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Theorycrafting Magicka DK no CP

Quickline
Quickline
Does anybody have a nice build? I was thinking about Blackrose, Amberplasm, Skoria / Bloddspawn but not sure with that!
  • SneaK
    SneaK
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    Syrabane/Seducer or Desert Rose and a Monster Set..
    "IMO"
    Aldmeri Dominion
    Bosmer Nightblade AR 32 - Altmer Templar AR 26 - Dunmer Dragonknight AR 18 - Altmer Sorcerer AR 20 - Khajiit Dragonknight AR 18
    (+3 not worth mentioning, yet)
  • NBrookus
    NBrookus
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    For an aggressive tanky dps melee playstyle, Bloodspawn/Seducer/Bloodthorn. 5 heavy +1+1, tri-food, all spell damage enchants. Fully buffed you hit over 2800 spell damage while at capped resists and can still functionally permablock. You can probably run blue food with it if you prefer, or use witchmothers while you get used to the regen hit in no CP.

    Desert Rose theoretically gives better magicka regen, but 1.5 million AP spent and I still don't have a second shield... and the first one is well-fitted. So I haven't tried it.

    Bloodthorn is underrated. It's cheap to get and the stam return is very useful for DKs. It's more reliable than Syrabane, IMO, plus Syrabane doesn't give you stam.
  • SneaK
    SneaK
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    NBrookus wrote: »
    For an aggressive tanky dps melee playstyle, Bloodspawn/Seducer/Bloodthorn. 5 heavy +1+1, tri-food, all spell damage enchants. Fully buffed you hit over 2800 spell damage while at capped resists and can still functionally permablock. You can probably run blue food with it if you prefer, or use witchmothers while you get used to the regen hit in no CP.

    Desert Rose theoretically gives better magicka regen, but 1.5 million AP spent and I still don't have a second shield... and the first one is well-fitted. So I haven't tried it.

    Bloodthorn is underrated. It's cheap to get and the stam return is very useful for DKs. It's more reliable than Syrabane, IMO, plus Syrabane doesn't give you stam.

    There is also Magicka Furnace, never tried it but looks good on paper..
    "IMO"
    Aldmeri Dominion
    Bosmer Nightblade AR 32 - Altmer Templar AR 26 - Dunmer Dragonknight AR 18 - Altmer Sorcerer AR 20 - Khajiit Dragonknight AR 18
    (+3 not worth mentioning, yet)
  • apostate9
    apostate9
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    I like Grothdar+Rattlecage+Martial Knowledge. Playing with it now, lotta fun.
  • Hutch679
    Hutch679
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    apostate9 wrote: »
    I like Grothdar+Rattlecage+Martial Knowledge. Playing with it now, lotta fun.

    For non-cp campaign? Lol how quick are you out of resources once you get hit by a increased cost poison?
  • Quickline
    Quickline
    NBrookus wrote: »
    For an aggressive tanky dps melee playstyle, Bloodspawn/Seducer/Bloodthorn. 5 heavy +1+1, tri-food, all spell damage enchants. Fully buffed you hit over 2800 spell damage while at capped resists and can still functionally permablock. You can probably run blue food with it if you prefer, or use witchmothers while you get used to the regen hit in no CP.

    Desert Rose theoretically gives better magicka regen, but 1.5 million AP spent and I still don't have a second shield... and the first one is well-fitted. So I haven't tried it.

    Bloodthorn is underrated. It's cheap to get and the stam return is very useful for DKs. It's more reliable than Syrabane, IMO, plus Syrabane doesn't give you stam.

    Bloodthorn sounds absolutaly great, in combination with blackrose and skoria for some burst or with bloodspawn for even more sustain it could work pretty good!
  • NBrookus
    NBrookus
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    SneaK wrote: »
    NBrookus wrote: »
    For an aggressive tanky dps melee playstyle, Bloodspawn/Seducer/Bloodthorn. 5 heavy +1+1, tri-food, all spell damage enchants. Fully buffed you hit over 2800 spell damage while at capped resists and can still functionally permablock. You can probably run blue food with it if you prefer, or use witchmothers while you get used to the regen hit in no CP.

    Desert Rose theoretically gives better magicka regen, but 1.5 million AP spent and I still don't have a second shield... and the first one is well-fitted. So I haven't tried it.

    Bloodthorn is underrated. It's cheap to get and the stam return is very useful for DKs. It's more reliable than Syrabane, IMO, plus Syrabane doesn't give you stam.

    There is also Magicka Furnace, never tried it but looks good on paper..

    I farmed it; never got around to trying it. You have to run at least 40k magicka for the 5 piece to be worthwhile, and what DK has that much magicka in no CP?

    @Quickline Let me introduce you to: http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildEditor
    Put your builds on paper before buying/farming and trying them. Anything with an RNG to proc still has to be tested in the field, but you can weed out stuff that just won't work.
  • Lexxypwns
    Lexxypwns
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    IMO, bloodthorn is a must or I can't see you managing Stam and magika.

    Alteration mastery is a good choice since it reduces ulti cost... Battle roar scales off the base cost so ulti cost reduction is a boon, this is why bats is such a great tool, gives back much more than any ulti at its cost.

    I think skoria or groth instead of Bloodspawn, proc sets are very strong in no-CP at present since its much harder to get the crit you'd have in a CP campaign the nerf didn't hurt them so bad.

    That's probably what I'd start with and work from there. But you may lack damage, though I think you can get away with this.
  • Quickline
    Quickline
    I googled bloodthorn and I dont really understand what "direct damage" means? No dots? Just the first hit when I cast the dot?
    So whip = direct damage, burning embers = only the first hit, talons = only the first hit?
    Edited by Quickline on 12 April 2017 17:06
  • Quickline
    Quickline
    NBrookus wrote: »
    SneaK wrote: »
    NBrookus wrote: »
    For an aggressive tanky dps melee playstyle, Bloodspawn/Seducer/Bloodthorn. 5 heavy +1+1, tri-food, all spell damage enchants. Fully buffed you hit over 2800 spell damage while at capped resists and can still functionally permablock. You can probably run blue food with it if you prefer, or use witchmothers while you get used to the regen hit in no CP.

    Desert Rose theoretically gives better magicka regen, but 1.5 million AP spent and I still don't have a second shield... and the first one is well-fitted. So I haven't tried it.

    Bloodthorn is underrated. It's cheap to get and the stam return is very useful for DKs. It's more reliable than Syrabane, IMO, plus Syrabane doesn't give you stam.

    There is also Magicka Furnace, never tried it but looks good on paper..

    I farmed it; never got around to trying it. You have to run at least 40k magicka for the 5 piece to be worthwhile, and what DK has that much magicka in no CP?

    @Quickline Let me introduce you to: http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildEditor
    Put your builds on paper before buying/farming and trying them. Anything with an RNG to proc still has to be tested in the field, but you can weed out stuff that just won't work.

    Thank you so much for this tip
  • NBrookus
    NBrookus
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    Whip, embers, talons, fossilize, deep breath, basically. Also the light/heavy attacks you weave in. Volatile armor doesn't proc it. I'm not sure about engulfing flames. It only procs every 5 seconds, so as long as you are attacking people, it's pretty reliable without having to worry about exactly what skills you are casting.

    OTOH, if you go on full defense, it won't work, unlike sets that give resources based on getting hit. So like I said, it suits an aggressive playstyle. If you see a stack of players and just have to dunk them, this might be the set for you. :)

    I haven't tried Wyrd Tree in no CP land. It was kinda "meh" for me -- good but not better than my old CP setup -- but given how OP poisons and siege are in no CP it might shine brighter there.
  • raasdal
    raasdal
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    Quickline wrote: »
    I googled bloodthorn and I dont really understand what "direct damage" means? No dots? Just the first hit when I cast the dot?
    So whip = direct damage, burning embers = only the first hit, talons = only the first hit?

    Direct Damage mean any damage, that is not considered a DoT.

    Burning embers will proc on initial onetime damage, but not the dots. Same for Engulfing flames. If the DoT does not have a specified damage on hit, seperated out from the DoT, it will not proc it.
    PC - EU
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  • Reefo
    Reefo
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    Bloodspawn + thunderbug + syrabane

    Extra sustain vs mag (more wings)
    Proc damage vs Stam
    Sustain from bloodspawn

    Maybe? This is a theorycrafting thread after all.
  • Argawarga
    Argawarga
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    Would magicka damage blocked by Shield Wall and it's morphs (s/b ultimate) cause Syrabane to proc?

    Could this be a viable part of a strategy for resource management?
  • Stridig
    Stridig
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    I like 5 Black Rose, 5 Desert Rose, and 2 Grothdar. The sustain is really good. I can afford all spell damage glyphs on jewelry because it's easy to run with low regen.
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  • iseko
    iseko
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    5 seducer, 5 alteration, bloodspawn. double s&b

    5HA 2LA. Full spell dmg on glyphs. Atro mundus.

    Rotate tripots and ulti for sustain. Then just the skills... Its a pain to choose but something alobg the lines off:
    Flame lash, engulfing, fossilize, structured entropy, mist and leap

    Cdb, inhale, talons, igneous shield, reactive armor, bats.

    You could switch something out for burning embers/wings. Personal preference.
  • NBrookus
    NBrookus
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    Reefo wrote: »
    Bloodspawn + thunderbug + syrabane

    Extra sustain vs mag (more wings)
    Proc damage vs Stam
    Sustain from bloodspawn

    Maybe? This is a theorycrafting thread after all.

    Did thunderbug for a while as part of a full aoe build. You can do better; it doesn't do much damage. It mostly just annoys stam sorcs.
  • Lexxypwns
    Lexxypwns
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    iseko wrote: »
    5 seducer, 5 alteration, bloodspawn. double s&b

    5HA 2LA. Full spell dmg on glyphs. Atro mundus.

    Rotate tripots and ulti for sustain. Then just the skills... Its a pain to choose but something alobg the lines off:
    Flame lash, engulfing, fossilize, structured entropy, mist and leap

    Cdb, inhale, talons, igneous shield, reactive armor, bats.

    You could switch something out for burning embers/wings. Personal preference.

    Imo, major prophecy and thief are both basically required for no-CP pvp. Without the native crit bonus from CP you'll lack burst damage otherwise. Just my opinion though.
  • iseko
    iseko
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    Lexxypwns wrote: »
    iseko wrote: »
    5 seducer, 5 alteration, bloodspawn. double s&b

    5HA 2LA. Full spell dmg on glyphs. Atro mundus.

    Rotate tripots and ulti for sustain. Then just the skills... Its a pain to choose but something alobg the lines off:
    Flame lash, engulfing, fossilize, structured entropy, mist and leap

    Cdb, inhale, talons, igneous shield, reactive armor, bats.

    You could switch something out for burning embers/wings. Personal preference.

    Imo, major prophecy and thief are both basically required for no-CP pvp. Without the native crit bonus from CP you'll lack burst damage otherwise. Just my opinion though.

    Yes and no. The biggest problem I have is againdt shield stackers. Crit does not help at all there.

    Secondly, a lot of people (not all like in cp campaign) have at least 500 impen even in azura. Reducing that crit dmg by a fair amount.

    Crit is handy for heals though but not for increased dmg (imho). Again, mostly with shield stackers in mind.

    Thirdly, even with 2 sustain sets like seducer and alteration sustain a mDK in 5 HA is a pain in azura. That extra regen from atro helps a lot.

    I always try and do the math and then test it out in pvp how it feels. The atro feels better when im fighting compared to thief.

    This is specific for in azura though.

    Edit: bloodthorn never seemed that advantageous to me but I never tried it. The fifth piece only gives the equivalent of 200 regen and only when hitting someone with direct dmg. Could be wrong though. Like I said never tried it.
    Edited by iseko on 13 April 2017 06:40
  • Quickline
    Quickline
    Btw, is heavy armor dead for magicka dks? How hard will the nerf hit us?
    Edited by Quickline on 22 April 2017 09:11
  • psychotic13
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    Quickline wrote: »
    Btw, is heavy armor dead for magicka dks? How hard will the nerf hit us?

    I'm going to say yes, I think it was a 42% nerf to constitution. I'm still going to run the same set up (seducer/BSW/skoria) but going to switch to light armor. May even use alteration mastery over seducer
  • Izaki
    Izaki
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    Tava's + Blood Spawn... I think.
    @ Izaki #PCEU
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  • psychotic13
    psychotic13
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    Tava's + Blood Spawn... I think.

    I never liked Tavas for pvp, don't have space for shuffle need them skills slot
  • murdomac101
    murdomac101
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    i've been using 5 x seducers (HA), Grothdar (1 med, 1 light) all magic enchants, and 5 piece silk of the sun (DW, 1hw/s) with all spell dmg enchants).

    the silk of the sun adds 400 Spell Damage to your Flame Damage abilities - if my (very) basic understanding is right, is this not a massive spell dmg boost given almost all my spells are flame dmg?
  • bg22
    bg22
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    i've been using 5 x seducers (HA), Grothdar (1 med, 1 light) all magic enchants, and 5 piece silk of the sun (DW, 1hw/s) with all spell dmg enchants).

    the silk of the sun adds 400 Spell Damage to your Flame Damage abilities - if my (very) basic understanding is right, is this not a massive spell dmg boost given almost all my spells are flame dmg?

    Yes. 2nd to only BSW really.
  • Durham
    Durham
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    Just hold off making anything gold until after the nerfs .... Oops sorry I mean patch notes... or next update
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