Miat's PVP Alerts just got updated! Now in 3D!

Smolt

Isn't being watchful of enemy behavior part of any game? If the add-on does that for you...
They took months to fix it when this add-on basically removed stealth from the game, hopefully this is handled more quickly. It's a good thing this add-on is very public, as sunlight is the best disinfectant. It's not Miat or whoever's fault really, if they didn't someone else would have taken advantage of the system which allows this. Thanks for making this a well known issue so it will be fixed sooner. Please zos, address this and let us know if you endorse this or if it will be fixed like the last version of this add-on.

Kas

i agree, the add-on is still too strong in it's current state. hwoever, part of it, is due to problems with eso.
i find it MUCH more reliable on stuff like incoming cfrags than the actual game. Not because I'm too dumb/distracted to see them, but because the visual effects are just bugging out in 1 of 50 cases.

Same with the CC tracker and stuff like enemy negates. If the visual cues of the base game were more reliable, this add-on wasn't what it is right now: way too much of an advantage. I use it, because I don't want to play at a disadvantage (don't tell me everyone should just stop, I netiher want to be at a disadvantage for 1 in 1000 fights), but I'd rather not have this symptom in the game.

It's even more problematic, that it notifies you about stuff happening in your back. That stuff just shouldn't be possible via the game's add-on API. As long as it is, I want a piece of it, though.

Imho the solution can never be cries to "ban the add-on" it has to be "change the add-on api again" (and fix problems that make such add-ons necessary in the first place)

Biro123

I don't use it - so that when Kas kills me I can blame it on the addon rather than skill :-p

Seriously though, I installed it yesterday - played for a couple of hours and found the info on what's being capped etc really good and really useful.. Instantly turned off the kill lists and KoS lists etc - they just took up too much space. Don't see the point in the counter of people in the area - only seems to work based on who you mouseover. But the warnings on incoming... It really does explain why so many of my frags - on my frag-focussed build get dodged - especially py people in the middle of a zerg side-on to me who just suddenly dodge when there was no chance of them seeing it coming.

Then I uninstalled it.. on my other toon I kept getting kicked as soon as I logged in due to 'too many messages' sent. Was fine after removing. Re-added - problem came back... so re-removed. So at least I can still blame not using the addon rather than lack of skill for dying :-)

Dorrino

Minalan wrote: »

Here's what the addon does:

Any projectile thrown at Miat results in one button press and an instant dodge roll.

It doesn't matter whether the projectile is in front of him, way behind him, or up above where he can't see. The addon gives him warning, and he handles it.

Players that can never be surprised by projectile attacks is complete BS, and @ZOS_ChipHilseberg needs to remove it. Period. No projectile notifications in PVP. Fix your DAMN API already.

The key part is still - 'he handles it':) Even though i can relate to mag sorcs frustration on reduced effectiveness of the frags (sorry, Minalan!), at the current state of mag sorcs in pvp i consider it fair.

Kas wrote: »

i find it MUCH more reliable on stuff like incoming cfrags than the actual game. Not because I'm too dumb/distracted to see them, but because the visual effects are just bugging out in 1 of 50 cases.

Exactly! If we wouldn't have spammable ranged cc abilities and/or if all those abilities had reliable and noticeable visual cues where would be no use of this addon's feature.

But, as you said, the addon provides a reliable way to actually see those attacks, unlike the base game. So here we are:)

Biro123 wrote: »

Then I uninstalled it.. on my other toon I kept getting kicked as soon as I logged in due to 'too many messages' sent. Was fine after removing. Re-added - problem came back... so re-removed. So at least I can still blame not using the addon rather than lack of skill for dying :-)

Please try the last 2.39 version. I have a feedback that this problem was fixed.

KILLING4ALIVING

KILLING4ALIVING wrote: »

I just updated it and had to uninstall it cause every time I logged in I immediately got dropped form the server for Error 318 Excessive Spamming

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/334138/dropped-from-server-as-soon-as-i-login-for-spamming-resolved-addon-issue#latest

Dorrino wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

Then I uninstalled it.. on my other toon I kept getting kicked as soon as I logged in due to 'too many messages' sent. Was fine after removing. Re-added - problem came back... so re-removed. So at least I can still blame not using the addon rather than lack of skill for dying :-)

Please try the last 2.39 version. I have a feedback that this problem was fixed.

Yes, I just tried it and I am no longer getting the Error 318

Dorrino

KILLING4ALIVING wrote: »

Yes, I just tried it and I am no longer getting the Error 318

Really happy to hear that. Wasn't easy to fix since i wasn't able to reproduce it on my pc.

apostate9

Vizier wrote: »

So when is this ____ addon going to be considered a cheat/exploit by ZOS? Seriously. Gives you the numbers and names of players in stealth around you?

ZOS HOW? HOW can you let this continue? @ZOS_GinaBruno

Actually, it doesn't. So...the hand-wringing and gnashing of teeth might have been a bit excessive.

KILLING4ALIVING

Dorrino wrote: »

KILLING4ALIVING wrote: »

Yes, I just tried it and I am no longer getting the Error 318

Really happy to hear that. Wasn't easy to fix since i wasn't able to reproduce it on my pc.

Thanks for your work and dedication in getting it resolved so quickly

WhiteMage

Mr. Miat doesn't seem very popular here, but his rebuttals to all these knee-jerk sky-falling rage-screams are calm and logical.

I'm the type of player who would benefit the most from Miat's old PvP Alerts, and I did use it. My preferred playstyle is roaming solo 1vXing the average randoms I come across and having good duels with likeminded soloers. Invariably I have come across a particular kind of player: the solo "ganker" hiding in stealth. Due to their builds, in a fair fight I am FAR better prepared to win. We all know what kind of player/build this is: a stamina class, typically NB, with a bow mainbar, hiding in stealth, at best specced for full damage, at worst wearing mismatched sets. The strategy is often to fire off a snipe, or 2, or 5. As many as it takes for the thing to die. If it's not dead, snipe! If it's coming at me, snipe! If it's on top of me: if I have not been stunned, snipe! Else, dodgeroll 3 times.

Whether due to skill, knowledge, or build, these guys don't have a snowball's chance in hell, nor a farts chance in a tornado, to fight off anyone who has ever 1vXed. Their only hope is to open with a high damage stun (stealth snipe) and then land enough damage before the target can recover and defend himself. I don't need an addon to tell me I'm getting sniped at: I can hear it. It is merely convenient for me.

I think the biggest objection to the addon comes when these gankers lose a kill to another average player whom isn't good enough to defend themselves without it. It's already frustrating enough when people dodge all your bow attacks (I tried to make a sNB based on bow light attacks. No, it didn't work.) I do empathize with you bow gankers, but I don't sympathize nor agree with you. I'd rather discuss why dodging is the counter to so many ranged attacks.

Oh, and this got me to thinking... attacks with a travel time probably actually instantly place a delayed DoT (like curse) with the duration based on distance to the target and the prescribed projectile velocity, and the hit coincides with the animation. Dodging then would, in effect, function as a purge of these specific kinds of "DoTs". That would explain the phenomenon that people report where shuffle seems to open a "dodge window." It actually just purges a travel-time ability DoT.

Biro123

Dorrino wrote: »

KILLING4ALIVING wrote: »

Yes, I just tried it and I am no longer getting the Error 318

Really happy to hear that. Wasn't easy to fix since i wasn't able to reproduce it on my pc.

Downloaded the latest today - Working for me too, now

mtwiggz

Keep up the good work @Dorrino

Dorrino

WhiteMage wrote: »

Oh, and this got me to thinking... attacks with a travel time probably actually instantly place a delayed DoT (like curse) with the duration based on distance to the target and the prescribed projectile velocity, and the hit coincides with the animation. Dodging then would, in effect, function as a purge of these specific kinds of "DoTs". That would explain the phenomenon that people report where shuffle seems to open a "dodge window." It actually just purges a travel-time ability DoT.

Very similar to this. Ranged attacked put a 'debuff' on you, when casted. I haven't specifically tested what exactly dodge does to the debuff, but your guess sound quite reasonable.

To all - thanks for all the comments. Good or bad:) Keep them coming.

Ankael07

I dont get the need for this particular addon. Is the game not 3d enough? Cant we see the castle in front of us without an icon?
If anything it could potentially block your sight of players on the walls when you fight from below.

Xsorus

Problem with this type of addon is you're forced to use it or you're at a huge disadvantage.

Kas

Ankael07 wrote: »

I dont get the need for this particular addon. Is the game not 3d enough? Cant we see the castle in front of us without an icon?
If anything it could potentially block your sight of players on the walls when you fight from below.

i've played a bit of solo IC yesterday (because i'm getting into a new char without fully leveled skilllines and need easy opponents to get things started). Seeing if your neighbor distract starts turning, right on your screen, is more useful than I thought. I would have missed that on many occasions if it hadn't been right in my face the moment it started

Turelus

Kas wrote: »

Ankael07 wrote: »

I dont get the need for this particular addon. Is the game not 3d enough? Cant we see the castle in front of us without an icon?
If anything it could potentially block your sight of players on the walls when you fight from below.

i've played a bit of solo IC yesterday (because i'm getting into a new char without fully leveled skilllines and need easy opponents to get things started). Seeing if your neighbor distract starts turning, right on your screen, is more useful than I thought. I would have missed that on many occasions if it hadn't been right in my face the moment it started

This has always been the advantage of the add-ons which take map info (keeps under attack etc) and place it on on a HUD.
Vanilla game the only way to gain info like that is to look at the map.

It's going to be interesting to see what this add-on can do in Arena and how much rage that brings. ZOS making it so you can't see flags to know when people are on them, but add-ons will likely tell that information before the map updates or you won't need to view the map.

cschwingeb14_ESO

Dorrino wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

Here's what the addon does:

Any projectile thrown at Miat results in one button press and an instant dodge roll.

It doesn't matter whether the projectile is in front of him, way behind him, or up above where he can't see. The addon gives him warning, and he handles it.

Players that can never be surprised by projectile attacks is complete BS, and @ZOS_ChipHilseberg needs to remove it. Period. No projectile notifications in PVP. Fix your DAMN API already.

The key part is still - 'he handles it':) Even though i can relate to mag sorcs frustration on reduced effectiveness of the frags (sorry, Minalan!), at the current state of mag sorcs in pvp i consider it fair.

And here we see that you don't care about balance at all, and are just grasping for as much advantage as you can. *You* consider it fair? What a laugh.

Projectiles have always been a higher risk, higher reward type of attack. This add-on greatly increases the risk.

I hope they brick your entire add-on.

Chilly-McFreeze

@Dorrino

God complex much? Who are you to decide what is fair and influence it in a manner that impacts so many peoples game experience?

rimmidimdim

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

@Dorrino

God complex much? Who are you to decide what is fair and influence it in a manner that impacts so many peoples game experience?

ZOS has decided, not the OP. Dorrino is making an add on that uses information that zos allows to be available to educated/smart/intuitive people.

How many player's out there have thier own mods and we don't even know it? And who knows what these add-ons they create and use do. Dorrino is at least showing us and allowing us access. Ty and cheers.

Derra

Minalan wrote: »

Here's what the addon does:

Any projectile thrown at Miat results in one button press and an instant dodge roll.

It doesn't matter whether the projectile is in front of him, way behind him, or up above where he can't see. The addon gives him warning, and he handles it.

Players that can never be surprised by projectile attacks is complete BS, and @ZOS_ChipHilseberg needs to remove it. Period. No projectile notifications in PVP. Fix your DAMN API already.

I´m actually rather enjoying that - as i almost exclusively use fire heavies.

People eventually get tired of the addon and don´t notice the frag when it comes because they get spammed by heavyattack so much.

Chilly-McFreeze

rimmidimdim wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

@Dorrino

God complex much? Who are you to decide what is fair and influence it in a manner that impacts so many peoples game experience?

ZOS has decided, not the OP. Dorrino is making an add on that uses information that zos allows to be available to educated/smart/intuitive people.

How many player's out there have thier own mods and we don't even know it? And who knows what these add-ons they create and use do. Dorrino is at least showing us and allowing us access. Ty and cheers.

Where has ZOS decided that a giant warning should pop up on your screen if someone charges a heavy attack from stealth at you? Stealth, a feature that ZOS decided to put in the game to NOT let you know if someone charges a heavy attack at you.

These are informations invisible to the player, only being gathered in the background - not supposed to give you an advantage. That a modder can access these infos and make them visible on screen is simply due to exploiting "bad" coding from ZOS.

I don't know if you can't see the difference or if it's an attempt to justify that this addon gives you informations/ advantages you should not have.

But I give it to you, finding that lines in zenis code and exploit them by making such an addon needs some education and knowledge. How intelligent you have to be to just use them is something else...

psychotic13

Basically cheating though lol, console is better for this exact reason

Dorrino

cschwingeb14_ESO wrote: »

And here we see that you don't care about balance at all, and are just grasping for as much advantage as you can. *You* consider it fair? What a laugh.

I don't obtain any exclusive advantage here. If everybody has advantage - nobody has.

I'm not sure how can you see that from the phrase that claims the notification balance a spec the forums are filled with complaints about.

cschwingeb14_ESO wrote: »

Projectiles have always been a higher risk, higher reward type of attack. This add-on greatly increases the risk.

I'm not sure what risks you're talking about besides being reflected by dk's scales. Elaborate pls.

cschwingeb14_ESO wrote: »

I hope they brick your entire add-on.

So because you don't like one feature out of ~10 in the addon, the feature which is one of the tiniest and less important of what the addon offers, you sincerely want the whole addon to stop working?:) This starts to feel like a personal harassment^_^

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

@Dorrino

God complex much? Who are you to decide what is fair and influence it in a manner that impacts so many peoples game experience?

I'm a player that wanted to have something in game interface. And i made it. And i shared it with everybody. If you disagree with me, i still consider the addon features great and worth having. Sorry about that.

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Where has ZOS decided that a giant warning should pop up on your screen if someone charges a heavy attack from stealth at you? Stealth, a feature that ZOS decided to put in the game to NOT let you know if someone charges a heavy attack at you.

When exactly zos decided that any of the addons available for the game has to be in it?

And, really, the addon does NOT show heavy attacks from stealth anymore. Read the description please.

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

These are informations invisible to the player, only being gathered in the background - not supposed to give you an advantage. That a modder can access these infos and make them visible on screen is simply due to exploiting "bad" coding from ZOS.

This is not true at all. There's no 'background' that is not supposed to be available to the addons. Anything the addons can 'see' was designed in this way. if an addon can know something - zos intentionally made it so the addon can know that. Consider it a pre-approval.

Now zos might not be aware of some derived information that can be obtained from that. That's what happened with stealth attacks and stealth detection in the first implementation of the addon. The addon used the information zos wanted the addons to have, but used it in unexpected and, ultimately undesirable way. So they changed what information is available to the addons.

It feels like some people are under impression that i somehow 'hack' the code, break it, and force it to do what i want (with a malicious intent no less:)).

What i really do, though is i see what the game provides to me and then, work with this information to represent it in a way i like. There's no hidden information that i uncover, there's no illegal techniques that i use. The information is already there. Intentionally provided by zos. I make it look different on the screen. That is all.

rimmidimdim

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

rimmidimdim wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

@Dorrino

God complex much? Who are you to decide what is fair and influence it in a manner that impacts so many peoples game experience?

ZOS has decided, not the OP. Dorrino is making an add on that uses information that zos allows to be available to educated/smart/intuitive people.

How many player's out there have thier own mods and we don't even know it? And who knows what these add-ons they create and use do. Dorrino is at least showing us and allowing us access. Ty and cheers.

Where has ZOS decided that a giant warning should pop up on your screen if someone charges a heavy attack from stealth at you? Stealth, a feature that ZOS decided to put in the game to NOT let you know if someone charges a heavy attack at you.

These are informations invisible to the player, only being gathered in the background - not supposed to give you an advantage. That a modder can access these infos and make them visible on screen is simply due to exploiting "bad" coding from ZOS.

I don't know if you can't see the difference or if it's an attempt to justify that this addon gives you informations/ advantages you should not have.

But I give it to you, finding that lines in zenis code and exploit them by making such an addon needs some education and knowledge. How intelligent you have to be to just use them is something else...

Lol. Well I have to be smart enough to install I guess.

Bad coding from ZOS. Call it whatever. Until ZOS "fix" this API or whatever smart people call it, if they do, have to use it cause I'm not smart enough to make my own.

Like I said, this add-on give dumb ass peeps access to sentient add ons. Now I'm smart!

Argawarga

Dorrino wrote: »

So, to the point. 'a heavy attack from behind' has distinct auditory cues, because the game, by design, INFORMS you about the attacks from all sides. The only difference between listening to the sounds and having a notification on your screen is just clarity.

This makes it sound like the add-on does the cognitive work of paying attention for the player.

Parsing out signals (specific auditory cues) from noise is a big part of situational awareness. If I understand you correctly, you're saying that the add-on distills batlefield noise into one clear and unambiguous signal. If we consider that cultivating situational awareness is a part of the challenge of playing the game, how is this any different from a bot which plays parts of the game for the player?

SodanTok

Argawarga wrote: »

Dorrino wrote: »

So, to the point. 'a heavy attack from behind' has distinct auditory cues, because the game, by design, INFORMS you about the attacks from all sides. The only difference between listening to the sounds and having a notification on your screen is just clarity.

This makes it sound like the add-on does the cognitive work of paying attention for the player.

Parsing out signals (specific auditory cues) from noise is a big part of situational awareness. If I understand you correctly, you're saying that the add-on distills batlefield noise into one clear and unambiguous signal. If we consider that cultivating situational awareness is a part of the challenge of playing the game, how is this any different from a bot which plays parts of the game for the player?

That is the best part about it. He will tell you how not everyone is great at listening and so people, that are, have advantage and that is unfair. So he is helping everyone that wasnt blessed in life by money for best HW and best body parts to make PVP fair a better place for everyone! Then he waits for applause and photo shoots and removes himself to his chamber, probably to plan another charitable work, like giving every homeless person some palaces, so they can live in luxury like rich people.

Argawarga

sodantokb16_ESO wrote: »

That is the best part about it. He will tell you how not everyone is great at listening and so people, that are, have advantage and that is unfair. So he is helping everyone that wasnt blessed in life by money for best HW and best body parts to make PVP fair a better place for everyone! Then he waits for applause and photo shoots and removes himself to his chamber, probably to plan another charitable work, like giving every homeless person some palaces, so they can live in luxury like rich people.

Preface: I'm still undecided on how I feel about this add-on.

If that's the argument though where does one draw the line? You'd be right in pointing out that every person has advantages related to their ability, but isn't that what games and sport are all about? If I'm visually impaired can I build an add-on that targets enemies beyond a certain range? This logic would seem to say so.

SodanTok

Argawarga wrote: »

sodantokb16_ESO wrote: »

That is the best part about it. He will tell you how not everyone is great at listening and so people, that are, have advantage and that is unfair. So he is helping everyone that wasnt blessed in life by money for best HW and best body parts to make PVP fair a better place for everyone! Then he waits for applause and photo shoots and removes himself to his chamber, probably to plan another charitable work, like giving every homeless person some palaces, so they can live in luxury like rich people.

Preface: I'm still undecided on how I feel about this add-on.

If that's the argument though where does one draw the line? You'd be right in pointing out that every person has advantages related to their ability, but isn't that what games and sport are all about? If I'm visually impaired can I build an add-on that targets enemies beyond a certain range? This logic would seem to say so.

You mean in general? You dont draw lines and you let people's skill (or lack of it, including stuff like being impaired) solve itself.
But in this thread and with his addon? He chooses what the line should be and then he draws it. Nobody elses decides anything. Except ZoS, they can decide if they rewoke his right for deciding.

Cathexis

@Dorrino

Then i misunderstood you there:) My understanding was that i do something when you target me. And that definitely had to be tested.

If you think it will make a difference, sure go for it.

Last part is plainly incorrect. Numbers of stealthed/all players around you are NOT picked up automatically anymore. This changed after Homestead patch. Not trying to sound condescending, but please read the description of the addon.

First part is discussable. There's no 'behind you' in the game. What you see on the screen IS the interface. If an attack is made against your character - the game informs you about the attack in the way ZOS implemented it. But, again, since it's an mmo and everybody has their particular needs in terms of accessibility of the interface, zos provided API for the addons to be made.

ZOS decided what information is allowed for the client to know. A better way of thinking about addons is 'game interface that ZOS didn't do due to lack of time'. Luckily there are people who spend their free time to make additions and amendments to the default interface.

So, to the point. 'a heavy attack from behind' has distinct auditory cues, because the game, by design, INFORMS you about the attacks from all sides. The only difference between listening to the sounds and having a notification on your screen is just clarity.

You might argue that some parts of the gameplay ('attacks from behind') were intentionally made obscure to distinguish experienced players from the rest. I don't want to repeat myself in this thread to answer to that, so please refer to the previous thread (seriously, read it, the discussion was quite good).

First of all, it picks up the players around you, who may later enter stealth, it doesn't necessarily remove them from that list if they enter stealth (I would assume you wouldn't intentionally design it with that sort of design flaw). That means you have a tactical edge in terms of knowing a player is there if you didn't see them prior to their entering stealth.

Second of all, there is a behind you, players can attack you out of range of your visual field. Behind you, above you, below you. Furthermore, range attacks have a wide variety of subtlety in terms of animation and queues, ranging from very obvious to very subtle. Whether or not the game allows it in the API is not something I am putting into question. Obviously you have access to it at the present time. The importance of the clarity of those attacks is what I am calling in to question. You are removing the component of using observation skills to observe an attack that is outside of your focus. They function as a way to counterbalance the fact that they can be reacted against. What visual warnings do is they allow you to react faster than you would normally be able to react, rendering them useless by their inherent design. If you can't see a player until the attack is released, if you aren't anticipating an attack from range, and you are hit at a particular angle that is outside of your field of view, you have a lower probability of being able to evade that attack. What warnings do is level that so that you don't have to observe anything around you because you will know instantly the second someone is attacking you from range. It eliminates all of the variability and tactics associated with range attacks, narrowing them to a simple one button reaction within a certain range of time.

This is not an accessibility issue, the game client already provides you with necessary visual and auditory queues available to players. Access to them in the APIs should be removed.

1. For some reason (not outlined here) reacting to a threat in 3d world is assumed to be more desirable than reacting to a 2d notification. Please elaborate. And a side question - what if i made the notifications in the 3d world itself? Would it make them part of the world and thus validate their existence in your eyes?:)

2. 'Health is a subjective representation of your inherent risk of death' - exactly! Then why would we want the numbers? It has to be character hard breathing and full screen effects (which we already have). How can health bars with numbers be justified in the light of '3d world is better' view?

3. 'They provide an edge in exchange for counterability based on a players ability to observe them' - any attack is the game (besides several purely cc abilities) is blockable. I still don't see the drawbacks assumingly pertaining to ranged and stealthed attacks that counterbalance their effectiveness. Please elaborate.

4. Animation canceling. The whole point about observing opponents attacks can't be applied to this game, because most animations can be and are completely hidden by animation canceling. This even include channels like wrecking blow.

(1) My point was that it already EXISTS in the 3d world, and so it isn't necessary, but if you need a big XMARKS THE SPOT hovering over a player, sure why not, go for it. I mean, its ridiculous, but it would still respect the idea that you would at least have to LOOK at the player and see that they are attacking you, or anticipate their attack. It would still be easier, but it would at least not completely eliminate the physical dimensions of play. Which is exactly why a three dimensional universe is better than a 2 dimensional one, because it inherently carries more complex game physics, which is what gives the game substance.

(2) Health bars in a 3d world aren't justified, but they are a standard rpg representation of what happens AFTER you are hit by an attack, not before. The game currently doesn't support any post attack representations more complicated than that, and there has to be some mechanic in place to calculate when you are hit by an attack, what it does to you. It does not have anything to do with pre-attack mechanics.

(3) If range attacks were inherently equal to non range attacks in terms of their blockability, you would have no reason to make this addon. Range builds do not function in the same capacity as close range builds.

(4) Observing an opponent attacking you is a critical function of the game because if you can see them attacking you, you have a better idea of how to react. It plays a more marginal role in close range combat, but in long range combat it is a critical component because attacks can be countered in different ways that short range attacks can't. If observing your opponent doesn't play a critical role, why does the addon even exist. There are also many abilities which can't be animation cancelled, and the success rate is influenced heavily by if they are observed or not. Your concentration also is less divided when fighting multiple opponents. It is more difficult to observe what MANY opponents are doing at once without notifications. That requires practice and skill.

Again as outlined above please elaborate on this 'counterability' part, because from my experience the only (really only) advantage of melee attacks is the ability to add bash to animation canceling for more damage. Otherwise ranged attacks hit for more and are, well, ranged. Stealthed attacks hit for much more and are, well, invisible.

Yes but range attacks are not instant typically, often have cast times, and have many abilities which counterplay them. Melee attacks offer different distinct situational advantages that are not intrinsic to range attacks. Range builds do not have the same build flexibility that melee does, and melee often doesn't offer times between the attack and the impact in which to react defensively. If you go at a player long range out of stealth with a range build straight up head to head, you will often be fully countered by a competent player. Melee abilities generally have fewer counters, and are generally not as useful for fighting groups of opponents or outnumbered unless you have cloak or are built to tank.

This is exactly what i DIDN'T do. The notifications the addon provides allowed (and, to a much smaller extent, still allow) to tone down onesided fotm playstyle and, therefore, opened an opportunity for higher variety in playstyles, which i greatly enjoy.
Cathexis wrote: »
In general though, I think the most significant point is that removing styles of play by rendering them completely effectively deminishes the overall diversity of play styles in the game.

Fully agree here. Thus the addon:)

No doubt you enjoy them, it allows you to run a melee nightblade without any deficits.
It isn't a one sided play style, if you are getting killed by them, you have to run a build which counters them. That means making concessions in other areas. It doesn't make it more open, it eliminates range styles as a viable option. It may make your style more enjoyable, but it comes at the expense of other play styles. Your play style isn't less useful because it is being counterplayed, its just not the style you have to play in that situation. Your addon doesn't "tone down" range styles, it effectively kills them completely by eliminating the entire element of reacting to things at a human cognitive level.

Cathexis

killimandrosb16_ESO wrote: »

Smolt wrote: »

Dorrino wrote: »

Smolt wrote: »

Seeing hp values barely affects combat but I suppose maybe that should go too... although to imply that the two advantages are practically the same is either ignorant or dishonest imho.

I do agree here. Hp numbers are MUCH more important to know.

Smolt wrote: »

How is this not cheating, and is this considered a TOS violation?

It can't be TOS violation since the addons can only use information ZOS decided to provide to them.

Smolt wrote: »

Could someone look into this?

They already did.

Smolt wrote: »

It seems like this third party software plays a crucial part of the game for you.

Notifications cannot press your buttons and thus can't play the game for you.

Smolt wrote: »

Cheating? Exploit? If It isn't I guess I'll download it too lol.

Please enjoy:)

Oh wow lol you really are just a troll... hp numbers More important than being notified of incoming attacks rofl. Fine, ditch that too but this is absurd.

This guy not only wants to serve the players crap, he also wants you to enjoy it and thank him for eating it afterwards. But these guys with their superlegit explanaitons to exactly WHY their HACK is not cheating, have been around since day one of UO. Now can I apply the same logic to WHY I should be able to FLY and attack players from above, WHILE STEALTHED? Yes I can and it would be just as legit.

I agree with this.

Smolt wrote: »

Isn't being watchful of enemy behavior part of any game? If the add-on does that for you...
They took months to fix it when this add-on basically removed stealth from the game, hopefully this is handled more quickly. It's a good thing this add-on is very public, as sunlight is the best disinfectant. It's not Miat or whoever's fault really, if they didn't someone else would have taken advantage of the system which allows this. Thanks for making this a well known issue so it will be fixed sooner. Please zos, address this and let us know if you endorse this or if it will be fixed like the last version of this add-on.

I also agree with this. This is not Miat's fault per sa - Zos needs to fix this.

Kas wrote: »

i agree, the add-on is still too strong in it's current state. hwoever, part of it, is due to problems with eso.
i find it MUCH more reliable on stuff like incoming cfrags than the actual game. Not because I'm too dumb/distracted to see them, but because the visual effects are just bugging out in 1 of 50 cases.

Same with the CC tracker and stuff like enemy negates. If the visual cues of the base game were more reliable, this add-on wasn't what it is right now: way too much of an advantage. I use it, because I don't want to play at a disadvantage (don't tell me everyone should just stop, I netiher want to be at a disadvantage for 1 in 1000 fights), but I'd rather not have this symptom in the game.

It's even more problematic, that it notifies you about stuff happening in your back. That stuff just shouldn't be possible via the game's add-on API. As long as it is, I want a piece of it, though.

Imho the solution can never be cries to "ban the add-on" it has to be "change the add-on api again" (and fix problems that make such add-ons necessary in the first place)

See you have users even telling you it helps them because it gives them an advantage and allows them to see whats happening behind you.

Its a problem. To be clear, even though I think it's a problem because it gives an unfair advantage, the MOST SIGNIFICANT reason I think it needs to be fixed is because it trivializes fighting range attacks, and removes an entire dimension of the game that makes it interesting and dynamic. It takes something with complex and interesting tactical dynamics and renders it simplified to a one button hard-counter.

sodantokb16_ESO wrote: »

Argawarga wrote: »

sodantokb16_ESO wrote: »

That is the best part about it. He will tell you how not everyone is great at listening and so people, that are, have advantage and that is unfair. So he is helping everyone that wasnt blessed in life by money for best HW and best body parts to make PVP fair a better place for everyone! Then he waits for applause and photo shoots and removes himself to his chamber, probably to plan another charitable work, like giving every homeless person some palaces, so they can live in luxury like rich people.

Preface: I'm still undecided on how I feel about this add-on.

If that's the argument though where does one draw the line? You'd be right in pointing out that every person has advantages related to their ability, but isn't that what games and sport are all about? If I'm visually impaired can I build an add-on that targets enemies beyond a certain range? This logic would seem to say so.

You mean in general? You dont draw lines and you let people's skill (or lack of it, including stuff like being impaired) solve itself.
But in this thread and with his addon? He chooses what the line should be and then he draws it. Nobody elses decides anything. Except ZoS, they can decide if they rewoke his right for deciding.

I think this is also a serious problem, many people aren't paying for Miat's game, they are paying for the game Zos created.
With regard to impairment, I don't require that ZoS make changes just because I have mild visual (I'm not blind mind you, don't exaggerate) and social impairments. I accept that there are things I can't change about the game and about me. There are visual cues available, auditory cues, there are group tools available, and I can use my own intelligence and intuition. If I want to use them I can, and do.

(Sidebar, unrelated note; what pisses me off is stuff like when I can beat a leaderboard with my point gain on a daily basis and a week in ZoS throws in a "double AP week" which effectively rigs the boards in favour of the people on top and throws off my whole calculation and burns my month I had planned to break the boards in. As someone who plays ungrouped because playing with people is a massive struggle, that pisses me off.)