The Future of Solo Stam PvP Looks Grim

Stamicka

I'll start by saying solo play is not dead, but it is dying. Currently being a solo Stam player is an option and it relies on these core mechanics: dodge rolling, resource management, kiting, and keeping your health up with vigor. This is a difficult playstyle in this meta but with heavy armor and a good understanding of your class it can be quite fun, rewarding, and sucessful.

Unfortunately it looks like this playstyle might die with this next update and here's why:

Universal Stam Nerfs
Heavy Armor Nerf- yes, Heavy Armor was too strong but it became popular because damage in cyrodil was getting too high. Basically if you weren't a Nightblade, you needed heavy armor to survive solo and 1vx. In the next update, sustain nerfs heavy are making it look not viable anymore. This will force us into medium armor, which in this Meta is too squishy against multiple targets (especially with spinners/Spriggans). Zenimax only did a minor nerf to damage from
CP but huge nerfs to survivability CPs, this means you'll most likely be squishier than ever.

Healing Nerf- Vigor, our main heal was increased in cost, this combined with other cost reduction nerfs means that casting this ability will hurt your resources pretty badly. Considering this ability is casted ALOT when solo, sustaining will be unreasonably hard. Another huge Nerf to healing is basically the removal of major mending (not quite but pretty much) and the Nerf to healing CPs. This means that vigor ticks will be much lower for stamplars/dks mostly but also for the other 2 Stam classes. With lower healing ticks, survivability is basically gone.

Medium Armor Cost Reduction NERF?:
Yea medium armor cost reduction passive was nerfed. Medium armor was already an inferior armor type but it just got worse. Not only will you be forced into medium armor, but your sustain won't even be very good with it on.

Individual Class Nerfs
Stam DK:
Yep the class that is arguably best at solo Stam gameplay is going to become pretty weak. Major Mending won't stay up, battle roar is hurt.. badly. It's not pretty for this class

Stamplar: no major mending.. no real reason to be a Stamplar.

Nightblade: sustain Nerf

Sorc: not very affected, probably the go to class now cause of major mending Nerfs and dark deal being so good for Stam management.

There you have it, all Stam classes Nerfed and also removal of compelling reasons not to be a Stam sorc. Bad survivability mixed with bad sustain will make it extremely hard to be a solo player. I don't have an issue with the idea of nerfing heavy armor and healing, but damage should be nerfed in proportion to all the survivability nerfs. All Zenimax has done is encouraged zerging. You won't be able to survive on your own, and any loner that a Zerg does encounter will have such poor survivability that he/she will melt instantly without a chance to at least escape. Not happy with these changes at all. While damage was technically slightly nerfed with CP changes, it's technically gonna feel higher with weak vigor ticks and medium armor.

Grim times for solo Stam players ahead.

Waffennacht

I'm very surprised at how much got nerfed and how un touched sorc was.

I'm actually starting to feel, once these changes happen, sorc will be OP. Just gotta be honest.

An unconditional resource return ability in an environment where everything just got massive increase in cost/reduction reduction(heh)/regen nerf, is just incredible.

But I can't say anything for sure, I'm not on PTS nor can I truly comprehend all the changes till I try em.

CatchMeTrolling

If solo play is dead or dying for stam to you what is it for magic builds?

TheBonesXXX

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

If solo play is dead or dying for stam to you what is it for magic builds?

It dont exist.

ManDraKE

The nerf on sustain, and CP stacking will force ppl to spend more on sustain, lowering their max damage by a fair amount. That itself, and the buff to dodge roll, will make medium armor way more viable imo. You are still going to be squizzy, but i think is going to be better than on Live currently, everyone will be doing less damage.

Nerfing the reduce cost of light and medium armor is plain wrong imo, no need to do that at all, in pvp light and medium are already weak, why the nerf?

Everyone got a sustain neft, not really seeing an issue with classes, maybe except with the DK but just for a perspective of playstyle, they still will have better sustain than stamplar for example. The nerf to major mending in EVERYONE is a good thing, they just need to change that new mechanic with the dk shield because is too small, giving them a longer minor mending will be better.

CatchMeTrolling

TheBonesXXX wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

If solo play is dead or dying for stam to you what is it for magic builds?

It dont exist.

Might be on to something

Stamicka

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

If solo play is dead or dying for stam to you what is it for magic builds?

Well In general, zerging will probably be more effective which won't be good for Magicka builds either. However, I don't think Magic was hit as hard with this patch. For example mag sorcs, with dark deal plus the lich set (which is common among sorcs) they'll probably be fine with all the nerfs to sustain.. oh and also shields were untouched so they and other light armor magic classes will still be sort of survivable. Other than sorc Magicka builds will struggle solo as well.. I just didn't comment on it cause I stopped doing open world with Magicka builds so It's harder to accurately say how this patch will affect it.

Stamicka

ManDraKE wrote: »

The nerf on sustain, and CP stacking will force ppl to spend more on sustain, lowering their max damage by a fair amount. That itself, and the buff to dodge roll, will make medium armor way more viable imo. You are still going to be squizzy, but i think is going to be better than on Live currently, everyone will be doing less damage.

Nerfing the reduce cost of light and medium armor is plain wrong imo, no need to do that at all, in pvp light and medium are already weak, why the nerf?

Everyone got a sustain neft, not really seeing an issue with classes, maybe except with the DK but just for a perspective of playstyle, they still will have better sustain than stamplar for example. The nerf to major mending in EVERYONE is a good thing, they just need to change that new mechanic with the dk shield because is too small, giving them a longer minor mending will be better.

Good point, but I don't think the average zerger will worry about building towards sustain. In the big picture you won't need sustain if you're with 12+ focusing on 1-4 people. A group will most likely have a healer which means less resources used towards defense, and you won't need to attack much cause your group is helping you kill people. Small Scalers will be the ones that need the sustain.

mrdankles

ZOS is garbage. Played game since launch and once morrowind drops, I shall retire the game. Turning into wow with crappy class nerfs and unable to keep balance.

Lexxypwns

Stamicka wrote: »

ManDraKE wrote: »

The nerf on sustain, and CP stacking will force ppl to spend more on sustain, lowering their max damage by a fair amount. That itself, and the buff to dodge roll, will make medium armor way more viable imo. You are still going to be squizzy, but i think is going to be better than on Live currently, everyone will be doing less damage.

Nerfing the reduce cost of light and medium armor is plain wrong imo, no need to do that at all, in pvp light and medium are already weak, why the nerf?

Everyone got a sustain neft, not really seeing an issue with classes, maybe except with the DK but just for a perspective of playstyle, they still will have better sustain than stamplar for example. The nerf to major mending in EVERYONE is a good thing, they just need to change that new mechanic with the dk shield because is too small, giving them a longer minor mending will be better.

Good point, but I don't think the average zerger will worry about building towards sustain. In the big picture you won't need sustain if you're with 12+ focusing on 1-4 people. A group will most likely have a healer which means less resources used towards defense, and you won't need to attack much cause your group is helping you kill people. Small Scalers will be the ones that need the sustain.

I think large scale organized group play is more resource intensive than solo play.

I'm a solo player btw

ManDraKE

Stamicka wrote: »

Good point, but I don't think the average zerger will worry about building towards sustain. In the big picture you won't need sustain if you're with 12+ focusing on 1-4 people. A group will most likely have a healer which means less resources used towards defense, and you won't need to attack much cause your group is helping you kill people. Small Scalers will be the ones that need the sustain.

everyone needs sustain. Ofc for solo players everythign is harder, but bad zerglings will run out of resouces in 1 or 2 CC breaks, currently they can CC break and permablock forever while calling the zerg via Teamspeak lol. A bit of LoS and chasing around and most of the mediocre zerglings will run out stam.

Is hard to know in advance, so many changes, we need to see how everything fall into place in game but i think is going to be way better than it is now, on live many players are being carried by heavy armor and infinite resources, lets see what happens when they get forced to manage their resources.

Miruku

Meh they say this every time this time it might hold true.

But you will never keep my stamblade weak

TheBonesXXX

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

TheBonesXXX wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

If solo play is dead or dying for stam to you what is it for magic builds?

It dont exist.

Might be on to something

I took a keep with you the other day. Theres mNB solo skillz, granted I still melee.

TheBonesXXX

ManDraKE wrote: »

The nerf on sustain, and CP stacking will force ppl to spend more on sustain, lowering their max damage by a fair amount. That itself, and the buff to dodge roll, will make medium armor way more viable imo. You are still going to be squizzy, but i think is going to be better than on Live currently, everyone will be doing less damage.

Nerfing the reduce cost of light and medium armor is plain wrong imo, no need to do that at all, in pvp light and medium are already weak, why the nerf?

Everyone got a sustain neft, not really seeing an issue with classes, maybe except with the DK but just for a perspective of playstyle, they still will have better sustain than stamplar for example. The nerf to major mending in EVERYONE is a good thing, they just need to change that new mechanic with the dk shield because is too small, giving them a longer minor mending will be better.

Argonian master race.

Verbz

dang so much QQ.... "oh no they gonna take away my god mode, soooo unfair" , bend over and take what zos got to give ya.

theres no such thing as perfect balance, as with any game, you will get fotm, one class goes strong 1 goes weak, a bit later roles will be reversed,

like someone else said, see what happens when it comes, then as any good player will do "adapt, evolve and survive"

i say bring on the buffs, bring on the nerfs its nice to get an ever changing game,

i think the only thing i wanna see it change to is if your able to take all the damage in the world you shouldnt be able to deal damage in such high numbers.... tanks take damage , glass cannons deal damage, then u got the middle ground.

Durham

Well people are going to flame this ... most people that PVP run in ball groups and find safety in numbers ... however it actually hurts them as a player ... These are some of the easiest people to kill in PVP .. Half do not have food up ... and are oblivious to animation canceling and have seen them run from a rogue mudcrab at Sej...

Biro123

Waffennacht wrote: »

I'm very surprised at how much got nerfed and how un touched sorc was.

I'm actually starting to feel, once these changes happen, sorc will be OP. Just gotta be honest.

An unconditional resource return ability in an environment where everything just got massive increase in cost/reduction reduction(heh)/regen nerf, is just incredible.

But I can't say anything for sure, I'm not on PTS nor can I truly comprehend all the changes till I try em.

I kind of think you could be right..

Although I do think stamsorc will be hit much harder than most ppl realise. Their only sustain ability is dark-deal - which currently relies on the magicka return from constitution to power it. The combination of higher stam cost, and nerf to redguard passive - means more dark-dealing needed - but with the constitution nerf, theres a lot les magicka to sustain those dark deals (and that isn't the only mandatory thing a stamsorc uses its mag pool for).

runningtings

Yes, looks like my days of sneaky killing and cloaking away may be over, but seeing as I have been playing the same way in the same gear for months, maybe this will force me to change it up a bit.

Not always a bad thing.

Lord_MK

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Stamicka wrote: »

ManDraKE wrote: »

The nerf on sustain, and CP stacking will force ppl to spend more on sustain, lowering their max damage by a fair amount. That itself, and the buff to dodge roll, will make medium armor way more viable imo. You are still going to be squizzy, but i think is going to be better than on Live currently, everyone will be doing less damage.

Nerfing the reduce cost of light and medium armor is plain wrong imo, no need to do that at all, in pvp light and medium are already weak, why the nerf?

Everyone got a sustain neft, not really seeing an issue with classes, maybe except with the DK but just for a perspective of playstyle, they still will have better sustain than stamplar for example. The nerf to major mending in EVERYONE is a good thing, they just need to change that new mechanic with the dk shield because is too small, giving them a longer minor mending will be better.

Good point, but I don't think the average zerger will worry about building towards sustain. In the big picture you won't need sustain if you're with 12+ focusing on 1-4 people. A group will most likely have a healer which means less resources used towards defense, and you won't need to attack much cause your group is helping you kill people. Small Scalers will be the ones that need the sustain.

I think large scale organized group play is more resource intensive than solo play.

I'm a solo player btw

Idk bro when I've zerged in the past I just throw on steel tornado, spam aoes, and if I do *** up.. bam I got some healbot carrying me with shards and BoL

Cathexis

Lord_MK wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Stamicka wrote: »

ManDraKE wrote: »

The nerf on sustain, and CP stacking will force ppl to spend more on sustain, lowering their max damage by a fair amount. That itself, and the buff to dodge roll, will make medium armor way more viable imo. You are still going to be squizzy, but i think is going to be better than on Live currently, everyone will be doing less damage.

Nerfing the reduce cost of light and medium armor is plain wrong imo, no need to do that at all, in pvp light and medium are already weak, why the nerf?

Everyone got a sustain neft, not really seeing an issue with classes, maybe except with the DK but just for a perspective of playstyle, they still will have better sustain than stamplar for example. The nerf to major mending in EVERYONE is a good thing, they just need to change that new mechanic with the dk shield because is too small, giving them a longer minor mending will be better.

Good point, but I don't think the average zerger will worry about building towards sustain. In the big picture you won't need sustain if you're with 12+ focusing on 1-4 people. A group will most likely have a healer which means less resources used towards defense, and you won't need to attack much cause your group is helping you kill people. Small Scalers will be the ones that need the sustain.

I think large scale organized group play is more resource intensive than solo play.

I'm a solo player btw

Idk bro when I've zerged in the past I just throw on steel tornado, spam aoes, and if I do *** up.. bam I got some healbot carrying me with shards and BoL

This.

CatchMeTrolling

TheBonesXXX wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

TheBonesXXX wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

If solo play is dead or dying for stam to you what is it for magic builds?

It dont exist.

Might be on to something

I took a keep with you the other day. Theres mNB solo skillz, granted I still melee.

Wasn't me, I don't play on that account though it's others that has similar names as me, guess I started a trend.

Besides that I don't like taking keeps unless I must these days, my last day's on my main account was playing melee magblade though.

DHale

Your rune and ritual only grant minor mending in new patch which is 22 percent loss to healing right?

Waffennacht

DHale wrote: »

Your rune and ritual only grant minor mending in new patch which is 22 percent loss to healing right?

Not quite, they buffed the templars healing passive, so it's like... 20% lmfao

EnOeZ

It always has been.
No PVP vision of the game, although many of us have, they keep hiring not capable people in the area.

peeslingerb14_ESO

runningtings wrote: »

Yes, looks like my days of sneaky killing and cloaking away may be over, but seeing as I have been playing the same way in the same gear for months, maybe this will force me to change it up a bit.

Not always a bad thing.

I think you are off on that statement. There is a difference in a single overpowered ability that was core to a build being nerfed. ZOS has nerfed an entire meta.

I picture the state of the game when craglorn was released. When you essentially didn't even have enough resources or sustain to reliably take out overland trash mobs. Even stamina builds back bared a resto stuff. Considently this period in time was when the player base disappeared. You went from 15 or so pvp campaigns be filled to barely enough players to support one campaign.

Rickter

I dont really find myself using vigor. . . . i guess im just bad. its on my bar, but i find that a igneous shields + rally and im almost if not full health.

i do pop it for time to time but its usually because i forgot it was there and then go, oh yeah i should just go ahead and have a dot on me.

The DK battleroar was negligible for me as well. I use dawnbreaker and i never felt like i got that much resource back from it anyway.

and i already wear 6 medium.

so idk maybe i went against hte grain too much and these changes are not going to be noticed by me

or maybe i just think outside the box and built a build from adjustments and experiences i had dueling outside wayrest.

i dont plan on many changes come Morrowind to my build

TheDoomsdayMonster

Stamicka wrote: »

I'll start by saying solo play is not dead, but it is dying. Currently being a solo Stam player is an option and it relies on these core mechanics: dodge rolling, resource management, kiting, and keeping your health up with vigor. This is a difficult playstyle in this meta but with heavy armor and a good understanding of your class it can be quite fun, rewarding, and sucessful.

Unfortunately it looks like this playstyle might die with this next update and here's why:

Universal Stam Nerfs
Heavy Armor Nerf- yes, Heavy Armor was too strong but it became popular because damage in cyrodil was getting too high. Basically if you weren't a Nightblade, you needed heavy armor to survive solo and 1vx. In the next update, sustain nerfs heavy are making it look not viable anymore. This will force us into medium armor, which in this Meta is too squishy against multiple targets (especially with spinners/Spriggans). Zenimax only did a minor nerf to damage from
CP but huge nerfs to survivability CPs, this means you'll most likely be squishier than ever.

Healing Nerf- Vigor, our main heal was increased in cost, this combined with other cost reduction nerfs means that casting this ability will hurt your resources pretty badly. Considering this ability is casted ALOT when solo, sustaining will be unreasonably hard. Another huge Nerf to healing is basically the removal of major mending (not quite but pretty much) and the Nerf to healing CPs. This means that vigor ticks will be much lower for stamplars/dks mostly but also for the other 2 Stam classes. With lower healing ticks, survivability is basically gone.

Medium Armor Cost Reduction NERF?:
Yea medium armor cost reduction passive was nerfed. Medium armor was already an inferior armor type but it just got worse. Not only will you be forced into medium armor, but your sustain won't even be very good with it on.

Individual Class Nerfs
Stam DK:
Yep the class that is arguably best at solo Stam gameplay is going to become pretty weak. Major Mending won't stay up, battle roar is hurt.. badly. It's not pretty for this class

Stamplar: no major mending.. no real reason to be a Stamplar.

Nightblade: sustain Nerf

Sorc: not very affected, probably the go to class now cause of major mending Nerfs and dark deal being so good for Stam management.

There you have it, all Stam classes Nerfed and also removal of compelling reasons not to be a Stam sorc. Bad survivability mixed with bad sustain will make it extremely hard to be a solo player. I don't have an issue with the idea of nerfing heavy armor and healing, but damage should be nerfed in proportion to all the survivability nerfs. All Zenimax has done is encouraged zerging. You won't be able to survive on your own, and any loner that a Zerg does encounter will have such poor survivability that he/she will melt instantly without a chance to at least escape. Not happy with these changes at all. While damage was technically slightly nerfed with CP changes, it's technically gonna feel higher with weak vigor ticks and medium armor.

Grim times for solo Stam players ahead.

Bah...

I survive just fine on Magicka Templar with 5 Light, 1 Medium, and 1 Heavy...

All it took was careful character building and a good understanding of how to play my class...

You will adapt as well; you'll just have to get used to not having it all (High Defense, High Sustain, Excellent Damage output all in one)...

komodozermike

What this tells me is that there are way too many Nightblades.

Zenimax simply saw the data, crunched the numbers, and then went on to weaken the class in order to balance things out.

Sensei_Brew

Survival of the fittest.....Those who adapt will still solo pvp well...Same story different update

Lexxypwns

Lord_MK wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Stamicka wrote: »

ManDraKE wrote: »

The nerf on sustain, and CP stacking will force ppl to spend more on sustain, lowering their max damage by a fair amount. That itself, and the buff to dodge roll, will make medium armor way more viable imo. You are still going to be squizzy, but i think is going to be better than on Live currently, everyone will be doing less damage.

Nerfing the reduce cost of light and medium armor is plain wrong imo, no need to do that at all, in pvp light and medium are already weak, why the nerf?

Everyone got a sustain neft, not really seeing an issue with classes, maybe except with the DK but just for a perspective of playstyle, they still will have better sustain than stamplar for example. The nerf to major mending in EVERYONE is a good thing, they just need to change that new mechanic with the dk shield because is too small, giving them a longer minor mending will be better.

Good point, but I don't think the average zerger will worry about building towards sustain. In the big picture you won't need sustain if you're with 12+ focusing on 1-4 people. A group will most likely have a healer which means less resources used towards defense, and you won't need to attack much cause your group is helping you kill people. Small Scalers will be the ones that need the sustain.

I think large scale organized group play is more resource intensive than solo play.

I'm a solo player btw

Idk bro when I've zerged in the past I just throw on steel tornado, spam aoes, and if I do *** up.. bam I got some healbot carrying me with shards and BoL

Notice I didn't say zerging. Fighting a large organized group as a large organized group requires MUCH more sustain than solo. This is why much of a large guild group is going to be sustain focused builds with a few high damage builds for that sweet destro burst.

Drakkdjinn

TheBonesXXX wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

If solo play is dead or dying for stam to you what is it for magic builds?

It dont exist.

You have no idea what you're talking about.