I cant believe i didnt do this sooner..

magictucktuck

So I refused to wear heavy armor this whole meta because i like the movement and the damage and i just like the play style. It didn't appeal to me to stand there and hold block and and run around all slow.

Well yesterday i said screw it, zerg mentality is pretty bad on console, I got on my stamplar and i golded out a full set of reactive and two piece blood spawn and put on some agility jewelry with s&b with a maelstrom two hander. Now i was planning on running max health stamina recovery food. I started playing and i could still burst people down, almost as easily, I didn't have the one shot damage but anyone in medium or light was only 2 hits, if they were not a very good player. I had 0 sustain issue's unless 5+ people started banging on me or a couple really good players, even then is was not bad. then i realized i never switched my food and was running just bi stat max health max stamina and there was no need for the recovery food with like 1200 recovery.

I complain about the cheese builds and heavy armor a lot ( although i don't consider this a cheese build with 0 procs but it feels kinda cheesy just because with 0 change in skill I have better sustain, almost the same damage, and super tanky ), but i think I'm going to rock it for a while, there is night and day difference.

Waffennacht

magictucktuck wrote: »

So I refused to wear heavy armor this whole meta because i like the movement and the damage and i just like the play style. It didn't appeal to me to stand there and hold block and and run around all slow.

Well yesterday i said screw it, zerg mentality is pretty bad on console, I got on my stamplar and i golded out a full set of reactive and two piece blood spawn and put on some agility jewelry with s&b with a maelstrom two hander. Now i was planning on running max health stamina recovery food. I started playing and i could still burst people down, almost as easily, I didn't have the one shot damage but anyone in medium or light was only 2 hits, if they were not a very good player. I had 0 sustain issue's unless 5+ people started banging on me or a couple really good players, even then is was not bad. then i realized i never switched my food and was running just bi stat max health max stamina and there was no need for the recovery food with like 1200 recovery.

I complain about the cheese builds and heavy armor a lot ( although i don't consider this a cheese build with 0 procs but it feels kinda cheesy just because with 0 change in skill I have better sustain, almost the same damage, and super tanky ), but i think I'm going to rock it for a while, there is night and day difference.

I have a clip of myself getting DESTROYED within 2 secs. Not outta stealth, just WHAM dead.

I was in medium armor

Never had it happen in heavy.

Im stickin with heavy

With so many undodgeable/unblockable moves, wards and or heavy has become a must imo

Hell I'd stay heavy even without wrath or the resource return

magictucktuck

HAHA it is noticeable, very noticeable how tanky i am, and like you said i cannot be one shot. but with no constitution or maybe even when no CP comes for BGs (if that happens) i will probably switch back. But i must admit I'm having a lot of fun!

Brrrofski

You don't need reactive.

Swap it for ravager. You're still tanky and your damage is crazy high.

magictucktuck

@Brrrofski I almost did that, which would be nuts because my damage is already high (coming from medium armor even) but i wanted to fend off small zergs. But I do have a set of ravager just not gold, I might try it out.

THEDKEXPERIENCE

Switching to 5 heavy armor changed my life, and I run the least cheesy set imaginable in Julianos, 2 purposely mismatched monster pieces, Magus and Willpower. 49k magic on my Templar with 30k in each resist. When I was in light it was half that and I still do about 95% of the same DPS. It's not even a contest nowadays.

Brrrofski

magictucktuck wrote: »

@Brrrofski I almost did that, which would be nuts because my damage is already high (coming from medium armor even) but i wanted to fend off small zergs. But I do have a set of ravager just not gold, I might try it out.

I'm using it with bone pirate and the new drink. Really strong setup.

Minno

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

Switching to 5 heavy armor changed my life, and I run the least cheesy set imaginable in Julianos, 2 purposely mismatched monster pieces, Magus and Willpower. 49k magic on my Templar with 30k in each resist. When I was in light it was half that and I still do about 95% of the same DPS. It's not even a contest nowadays.

Though with LA, you get around 15% mag cost reduction and around 20% regen . In terms of CP, that equates to 80-90 points in magician and 73ish points in mag CP Regen.

As a Breton Templar LA user, 10 points in magician puts me at the same cost reduction as a HA user. Those 80-90 points go towards me utilizing Stam cost reduction to utilize dodge roll, break free, Sprint and stamina Regen to offset the magplar weakness; low stam + no mobility.

The downside is that you have no armor. But the upside is that with 5 light I get a 9.8k dmg shield which completely shuts out sharpened/crit. Running vampire is suicide since your Shield is taking unnecessary dmg from sources easily available. In HA vamp works better since your armor is helping to reduce the overall dmg on you, not to mention boosting your health to keep yourself from burst deaths.

It really comes down to how comfortable you are with the playstyle you are in. Currently, LA/MA is a big challenge to play compared to HA, but as long as you can move in PvP, the difference is in how you play.

magictucktuck

Minno wrote: »

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

Switching to 5 heavy armor changed my life, and I run the least cheesy set imaginable in Julianos, 2 purposely mismatched monster pieces, Magus and Willpower. 49k magic on my Templar with 30k in each resist. When I was in light it was half that and I still do about 95% of the same DPS. It's not even a contest nowadays.

Though with LA, you get around 15% mag cost reduction and around 20% regen . In terms of CP, that equates to 80-90 points in magician and 73ish points in mag CP Regen.

As a Breton Templar LA user, 10 points in magician puts me at the same cost reduction as a HA user. Those 80-90 points go towards me utilizing Stam cost reduction to utilize dodge roll, break free, Sprint and stamina Regen to offset the magplar weakness; low stam + no mobility.

The downside is that you have no armor. But the upside is that with 5 light I get a 9.8k dmg shield which completely shuts out sharpened/crit. Running vampire is suicide since your Shield is taking unnecessary dmg from sources easily available. In HA vamp works better since your armor is helping to reduce the overall dmg on you, not to mention boosting your health to keep yourself from burst deaths.

It really comes down to how comfortable you are with the playstyle you are in. Currently, LA/MA is a big challenge to play compared to HA, but as long as you can move in PvP, the difference is in how you play.

I agree with your other points but the cost reduction and recovery are pretty much negated, i used to feel the same way towards medium armor or light armor. But the sustain in heavy is so good that the recovery doesn't mean much.

olsborg

Yea, its like playing the same game, dmg wise and all, cept medium is like playing on Insane difficulty and heavy armor is like Eeasymode.

Durham

No such thing as cheese builds they ZOS created..if there was a way to run 4 proc sets I would run it. ZOS created them and as long as others run them I will... Your an idiot if you refuse to run best in slot because of some gammer pride lol ... your just proud + dead.... If you feel something is broke run the crap and they will be forced to change it...all types of proc sets were nerfed for this very reason over the past 3 years...

Waffennacht

Durham wrote: »

No such thing as cheese builds they ZOS created..if there was a way to run 4 proc sets I would run it. ZOS created them and as long as others run them I will... Your an idiot if you refuse to run best in slot because of some gammer pride lol ... your just proud + dead.... If you feel something is broke run the crap and they will be forced to change it...all types of proc sets were nerfed for this very reason over the past 3 years...

Or you can run a counter build and get like 100 "nerf this because my unimaginative copy and paste build just isn't winning! Whaaa!" threads...

QuebraRegra

that might explain why even in BWB there are some players tanking the damage from 7+ players and laughing it off for the most part, and with ridiculous sustain.

Seriously needs to be addressed for out-of-wack-balance.

That said, I will delete this game before I ever run HEAVY armor!

magictucktuck

Durham wrote: »

No such thing as cheese builds they ZOS created..if there was a way to run 4 proc sets I would run it. ZOS created them and as long as others run them I will... Your an idiot if you refuse to run best in slot because of some gammer pride lol ... your just proud + dead.... If you feel something is broke run the crap and they will be forced to change it...all types of proc sets were nerfed for this very reason over the past 3 years...

Well cheesy would be an opinion. and the proc sets are fairly new, not 3 years old. at least the proc meta. I also dont agree its best in slot anymore with the nerfs, its only good against potatoes and unsuspecting light/medium armor folks.

the big reason for me switching to heavy was to be one of the guys having a zerg bashing on them for a minute or two before dying and taking out a few with me. fighting against even numbers or 1v1 or 1vX (to a reasonable amount) is not a problem. its the getting steamrolled because when someone sees you they wont fight you they will hide or block until there zerg gets there that i am combating.

edit: @Durham

magictucktuck

QuebraRegra wrote: »

that might explain why even in BWB there are some players tanking the damage from 7+ players and laughing it off for the most part, and with ridiculous sustain.

Seriously needs to be addressed for out-of-wack-balance.

That said, I will delete this game before I ever run HEAVY armor!

lol i used to feel the same way about never running it.. but i must admit it is fun, but i do still liek the medium armor play style more, faster paced. Ill be back from the dark side soon enough. (hopefully)

Minno

magictucktuck wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

Switching to 5 heavy armor changed my life, and I run the least cheesy set imaginable in Julianos, 2 purposely mismatched monster pieces, Magus and Willpower. 49k magic on my Templar with 30k in each resist. When I was in light it was half that and I still do about 95% of the same DPS. It's not even a contest nowadays.

Though with LA, you get around 15% mag cost reduction and around 20% regen . In terms of CP, that equates to 80-90 points in magician and 73ish points in mag CP Regen.

As a Breton Templar LA user, 10 points in magician puts me at the same cost reduction as a HA user. Those 80-90 points go towards me utilizing Stam cost reduction to utilize dodge roll, break free, Sprint and stamina Regen to offset the magplar weakness; low stam + no mobility.

The downside is that you have no armor. But the upside is that with 5 light I get a 9.8k dmg shield which completely shuts out sharpened/crit. Running vampire is suicide since your Shield is taking unnecessary dmg from sources easily available. In HA vamp works better since your armor is helping to reduce the overall dmg on you, not to mention boosting your health to keep yourself from burst deaths.

It really comes down to how comfortable you are with the playstyle you are in. Currently, LA/MA is a big challenge to play compared to HA, but as long as you can move in PvP, the difference is in how you play.

I agree with your other points but the cost reduction and recovery are pretty much negated, i used to feel the same way towards medium armor or light armor. But the sustain in heavy is so good that the recovery doesn't mean much.

Well in HA you are restricted in sharpened and regen mundas/enchant selections. Mostly to recoup regen/penetration lost from not running 5 light.

The bonus of LA is that you can use any weapon trait, defend against the spinners/crit meta via shields, burst heals and have the Regen you need to have consistent ability use.

HA really shines if you have no mobility, getting hit, and delaying your burst till max Wraith, with regen healing.

The cost/Regen can be achieved with either, but with LA you can dedicate resources towards mobility to offset the lack of defenses without giving up too much penetration/offense. That is why LA sorcs are still the main LA meta, they have a escape tool, can stack max mag, and recoup resources while healing by crit attacks.
Templars are low in this order since they don't have the stam Regen, virtually no mobility, and have a "protect a house" mentality for their skills.

Aside from stamina gaining dmg+survivability in HA, I'd say the armors currently are set to how you want to play. Want to rush in? Pick HA. Want to range but use protection on bursts? Pick LA. Want to run/stealth faster and dodge most attacks? Pick MA.

magictucktuck

Minno wrote: »

magictucktuck wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

Switching to 5 heavy armor changed my life, and I run the least cheesy set imaginable in Julianos, 2 purposely mismatched monster pieces, Magus and Willpower. 49k magic on my Templar with 30k in each resist. When I was in light it was half that and I still do about 95% of the same DPS. It's not even a contest nowadays.

Though with LA, you get around 15% mag cost reduction and around 20% regen . In terms of CP, that equates to 80-90 points in magician and 73ish points in mag CP Regen.

As a Breton Templar LA user, 10 points in magician puts me at the same cost reduction as a HA user. Those 80-90 points go towards me utilizing Stam cost reduction to utilize dodge roll, break free, Sprint and stamina Regen to offset the magplar weakness; low stam + no mobility.

The downside is that you have no armor. But the upside is that with 5 light I get a 9.8k dmg shield which completely shuts out sharpened/crit. Running vampire is suicide since your Shield is taking unnecessary dmg from sources easily available. In HA vamp works better since your armor is helping to reduce the overall dmg on you, not to mention boosting your health to keep yourself from burst deaths.

It really comes down to how comfortable you are with the playstyle you are in. Currently, LA/MA is a big challenge to play compared to HA, but as long as you can move in PvP, the difference is in how you play.

I agree with your other points but the cost reduction and recovery are pretty much negated, i used to feel the same way towards medium armor or light armor. But the sustain in heavy is so good that the recovery doesn't mean much.

Well in HA you are restricted in sharpened and regen mundas/enchant selections. Mostly to recoup regen/penetration lost from not running 5 light.

The bonus of LA is that you can use any weapon trait, defend against the spinners/crit meta via shields, burst heals and have the Regen you need to have consistent ability use.

HA really shines if you have no mobility, getting hit, and delaying your burst till max Wraith, with regen healing.

The cost/Regen can be achieved with either, but with LA you can dedicate resources towards mobility to offset the lack of defenses without giving up too much penetration/offense. That is why LA sorcs are still the main LA meta, they have a escape tool, can stack max mag, and recoup resources while healing by crit attacks.
Templars are low in this order since they don't have the stam Regen, virtually no mobility, and have a "protect a house" mentality for their skills.

Aside from stamina gaining dmg+survivability in HA, I'd say the armors currently are set to how you want to play. Want to rush in? Pick HA. Want to range but use protection on bursts? Pick LA. Want to run/stealth faster and dodge most attacks? Pick MA.

definitely i agree with the mobility that's why i like light and medium, but aside from not doge rolling like i did in medium armor i can constantly use abilities and not run out of resources. but i suppose I'm playing smart, because with medium and light i did ok on resources also unless under a lot of pressure.

the shields i get from a sorc point of view, i wouldn't run heavy on my sorc.

but does anyone run any trait beside sharpened anyways? unless your a tank using defending. so i dont consider that a bonus, i never ran anything but sharpened on my med/light toons.

don't get me wrong I'm not against light or medium, they are my preferred play style, but the benefits from HA outweigh them so much right now that its almost pointless not to run HA. Now that's mostly coming from stamina point of view, as i wouldn't run it on my sorc, but magicka templar and DK are easy kills in light armor. MagBlades (sadly) are not seen much but i can imagine playing mine in heavy armor

THEDKEXPERIENCE

I am a vamp but on top of heavy armor I also run all of the following for defense.

- mist form
- breath of life
- harness magicka
- retreating manuevers
- invisibility and immovable pots
- the Templar recovery and extra armor circle thingy
- sword and board

Due to all of that, especially due to my uncrittable shield, I am able to avoid using impen at all. Focusing my traits into purely offensive stuff.

In a nutshell I've got a character that simply cannot be one shot, usually takes 5 or more people to kill, and still might have the strongest Jesus Beam on XBox.

And it's all because of heavy armor.

Waffennacht

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

I am a vamp but on top of heavy armor I also run all of the following for defense.

- mist form
- breath of life
- harness magicka
- retreating manuevers
- invisibility and immovable pots
- the Templar recovery and extra armor circle thingy
- sword and board

Due to all of that, especially due to my uncrittable shield, I am able to avoid using impen at all. Focusing my traits into purely offensive stuff.

In a nutshell I've got a character that simply cannot be one shot, usually takes 5 or more people to kill, and still might have the strongest Jesus Beam on XBox.

And it's all because of heavy armor.

I'm gonna run into you and will butt heads for an hour and then decide to walk away lol

THEDKEXPERIENCE

Haha. It's happened before.