To Everyone Claiming Stam DKs Are So OP

Durham

FlyLionel wrote: »

Durham wrote: »

FlyLionel wrote: »

Within the class they have major mending/brutality for the whole group/one shot heal(yes a one shot in pve)/built in tank passives/the best dots/major armour debuff and burst ultimate/sustain dps boost aoe reducing damage(standard)/unkillable and not caring about whatever resistance you have(Corrosive). Don't stam dk have the highest single target parse in PVE for dps? If not I know it is the best stamina class for dps, also bis for tanking.

I am curious, are you having sustain issues on live at the moment? If so I think you should hop off no CP campaign and learn to spam igneous time to time...just messing with you. For pvp major mending IS a game changer and if we speak in terms of meta with heavy armour stam DK is the whole party package(Have you seen stam dk's fight the so called best class in the game mag sorc? I don't think I've ever seen one lose in a long time). Now if you are talking about Morrowind many adjustments are needed because Zos does not look like they are changing jack, than again who said DK was OP next patch? I don't think they are OP just the best overall class balance wise(sustain/damage/survivability/burst/utility). I see why others think they are though. With that being said, buff nightblades lol..

Ingenous is 900 stamina on test .... can t spam it can only cast this 4500 cost spell 2 times ... keep in mind you armor spell is magicka also it's expensive also...

4500 magicka for 900 stamina is not logical when you have only 14k to 16kmagicka... and you have to also utilize another magicka spell...

@Durham I'm speaking not in universal terms but just tanking(what I main now). We spam igneous to get our stam back up when in dire need(tanking 6 mini bosses on the last round of VDSA with no healer). Even since a while ago 2h/bow igneous spam was a thing...I'm confused; so you're saying it's not logical to spam igneous when out of stamina as a stamina character? Alright.

@Vapirko I agree, they won't be dead next patch though; it'll just take more skill now to use(CC or igneous dodgeroll into vigor/rally).

You did not read...This is the test server ...Helping hands .. it's been over nerfed... so now it's of little use to spam... in fact you can't do it costs to much and the amount of stamina is only 900 not 2.5k ... igneous is trash on the test server at the moment... your looking at less the half the return you get on live... with all your stam abilities costing 10 to 15% more... vigor 45 to 50% more ... you received 9 total nerfs as the stam DK meta ...

mirog

Stam dk on live is not op...however, any class running cheese can be op, not sure why people are singling out Stam dk.

FlyLionel

Durham wrote: »

FlyLionel wrote: »

Durham wrote: »

FlyLionel wrote: »

Within the class they have major mending/brutality for the whole group/one shot heal(yes a one shot in pve)/built in tank passives/the best dots/major armour debuff and burst ultimate/sustain dps boost aoe reducing damage(standard)/unkillable and not caring about whatever resistance you have(Corrosive). Don't stam dk have the highest single target parse in PVE for dps? If not I know it is the best stamina class for dps, also bis for tanking.

I am curious, are you having sustain issues on live at the moment? If so I think you should hop off no CP campaign and learn to spam igneous time to time...just messing with you. For pvp major mending IS a game changer and if we speak in terms of meta with heavy armour stam DK is the whole party package(Have you seen stam dk's fight the so called best class in the game mag sorc? I don't think I've ever seen one lose in a long time). Now if you are talking about Morrowind many adjustments are needed because Zos does not look like they are changing jack, than again who said DK was OP next patch? I don't think they are OP just the best overall class balance wise(sustain/damage/survivability/burst/utility). I see why others think they are though. With that being said, buff nightblades lol..

Ingenous is 900 stamina on test .... can t spam it can only cast this 4500 cost spell 2 times ... keep in mind you armor spell is magicka also it's expensive also...

4500 magicka for 900 stamina is not logical when you have only 14k to 16kmagicka... and you have to also utilize another magicka spell...

@Durham I'm speaking not in universal terms but just tanking(what I main now). We spam igneous to get our stam back up when in dire need(tanking 6 mini bosses on the last round of VDSA with no healer). Even since a while ago 2h/bow igneous spam was a thing...I'm confused; so you're saying it's not logical to spam igneous when out of stamina as a stamina character? Alright.

@Vapirko I agree, they won't be dead next patch though; it'll just take more skill now to use(CC or igneous dodgeroll into vigor/rally).

You did not read...This is the test server ...Helping hands .. it's been over nerfed... so now it's of little use to spam... in fact you can't do it costs to much and the amount of stamina is only 900 not 2.5k ... igneous is trash on the test server at the moment... your looking at less the half the return you get on live... with all your stam abilities costing 10 to 15% more... vigor 45 to 50% more ... you received 9 total nerfs as the stam DK meta ...

The OP and I were talking about LIVE--->absolutely no one ever said DK was OP on PTS? And I have read it, it sucks but we'll adjust. But yeah from 2.5k to 900, literally useless smh.

Edit: This will be a buff if you're a mag DK.

Durham

FlyLionel wrote: »

Durham wrote: »

FlyLionel wrote: »

Durham wrote: »

FlyLionel wrote: »

Within the class they have major mending/brutality for the whole group/one shot heal(yes a one shot in pve)/built in tank passives/the best dots/major armour debuff and burst ultimate/sustain dps boost aoe reducing damage(standard)/unkillable and not caring about whatever resistance you have(Corrosive). Don't stam dk have the highest single target parse in PVE for dps? If not I know it is the best stamina class for dps, also bis for tanking.

I am curious, are you having sustain issues on live at the moment? If so I think you should hop off no CP campaign and learn to spam igneous time to time...just messing with you. For pvp major mending IS a game changer and if we speak in terms of meta with heavy armour stam DK is the whole party package(Have you seen stam dk's fight the so called best class in the game mag sorc? I don't think I've ever seen one lose in a long time). Now if you are talking about Morrowind many adjustments are needed because Zos does not look like they are changing jack, than again who said DK was OP next patch? I don't think they are OP just the best overall class balance wise(sustain/damage/survivability/burst/utility). I see why others think they are though. With that being said, buff nightblades lol..

Ingenous is 900 stamina on test .... can t spam it can only cast this 4500 cost spell 2 times ... keep in mind you armor spell is magicka also it's expensive also...

4500 magicka for 900 stamina is not logical when you have only 14k to 16kmagicka... and you have to also utilize another magicka spell...

@Durham I'm speaking not in universal terms but just tanking(what I main now). We spam igneous to get our stam back up when in dire need(tanking 6 mini bosses on the last round of VDSA with no healer). Even since a while ago 2h/bow igneous spam was a thing...I'm confused; so you're saying it's not logical to spam igneous when out of stamina as a stamina character? Alright.

@Vapirko I agree, they won't be dead next patch though; it'll just take more skill now to use(CC or igneous dodgeroll into vigor/rally).

You did not read...This is the test server ...Helping hands .. it's been over nerfed... so now it's of little use to spam... in fact you can't do it costs to much and the amount of stamina is only 900 not 2.5k ... igneous is trash on the test server at the moment... your looking at less the half the return you get on live... with all your stam abilities costing 10 to 15% more... vigor 45 to 50% more ... you received 9 total nerfs as the stam DK meta ...

The OP and I were talking about LIVE--->absolutely no one ever said DK was OP on PTS? And I have read it, it sucks but we'll adjust. But yeah from 2.5k to 900, literally useless smh.

Edit: This will be a buff if you're a mag DK.

Its bad on test ... if you sword shield atm a sorc is a better choice for PVP... If your two handed/ bow I would go sorc then stam templar ... I like the aoe, snare, free purge, and minor mending on temp better then the DK passives atm..

FlyLionel

Durham wrote: »

FlyLionel wrote: »

Durham wrote: »

FlyLionel wrote: »

Durham wrote: »

FlyLionel wrote: »

Within the class they have major mending/brutality for the whole group/one shot heal(yes a one shot in pve)/built in tank passives/the best dots/major armour debuff and burst ultimate/sustain dps boost aoe reducing damage(standard)/unkillable and not caring about whatever resistance you have(Corrosive). Don't stam dk have the highest single target parse in PVE for dps? If not I know it is the best stamina class for dps, also bis for tanking.

I am curious, are you having sustain issues on live at the moment? If so I think you should hop off no CP campaign and learn to spam igneous time to time...just messing with you. For pvp major mending IS a game changer and if we speak in terms of meta with heavy armour stam DK is the whole party package(Have you seen stam dk's fight the so called best class in the game mag sorc? I don't think I've ever seen one lose in a long time). Now if you are talking about Morrowind many adjustments are needed because Zos does not look like they are changing jack, than again who said DK was OP next patch? I don't think they are OP just the best overall class balance wise(sustain/damage/survivability/burst/utility). I see why others think they are though. With that being said, buff nightblades lol..

Ingenous is 900 stamina on test .... can t spam it can only cast this 4500 cost spell 2 times ... keep in mind you armor spell is magicka also it's expensive also...

4500 magicka for 900 stamina is not logical when you have only 14k to 16kmagicka... and you have to also utilize another magicka spell...

@Durham I'm speaking not in universal terms but just tanking(what I main now). We spam igneous to get our stam back up when in dire need(tanking 6 mini bosses on the last round of VDSA with no healer). Even since a while ago 2h/bow igneous spam was a thing...I'm confused; so you're saying it's not logical to spam igneous when out of stamina as a stamina character? Alright.

@Vapirko I agree, they won't be dead next patch though; it'll just take more skill now to use(CC or igneous dodgeroll into vigor/rally).

You did not read...This is the test server ...Helping hands .. it's been over nerfed... so now it's of little use to spam... in fact you can't do it costs to much and the amount of stamina is only 900 not 2.5k ... igneous is trash on the test server at the moment... your looking at less the half the return you get on live... with all your stam abilities costing 10 to 15% more... vigor 45 to 50% more ... you received 9 total nerfs as the stam DK meta ...

The OP and I were talking about LIVE--->absolutely no one ever said DK was OP on PTS? And I have read it, it sucks but we'll adjust. But yeah from 2.5k to 900, literally useless smh.

Edit: This will be a buff if you're a mag DK.

Its bad on test ... if you sword shield atm a sorc is a better choice for PVP... If your two handed/ bow I would go sorc then stam templar ... I like the aoe, snare, free purge, and minor mending on temp better then the DK passives atm..

Yeah dark deal just surpassed every skill in the book, and stam temps purge instead of having to hit shuffle again will help most definitively next patch. That being said I'm up for the challenge next patch with 2h/bow stam dk in medium...heavy if I can sustain but doubt it, engine guardian on stam dk throw back build..kinda hyped for no reason..

NBrookus

FlyLionel wrote: »

Durham wrote: »

FlyLionel wrote: »

Durham wrote: »

FlyLionel wrote: »

Within the class they have major mending/brutality for the whole group/one shot heal(yes a one shot in pve)/built in tank passives/the best dots/major armour debuff and burst ultimate/sustain dps boost aoe reducing damage(standard)/unkillable and not caring about whatever resistance you have(Corrosive). Don't stam dk have the highest single target parse in PVE for dps? If not I know it is the best stamina class for dps, also bis for tanking.

I am curious, are you having sustain issues on live at the moment? If so I think you should hop off no CP campaign and learn to spam igneous time to time...just messing with you. For pvp major mending IS a game changer and if we speak in terms of meta with heavy armour stam DK is the whole party package(Have you seen stam dk's fight the so called best class in the game mag sorc? I don't think I've ever seen one lose in a long time). Now if you are talking about Morrowind many adjustments are needed because Zos does not look like they are changing jack, than again who said DK was OP next patch? I don't think they are OP just the best overall class balance wise(sustain/damage/survivability/burst/utility). I see why others think they are though. With that being said, buff nightblades lol..

Ingenous is 900 stamina on test .... can t spam it can only cast this 4500 cost spell 2 times ... keep in mind you armor spell is magicka also it's expensive also...

4500 magicka for 900 stamina is not logical when you have only 14k to 16kmagicka... and you have to also utilize another magicka spell...

@Durham I'm speaking not in universal terms but just tanking(what I main now). We spam igneous to get our stam back up when in dire need(tanking 6 mini bosses on the last round of VDSA with no healer). Even since a while ago 2h/bow igneous spam was a thing...I'm confused; so you're saying it's not logical to spam igneous when out of stamina as a stamina character? Alright.

@Vapirko I agree, they won't be dead next patch though; it'll just take more skill now to use(CC or igneous dodgeroll into vigor/rally).

You did not read...This is the test server ...Helping hands .. it's been over nerfed... so now it's of little use to spam... in fact you can't do it costs to much and the amount of stamina is only 900 not 2.5k ... igneous is trash on the test server at the moment... your looking at less the half the return you get on live... with all your stam abilities costing 10 to 15% more... vigor 45 to 50% more ... you received 9 total nerfs as the stam DK meta ...

The OP and I were talking about LIVE--->absolutely no one ever said DK was OP on PTS? And I have read it, it sucks but we'll adjust. But yeah from 2.5k to 900, literally useless smh.

Edit: This will be a buff if you're a mag DK.

... who didn't need the extra stam, but will get shafted just as hard on our main resource by the utterly unnecessary Battle Roar nerf that WAS the defining class passive that made the DK playstyle work. Maybe I can run witchmothers/blue food instead, or maybe it helps make up for the stam we won't get elsewhere/spend on blocking... but I doubt it. There's no point in theorycrafting too much until we see if they revise these changes some.

If it is helpful, I'll just use another ability from Earthen Heart. Igneous is trash now.

Durham

Nothing right now separates us from the other 4 atm... I've trying the wood elf for the 21% stam regen atm on the test ... but not balanced in PVP atm ... In PVE it's still a great DPS class so I'm sure we will see little change guys

Sensei_Brew

Even if stam DK is the strongest pvp class....It's also the most difficult to play by far......You dont see very many stam dks in Cyrodil. All these claims of overpowered are based on what people see streamers do on twitch and YouTube

Durham

And most the streams are from 3+ months ago when they were running vitality pots ... most people just don't understand that blocking builds now pretty much requires you to use the cheap blocking ultimate...

Ariades_swe

Sensei_Brew wrote: »

Even if stam DK is the strongest pvp class....It's also the most difficult to play by far......You dont see very many stam dks in Cyrodil. All these claims of overpowered are based on what people see streamers do on twitch and YouTube

Rickter

I am legit just curious and just asking but, @NBrookus can you provide an example where

NBrookus wrote: »

I do think stam DKs are overtuned. No class should be so forgiving of player mistakes while still being so powerful when others make mistakes.

, please?

like a complete scenario. I recently changed to stam dk with homestead and i dont feel like its particularly more forgiving than say templars or stam sorcs etc.

let me explain my set up:

5 hundings 1 veli 1 kena 3 agility 1 rando 2h weapon

6 medium - 1 heavy

i understand igneous shields are strong because of Major Mending - but with Morrowind: we still get MM while the shield is up granted it doesnt get popped before we can heal. and as far as Battleroar, I use dawnbreaker as my ult and it doesnt return that much resources anyway so more regen will help balnce that i think. But im really just curious as to what would you see as a mistake, and how stam dk is generally more forgiving of that mistake than another class.

Vapirko

Rickter wrote: »

I am legit just curious and just asking but, @NBrookus can you provide an example where

NBrookus wrote: »

I do think stam DKs are overtuned. No class should be so forgiving of player mistakes while still being so powerful when others make mistakes.

, please?

like a complete scenario. I recently changed to stam dk with homestead and i dont feel like its particularly more forgiving than say templars or stam sorcs etc.

let me explain my set up:

5 hundings 1 veli 1 kena 3 agility 1 rando 2h weapon

6 medium - 1 heavy

i understand igneous shields are strong because of Major Mending - but with Morrowind: we still get MM while the shield is up granted it doesnt get popped before we can heal. and as far as Battleroar, I use dawnbreaker as my ult and it doesnt return that much resources anyway so more regen will help balnce that i think. But im really just curious as to what would you see as a mistake, and how stam dk is generally more forgiving of that mistake than another class.

Stam DK in medium armor is not at all forgiving. Maybe a bit in heavy.

FlyLionel

Vapirko wrote: »

Rickter wrote: »

I am legit just curious and just asking but, @NBrookus can you provide an example where

NBrookus wrote: »

I do think stam DKs are overtuned. No class should be so forgiving of player mistakes while still being so powerful when others make mistakes.

, please?

like a complete scenario. I recently changed to stam dk with homestead and i dont feel like its particularly more forgiving than say templars or stam sorcs etc.

let me explain my set up:

5 hundings 1 veli 1 kena 3 agility 1 rando 2h weapon

6 medium - 1 heavy

i understand igneous shields are strong because of Major Mending - but with Morrowind: we still get MM while the shield is up granted it doesnt get popped before we can heal. and as far as Battleroar, I use dawnbreaker as my ult and it doesnt return that much resources anyway so more regen will help balnce that i think. But im really just curious as to what would you see as a mistake, and how stam dk is generally more forgiving of that mistake than another class.

Stam DK in medium armor is not at all forgiving. Maybe a bit in heavy.

Agreed, hold block+igneous into vigor+rally in heavy and boom...it's mainly the mitigation though = a heavy armour thing. But it's not a DK forgiving situation just a heavy armour situation, there will be a trade-off next patch which is awesome.

Rickter

ok so as a medium armor wearer - this thread doesnt apply to me correct?

Valencer

Stamina DKs are good at not dying, if they spec for it. People seem to value survivability way more than damage compared to 1-2 years ago because of shifts in the meta, so thats probably why some players see them as OP.

Most other stamina DKs I run into can't outdamage my vigor and rally, to be honest... pretty much the least threatening spec to fight. A good stamblade, stamsorc or even stamplar is far more dangerous. Magicka sorcs and damage-specced magplars too.

And in group play, stamina DKs are pretty much useless with the way PvP currently is. Destro ulti for damage, and stamsorcs and stamblades make for better rapids slaves. The spec doesnt have a lot going for it right now

Rickter wrote: »

ok so as a medium armor wearer - this thread doesnt apply to me correct?

Correct. Most of the people who think stam DK is overtuned are indirectly complaining about heavy armour.

Vapirko

Rickter wrote: »

ok so as a medium armor wearer - this thread doesnt apply to me correct?

Well, only in the sense that since you play a stam DK you're getting hit hard next patch because of complaints from people who don't understand what they're complaining about.

FlyLionel

Valencer wrote: »

Stamina DKs are good at not dying, if they spec for it. People seem to value survivability way more than damage compared to 1-2 years ago because of shifts in the meta, so thats probably why some players see them as OP.

Most other stamina DKs I run into can't outdamage my vigor and rally, to be honest... pretty much the least threatening spec to fight. A good stamblade, stamsorc or even stamplar is far more dangerous. Magicka sorcs and damage-specced magplars too.

And in group play, stamina DKs are pretty much useless with the way PvP currently is. Destro ulti for damage, and stamsorcs and stamblades make for better rapids slaves. The spec doesnt have a lot going for it right now

Rapids slaves? Please do not reduce the second strongest class into the game to something that ridiculous. How can anyone be better at something like that?....Okay. Maybe Sorcerers adding it onto their overload bar but that's it. DK is the tankiest class spec'd right and can tank a large group. Don't play victim now.

NBrookus

Right - it's the synergy between heavy armor and stamina DK -- and certain sets. As I said earlier:

NBrookus wrote: »

Oh I agree, but with magplar there's a trade-off. As it should be. Likewise there are some incredibly tanky heavy armor sorcs, magblades and mag DKs, but they are not going to 2-3 shot you. Put a stam DK in WW Hide, Bloodspawn and Fury/7th Legion and there is no tradeoff. That's the builds I think were being "punished," but ZOS has a bad track record of realizing how OP certain sets and combinations can be and is reluctant to fix the problems at the source.

FlyLionel

NBrookus wrote: »

Right - it's the synergy between heavy armor and stamina DK -- and certain sets. As I said earlier:

NBrookus wrote: »

Oh I agree, but with magplar there's a trade-off. As it should be. Likewise there are some incredibly tanky heavy armor sorcs, magblades and mag DKs, but they are not going to 2-3 shot you. Put a stam DK in WW Hide, Bloodspawn and Fury/7th Legion and there is no tradeoff. That's the builds I think were being "punished," but ZOS has a bad track record of realizing how OP certain sets and combinations can be and is reluctant to fix the problems at the source.

^

Rickter

oh i definitely feel the difference in group play. its more single target oriented so i try to focus on the healers or snipe spammers these days.

I pack 3972 weapon dmg in noCP campaign and i feel pretty heavy handed. but when focused or burst myself, it is a constant fight for my life.

I also purposely dont wear proc sets. And i havent completed vMA (mainly just lazy) for a MA weapon. so im lacking on burst. gimped all around.

Valencer

FlyLionel wrote: »

Valencer wrote: »

Stamina DKs are good at not dying, if they spec for it. People seem to value survivability way more than damage compared to 1-2 years ago because of shifts in the meta, so thats probably why some players see them as OP.

Most other stamina DKs I run into can't outdamage my vigor and rally, to be honest... pretty much the least threatening spec to fight. A good stamblade, stamsorc or even stamplar is far more dangerous. Magicka sorcs and damage-specced magplars too.

And in group play, stamina DKs are pretty much useless with the way PvP currently is. Destro ulti for damage, and stamsorcs and stamblades make for better rapids slaves. The spec doesnt have a lot going for it right now

Rapids slaves? Please do not reduce the second strongest class into the game to something that ridiculous. How can anyone be better at something like that?....Okay. Maybe Sorcerers adding it onto their overload bar but that's it. DK is the tankiest class spec'd right and can tank a large group. Don't play victim now.

Rapid maneuver spam is the only real use stamina builds have in large group play at the moment. Thats why I mentioned it, although it's a pretty minor point.

What's the use in tanking a large group? The most succesful groups just stack destro ultis for a reason. Sometimes they have 1 DK running fasalla's just so enemy groups that carelessly hit them with AoEs get healing debuffed... that's about it.

Tanking a large amount of people reliably kind of stopped being a thing with Homestead anyway, when they superbuffed Backlash and Curse. Youll be eating so much unblockable burst damage now that you won't survive for long unless the people youre tanking just entered Cyrodiil for the first time ever and are just clicking random buttons.