Nirnroot query

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Myrrah
Myrrah
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This has prob'ly been brought up before but i have been blissfully unaware as i didn't do alchemy writs until homestead. So as i get surveys-a glaring "WHY?" has arisen: why is there no nirnroot in the alchemist surveys? (at least not in any i've gotten so far) Are the nodes that spawn for them random and there will be at some point? or did they really completely leave out the most difficult plant to keep in stock?
  • Gandrhulf_Harbard
    Gandrhulf_Harbard
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    Alchemist Survey's have always been rubbish.

    Usually get 3 or 4 of the already most common plants, and none of the rarer, more sought after ones.

    All The Best
    Those memories come back to haunt me, they haunt me like a curse.
    Is a dream a lie if it don't come true, or is it something worse.
  • OutLaw_Nynx
    OutLaw_Nynx
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    I have no idea why everyone has such a hard time with this plant. Follow a river and you'll find them.
  • Sounomi
    Sounomi
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    Its always made me wonder too why Nirnroot doesn't spawn from the surveys considering that's what you're using the most. But at least they did eventually give the containers a chance to give Nirnroot back.

    Alchemist Survey's have always been rubbish.

    Usually get 3 or 4 of the already most common plants, and none of the rarer, more sought after ones.
    You can walk away from it and go back to trigger a reshuffle of the spawns. You can keep doing this til you get the nodes you want.

    I have no idea why everyone has such a hard time with this plant. Follow a river and you'll find them.
    Don't worry, now that you have Homestead everyone will be looking for them and they'll be much harder to find. Especially since most of the spawns supposedly share it with other node types that people won't be gathering from.
  • Myrrah
    Myrrah
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    I have no idea why everyone has such a hard time with this plant. Follow a river and you'll find them.
    edit-oops-wrong quote: i follow rivers all the time when i'm farming and do get them. but i also have 2 toons doing alchemist writs and nearly every one of them asks for three nirnroot. so essentially you have to follow rivers every day. it's not that it's "such a hard time" it's that the surveys are supposed to ya know-"help" and i have other things to do besides follow rivers. thanks for your input :) and thank you to those who gave me a response as to the survey composition i can expect
    Edited by Myrrah on 23 February 2017 11:35
  • cpuScientist
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    Myrrah wrote: »
    edit-oops-wrong quote: i follow rivers all the time when i'm farming and do get them. but i also have 2 toons doing alchemist writs and nearly every one of them asks for three nirnroot. so essentially you have to follow rivers every day. it's not that it's "such a hard time" it's that the surveys are supposed to ya know-"help" and i have other things to do besides follow rivers. thanks for your input :)

    Follow your dreams?
  • Myrrah
    Myrrah
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    Follow your dreams?

    lol! this was cute. good idea. i'll just see it this way as i follow rivers-haha
  • Tommy_The_Gun
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    95% of the times I get requirement for 3 nirnroots. There are so many other alchemy ingredients.. why nirnroot ? Because it is noisy or something ?!
    7XcX3OT.png
  • Kagetenchu
    Kagetenchu
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    Isn't nirnroot supposed to be rare according to lore anyways. So why do 90% of my writs ask for it.
  • runagate
    runagate
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    Alchemical writs may not return nirnroot but the Shadowy Supplier's first option "potions and mats" certainly does!
  • AlnilamE
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    Sounomi wrote: »
    Especially since most of the spawns supposedly share it with other node types that people won't be gathering from.

    Not true. Nirnroot and Water Hyacinth are the only plants that don't share a node with anything else.

    OP: Only the max level writ asks for Nirnroot. Other writ levels ask for different plants.
    The Moot Councillor
  • STEVIL
    STEVIL
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    Nirnroot is hardly used for anything else.
    it *can* be used for poisons but usually isn't.
    if it weren't for tier-10ish writs it would be just inventory clutter more or less.
    so as far as consumption goes, its a decent choice for overconsuming at the end.

    nirn is used as the trip in 75% of the tier-10 writs.

    to get nirnroot:
    any waterway harvesting.
    drops in alchemy writ rewards somewhat less than others but it does drop there.
    drops from shadowy supplier rather frequently.
    buy from guild vendors - often rigtht now really pricey but not uncommon to spot some for 100-300 per if you just casually look.

    Example Pattern for Sustained:
    Run 8 tier-10s alchy writs a day using avg approx 18 nirnroot
    open 12 alchemy writ rewards a day (inc 4 tier-1s) and likely see 6 (maybe 3 maybe 9) nirnroot
    if you have DB open 8 shadowy suppliers a day getting 6 (maybe 3 maybe 9) nirnroot.
    harvest/buy 6 or more a day (more on good finds days less on bad price finds) from the (assuming 50-160) 7968 gold the 12 writs gave you straight up. (Even at 500g/nirn bad price you can buy 15 nirnroot a day off the writs gold alone.)
    Still pocket all the other ingredients and surveys from the writs.

    Note:

    Obviously this example assumes 12 character etc and other assumptions and uses rough guesses for drops and so on.

    But, whatever your character numbers are, you can run more tier-1s and fewer tier-10s if you want to get less master writs and use fewer nirnroot - while the gold and other factors stay the same (except for using and gaining lower tier solvents.) the key is finding the balancing point for your particular character setups, playstyles etc.

    The more tier-10s you want the more effort you have to do to and the more expense you have to use to support your nirnroot habit and get more chances at the master writ jackpots.

    its your choice - but there is now law written saying running all tier-10 writs for max chances at master writ jackpots should be easy.

    Alternative approach: lobby for rules changes so you make more loot with more master writs for less effort/expense than now.





    Edited by STEVIL on 23 February 2017 13:10
    Proudly skooma free while talks-when-drunk is in mandatory public housing.
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  • Fudly_budly
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    I agree that surveys should include Nirnroot in the mix. Particularly the surveys that spawn near water.

    Honestly, imo, ZOS just doesn't think through the total implications of the things they do. Nirnroot shortages have always been something those of us who regularly do alchemy writs have had to contend but it was not much of a problem. Then, homestead drops and the ranks of alchemists looking for quick, easy, vouchers swell tremendously. Now, waterways are swamped (pun intended) with rapid spamming "farmers" who dash past everything in their zeal to collect the treasured nirns. Want more nirns..? Collect the effing water hyacinth so more nirns will spawn.
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  • Myrrah
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    ok-i think many are missing the point here. Surveys are intended to "help". That is their purpose. All other crafts get nodes of their most needed
    STEVIL wrote: »
    Nirnroot is hardly used for anything else.
    it *can* be used for poisons but usually isn't.
    if it weren't for tier-10ish writs it would be just inventory clutter more or less.
    so as far as consumption goes, its a decent choice for overconsuming at the end.

    nirn is used as the trip in 75% of the tier-10 writs.

    to get nirnroot:
    any waterway harvesting.
    drops in alchemy writ rewards somewhat less than others but it does drop there.
    drops from shadowy supplier rather frequently.
    buy from guild vendors - often rigtht now really pricey but not uncommon to spot some for 100-300 per if you just casually look.

    Example Pattern for Sustained:
    Run 8 tier-10s alchy writs a day using avg approx 18 nirnroot
    open 12 alchemy writ rewards a day (inc 4 tier-1s) and likely see 6 (maybe 3 maybe 9) nirnroot
    if you have DB open 8 shadowy suppliers a day getting 6 (maybe 3 maybe 9) nirnroot.
    harvest/buy 6 or more a day (more on good finds days less on bad price finds) from the (assuming 50-160) 7968 gold the 12 writs gave you straight up. (Even at 500g/nirn bad price you can buy 15 nirnroot a day off the writs gold alone.)
    Note: you can run more tier-1s and fewer tier-10s if you want to get less master writs and use fewer nirnroot - gold and other factors stay the same except for using and gaining lower tier solvents.
    Still pocket all the other ingredients and surveys from the writs.

    Alternative approach: lobby for rules changes so you make more loot for same effort.



    while i appreciate, and often chuckle at your always thorough responses to things (and the witty snark that usually follows ;) ) you're missing the point. Surveys were put into the game to help you with your crafting. If they don't-they don't have a purpose. Correct?
    AlnilamE wrote: »

    Not true. Nirnroot and Water Hyacinth are the only plants that don't share a node with anything else.

    are you saying nirnroot and water hyacinth don't share nodes with eachother? or with other plants? They do share nodes with eachother. You run down a river, pick a nirnroot. Run back. Now there's a water hyacinth there
    Edited by Myrrah on 23 February 2017 13:14
  • Sweetpea704
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    I have no idea why everyone has such a hard time with this plant. Follow a river and you'll find them.
    Because people do writs on 6 or 7 toons. Most days that means you have to get 18-21 nirnroot to satisfy the writ. The struggle is real.
  • Titansteele
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    Because people do writs on 6 or 7 toons. Most days that means you have to get 18-21 nirnroot to satisfy the writ. The struggle is real.

    I am gutted that I stockpiled my Nirnroot :smile:

    <insert evil laugh here>
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  • Fudly_budly
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    and because people don't harvest hyacinth.. no nirns spawn. I spent several hours yesterday specifically on Nirns and my SWAG results: water hyacinth 80% nirnroot 20%. Actually saw people "rapids" past hyacinth. hilarious.

    Edited by Fudly_budly on 23 February 2017 13:32
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  • lardvader
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    I stopped doing alchemy writs long before U13 but I've been doing them since the update just for vouchers. I'll probably stop doing them again since the surplus of nirnroot is gone. At least drop the writs that require them.

    The master writs from alchemy only gives you max 5(?) vouchers anyway and usually just 2... :no_mouth:

    They are not hard to find and farm but I think it's way more writs that require them than anything else. Hey maybe make one more combo that require leather as well for clothier - I'm burninng through my silk and barely touch the rubedo.
    CP 1200+ PC EU EP
  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User]
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  • STEVIL
    STEVIL
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    Myrrah wrote: »
    ok-i think many are missing the point here. Surveys are intended to "help". That is their purpose. All other crafts get nodes of their most needed
    while i appreciate, and often chuckle at your always thorough responses to things (and the witty snark that usually follows ;) ) you're missing the point. Surveys were put into the game to help you with your crafting. If they don't-they don't have a purpose. Correct?

    Surveys do help, right?
    the surveys i have run over and over and over and over almost always provide columbine and the other really useful reagents for making potions and some poisons. Alchemy surveys are among the most valuable ones out there in resale of components now.

    How anyone can imply surveys for alchemy don't provide mats useful for crafting is beyond me.

    Solvents are also included in the trip-rotation about 25% of the time instead of nirnroot. Surveys dont have lork-tears either. . Should we be replacing one of the flower nodes per survey with a bubbling spring? Cut back on columbine and other flowers so you don't have to farm waterways for lork-tears?

    To the specific point - the nirnroot demand for writs and such - you can choose a sustaining level for multiple character accounts - but it might not include every writ every character being a tier-10 jackpot for master writ roll. unlike most of the the other crafts alchemy benefits from tier-1 writs being fantastic all thru your development. the only significant gain betwee tier-1 vs tier-10 for the tier-10 is the master writ chance. The nirnroot demand is the pain for the gain.

    i cannot fill my blacksmith tier-10 writs with iron? i have to use rubedite. that is more expensive than iron. its also more useful.

    With alchemy the reagents are the same for my tier-1s as my tier-10s except that the tier-10s hit the nirnroot more frequently. the waters are washed out in the rewards.

    run tier-1 blacksmith writ: use up about 30 iron but see it replaced by 25 iron in box - 50/50 chance of rubedite vs iron weapon/armor - survey chance the same. Gold the same
    run tier-10 blacksmith survey - use up 30+ rubedite - get box with 25 pc random tier below rubedite. 1005 chance of one rubedite pirce for decon/sale - survey chance the same, Gold the same. Chance of master writ.

    See how the tier-10 option uses up more (a lot more cuz of the box drop) of the more expensive mat but gets you the chance at the master writ jackpot? See that? kinda makes sens eright? burn more for chance to get more? Like i dont know... logic?

    Run tier-1 alchemy writ - burn some reagents. Get some reagents. get gold. get surveys maybe. solvents wash out with the rewards. the trip is not centered as much on nirnroot. Will be spread on different cycle.
    Run tier-10 alchemy writ - burn same reagents. get same reagents. get same gold and same surveys. Solvensts wash out in the rewards. But now the trip is focused more heavily on nirnroot making ti more expensive to easily buy thru that demand however you gain chance at tier-10 master writ jackpot.

    if you look at nirnroot being like it is for tier-10s as the "uses more expensive material" equivalent to smithing writs using rubedite - then it seems to match up from a logic standpoint.

    of course rules changes allowing more easily acquired nirnroot or swapping the weight off nirnroot would make the alchemy master writ jackpots even more profitable than they are now, just like letting you turn in iron for tier-10 blacksmith writs would make those jackpots more profitable too.

    or - you can work out between your character options the good working balance point that fits your playstelyes and preferences and manage your resources.



    Proudly skooma free while talks-when-drunk is in mandatory public housing.
    YFMV Your Fun May Vary.

    First Law of Nerf-o-Dynamics
    "The good way I used to get good kills *with good skill* was good but the way others kill me now is bad."

  • Fudly_budly
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    Sure, it shares the same spawn with other plants. But harder to find? I got a total of 200 yesterday just traveling between zones to restock all my resources.

    wow. that's pretty good compared to the 15 I managed. Did get about 100 hyacinth though.
    Rule #1: RL trumps gaming.
    Rule #2: True immersion is RL.
    Rule #3: RL lag is wonderful.
    Rule #4: People matter. Pixels do not.
  • STEVIL
    STEVIL
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    Because people do writs on 6 or 7 toons. Most days that means you have to get 18-21 nirnroot to satisfy the writ. The struggle is real.

    Incorrect or at least misleading.

    Because people do tier-10 writs on 6 or 7 toons. Most days that means you have to get 18-21 nirnroot to satisfy the writ. The struggle is self-imposed.

    i thnk the nirnroot vs lork-tears is 3-1, 75% not 85%+ but hey thats small confort.

    Swap off a few tier-10 writs for tier-1 writs, only lose the master writ jackpot and lower your nirnroot-monkey to a level you can sustain.

    Did i miss the memo that said "and thou shalt be able to do all tier-10 max writs every day without struggle and reap the master writ jackpots." Was that in the natch potes somewhere?


    Proudly skooma free while talks-when-drunk is in mandatory public housing.
    YFMV Your Fun May Vary.

    First Law of Nerf-o-Dynamics
    "The good way I used to get good kills *with good skill* was good but the way others kill me now is bad."

  • Sweetpea704
    Sweetpea704
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    Sure, it shares the same spawn with other plants. But harder to find? I got a total of 200 yesterday just traveling between zones to restock all my resources.

    So, that is all you do then, farm? I actually want to have time to do other stuff, like dailies and pledges, a little sewers or PVP. I don't think it is too much to ask that farming resources isn't a full time job. They need to mix up the alchemy requirements with other plants once in a while.
  • Cherryblossom
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    Myrrah wrote: »
    edit-oops-wrong quote: i follow rivers all the time when i'm farming and do get them. but i also have 2 toons doing alchemist writs and nearly every one of them asks for three nirnroot. so essentially you have to follow rivers every day. it's not that it's "such a hard time" it's that the surveys are supposed to ya know-"help" and i have other things to do besides follow rivers. thanks for your input :) and thank you to those who gave me a response as to the survey composition i can expect

    I've got hundreds of Nirnroot, just make sure you have 3 in your inventory and you will never have to look for them!
  • AlnilamE
    AlnilamE
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    Myrrah wrote: »
    while i appreciate, and often chuckle at your always thorough responses to things (and the witty snark that usually follows ;) ) you're missing the point. Surveys were put into the game to help you with your crafting. If they don't-they don't have a purpose. Correct?

    The thing is, Nirnroot is pretty useless outside of writs. Getting Columbine or Bugloss or Blessed Thistle is far more useful.

    Do you actually use Nirnroot in any of your regular potions?
    are you saying nirnroot and water hyacinth don't share nodes with eachother? or with other plants? They do share nodes with eachother. You run down a river, pick a nirnroot. Run back. Now there's a water hyacinth there

    A nirnroot node is always a nirnroot node. A water hyacinth node is always water hyacinth. I used to do my Craglorn run back in the day when the crafting bag meant I didn't auto-complete the writ and I can tell you where the respective nodes are and I've never seen them switch places.

    All other alchemy mats have a group of plants that spawn in the same spot.

    The Moot Councillor
  • anadandy
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    95% of the times I get requirement for 3 nirnroots. There are so many other alchemy ingredients.. why nirnroot ? Because it is noisy or something ?!
    7XcX3OT.png

    This is the truest thing ever written.

    OT: I stopped doing writs because they require some high level/useful ingredients and then reward you with a bunch of filler.
  • AlnilamE
    AlnilamE
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    95% of the times I get requirement for 3 nirnroots. There are so many other alchemy ingredients.. why nirnroot ? Because it is noisy or something ?!
    7XcX3OT.png

    The Red Nirnroot in Skyrim was like that for me.
    The Moot Councillor
  • SFDB
    SFDB
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    It's not bad, and I run 10 top tier alchemy writs a day, but I'll admit I would be elated if I could figure out how to get Essence of Ravage Health every time.

    And yes, Nirnroots do NOT share a node with Water Hyacinths. I've harvested thousands and never had the two swap.
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    [Deleted User]
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