Molten Whip vs. Flame Lash?

kadar

LF advice from experienced theorycrafters/PVP Magicka DKs. See title: Which morph?

Flame Lash seems to be the generally accepted "PVP morph" doing superior burst damage with the Power Lash effect and providing a small self heal. I'm wondering if anyone has any experience/opinion on running Molten Whip over Lash in PVP. Whip grants increased spell damage "while slotted" to your Ardent Flame abilities (Whip/Embers/Engulfing Flames/Standard). With much of my damage coming from whip/embers, could Molten Whip be a viable alternative or is it pretty gimped in comparison?

kessik221

Minor spell damage buff vs a buff that somewhat givea dks burst damage when they have none. Burst damage please.

CyrusArya

Power lash is very easy to proc with the multitude of CC effects that dragon knights have access to. When you consider that much of your big burst damage will be coming off of combos incorporating some form of stun, power lash easily wins when it comes to overall damage in a PvP context.

In regards to the heal, I wouldn't describe it as being small by any means. Prior to dragons blood being buffed, DKs survived by layering heals from many sources instead of crutching on one big heal like templars. Power lash is pretty central to that, seeing as its a free heal attached to your main dps skill. Even with the new dragon blood, this layering of heals is essential to getting the maximum level of performance out of the class.

So in my opinion, power lash is the clear winner in PvP.

kadar

CyrusArya wrote: »

Power lash is very easy to proc with the multitude of CC effects that dragon knights have access to. When you consider that much of your big burst damage will be coming off of combos incorporating some form of stun, power lash easily wins when it comes to overall damage in a PvP context.

In regards to the heal, I wouldn't describe it as being small by any means. Prior to dragons blood being buffed, DKs survived by layering heals from many sources instead of crutching on one big heal like templars. Power lash is pretty central to that, seeing as its a free heal attached to your main dps skill. Even with the new dragon blood, this layering of heals is essential to getting the maximum level of performance out of the class.

So in my opinion, power lash is the clear winner in PvP.

Thanks for the detailed reply. I'm going to go with Flame Lash for now.

Toast_STS

The power lash synergy costs 0 magicka too. Free follow up lash!

Sanct16

Lash is actually a huge heal.

kadar

Toast_STS wrote: »

The power lash synergy costs 0 magicka too. Free follow up lash!

THAT, I did not know!

Sanct16 wrote: »

Lash is actually a huge heal.

Ya, I'm starting to get that impression. Sadly this means another one of my toons can't be easily swapped back and forth from PVE to PVP. Sigh...

BuggeX

Power lash, hell i never ever used the other Morph thought

Ghost-Shot

Lash for sure.

kadar

BuggeX wrote: »

Power lash, hell i never ever used the other Morph thought

The other morph is interesting. Adds 101 (i think?) spell damage to ardent flame abilities. So Whip, Embers, Engulfing flames, and Standard would all get a damage buff. Right now the consensus seems to be that the passive buff is outshined by the burst/heal from power lash in PVP. Kind of similar to how the damage from a proc set outshines the damage buff from an extra spell damage 1pc bonus.

PS: gotta update that sig and remove hashtag number 1 and 3.

RinaldoGandolphi

With the buff to coag blood IF you are using 3 or more Ardent Flame abilities then Molten Whip is better as it increases you overall damage output and a reg a Molten Whip attack can hit as hard as a proc Power Lash. If your sword and board and only using 1 or 2 Ardent abilities go Flame Lash, 3 or more Molten

iseko

Flame lash is best imho. Doing dmg while healing is awesome.

PandaIsAPotato

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

With the buff to coag blood IF you are using 3 or more Ardent Flame abilities then Molten Whip is better as it increases you overall damage output and a reg a Molten Whip attack can hit as hard as a proc Power Lash. If your sword and board and only using 1 or 2 Ardent abilities go Flame Lash, 3 or more Molten

You gotta remember Molten isn't free and the damage buff you get from it isn't very noticeable, Power Lash proc is free, and with a class that has issues with sustain already Lash is the way to go. I could see you running Molten if you went Light Armor for the damage combined with the spell penetration and such, but in a typical heavy armor set up Lash is the only viable option.

kadar

Thanks for these great responses, all. Much better than the all too common, "use 'x' cause meta."

Xvorg

Molten whip is just bad

101 extra spell dmg is nothing, consider that 75 thaum in a mDK is BIS even if you don't have dots (the exploiter star). If it was 200 or 250 extra spell dmg, it could be an option, but 101 spell dmg is just crap.

ZoM_Head

I use molten in pvp and pve, but then again i have nothing but Ardent Flame abilities on my main bar + burning talons.

Since we can properly heal now (finally) i went for a dot build and i am likling what i am seeing so far (still tweaking here and there).

But yes, dedicated pvpers should go for flame lash, but since i do both molten is my choice and for my build it is effective, power flash maybe free BUT you must set an enemy off balanced and against players it has a 5 second cooldown (talons + lash or petrify + lash or interruped ability + lash etc).

BTW molten's spell damage applies to all the Ardent Flame abilities including the banner ultimate.