Required "Skills" for Competitive Group Play

SneaK

Eye of Flame
Negate
Healbot

Well now that's in the open, don't you think these should be looked at????

Drakkdjinn

They're not so bad without root/snare/immobilze spam; that's the main issue imo.

SneaK

Drakkdjinn wrote: »

They're not so bad without root/snare/immobilze spam; that's the main issue imo.

Agree that Immobilizes makes the bombs that much worse, but the point here is there really shouldn't be specific abilities *required to be competitive in large scale play. For me, the Destro/Negate playstyle is the dullest form of combat I've ever participated in..

Proximity Mines on Complex for the 10,000th time is more appealing than taking a keep in ESO.

Sanct16

Nerfing negate and destro will make organised groups stronger.

kuro-dono

when gabclosing with any sort of ability> any other abilities/procs wont follow you. that would be awesome nerf.

Kas

imho:

more important than anything else: good lead
necessary without replacement: rapid, purge, springs, negate to counter other negates
very strong but can be replaced: eye of the storm, offensive negates
highly useful but not necessary: encase, talons, BoL, mistform, repentance

Joy_Division

Sanct16 wrote: »

Nerfing negate and destro will make organised groups stronger.

Perhaps. But it would make gameplay more interesting.

SneaK

Sanct16 wrote: »

Nerfing negate and destro will make organised groups stronger.

I dunno. If you are saying that because organized groups will just time their ults better than pugs then I'd have to disagree on that making them stronger. I think they'd still be strong yes, but it'd be a better dynamic to fight than the Negate/Destro fights. IMO, the problem with the combo is it only really requires a few good DPS to be in the group, then everyone else is spec'd as healbots and Negate/utility which makes the fights extremely dull. If the 4 bombers didn't wipe out the entire population then just ball back up spam heals and wait for them to get more destros. It's stupid. At least prior to the destro era, groups would have to trade off more with damage/healing/utility. Nowadays it's just too easy to have it all as long as you have some good bombers and at least 1 negate build in the group.

SneaK

Kas wrote: »

imho:

more important than anything else: good lead
necessary without replacement: rapid, purge, springs, negate to counter other negates
very strong but can be replaced: eye of the storm, offensive negates
highly useful but not necessary: encase, talons, BoL, mistform, repentance

I agree a good lead will make or break you. (Not to offend) But with the current "meta" as long as you have destros and negates in your group, complexity of leading isn't on the same tier as it once was. I run with some of the best crowns on my platform, and they've done some really gross stuff without much. That said, I've also seen a lot of people come out of the woodwork since this wombo combo came about and have made a name for themselves. IMO, those same people would have never been successful without Destros/Negates. They couldn't have (and didn't) successfully lead back when it was a game being highly mobile running Batmobiles from one side of Cyro to the other. ie. Eye of the Storm, Negates: More important than anything else. And it's a shame.

Kas

SneaK wrote: »

Kas wrote: »

imho:

more important than anything else: good lead
necessary without replacement: rapid, purge, springs, negate to counter other negates
very strong but can be replaced: eye of the storm, offensive negates
highly useful but not necessary: encase, talons, BoL, mistform, repentance

I agree a good lead will make or break you. (Not to offend) But with the current "meta" as long as you have destros and negates in your group, complexity of leading isn't on the same tier as it once was. I run with some of the best crowns on my platform, and they've done some really gross stuff without much. That said, I've also seen a lot of people come out of the woodwork since this wombo combo came about and have made a name for themselves. IMO, those same people would have never been successful without Destros/Negates. They couldn't have (and didn't) successfully lead back when it was a game being highly mobile running Batmobiles from one side of Cyro to the other. ie. Eye of the Storm, Negates: More important than anything else. And it's a shame.

tbh i don't think 1.4 was all that different. clouding swarm and eots and stack negates instead of waiting for counters. same basic thing. 1.6 has been worse (just spam steel tornado). i really liked when it was all about proxy timings. see your enemy launch theirs, move away and time impact perfectly for yours, if the enemy won't let you, keep detos recasted until the enemy loses track, etc etc. but that was a relatively small window overall.

i agree that it's sad that eots makes anything work. but we've had that before.

SneaK

Kas wrote: »

SneaK wrote: »

Kas wrote: »

imho:

more important than anything else: good lead
necessary without replacement: rapid, purge, springs, negate to counter other negates
very strong but can be replaced: eye of the storm, offensive negates
highly useful but not necessary: encase, talons, BoL, mistform, repentance

I agree a good lead will make or break you. (Not to offend) But with the current "meta" as long as you have destros and negates in your group, complexity of leading isn't on the same tier as it once was. I run with some of the best crowns on my platform, and they've done some really gross stuff without much. That said, I've also seen a lot of people come out of the woodwork since this wombo combo came about and have made a name for themselves. IMO, those same people would have never been successful without Destros/Negates. They couldn't have (and didn't) successfully lead back when it was a game being highly mobile running Batmobiles from one side of Cyro to the other. ie. Eye of the Storm, Negates: More important than anything else. And it's a shame.

tbh i don't think 1.4 was all that different. clouding swarm and eots and stack negates instead of waiting for counters. same basic thing. 1.6 has been worse (just spam steel tornado). i really liked when it was all about proxy timings. see your enemy launch theirs, move away and time impact perfectly for yours, if the enemy won't let you, keep detos recasted until the enemy loses track, etc etc. but that was a relatively small window overall.

i agree that it's sad that eots makes anything work. but we've had that before.

Yea, but at the same time I don't think anything in the past compares to EotS when it comes to damage output. (IMO, the radius of EotS is what makes it so bad.) I think there was more trade-off in group composition back then and one ulti didn't cover an entire keep floor. I agree with what you're saying, it's a pick your poison type of thing, just think what we are currently playing with is beyond what we've seen before.

tonemd

Doesn't help when people take the invisibility morph of Eye and Negate.Rolling through this crap is survivable if you know its there.

Performance issues make this tactic more powerful than it should be.