PVP balance : Make shields CRITICABLE ?

NeillMcAttack

Resistances don't count on shields, so I don't believe impen would either. If shields were critable it would be such a massive buff to high crit, stam and shadow builds. They would just disappear. They wouldn't last more than two seconds!!!!

NeillMcAttack

Double post.

Dragath

Others

it's pretty obvious that shields are too good, thats why a lot of other games have mechanics to keep them in check.
shields have the best of both worlds.
they can be used preemptively like a hot AND in clutch situations like an instant heal.
yes, they don't profit from resistances, but that makes hardly a difference for light armor users and most importantly, they can't be crit.
so, what to do?
making them critable is just too much, they would lose a lot of value, and the fact that they are not critable is not the problem.
the problem is, as mentioned before, they have the best of both worlds.
applying and stacking them gives a high amount of leeway in a fight, which is what makes them so good.
my personal fix would be to do the following:
if a shield is applied to a target with 100% health, reduce it's amount by half.
stacking would be possible, but not as strong.
shields would basically cost double for their value, if used preemptively.
shields would remain as strong in clutch situations.
good players would still be possible to get the most value out of their shields, relying on their skill to use them in the right situations instead of mindlessly reapplying them every 6 seconds.

hassubhai

No, keep shields un-criticable

People just cant handle that sorc is the one class you cant insta burst in one shot on your own, every player that wants shields nerfed has never tried to time their burst for the 6 secons mark of the shield. Also after patch they wont be able to shield forever due to resource restrictions.

DeadlyRecluse

No, keep shields un-criticable

Not everything should be the same.

Shields have an interesting dynamic where they can't crit (unlike heals) but can't be crit--they may need to be balanced, but the lack of interaction with crit (both positive and negative) should remain, imo.

Minalan

No, keep shields un-criticable

Shields do NOT have armor resists.

So... No you can't crit them. That's the balance part of it.

If you want to make them critable, fine. Just give them heavy armor resists like Templars and DK's. And then let my 2K impen apply to shields. Then you're doing the same damage as you would without a crit and no armor.

No? I figured as much. You all just want easy one shot sorc kills. GFY...

GrigorijMalahevich

Derra wrote: »

If shields were to be critable they would have to be subject to crit themselves (meaning increased shield if you crit cast them - ofc also modified by your heal/dmg crit cp).

Also physical- and spellresistance would have to work on shields aswell as impenetrable, because the reason why shields can not be crit is that all those don´t work on shields.

Also you should be able to crit on block, because why would you not be able to critically hit someone blocking but a magical barrier?

+1 brother sorc. I use this argument all the time when someone starts complaining about shields...

If shields become critable, they also need to have your resistance, then heavy armor sorcs become a thing. I can't even start imagining the sault from reactive/heavy seducer sorcs with shields and pirate skeleton

To everyone else - be careful what you wish for.

UnversedNumber3

Others

Damage mitigation should not affect shields its too powerful. Shields should not be critable. With no form of bust healing shields are the only survive-ability that sorcs have. It would also be a nerf to any other class that has shields.

Emma_Overload

No, keep shields un-criticable

anathosdm wrote: »

make Pirate Skeletton damage reduction not applies on shield ( it looks like the majority of the community agrees on this )

HAHAHAHAHA.... dude, the majority has not agreed on any such thing, and even if they did, it wouldn't be relevant. Asking a community full of non-Sorcs whether damage reductions should apply to shields is like asking 3 wolves and 1 sheep what should be for dinner: of course 75% are going to say lamb chops!

Lord-Otto

Others

Mind you, shields are no burst heal. They don't take you out of execute range. Except for the delayed, unreliable Healing Ward. That argument is void.

Derra

No, keep shields un-criticable

Dragath wrote: »

it's pretty obvious that shields are too good, thats why a lot of other games have mechanics to keep them in check.
shields have the best of both worlds.
they can be used preemptively like a hot AND in clutch situations like an instant heal.
yes, they don't profit from resistances, but that makes hardly a difference for light armor users and most importantly, they can't be crit.
so, what to do?
making them critable is just too much, they would lose a lot of value, and the fact that they are not critable is not the problem.
the problem is, as mentioned before, they have the best of both worlds.
applying and stacking them gives a high amount of leeway in a fight, which is what makes them so good.
my personal fix would be to do the following:
if a shield is applied to a target with 100% health, reduce it's amount by half.
stacking would be possible, but not as strong.
shields would basically cost double for their value, if used preemptively.
shields would remain as strong in clutch situations.
good players would still be possible to get the most value out of their shields, relying on their skill to use them in the right situations instead of mindlessly reapplying them every 6 seconds.

Another solution that makes using only one shield less desireable - while at the same time encourages people to run multiple shields to compensate.
Why does nobody ask themself: How do i discourage the use of multiple shields (on sorcs for that matter).

Almost every possibility brought up on these forums on the topic of adjusting (nerfing) shields wants to nerf the mechanic in general (which is exactly the ZOS way of doing things that nobody seems to like). Flatout carpetbombing nerfs in the hope of hitting the right target that push people into extremes even more instead of nerfing the extremes and keeping the reasonable approach vaible.

Don´t get me wrong. I´m highly in favor of nerfing 3 stacked shields (even only one shield on extremely high magica builds) on builds utilizing pirate for example. There are situations where shields are definetly overperforming.
But you have to figure out when and how that happens and how you can adress that scenario - because i don´t think a 10k hardened ward without pirate skeleton is overperforming (as an example).
And if you want to take your time go to my post history and read what i think should be done about shields (in short: tie maximum shieldvalue a char can have to HP - scaling remains magica but no more 25k shields on 19k hp, make hardened + harness unstackable, reduce healing ward duration and adjust shieldsize down initial heal up, create a mechanic that allows for mild scaling on shields in outnumbered situations, rework pirate skeleton - it´s too good on every build not only sorcs).

technohic

Others

How about they make your max total shield based on your character level rather than your stat level.

This means that if your stat is below 25k, this is a buff. If it is above 25k, this is a nerf.

Oh. And get rid of the shield debuff in cyrodiil then once this happens. That was the worst nerf ever as far as just blanket nerfing everything and not addressing the problem.

Derra

No, keep shields un-criticable

technohic wrote: »

How about they make your max total shield based on your character level rather than your stat level.

This means that if your stat is below 25k, this is a buff. If it is above 25k, this is a nerf.

Oh. And get rid of the shield debuff in cyrodiil then once this happens. That was the worst nerf ever as far as just blanket nerfing everything and not addressing the problem.

You´d have to do the same to every dmg and heal mechanic aswell.
Shields are already limited in that regard as they only scale with resource.

It´s one of my main pet peeves with the "shields are so freaking op" crowd that say you get everything by just stacking resource.
It´s true you get offense and defense by stacking magica. But how is a heavy armor build different that stacks weapondmg. The scaling on weapondmg bonuses for healing and damage is unarguably better than the scaling of resources and basically every class (except for edit: stamina templar) can eliminate regen from their builds entirely - that´s fine but shields scaling only on max resource isn´t? Aha.

Waffennacht

No, keep shields un-criticable

Derra wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

How about they make your max total shield based on your character level rather than your stat level.

This means that if your stat is below 25k, this is a buff. If it is above 25k, this is a nerf.

Oh. And get rid of the shield debuff in cyrodiil then once this happens. That was the worst nerf ever as far as just blanket nerfing everything and not addressing the problem.

You´d have to do the same to every dmg and heal mechanic aswell.
Shields are already limited in that regard as they only scale with resource.

It´s one of my main pet peeves with the "shields are so freaking op" crowd that say you get everything by just stacking resource.
It´s true you get offense and defense by stacking magica. But how is a heavy armor build different that stacks weapondmg. The scaling on weapondmg bonuses for healing and damage is unarguably better than the scaling of resources and basically every class (except for templar) can eliminate regen from their builds entirely - that´s fine but shields scaling only on max resource isn´t? Aha.

There's the @Derra we fell in love with lol.

Agree 100%

Minalan

No, keep shields un-criticable

Waffennacht wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

How about they make your max total shield based on your character level rather than your stat level.

This means that if your stat is below 25k, this is a buff. If it is above 25k, this is a nerf.

Oh. And get rid of the shield debuff in cyrodiil then once this happens. That was the worst nerf ever as far as just blanket nerfing everything and not addressing the problem.

You´d have to do the same to every dmg and heal mechanic aswell.
Shields are already limited in that regard as they only scale with resource.

It´s one of my main pet peeves with the "shields are so freaking op" crowd that say you get everything by just stacking resource.
It´s true you get offense and defense by stacking magica. But how is a heavy armor build different that stacks weapondmg. The scaling on weapondmg bonuses for healing and damage is unarguably better than the scaling of resources and basically every class (except for templar) can eliminate regen from their builds entirely - that´s fine but shields scaling only on max resource isn´t? Aha.

There's the @Derra we fell in love with lol.

Agree 100%

Yes. Yes it is.