Help countering mag dk reflective scales

WacArnold

From a magblades view when I fight mag dks they use wings constantly against me, what can I do? I'm not talking about players that use them occasionally I'm talking about aways having wings up what is a strategic way to beat them?

dodgehopper_ESO

AoE, Melee, and Channeled skills.

AverageJo3Gam3r

Crushing shock goes through it.

dodgehopper_ESO

AverageJo3Gam3r wrote: »

Crushing shock goes through it.

This is true. I imagine he's upset about the Funnel skill bouncing back on him.

WacArnold

AverageJo3Gam3r wrote: »

Crushing shock goes through it.

Yeah I hate crushing shock compared to swallow I'm a heavy build with hots so I really need swallow

WacArnold

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

AoE, Melee, and Channeled skills.

Hmm I will have to work something in my build special for mag dks then

AverageJo3Gam3r

Yep. Just pointing out the counter play. Wings doesn't reflect much anymore. Funnel. Merciless. Snipe. frags. Dark flare. Pretty much nothing else.

Your other serious option is to cripple them then run away. No mDK can catch you.

WacArnold

AverageJo3Gam3r wrote: »

Yep. Just pointing out the counter play. Wings doesn't reflect much anymore. Funnel. Merciless. Snipe. frags. Dark flare. Pretty much nothing else.

Your other serious option is to cripple them then run away. No mDK can catch you.

Cripple may be reflective I swear I have crippled my self before maybe not though, might have just thrown that out the same time they used talons. I will just have to run shock in dueling them.

FriedEggSandwich

It's unusual for them to have wings up 100%, it's not easy to cast it every 4s consistently, should just be a matter of staying at range and waiting till they slip up. I would wait till they cast it, count to 3 and then cc. Use a cc that drops block if you can. This should give you a small window to hit them. You can also bait them into trying to burst you down by making them think you slipped up. They're less likely to worry about wings if they think they have you on the back foot. Some dks are just not worth fighting as a ranged player though. Also resource poisons will really screw up a dk if you're prepared to go there, cheesy but effective.

Edit: also use an execute, dks need executing

brandishsteel

my way to counter them is
1. spam resto light/heavy attack while your siphon attack is on , spam some healing ward if you get low , and try apply some dots on them, with this they will never kill u.
2. until they lost their patient, u see they drop their wings
3. apply dot first, then BANG use the nb siphon ult + assassin will, immediately hit them to execute range and then 1 impale = gg

WacArnold

brandishsteel wrote: »

my way to counter them is
1. spam resto light/heavy attack while your siphon attack is on , spam some healing ward if you get low , and try apply some dots on them, with this they will never kill u.
2. until they lost their patient, u see they drop their wings
3. apply dot first, then BANG use the nb siphon ult + assassin will, immediately hit them to execute range and then 1 impale = gg

Ha yeah, had a dk trying so hard to kill me and couldn't, but as soon as I tryed to attack up went the wings ><

WacArnold

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

It's unusual for them to have wings up 100%, it's not easy to cast it every 4s consistently, should just be a matter of staying at range and waiting till they slip up. I would wait till they cast it, count to 3 and then cc. Use a cc that drops block if you can. This should give you a small window to hit them. You can also bait them into trying to burst you down by making them think you slipped up. They're less likely to worry about wings if they think they have you on the back foot. Some dks are just not worth fighting as a ranged player though. Also resource poisons will really screw up a dk if you're prepared to go there, cheesy but effective.

Edit: also use an execute, dks need executing

Resource poisons are fair game when all your skills are being reflected lol.

arkansas_ESO

WacArnold wrote: »

AverageJo3Gam3r wrote: »

Yep. Just pointing out the counter play. Wings doesn't reflect much anymore. Funnel. Merciless. Snipe. frags. Dark flare. Pretty much nothing else.

Your other serious option is to cripple them then run away. No mDK can catch you.

Cripple may be reflective I swear I have crippled my self before maybe not though, might have just thrown that out the same time they used talons. I will just have to run shock in dueling them.

Cripple can be reflected, yeah.

fred4

Soul Assault, Impale, Concealed Weapon ... depends what you have in your build. I play magblade, but I haven't solved this yet either, because I don't meet many flappy DKs open world. I am running into more people using Defensive Stance, who typically only reflect my opener.

Rickter

WacArnold wrote: »

I really need swallow

thats what she said

sorry couldnt help myself.

Koolio

WacArnold wrote: »

From a magblades view when I fight mag dks they use wings constantly against me, what can I do? I'm not talking about players that use them occasionally I'm talking about aways having wings up what is a strategic way to beat them?

Wings wait two second fear. Repeat.

DHale

Wait four second wings are super expensive he will run out of magic before you. Otherwise lightning heavy or resto heavy.

casparian

Here is an exceptionally helpful thread from a couple patches ago. Still quite relevant.

Minno

If using double take, just let them reflect the light attacks. Burn their mag pool, dodge the attacks, then use your offensive skills when you see them not spamming wings lol.

Minno

casparian wrote: »

Here is an exceptionally helpful thread from a couple patches ago. Still quite relevant.

Relevant for everyone, NB and enemies. Thanks!

bg22

Uh... melee.

thankyourat

Light attack them and kite with shade as long as you keep kiting away they will have a hard time finishing you off. Just keep kiting until you get a opportunity to burst. alot of them will actually start to get complacent because they don't think you can kill them. If you use valkyn skoria it will also add some needed pressure when fighting mag dk's because it's damage that can't be reflected make sure you are cc'ing them. Mag dk's will try to control you but if you flip the fight and control them they'll run out of resources pretty fast. You can also switch dampen to harness

Open world I always keep either sap or concealed weapon on my bar so I have some damage that bypasses wings. Fighting them open world is the same as dueling just apply pressure with sap and skoria until you can burst them. If they are too tanky though it's best to plan your escape so you won't get pinned down and zerged.

Veraen

AverageJo3Gam3r wrote: »

Yep. Just pointing out the counter play. Wings doesn't reflect much anymore. Funnel. Merciless. Snipe. frags. Dark flare. Pretty much nothing else.

And the sorcerer ultimate overload. There is pretty much nothing funnier than watching a sorcerer kill themselves with their own light overload attacks. Hehe

glavius

Reflect was always the bane of ranged magicka builds. You may kill them eventually, but it's always a long fight unless they are terrible players.

Reroll stam NB and you wont have a counter, that's what I did :-)

CavalryPK

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

It's unusual for them to have wings up 100%, it's not easy to cast it every 4s consistently, should just be a matter of staying at range and waiting till they slip up. I would wait till they cast it, count to 3 and then cc. Use a cc that drops block if you can. This should give you a small window to hit them. You can also bait them into trying to burst you down by making them think you slipped up. They're less likely to worry about wings if they think they have you on the back foot. Some dks are just not worth fighting as a ranged player though. Also resource poisons will really screw up a dk if you're prepared to go there, cheesy but effective.

Edit: also use an execute, dks need executing

I don't know man. there are DKs who in CP campaign are able to keep 90%-100% uptime on their wings. it crazy... I don't know how they manage it. super frustrating to fight. and there are amazing DK that whatever I do they cast the Wings right before I am about to do my burst...lol... I found out the healing patch and heavy resto is the way to go until you have an opportunity for a cripple or CC + burst....

OtarTheMad

CC them with Fossilize (if also DK) or Agony

Curse, Soul Trap, Entropy, Crushing Shock, lightning and resto heavy attack all can't be reflected. If you're a sorc Daedric mines is your friend as well. Don't forget the CC from Volcanic Rune can come in handy. Plenty of ways to counter wings.

Sharee

If he can cast wings constantly, he is in light armor. Fear -> (soul harvest if up) -> burst, after they recover cloak(or port to shade -> cloak), wait for CC immunity to wear off, repeat. There really isn't anything he can do.

Kas

not play a cripple+swallow+assiassin's will centric build. if you still do, you hopefully have some other skills as well, e.g. wall/path.

in general, i think it's best to play very denfensively, spam harness magicka a LOT (easily usutainable in terms of magicka, quesion is if you can sustain your life pool as well. don't block and don't dodge taloms (unless you'd stay inside a meteor aoe otherwise) and thus keep your stamina for break free. harness + healing ward should allow you to make this a very long fight.

going from there, wait for openings (e.g. when the dk forgets or deliberatly skips wings for more offense or magicka management). it's very imporntat to keep track of wings up- and downtime and go for pressure during downtime.

in general, it's a rather bad matchup for you. a destro+sap+lotus monkey is a bad 1v1 build but would be almost unaffected by reflect. i cannot think of any other decent build (either class) that would have this many problems with reflect.

if you know upfront that you fight such a build, force pulse/cshock is better than swallow imho. path&blockadel are awesome, etc. you could also slot concealed.

Sharee

Kas wrote: »

if you know upfront that you fight such a build, force pulse/cshock is better than swallow imho.

Just to add to this - since a NB has very easy time to reset the fight(shade port -> cloak) and it only takes 6 seconds to get out of combat after fighting stops, it should be easy to just disengage, slot different skills, and re-engage. So even if you don't know upfront you are going to fight this build, you should be able to adjust "mid-fight", so to say.