: »

The fact you think I mean stacking my mines with someone else's made me lol, cba to explain.

DPS - Damage per second
Burst - a lot of damage in less than a second that isn't consistent damage.

The damage abilities I use are frags, curse scamp and fury that's it (well an ultimate and mines on overload too) I'd give you 100k if you could survive my burst.

Pet Sorc?

As toxic as Pet Sorcs are if you're on PS4 I will gladly take you up on that 100k offer in a heartbeat and you only get 1 pet (Scamp).

Also DPS = Damage Per Second .. yes? So your burst rotation takes longer than a second so ........ yeah, what you are doing is also known as DPS.

Benn G x

grim_tactics wrote: »

Benn G x wrote: »

The fact you think I mean stacking my mines with someone else's made me lol, cba to explain.

DPS - Damage per second
Burst - a lot of damage in less than a second that isn't consistent damage.

The damage abilities I use are frags, curse scamp and fury that's it (well an ultimate and mines on overload too) I'd give you 100k if you could survive my burst.

Pet Sorc?

As toxic as Pet Sorcs are if you're on PS4 I will gladly take you up on that 100k offer in a heartbeat and you only get 1 pet.

Also DPS = Damage Per Second .. yes? So your burst rotation takes longer than a second so ........ yeah, what you are doing is also known as DPS.

I ran DW petsorc before they got buffed with homestead, been using it since 1T. I only use 1 pet anyway. Unfortunately I'm on Xbox One, but I'm still waiting for some clips! DPS is the average of your damage per second over the whole fight, since players can heal (maybe not you) saying you have 40k DPS or whatever is irrelevant. why are you trying to argue with me lol.

Jitterbug

Good discussion. Or it would be if you would stop bickering...

grim_tactics

Benn G x wrote: »

grim_tactics wrote: »

Benn G x wrote: »

The fact you think I mean stacking my mines with someone else's made me lol, cba to explain.

DPS - Damage per second
Burst - a lot of damage in less than a second that isn't consistent damage.

The damage abilities I use are frags, curse scamp and fury that's it (well an ultimate and mines on overload too) I'd give you 100k if you could survive my burst.

Pet Sorc?

As toxic as Pet Sorcs are if you're on PS4 I will gladly take you up on that 100k offer in a heartbeat and you only get 1 pet.

Also DPS = Damage Per Second .. yes? So your burst rotation takes longer than a second so ........ yeah, what you are doing is also known as DPS.

I ran DW petsorc before they got buffed with homestead, been using it since 1T. I only use 1 pet anyway. Unfortunately I'm on Xbox One, but I'm still waiting for some clips! DPS is the average of your damage per second over the whole fight, since players can heal (maybe not you) saying you have 40k DPS or whatever is irrelevant. why are you trying to argue with me lol.

You're the one who came in with your know-it-all attitude and didn't even answer the original question.

Instead you wanted a pissing contest.

DPS and burst go hand in hand man, the fact you view it as only an average over a whole fight - whatever - doesn't matter. You're talking about an average DPS over different amount of times. Purely speaking, DPS is pretty self explanatory.

That 100k would be easy seeing as you're on Xbox and can't follow up with the challenge - here's how it would go.

Defensive Rune on your pet and it's CC'd forever, sustaining the remaining tiny damage you would do would be very easy as you'd be too busy casting shields when not CC'd with which I could burn down with 500 Ult charged Overload until you run out of resources and melt or just keep hitting you until it gets to 100 then Soul assualt. Could also do the same but use Meteor and Cc you at the same time and continue making you waste resources without your scamp able to do anything.

Keep using channels on you proc'ing Skoria at the same time.

That's why you have to use Healing Ward is because you don't do enough damage when your pet is out and don't have enough damage dealing abilities to finish so you have to have the extra sustain. I don't have that issue.

grim_tactics

Jitterbug wrote: »

Good discussion. Or it would be if you would stop bickering...

Happens most times unfortunately.

Simple question about what would you slot here and turns into a "you're trash if you aren't using blah blah blah." Or "God that's a terrible set up, get gud," from people who think there's only one way to play the game because they heard some streamer say it.

I don't think but 1 person even answered the question anyway.

There's always one, but I was stating what a waste it is for me to slot something I see as useless as I don't need it.

Waffennacht

Let me first say, it's very common to say "dps" as slang just for damage in whatever context it's being used in.

"Dps" as DMG per sec is only really specifically used in reference to PvE and will usually have said numbers in that sentence.

I'm guilty of using "dps" in this manner as well.

Next: healing ward/resto is only mandatory in solo PvP or PuGs, I'm. In organized play it can be used for specific means but isn't necessary.

Now your situation is exactly why I find m Sorc to be pigeonholed, a very limited amount of abilities to choose from. I unfortunately don't have too many suggestions, maybe spell Symmetry as you run with a healer?

Benn G x

grim_tactics wrote: »

Jitterbug wrote: »

Good discussion. Or it would be if you would stop bickering...

Happens most times unfortunately.

Simple question about what would you slot here and turns into a "you're trash if you aren't using blah blah blah." Or "God that's a terrible set up, get gud," from people who think there's only one way to play the game because they heard some streamer say it.

I don't think but 1 person even answered the question anyway.

There's always one, but I was stating what a waste it is for me to slot something I see as useless as I don't need it.

I didn't tell you to get gud lol? You just making *** up now. Don't watch streamers my builds are my own. I did answer the original question also. Learn2Read

And tiny damage I would do? Hahahahahahahaha

grim_tactics

Benn G x wrote: »

grim_tactics wrote: »

Jitterbug wrote: »

Good discussion. Or it would be if you would stop bickering...

Happens most times unfortunately.

Simple question about what would you slot here and turns into a "you're trash if you aren't using blah blah blah." Or "God that's a terrible set up, get gud," from people who think there's only one way to play the game because they heard some streamer say it.

I don't think but 1 person even answered the question anyway.

There's always one, but I was stating what a waste it is for me to slot something I see as useless as I don't need it.

I didn't tell you to get gud lol? You just making *** up now. Don't watch streamers my builds are my own. I did answer the original question also. Learn2Read

And tiny damage I would do? Hahahahahahahaha

Didn't say you did - I'm talking about in general on this forum. Calm down.

My friend has a Pet Sorc with higher Magicka pool than that and same stats. Once you Negate the pets or CC the scamp - you're stuck in defense mode. Immovability pots so no knockdown from frags - shields up - burn. Resistances are terrible. Really, it would be an easy 100k.

I'm done with you anyway. You didn't answer the question, you just said it's a waste unless you're a MagBlade. You offered no input on what you would slot and unfortunately I came down to your level of pettiness. You offered nothing of significance to this thread.

grim_tactics

Waffennacht wrote: »

Let me first say, it's very common to say "dps" as slang just for damage in whatever context it's being used in.

"Dps" as DMG per sec is only really specifically used in reference to PvE and will usually have said numbers in that sentence.

I'm guilty of using "dps" in this manner as well.

Next: healing ward/resto is only mandatory in solo PvP or PuGs, I'm. In organized play it can be used for specific means but isn't necessary.

Now your situation is exactly why I find m Sorc to be pigeonholed, a very limited amount of abilities to choose from. I unfortunately don't have too many suggestions, maybe spell Symmetry as you run with a healer?

Was wondering about Entropy possibly. Looking more for just a damage replacement.

Problem with MagSorcs - using the same skills since day 1 gets boring.

Might fool around with some different skills I guess - maybe this is the only one worth slotting and I'm stuck with Destructive Reach. Not that it's a bad skill, it's great for annoying people and knocking them off keeps, the DoT procs Skoria, and the damage isn't as bad as some think from a rotation standpoint.

Biro123

I know you already mentioned them, but if I n a group, why not proxy? Timed with the rest of your group, and timed with your curse and ulti's can make a good old mess of things. Or is it a small group?, in which case if go boundless storm, not for the defence, but for the mobility.

grim_tactics

Biro123 wrote: »

I know you already mentioned them, but if I n a group, why not proxy? Timed with the rest of your group, and timed with your curse and ulti's can make a good old mess of things. Or is it a small group?, in which case if go boundless storm, not for the defence, but for the mobility.

I could run Boundless Storm there and have been thinking about it. I use to run Boundless on back bar and Streak on Overload bar but found that Overload gets really buggy so I just changed it up so I have my gap closer and a retreat option already on hand instead relying on Overload to work like it should.

Proxy is a lot of fun against Zergs but I hate having to be in the middle of the action for full effect and then get out hoping I'm not CC'd to death before I can. Timing Proxy with Destro Ult or Meteor is a lot of fun.

might mess around with having Boundless and Streak on same bar.

Ghettokid

Active ability