Help with skill bars on mag sorc (pvp)

RT_Frank

Just leveled one up and I feel like my skills and rotation are all over the place. Additionally, I feel like I don't have enough skills to slot if I don't use Overload (and too many skills to handle if I do). Bascially, what skills are a must have and what would be my rotation? If it matters, I use destro/resto staves, bsw, infernal guardian, and seducers (would use lich but the RNG gods are just too cruel).

FriedEggSandwich

Assuming I start the fight I open with a charged up heavy and then press curse, then light attack into spammable if frags didn't proc (spammable = force pulse or mages wrath), light attack into frags as soon as it procs or wait a sec if you think your opponent is gonna dodge roll. Light attack into curse again as soon as the last one pops, it's important to minimise the downtime of this skill as it helps put pressure on your opponent. Light attack into spammable whenever curse is mid-timer and you don't have a frag proc or anything else to cast.

That is basically my rotaion, the exceptions are if I have a melee character in my face I will drop mines and light attack > streak through them to take the pressure off me and put me behind them. Also ward casts are essential either whenever one expires or when you start taking damage, depending on how much damage you take. As soon as I'm outnumbered I will drop atronach and mines and run around them trying to stay alive and identify the most squishy/clueless target.

On my overload bar I keep defensive rune, efficient purge, restraining prison/siege weapon shield/dark exchange, retreating manuveurs and hardened ward. I swap to my overload bar to ride anywhere so that I have access to rune and rapids.

In reality my rotation is regularly interrupted by bar swaps to access my wards. You should prioritise your wards over everything else, including that juicy execute that is just right there infront of you.

Biro123

Its always been the difficulty for sorcs. So many skills are must-haves.

Before you start, you need the 3 wards. To do your burst, you need curse and frags (and ideally wrath). You need a means of getting major sorcery (degeneration or surge). That's 6-7 used already.

Then its VERY hard not to use inner light (8)

Then you need mobility (streak and/or Boundless storm) (9-10)

And you may want to fit in a spammable too(crushing shock). This is all assuming no pets. If you're not using a spammable then you may as well go DW (but then with BSW, you'd struggle to proc it).


So. My suggestion would be:

Bar 1 (Destro)
Crushing Shock/Frags/Hardened Ward/Wrath/Inner Light EOTS

Bar 2 (Resto)
Healing Ward/LA ward (whichever morph)/surge/streak/Curse OVERLOAD

(or if you want to go a bit more defensive, or aren't used to the bar-swapping, drop wrath, move curse to front bar and slot either boundless or defensive rune on the back bar.

Hardened is on the front bar for both quick access - and regular casting for IG procs. With this, you'd run around on the back bar and to start a fight, pop surge, the LA morph, la/curse/barswap/CS+hardened until curse is needed again or frag procs or close to execute range.

Overload bar:
Rapids and Defensive rune (for travel). Hardened (for getting ganked while on horse), mines (utility), streak (I kind of use this for escaping too or just moving quickly on foot - hence along with rapids, streak is here too)

This is for solo pvp where you need your own mobility. If you're grouped with another source of Rapids, you could probably get away without the overload bar and use a 2n'd ulti instead.

This is the downside of magsorcs. The offence NEEDS the same set of skills. The defence NEEDS the same set of skills.. Anything outside of that is usually a toggle, needing to be on all bars - which means that pretty much all dd sorcs use the same 9 out of 10 skills. ofc. everyone tweaks it a little to their preference, bot the core of most magsorc setups are essentially the same.

RT_Frank

Thanks for the feedback! I think I understand what my rotations should be but I have some questions. How is defensive rune a skill for riding when using it gets you off your horse? Also, it seems that mines arn't really used unless you are getting ganked. Is this fair to say, because I thought I would replace boundless with mines on my back bar. Honestly, it seems like the overload bar is a travel/anti-gank bar but I could be wrong.

Biro123

Different people use the overload bar in different ways. My view is that the delay in activating it makes it clunky while under direct fire - but its useful if out of combat or if you've made distance - so for me I use it when..:

Travelling. Defensive rune lasts about 2 minutes iirc.. cast it before you get on your horse - then if you get ganked, it CC's the ganker - usually giving you time to get up and start shielding (remember getting knocked off your hoss is an unbreakable cc).

Prepping.. Foes are coming to a chokepoint. You have plenty of time to switch to overload to drop mines there.

Escaping(ed).. After making a bit of distance, switch to overload for rapids/more streaking/dropping mines either behind you or to prep a more favourable combat location.

Aside from that, I'm never really on the overload bar..

Some people like to camp on their mines - so use em a lot - which means keeping on one of the 2 main bars - I prefer to be more mobile, so its relegated to overload of me.

aLi3nZ

What I use:

Attack Rotation: Light attack, curse, light attack, crushing shock x2, frag, ultimate

Front bar:
Frags
Ward
Crushing shock
Curse
Streak or inner light
Eye of the storm

Back bar:
Mines or inner light
Power surge (keep active at all times)
Healing ward
Harness magika
Dark deal for stamina when needed
Soul assault

KBKB

With the ward timers in their current state. I find 3 ward's excessive personally. The LA ward went to the glue factory I could probably sub it in for boundless but I think in PvP if you have access to major ward you should use it. I go likeeee;

B1

Frags
Crushing shock
Cure
Hardened Ward
Inner light/Streak (it's nice to proc shards from stealth along with MG passives including empower)

Ulti on B1 actually changes a lot from EoF, Meteor, negate and Soul assault.

B2

Streak/inner light
Mines
Healing ward
Surge
Boundless storm

Ultimate Overload

Overload bar chops and changes a lot for myself also

Shards (pop mage light if you don't get insta hard cast from stealth with a overload light attack they hit at the same time absolute wrecker)

Mages fury
Mines/curse/rune
Ward (cause you need one on each bar)
Mage light/streak.

It's very situational as you can most likely see, why swap skills addon is great.

FriedEggSandwich

RT_Frank wrote: »

Thanks for the feedback! I think I understand what my rotations should be but I have some questions. How is defensive rune a skill for riding when using it gets you off your horse? Also, it seems that mines arn't really used unless you are getting ganked. Is this fair to say, because I thought I would replace boundless with mines on my back bar. Honestly, it seems like the overload bar is a travel/anti-gank bar but I could be wrong.

Defensive Rune lasts for a minute if it isn't triggered, which is enough for most journeys, and if not then dismounting every min to refresh it isn't the end of the world. Defensive Rune is also useful to shake off someone chasing you with gap closer. Couple of streaks > overload on > rune > overload off and back to streaking. The next gap closer they cast will stun your opponent giving you time to streak out of range.

Mines are strongest used as an anti-melee measure; there's little point in using them against a ranged opponent. I place mines when I have someone doing damage in my face because they make the ground around you hostile. Mines can also be used as a kind of aoe; I like to streak into a group, hit mines and animation cancel them with a dodge roll to avoid inevitable agro, then streak back out to safety. Personally I would choose mines over boundless storm if you also have 3 wards. I use both boundless and mines on my back bar but I don't use harness magicka (something I don't recommend). Mines are something you want access to at all times, unless you're duelling another sorc. The more you use them the more uses you will find for them. So what I'm saying is make room for mines over boundless.

RT_Frank

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

Mines are strongest used as an anti-melee measure; there's little point in using them against a ranged opponent. I place mines when I have someone doing damage in my face because they make the ground around you hostile. Mines can also be used as a kind of aoe; I like to streak into a group, hit mines and animation cancel them with a dodge roll to avoid inevitable agro, then streak back out to safety. Personally I would choose mines over boundless storm if you also have 3 wards. I use both boundless and mines on my back bar but I don't use harness magicka (something I don't recommend). Mines are something you want access to at all times, unless you're duelling another sorc. The more you use them the more uses you will find for them. So what I'm saying is make room for mines over boundless.

Interesting, I have mines on my back bar for those same reasons. I just don't understand the importance of having a third ward when they last only for a few seconds. I have trouble having to have even 2 wards always up while doing everything else, much less 3. I did put my third ward, harness, on my overload bar in case I do want to have 3 wards up (probably when I get ganked). My backbar has boundless storm which I prefer much more than harness. I also have mages fury on my back bar only because I switched it with streak which is now in my front bar. However, I am deciding on removing mages fury since it doesn't seem useful pvp (typically at below 20% people either die instantly or heal instantly). If I do, I am thinking of either putting harness there so that I get easy access to 3 wards and boundless, or move streak to the back and put inner light in the front (mostly because I don't know how useful it is putting inner light in the back bar.

RT_Frank

Also want to note that because I just leveled up this character, my mage's guild level is low (only 2). I am too lazy to want to get another character to 10 so I would not get any of the mage's guild passives by slotting inner light.

FriedEggSandwich

RT_Frank wrote: »

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

Mines are strongest used as an anti-melee measure; there's little point in using them against a ranged opponent. I place mines when I have someone doing damage in my face because they make the ground around you hostile. Mines can also be used as a kind of aoe; I like to streak into a group, hit mines and animation cancel them with a dodge roll to avoid inevitable agro, then streak back out to safety. Personally I would choose mines over boundless storm if you also have 3 wards. I use both boundless and mines on my back bar but I don't use harness magicka (something I don't recommend). Mines are something you want access to at all times, unless you're duelling another sorc. The more you use them the more uses you will find for them. So what I'm saying is make room for mines over boundless.

Interesting, I have mines on my back bar for those same reasons. I just don't understand the importance of having a third ward when they last only for a few seconds. I have trouble having to have even 2 wards always up while doing everything else, much less 3. I did put my third ward, harness, on my overload bar in case I do want to have 3 wards up (probably when I get ganked). My backbar has boundless storm which I prefer much more than harness. I also have mages fury on my back bar only because I switched it with streak which is now in my front bar. However, I am deciding on removing mages fury since it doesn't seem useful pvp (typically at below 20% people either die instantly or heal instantly). If I do, I am thinking of either putting harness there so that I get easy access to 3 wards and boundless, or move streak to the back and put inner light in the front (mostly because I don't know how useful it is putting inner light in the back bar.

Most sorcs use the 3rd ward to give themselves more time on offence, but there are other ways of achieving the same goal. I would say if you're not finding you need harness then don't force it. I agree that keeping 3 wards up is a faff, which is why I use boundless instead. For this to work I have found that I need to wear a couple of pieces of heavy, 7 impen, defending resto and take the vamp undeath passive. With boundless storm up on my back bar I have 23k resistances which helps take the panic out of a ward cast. If you wear all light armour you might find you go down too quickly without harness.

Personally I would never be without fury/wrath in pvp, I use it as my spammable instead of force pulse. It shortens most fights and can end many prematurely. I would also never use mage light in pvp. I think you havr the right idea with streak on front bar; it's an offensive skill after all These are personal preference though really rather than "no brainers".

RT_Frank

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

Most sorcs use the 3rd ward to give themselves more time on offence, but there are other ways of achieving the same goal. I would say if you're not finding you need harness then don't force it. I agree that keeping 3 wards up is a faff, which is why I use boundless instead. For this to work I have found that I need to wear a couple of pieces of heavy, 7 impen, defending resto and take the vamp undeath passive. With boundless storm up on my back bar I have 23k resistances which helps take the panic out of a ward cast. If you wear all light armour you might find you go down too quickly without harness.

Personally I would never be without fury/wrath in pvp, I use it as my spammable instead of force pulse. It shortens most fights and can end many prematurely. I would also never use mage light in pvp. I think you havr the right idea with streak on front bar; it's an offensive skill after all These are personal preference though really rather than "no brainers".

That is exactly what I have. I have two pieces of heavy armor, all impen, defending resto, and undeath passive. I guess I never used mages fury correctly if that is the case. Then again it is on my back bar in order to put streak on my front bar, which I mostly did in order to immediately nope out of a sticky situation. Quick question, I feel like I am using eye of flame incorrectly. Whenever it is available, I just pop wards, streak into a group, and use it while spamming mines and wards to stay alive. I'm guessing this is wrong considering I am supposed to fight at a distance, but I feel like most sorcs use this method. I am kinda eyeing the alternative morph which would let me place the ult down at a distance, but I also know that stationary aoes are not effective in pvp.

FriedEggSandwich

RT_Frank wrote: »

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

Most sorcs use the 3rd ward to give themselves more time on offence, but there are other ways of achieving the same goal. I would say if you're not finding you need harness then don't force it. I agree that keeping 3 wards up is a faff, which is why I use boundless instead. For this to work I have found that I need to wear a couple of pieces of heavy, 7 impen, defending resto and take the vamp undeath passive. With boundless storm up on my back bar I have 23k resistances which helps take the panic out of a ward cast. If you wear all light armour you might find you go down too quickly without harness.

Personally I would never be without fury/wrath in pvp, I use it as my spammable instead of force pulse. It shortens most fights and can end many prematurely. I would also never use mage light in pvp. I think you havr the right idea with streak on front bar; it's an offensive skill after all These are personal preference though really rather than "no brainers".

That is exactly what I have. I have two pieces of heavy armor, all impen, defending resto, and undeath passive. I guess I never used mages fury correctly if that is the case. Then again it is on my back bar in order to put streak on my front bar, which I mostly did in order to immediately nope out of a sticky situation. Quick question, I feel like I am using eye of flame incorrectly. Whenever it is available, I just pop wards, streak into a group, and use it while spamming mines and wards to stay alive. I'm guessing this is wrong considering I am supposed to fight at a distance, but I feel like most sorcs use this method. I am kinda eyeing the alternative morph which would let me place the ult down at a distance, but I also know that stationary aoes are not effective in pvp.

Nice to see another sorc opting for mitigation over shield size Most people don't believe me when I tell them it works. You do lose some damage but you can make it up by stacking penetration, using combat prayer and/or vulnerability poisons. I find it's also easier to sustain with heavy seducers than with light lich, not sure if that has anything to do with heavy armour passives or just that seducer 5 piece is better than lich 5 piece.

I value mages wrath more than force pulse/crushing shock and so use it instead. I just use wrath whenever I would have used force pulse, which is as more of a dps filler than spammable; I cast it when no other skill is appropriate but need to cast something to proc frags. Using wrath like this means that when you do drop your opponent into execute range chances are you already cast wrath less than 4s ago, meaning they just explode. It's perfectly possible to use both force pulse and wrath though. Check out ForceSiphon on twitch, he pvps in all light armour and uses 3 wards. He also makes good use of both crushing shock and mages wrath, I can't remember what else he sacrifises apart from boundless, but he seems to have all the tools he needs.

I use streak in a similar fashion (dps filler), although streak has more of a tactical use during combat to help set up burst and interrupt your opponent's routine. When curse was blockable streak was useful to persuade your target not to block as curse exploded, but it's generally useful to remove yourself from heat and put you back on the offensive behind your opponent. It can help you land a frags. I also use streak to stun my target for about as long as it takes for mines to arm, to stop them just walking out of mines before they arm. I feel like I need streak on my front bar, it's a useful skill and you can afford to use it once or twice every 4s. Having said that; bar swapping is pretty quick when you animation cancel with it and it doesn't make much difference whether you front or back bar something as long as the decision makes sense to you and you get used to it. I just like streak on my front bar so I can use it in my main rotation if needed.

I don't use the destro ult, I prefer my atro or a negate if running in a group. But the eye morph can be used like bats to move with people, or like atronach when you need to stand your ground. The rage morph can also be used when you need to stand your ground, but can also be used like negate at choke points.