Magicka Sorcs lol

Derra

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

Asardes wrote: »

Only a couple of months ago people were complaining of how bad sorcerer is in PvP. Since then there was a slight buff to curse and pets but no buff to shields. L2P issue maybe?

Yeah this roughly what's going on. Haunting Curse became a thing. The rest of Sorc buffs were all about pets. Destro Passives were also changed so that can be considered a buff to Sorcs. I don't know why so many people have trouble with Sorcs recently.

Well sorcs had a rough time when proccsets could crit.

Essentially the sorc buffs were pretty minor - but at the same time stamina procc builds got nerfed quite a bit.

SodanTok

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

Asardes wrote: »

Only a couple of months ago people were complaining of how bad sorcerer is in PvP. Since then there was a slight buff to curse and pets but no buff to shields. L2P issue maybe?

Yeah this roughly what's going on. Haunting Curse became a thing. The rest of Sorc buffs were all about pets. Destro Passives were also changed so that can be considered a buff to Sorcs. I don't know why so many people have trouble with Sorcs recently.

Recently? They were always like this. When the narrative was they are bad, most people werent playing. Current narrative is they are OP so more and more people are playing them. No matter how strong they really are, they are annoying and the more there are of them in PVP the more this will be issue for the rest of the playerbase. Notice how the main scenario shifted from "magicka > stamina" or "stamina > magicka" to "magsorcs > everyone". The class is broken. It may not be OP, but it is broken in a way that either makes it look stronger or actually empowers average players more than any other class.

Also stamina nerfs. Also slight magicka/sorc buffs. Also more and more stamina and stamina sustain is coming with every CP increase. Also more and more magicka is coming with every CP (much more useful to shield stackers, than everyone else). Also everyone arrived at main damage cap in CP and now from secondary damage increases, the most popular (pen and crit) are getting ignored by shield users, while CP to increase damage to shield gets ignored by everyone not using shield and is worse than its counterpart of bastion. Overall, this trend will pretty much continue more and more (well, eventually ZoS will readjust), until everyone has that much CP that every magsorcs will have maxed out tumbling too.

Derra

sodantokb16_ESO wrote: »

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

Asardes wrote: »

Only a couple of months ago people were complaining of how bad sorcerer is in PvP. Since then there was a slight buff to curse and pets but no buff to shields. L2P issue maybe?

Yeah this roughly what's going on. Haunting Curse became a thing. The rest of Sorc buffs were all about pets. Destro Passives were also changed so that can be considered a buff to Sorcs. I don't know why so many people have trouble with Sorcs recently.

It may not be OP, but it is broken in a way that either makes it look stronger or actually empowers average players more than any other class.

It has easy defensive mechanisms that overperform in specific setups in smallish encounters.
Blocking+heal can make an average player look like a tanking god aswell.

There are issues but mostly they´re not class related (except for hardened + harness).

Izaki

Derra wrote: »

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

Asardes wrote: »

Only a couple of months ago people were complaining of how bad sorcerer is in PvP. Since then there was a slight buff to curse and pets but no buff to shields. L2P issue maybe?

Yeah this roughly what's going on. Haunting Curse became a thing. The rest of Sorc buffs were all about pets. Destro Passives were also changed so that can be considered a buff to Sorcs. I don't know why so many people have trouble with Sorcs recently.

Well sorcs had a rough time when proccsets could crit.

Essentially the sorc buffs were pretty minor - but at the same time stamina procc builds got nerfed quite a bit.

Its not just stamina players who are whining about magicka sorcs... literally everyone is!

The class is in a good spot... But its still pretty bad IMO. When shieldstacking is gone, then we'll actually be able to have some decent class survivability mechanics. Would be a nice little change.

Joy_Division

Wait, I thought templars were easy mode?

Will the forum-raging whiners please get their story straight.

SodanTok

Joy_Division wrote: »

Wait, I thought templars were easy mode?

Will the forum-raging whiners please get their story straight.

Well. That depends what do you imagine as "easy mode". Sorc is playing easy difficulty in single player game. Templar is standing afk in coop game, while your partner finishes it.
jk... or am I.

Emmagoldman

Yep, baddies use to relying on proc sets for a year and with a nerf to crit cant adapt. On my stamdk I focus magsorc because at the end of their offense you can stomp them as their shields fall. And they cant handle focus, so watch the battle field and help focus. Really want to focus a tanky magplar? Good luck.

* pug stam pvpers* I dont get it! I use to wear black rose, viper and tremorscale and one shot sorcs. Now at times I die!!!! My nb had velidreth, widowmkaer and viper and rek people all day. Now I have to be strategic and pick targets. Not fair!!!!

Surak73

Ocelot9x wrote: »

Surak73 wrote: »

mb10 wrote: »

Surak73 wrote: »

How about learning to play before calling for nerfs?

@Surak73 but Im better than you and probably 20 years younger too?

Better than me? I doubt... Younger than me? Well, yes, I would say at least 35 years younger, seeing your calling for nerfs afters some rekts...

Well surak,we're in the same guild and I can say that I'm better than you (PvP wise at least), and I still say that sorcs is over the top. Not calling for a nerf,but hell,it's so easy to play a msorc that I feel guilty when I log mine

Hi mate!

Actually, I feel more guilty when I'm playing with my ganking stamblade, but I think that after the last patch we have the most balanced battleground ever seen in ESO. Sorcerers were OP at the beginning, OK: however, that time has gone for good since nearly one year and half... And I recognize that stamina classes may have some problems reconsidering and adapting their builds after the nerf applied to proc sets, but that kind of damage was simply insane.

By the way, much of the criticism against magsorc is totally misled. Endless streaking?... Come on, you may consider yourself lucky and call it a day if you are at a few meters from your keep and can streak 2/3 times to the door avoiding a zerg... Streak is useful for a quick repositioning, not for running away, unless you're running away from a group of noobs just escaped from Coldharbor prison...

And as for shield stacking? Well, with my sorc I'm happy with my hardened ward, and I would consider using two or more shield just a waste of resources. Any decent player knows that keeping damaging a sorc's shields is not the proper way to deal with a sorcerer. However, there will always be someone ready to claim "Damn f...ing sorcerers with their stupid shields, I spent all of my stamina trying to bring them down without any effect and then they killed me! They need to be nerfed!"...

mtwiggz

I would disagree that magsorcs are over powered. I would however agree that magsorcs in certain builds are performing well over the top of other classes.

Father_X_Zombie

Neighbor wrote: »

Magika Sorcs have been top tier in PvP and PvE since the origin of this game. For some reason ZoS loves them.

I guess you slept through Dark Brotherhood? Sorcs were the least played class by FAR. And we haven't been top tier PvP since IC. Heavy armor trollplars and stamplars and grothaar mag dks are MUCH more effective

Father_X_Zombie

I gotta say, the mag sorc community is probably the most savage group on the forums. Whenever our class is threatened we come at them with common sense and logic to defend our class. Hopefully ZOS realizes this and leaves Sorcs alone

Aedaryl

I think sorc will receive nerfs, there is too much people hwo complain (even if it's the biggest l2p issue I've seen) about us.

Direct class nerf or not, I hope it will be a nerf for balance, not the big hammer for stop noobs crying...

- Pirate skeleton
- Stackable curse
- 10% nerf for the volatile familiar damage pet
- Shieldstacking

This is that kind of nerf sorc need, nothing else.

Jitterbug

Sorcs are cool. I like them.
A very clearly envisioned class, and played well they are very hard to get down.
I would never play one, but I like looking at them :P

MirkoZ

"90% of cyrodil pvp population are magsorc"

WHAT?! I see only templar or dk tanks with infinite sustain and u came here to complain about sorcs?!-.-

Sorcs don't need a nerf , shields are the core of the sorc , without shields sorcs are totaly unplayable.

Btw the bug with streak is so nice !!!

Ocelot9x

@Surak73 hey man,sorry if I looked like an a**hole but I was tired of the "l2p issue" when talking about msorc. Anyway,I don't think that streak is a problem as I find it pretty balanced with the fatigue increasing cost. What's making sorcs over the top at the moment is their huge burst damage (i can burst for around 8k+7k+7k+6,5k in one global cooldown,it's just crazy) and the amazing survivability.
While play as sorc the gameplay is very forgiving and you can build your burst even while people are skilling on you,waiting for your fragment to proc while shieldind(and good luck dodging a point blank animation canceled instant frag). While playing vs a sorc (even an average one) if you drop under 50% you're dead. Period.
So yeah I consider sorcerer easy mode ATM,that's why I'm loving so much running with my non meta medium stam dk

FriedEggSandwich

Ocelot9x wrote: »

@Surak73 hey man,sorry if I looked like an a**hole but I was tired of the "l2p issue" when talking about msorc. Anyway,I don't think that streak is a problem as I find it pretty balanced with the fatigue increasing cost. What's making sorcs over the top at the moment is their huge burst damage (i can burst for around 8k+7k+7k+6,5k in one global cooldown,it's just crazy) and the amazing survivability.
While play as sorc the gameplay is very forgiving and you can build your burst even while people are skilling on you,waiting for your fragment to proc while shieldind(and good luck dodging a point blank animation canceled instant frag). While playing vs a sorc (even an average one) if you drop under 50% you're dead. Period.
So yeah I consider sorcerer easy mode ATM,that's why I'm loving so much running with my non meta medium stam dk

Sorcs burst is at least 8% more powerful than it was last patch thanks to the destro buff. 8% is a large amount of damage increase, especially when it can be stacked with minor beserk and minor vulnerability. The solution is not to nerf sorcs base damage, which hasn't been buffed and would make equipping a fire staff even more mandatory. The solution is simply to remove the 8% damage buff from destro passive. That it the logical place to start if we're going to address the burst damage of sorcs. That and the ability to stack minor beserk and minor vulnerability, both of which boost damage by 8% each.

TrueGreenSmoker

So much hate on mag sorcs.. Haters gonna hate..

WarLord2905

Give me a break. At least shields can be brought down with enough damage. Shuffle on the other hand is BS. I chased a NB down and 10 skills in a row missed.
I think PVP balancing at the moment is the best it's been in a while. I haven't been in PVP for a while and since homestead launch I haven't left.
You can't beat a magsorc..... get over it OP. I struggle with Stamplar jab BS on a magsorc but I don't come on here and cry NERF.

KramUzibra

mb10 wrote: »

(A PVP perspective and a non zerg perspective)

Lets balance the game and remove the "easy mode" option.

This class IS unbalanced compared to every other magicka class.

The shield stacking is beyond ridiculous
You cannot crit through shields and no, I will not run shield breaker because that set is offered to stamina users.
The unlimited streaks is probably even worse.
Most the skills dont even have an animation to cast anymore especially crystal frags


The stamina classes more or less perform almost as well as each other and I like to believe the magicka classes do too with mag nb at a bit of a disadvantage but I think that depends on the player.

Its not a l2p issue because I have a mag sorc myself, I drop mag sorcs on my other classes and Im sure most people do but they are definitely over powered at the moment.

I make this thread becuase Im assuming there will be patch notes soon for Morrowind and I would really consider ZOS to review the mag sorcs performance.

Your opinion?

Thank you so much for this thread! I agree 100% most of my friends that main sorc agree that it's out performing other classes... plus I play on a full medium armor stam dk and let me just say it's absolutely ridiculous how fast I get bursted down !

SodanTok

WarLord2905 wrote: »

Give me a break. At least shields can be brought down with enough damage. Shuffle on the other hand is BS. I chased a NB down and 10 skills in a row missed.
I think PVP balancing at the moment is the best it's been in a while. I haven't been in PVP for a while and since homestead launch I haven't left.
You can't beat a magsorc..... get over it OP. I struggle with Stamplar jab BS on a magsorc but I don't come on here and cry NERF.

Congratulations, you just won jackpot with probability of 0.00058 * 10^-3 % such great bad luck denied you sweet kill and allowed NB, that melts once you touch him, to escape.

Surak73

Ocelot9x wrote: »

@Surak73 hey man,sorry if I looked like an a**hole but I was tired of the "l2p issue" when talking about msorc. Anyway,I don't think that streak is a problem as I find it pretty balanced with the fatigue increasing cost. What's making sorcs over the top at the moment is their huge burst damage (i can burst for around 8k+7k+7k+6,5k in one global cooldown,it's just crazy) and the amazing survivability.
While play as sorc the gameplay is very forgiving and you can build your burst even while people are skilling on you,waiting for your fragment to proc while shieldind(and good luck dodging a point blank animation canceled instant frag). While playing vs a sorc (even an average one) if you drop under 50% you're dead. Period.
So yeah I consider sorcerer easy mode ATM,that's why I'm loving so much running with my non meta medium stam dk

You mean that with a stam DK in full medium you can't outperform a burst damage of 8k+7k+7k+6,5k? Really?... Come on, with a classical charge/dizzlying/heavy/executioner (plus the ubiquitous viper...) your damage is already at least 1.5 times that one, maybe 2 times with a poison injection before...

Then, if the sorcerer is still alive, a ferocious leap and he is history with all of his shields...

Ocelot9x

Surak73 wrote: »

Ocelot9x wrote: »

@Surak73 hey man,sorry if I looked like an a**hole but I was tired of the "l2p issue" when talking about msorc. Anyway,I don't think that streak is a problem as I find it pretty balanced with the fatigue increasing cost. What's making sorcs over the top at the moment is their huge burst damage (i can burst for around 8k+7k+7k+6,5k in one global cooldown,it's just crazy) and the amazing survivability.
While play as sorc the gameplay is very forgiving and you can build your burst even while people are skilling on you,waiting for your fragment to proc while shieldind(and good luck dodging a point blank animation canceled instant frag). While playing vs a sorc (even an average one) if you drop under 50% you're dead. Period.
So yeah I consider sorcerer easy mode ATM,that's why I'm loving so much running with my non meta medium stam dk

You mean that with a stam DK in full medium you can't outperform a burst damage of 8k+7k+7k+6,5k? Really?... Come on, with a classical charge/dizzlying/heavy/executioner (plus the ubiquitous viper...) your damage is already at least 1.5 times that one, maybe 2 times with a poison injection before...

Then, if the sorcerer is still alive, a ferocious leap and he is history with all of his shields...

Dizzlying swing got nerfed down because people couldn't time a block or just avoid the cone. Medium armor got bonus to crit and to survive you should invest your cp in crit DMG/heal and you can't crit shields. My burst as medium wearer hitting an average player is:
heavy+crit rush (3,5k+4k)
GLOBAL COOLDOWN
dizzlying swing+light attack (7k-crit,on shields 5.5k+1k)
GLOBAL COOLDOWN
Take flight (9k average)
GLOBAL COOLDOWN
Light attack+executioner+executioning poison injection tick (1k+6k+2k)

So,with 3 global cooldowns there is a lot of time for the sorc to react and stack defenses so if he's not a slowpoke he will survive. On the other hand with my sorc in 1 global cooldwon I can burst for 24k damage leaving no time to react. This is why a well played sorc outperforms a well played everything else.
I'm not here asking for a nerf,I love the challenging part of PvP,but I feel that other classes should have ways of doing something similar.
P.s.
For the numbers I watched few videos I recorded

Edziu

DeadlyPhoenix wrote: »

Please leave sorcs alone, kk? Thanks.

I play magsorc as my main, I havent done much PvP in months, mainly due to the lag, it's just not fun....

Anyway, every time I'm in Cyrodiil and I'm pvping, if I stack full damage I run out of mana quickly.... insanely quickly.... that could just be me, idk I don't PvP a ton since its always too laggy and mixed with my own personal lag I'll pass....

Problem is though, people always want sorcs nerfed in PvP. As a result we get them nerfed in PvE as well and it isnt right. They base the classes in this game mainly due to PvP.

Here's how it goes....

1: Buff the class for PvE, makes OP in PvP
2: Nerfs the class for PvP, makes it useless in PvE.
3: Rinse and repeat until they finally realize they need to balance the two separately.

The only way that PvP and PvE can be balanced together is if both of them can and are done at the same time. In ESO though they're separated, so therefore the balancing should be as well.... They need sets and traits separated into PvP and PvE categories and one cannot be used for the other..... Otherwise we get what we have now, OP, worthless, OP, worthless, OP, worthless.... you get the idea....

I play nb as I main, please dont nerf it more again and buff it to be on par in dps with sorc/dk with similar burst of minimum 3 skills at once where nb need to have 2 proc sets to get similar burst from hide, not in open fight like sorc

Anti_Virus

Father_X_Zombie wrote: »

I gotta say, the mag sorc community is probably the most savage group on the forums. Whenever our class is threatened we come at them with common sense and logic to defend our class. Hopefully ZOS realizes this and leaves Sorcs alone

Lol no.

Biro123

I got hit with a 20k snipe yesterday. It wasn't from a sorc. Along with the associated heavy attack, my sorc was dead in the first gcd of the fight.

Just thought I'd throw that in there. Everyone is OP!!!

Seriously though - its gear. Gear is overpowered. I mean look at what has changed and how much impact its had. Sorc changes over that last few patches have been very minimal - as have stamblade changes.. But look at the gear changes... New good magica sets with 1T that took sorcs a while to get used to. Procset nerfs that had an instant affect on stamblades...
And more CP = higher %buff to stats and more stacking in dmg, more sustain, so you can stack more dmg gear etc..

I think its fairly common knowledge that mag is king again for most classes. Seriously, its the gear, not the class. Sorcs are just benefitting more from certain sets combined with CP's.

Malamar1229

DA FECK IS GOIN ON WITH THESE FORUMS LATELY?!?!

Christ on a cracker I take a short hiatus from the forums and come back to nerf sorc after nerf sorc thread.

So for the anti-sorc brigade, allow me to share Makkir's list for surviving sorcs:

1) Stop potato'ing
2) Don't lemming off a keep wall on your mount when there's a sorc down below
3) Don't follow the sorc under Alessia Bridge
4) Don't follow the sorc around the rocks
5) Don't stand on purple glowy things
6) Take off the cheese and put on some survivability
7) Try snares

Edziu

Malamar1229 wrote: »

3) Don't follow the sorc under Alessia Bridge
4) Don't follow the sorc around the rocks

Surak73

Ocelot9x wrote: »

Surak73 wrote: »

Ocelot9x wrote: »

@Surak73 hey man,sorry if I looked like an a**hole but I was tired of the "l2p issue" when talking about msorc. Anyway,I don't think that streak is a problem as I find it pretty balanced with the fatigue increasing cost. What's making sorcs over the top at the moment is their huge burst damage (i can burst for around 8k+7k+7k+6,5k in one global cooldown,it's just crazy) and the amazing survivability.
While play as sorc the gameplay is very forgiving and you can build your burst even while people are skilling on you,waiting for your fragment to proc while shieldind(and good luck dodging a point blank animation canceled instant frag). While playing vs a sorc (even an average one) if you drop under 50% you're dead. Period.
So yeah I consider sorcerer easy mode ATM,that's why I'm loving so much running with my non meta medium stam dk

You mean that with a stam DK in full medium you can't outperform a burst damage of 8k+7k+7k+6,5k? Really?... Come on, with a classical charge/dizzlying/heavy/executioner (plus the ubiquitous viper...) your damage is already at least 1.5 times that one, maybe 2 times with a poison injection before...

Then, if the sorcerer is still alive, a ferocious leap and he is history with all of his shields...

Dizzlying swing got nerfed down because people couldn't time a block or just avoid the cone. Medium armor got bonus to crit and to survive you should invest your cp in crit DMG/heal and you can't crit shields. My burst as medium wearer hitting an average player is:
heavy+crit rush (3,5k+4k)
GLOBAL COOLDOWN
dizzlying swing+light attack (7k-crit,on shields 5.5k+1k)
GLOBAL COOLDOWN
Take flight (9k average)
GLOBAL COOLDOWN
Light attack+executioner+executioning poison injection tick (1k+6k+2k)

So,with 3 global cooldowns there is a lot of time for the sorc to react and stack defenses so if he's not a slowpoke he will survive. On the other hand with my sorc in 1 global cooldwon I can burst for 24k damage leaving no time to react. This is why a well played sorc outperforms a well played everything else.
I'm not here asking for a nerf,I love the challenging part of PvP,but I feel that other classes should have ways of doing something similar.
P.s.
For the numbers I watched few videos I recorded

Well, actually the reaction time is only in the first cooldown, so it's not exactly what I would call "a lot of time"... If the player miss that fraction of second, which is not so unlikely in a battle when you have to pay attention to several people on all the sides, it's a stun and then (in light armor) it's a certain death, with or without the second and the third cooldowns, since the time frame of take flight must be used for breaking free.

But so, which is your proposal? That every ability should have general cooldown (= no AC)? Or that no ability should have it? Or - - that only sorcerer's abilities should have it?...

thankyourat

Malamar1229 wrote: »

DA FECK IS GOIN ON WITH THESE FORUMS LATELY?!?!

Christ on a cracker I take a short hiatus from the forums and come back to nerf sorc after nerf sorc thread.

So for the anti-sorc brigade, allow me to share Makkir's list for surviving sorcs:

1) Stop potato'ing
2) Don't lemming off a keep wall on your mount when there's a sorc down below
3) Don't follow the sorc under Alessia Bridge
4) Don't follow the sorc around the rocks
5) Don't stand on purple glowy things
6) Take off the cheese and put on some survivability
7) Try snares

So basically don't fight a sorc. I don't know why it's so hard for sorc mains to admit that the class they play is OP when combined with sets and cp

Malamar1229

thankyourat wrote: »

Malamar1229 wrote: »

DA FECK IS GOIN ON WITH THESE FORUMS LATELY?!?!

Christ on a cracker I take a short hiatus from the forums and come back to nerf sorc after nerf sorc thread.

So for the anti-sorc brigade, allow me to share Makkir's list for surviving sorcs:

1) Stop potato'ing
2) Don't lemming off a keep wall on your mount when there's a sorc down below
3) Don't follow the sorc under Alessia Bridge
4) Don't follow the sorc around the rocks
5) Don't stand on purple glowy things
6) Take off the cheese and put on some survivability
7) Try snares

So basically don't fight a sorc. I don't know why it's so hard for sorc mains to admit that the class they play is OP when combined with sets and cp

https://www.universalclass.com/i/course/reading-comprehension-101.htm