REQ for Root cool down

kaithuzar

@Rohaus ,

I think many are in agreeance with what was stated, & while I have no issues with fengrush himself, can you reword your original paragraph so that it doesn't sound like you're just being a fanboy?

kuro-dono

mistform is so ridiculously op skill that its unbeliviable. Vampires buff by nature in pvp are ridiculous when talking about duo to 4 man up to 12 man small scalers all being vampires. pro raids mostly consist of vampires only except possibly healer.

Kutsuu

kuro-dono wrote: »

mistform is so ridiculously op skill that its unbeliviable. Vampires buff by nature in pvp are ridiculous when talking about duo to 4 man up to 12 man small scalers all being vampires. pro raids mostly consist of vampires only except possibly healer.

LFG for vampire pro raid, I am vamp 10 and have mist form on both bars PST

KisoValley

I assume he's trolling cause he said mist form is OP lol.

Derra

KisoValley wrote: »

I assume he's trolling cause he said mist form is OP lol.

For smaller encounters where you don´t get spammed with gapclosers it´s really strong - especially for heavy armor and templars that still retain decent magica regeneration even while in mistform.

Ishammael

Joy_Division wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Armitas wrote: »

I think we need to look at this on an individual basis because a ranged root and a melee root have a lot of differences on the side. For example...

• Difference 1. A ranged root can be immediately reapplied because the target never leaves the area of threat by rolling out of the root. That isn't the case for a melee root. A melee root puts the caster at risk by virtue of it's range, and when the target rolls out of it, he rolls out of the area of threat. For the caster to recast the root he has to gap close and recast. Talons is one of the more expensive skills on the DK, and the gap closer isn't cheap either making it a very costly combo to spam against a fleeing target.
  
• Difference 2. A ranged root prevents all melee damage. A melee root does not prevent any damage, it prevents escape.
  
• Difference 3 Melee roots come with full risk, Ranged roots come with no risk because the intent and purpose of it is to avoid risk.
  
• Note While Talons without immunity is not an essential part of PvE tanking, it is a very convenient part that people are very accustomed too

So I don't think that a global solution would be accurate to the problem.

One of the immediate concerns I would have as a DK with a talon immunity is what am I getting out of my root that is immediately rolled out of? I'm not getting a root, I'm not getting the dot out of burning talons so what am I getting for such a large cost skill? I'm putting myself at high risk on the front line to root so what reward did I get out of that investment in risk?

I hate roots and snares as much as the next person, but I would encourage everyone - including the devs - to read and reread this before anything happens with roots.

The NB 28 meters away spamming Cripple is way more abusive than a DK spamming talons.

But this also gets us into the kind of hairy position of: What if DK ever gets a vaible gapcloser (which they desperately need imo)? - Most likely non mobile builds will never be able to leave the talonspam again. Especially magica builds.

However i think snares are more of a problem than roots are. I´d probably convert snares into the major minor buff system having a minor 10% snare and a major 30% snare that can stack - and thats it.
Maximum of 40% snare in total. Implement this without changing roots and see how it works out (and eventually alter the snare duration on certain abilities).

Hmm...my reply to all these prognostications that DKs will be the FOTM is call me and the thousands of people who quit playing when it actually happens.

I still see a fundamental difference between a melee root and a ranged root. People may have put the bombard spam meta in some dark, forgotten region of their brain, but I have not. The sorc encase is this weird middle ground, but as it is ridiculously expensive and ridiculously narrow AoE (that somehow can be dodged), I don't have a problem with it.

To be honest, the only issue I have with DK roots is that they do not allow my templar to face in the correct direction to use biting jabs. As long as ZoS fixed that, I don't give a hoot what they do to DKs.

I do agree with you about snares. I do not enjoy that my default movement speed is -40%. Anything larger than 50% is ridiculous and should be reserved for ultimates. And this even goes for PvE. Moving at 10% of your speed in vMA makes me want to throw my computer out the window.

Agree on facing direction with roots. If you're rooted you should be able to turn and hit someone even if you can move. I think this would solve many problems.

Agree on snares. Major/minor is likely a good strategy.

Rohaus

I do like the idea mentioned of a POT that gave your root and snare immunity.

Also, how about giving DK's an ability like dragon leap only it allowed them to dragon leap away from the Zerg. GG The ability would be a circle castable on the ground and it would use magicka and have the cost requirement increase just like streak. You could call the ability Dragon Skurd.

BlackMadara

A root immunity of 4 to 5 seconds would make roots essentially useless. A single dodge roll for such a long immunity is nonsense. In comparison, break free gives 6 seconds of immunity at the cost of 5k ish stamina.

If a root immunity was added, it would have to come with a stamina cost increase of dodging out of the root, or would have to be 1 to 2 seconds long. For a short immunity, you would prevent permaroot but keep them viable. A second or two would give enough time to repostion without making roots useless.

Ps. Get rid of the gap closer snare

Sharee

BlackMadara wrote: »

A root immunity of 4 to 5 seconds would make roots essentially useless. A single dodge roll for such a long immunity is nonsense. In comparison, break free gives 6 seconds of immunity at the cost of 5k ish stamina.

Just a technicality: break free gives 8 seconds of immunity. You can see the immunity swirls begin at 0:08 and they are still visible at 0:16 and completely fade at 0:17.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79eXynuGcbg



The shorter immunity (5 seconds) comes from not breaking free and letting the CC expire on it's own.

BlackMadara

Sharee wrote: »

BlackMadara wrote: »

A root immunity of 4 to 5 seconds would make roots essentially useless. A single dodge roll for such a long immunity is nonsense. In comparison, break free gives 6 seconds of immunity at the cost of 5k ish stamina.

Just a technicality: break free gives 8 seconds of immunity. You can see the immunity swirls begin at 0:08 and they are still visible at 0:16 and completely fade at 0:17.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79eXynuGcbg



The shorter immunity (5 seconds) comes from not breaking free and letting the CC expire on it's own.

Ah good to know. Thanks

pieratsos

Waffennacht wrote: »

Manoekin wrote: »

There's many times where I can't even cleanse a root/snare on me even though I'm removing 5 for each cast. There is simply so many debuffs that go on you in PvP. Something similar to bombard needs to happen to all roots, and snares should be capped at 50% move speed. The time where you're literally just locked in place for eternity needs to end, and a small root immunity wouldn't hurt your ability to break someone's sustain imo. We shouldn't be pigeonholed into specific builds just so that we can have control over them during a fight. If you just can't move your character for the majority of fights then the game is broken and not fun IMO.

If you're removing 5 abilities to your one you're getting insane efficiency and draining massive resources from multiple opponents.

Why would you think if 5 players that are targeting one opponent he should be able to ignore all 5s abilities?

The dev team said it themselves: if you're out numbered you're going to have a hard time.

Everyone knows that they will have a hard time when they are outnumbered. No one is playing solo expecting to kill everyone easily. But what they do expect is to be able to at least fight back. Which is kind of hard to do when u cant even move because people are spamming encase, talons, low slash and lotus fan.

FearlessOne_2014

Lol I honestly think that there should be no CD on root. Here me out up untill the point ZOS announced the mDK was getting buffed. Everyone was fine with their easy mode Stam HA Proc builds or their Stam Gankblade roots.

ZOS just don't fall for it yet again. These are people who feel only their easy mode builds should dominate PvP, and that everyone else should adapt their playstyle only. As a person who know has and played all of the Classes and Roles at Max level. I can tell you if you put a CD on roots to nuke the non moble magicka DK, but don't put a Global CD on proc sets. You will see more people leave.

Roots are a decent if not the only counter MagickaDK DDs have against the Proc Set Gankers. Please do not make the game any less enjoyable then it already is for the sake of people who are not at all interested in balance but in campaigning to make their playstyle the only viable playstyle or the absolute META.

If roots gets a Global CD then you absolutely must give the proc sets a Global CD to balance them. I can't think of how many times instead of being killed in 1 to 3 secs by a gankblade, I instead was able to give myself another 5 to 10 sec fighting chance and in some cases was able to root and kill them. Global CD on roots without implementing a Global CD on Proc Sets just makes the Proc Sets more OP then they are now on most builds.

cschwingeb14_ESO

The only way roots could have immunity like hard CC would be to change it so that dodge rolling did not break roots. The is no way that even 3s of immunity wouldn't completely make roots useless.

Dodge roll cost penalty resets after 4 sec. It's simple math. And the is no way that the player base is going to like a change where roots are not broken by dodge roll

I'm not against roots being more effective, and having an immunity window. But root vs anti-root gameplay needs to be well thought out. Currently the framework for that is incomplete (magicka needs a shuffle, among other things)

pieratsos

cschwingeb14_ESO wrote: »

The only way roots could have immunity like hard CC would be to change it so that dodge rolling did not break roots. The is no way that even 3s of immunity wouldn't completely make roots useless.

Dodge roll cost penalty resets after 4 sec. It's simple math. And the is no way that the player base is going to like a change where roots are not broken by dodge roll

I'm not against roots being more effective, and having an immunity window. But root vs anti-root gameplay needs to be well thought out. Currently the framework for that is incomplete (magicka needs a shuffle, among other things)

Putting a cooldown on roots and snares isnt gonna make them useless if u are using ur roots to close the gap or keep someone in place to land a burst combo or to get some time to recover. And thats how they should be used. Skillfully. They will only become useless when people abuse the crap out of them so you cant even move.

Its either a cooldown or rework every single root/snare in the game cause right now half the abilities in the game have a damn snare attached to them even if it doesnt make any sense. And most of them snare you for way too much and way too long. Why on earth do u need a 60% snare that lasts 10 seconds on gap closers and spammable abilities. Thats just completely broken.

Rohaus

Summary:

Buff Mag DK for greater survival and greater DOT damage.

After buff, implement root CD of 6 seconds.

Result = more fluid game play and a better gaming experience as a result.

Payout = NO MORE MOLASSES

BlackMadara

Rohaus wrote: »

Summary:

Buff Mag DK for greater survival and greater DOT damage.

After buff, implement root CD of 6 seconds.

Result = more fluid game play and a better gaming experience as a result.

Payout = NO MORE MOLASSES

A six second root cd would make roots essentially useless. Dodge rolling costs considerably less stamina than cc break. You would need to increase the cost of rolling out of a root, and even then, shuffle and mist form would be incredibly strong in conparison.

Dyride

I think a 0.5-1 sec cooldown if purged or rolled out is sufficient.

Also a root cannot be reapplied until duration has lapsed. This puts skillful play back on the person rooting.

Toc de Malsvi

Could just make roots last for 2 seconds and not be able to roll out. Then grant an immunity window. That way you can't spam them but they would still be very useful and strong. Players could choose whether to break free or not, but couldn't just spam dodge roll.

Another option is to have stacking increase in cost for root effects, just as they have done with other skill spamming abuse.

Rohaus

Hmm... well, after reading the PTS patch notes... it doesn't look like Mag DK is getting the kind of buffs that I thought they were going to get...

Here's to hoping that there is an additional update coming on the PTS that will do something more for Mag DK...

They actually nerfed Standard of Might...

I like some of the changes for Mag DK.... but none of it appears to be substantial.

Saint_Bud

I havent a problem with meele roots. I think the damage from talons a bit to high. I dislike a ranged root much more that can be spamed at full range and makes damage. I dont think that talons with a gabcloser would a problem, because we played it over a year and it was fine. All classes were designed for a specific gameplay, Dk and templar for standing the ground in there ways and sorc and nb for mobility. But as you see on templar, the main defence skill blayzing shield is now complete brocken.
For snares they should have a buff systhem like evrething else.
sry for bad eng