A stealth hunter skill/mechanic is needed

Solariken

Cyrodiil has become a sea of stealthers. More now than at any time in this game's past that I can remember, it seems that the number of players who live in stealth might be nearing a majority. When I ride between a captured keep and an enemy keep at primetime, I sometimes pass 15-20 stealthing allies, most of which are gankers, and who knows how many enemy stealthers are lurking about.

Now I don't mind stealth gameplay in general, although I think stealth is over-tuned in ESO. However, instead of nerfing stealth, we need a new mechanic: STEALTH HUNTER. Here's how I think it could work.

1. Rework Expert Hunter (Fighters Guild) to give stealth hunter capability instead of the current stealth reveal (which doesn't seem to work anyway). Provide one stamina morph and one magicka morph.
2. The skill behaves similarly to Shadow Cloak - activation lasts for 3 seconds each cast.
3. Upon activation, you are still visible to anyone NOT stealthed, but INvisible to anyone who IS stealthed/invisible. In addition, you can now see anyone who is stealthed/invisible at the same distance as if you were both out in the open, even though they cannot see you at all.

No longer can you move freely through the fields with shadowy impunity - the hunters shall become the hunted!

@ZOS_BrianWheeler @Wrobel @ZOS_RichLambert

yodased

So your idea to defeat stealth is to stealth in another form.

I get that you are upset about being ganked, it sucks, but you are basically eliminating a class from the game at this point.

AzuraKin

Solariken wrote: »

Cyrodiil has become a sea of stealthers. More now than at any time in this game's past that I can remember, it seems that the number of players who live in stealth might be nearing a majority. When I ride between a captured keep and an enemy keep at primetime, I sometimes pass 15-20 stealthing allies, most of which are gankers, and who knows how many enemy stealthers are lurking about.

Now I don't mind stealth gameplay in general, although I think stealth is over-tuned in ESO. However, instead of nerfing stealth, we need a new mechanic: STEALTH HUNTER. Here's how I think it could work.

1. Rework Expert Hunter (Fighters Guild) to give stealth hunter capability instead of the current stealth reveal (which doesn't seem to work anyway). Provide one stamina morph and one magicka morph.
2. The skill behaves similarly to Shadow Cloak - activation lasts for 3 seconds each cast.
3. Upon activation, you are still visible to anyone NOT stealthed, but INvisible to anyone who IS stealthed/invisible. In addition, you can now see anyone who is stealthed/invisible at the same distance as if you were both out in the open, even though they cannot see you at all.

No longer can you move freely through the fields with shadowy impunity - the hunters shall become the hunted!

@ZOs_BrianWheeler @Wrobel @ZOS_RichLambert

no. stealth is there for a reason, surprised attacks, and ther many counters to stealhed players. 1. flare from pvp skill tree, undaunted ability and inner light both add to detect stealthed players range, you can see players based on various factors by stumpling across them, any aoe will pull them out of stealth, and piercing mark morph of mark target nb skill, detect potions. think that is all but if i missed one someone will post it.

FleetwoodSmack

AzuraKin wrote: »

Solariken wrote: »

Cyrodiil has become a sea of stealthers. More now than at any time in this game's past that I can remember, it seems that the number of players who live in stealth might be nearing a majority. When I ride between a captured keep and an enemy keep at primetime, I sometimes pass 15-20 stealthing allies, most of which are gankers, and who knows how many enemy stealthers are lurking about.

Now I don't mind stealth gameplay in general, although I think stealth is over-tuned in ESO. However, instead of nerfing stealth, we need a new mechanic: STEALTH HUNTER. Here's how I think it could work.

1. Rework Expert Hunter (Fighters Guild) to give stealth hunter capability instead of the current stealth reveal (which doesn't seem to work anyway). Provide one stamina morph and one magicka morph.
2. The skill behaves similarly to Shadow Cloak - activation lasts for 3 seconds each cast.
3. Upon activation, you are still visible to anyone NOT stealthed, but INvisible to anyone who IS stealthed/invisible. In addition, you can now see anyone who is stealthed/invisible at the same distance as if you were both out in the open, even though they cannot see you at all.

No longer can you move freely through the fields with shadowy impunity - the hunters shall become the hunted!

@ZOs_BrianWheeler @Wrobel @ZOS_RichLambert

no. stealth is there for a reason, surprised attacks, and ther many counters to stealhed players. 1. flare from pvp skill tree, undaunted ability and inner light both add to detect stealthed players range, you can see players based on various factors by stumpling across them, any aoe will pull them out of stealth, and piercing mark morph of mark target nb skill, detect potions. think that is all but if i missed one someone will post it.

*coughcoughinfernalguardiancoughcough*

Solariken

AzuraKin wrote: »

Solariken wrote: »

Cyrodiil has become a sea of stealthers. More now than at any time in this game's past that I can remember, it seems that the number of players who live in stealth might be nearing a majority. When I ride between a captured keep and an enemy keep at primetime, I sometimes pass 15-20 stealthing allies, most of which are gankers, and who knows how many enemy stealthers are lurking about.

Now I don't mind stealth gameplay in general, although I think stealth is over-tuned in ESO. However, instead of nerfing stealth, we need a new mechanic: STEALTH HUNTER. Here's how I think it could work.

1. Rework Expert Hunter (Fighters Guild) to give stealth hunter capability instead of the current stealth reveal (which doesn't seem to work anyway). Provide one stamina morph and one magicka morph.
2. The skill behaves similarly to Shadow Cloak - activation lasts for 3 seconds each cast.
3. Upon activation, you are still visible to anyone NOT stealthed, but INvisible to anyone who IS stealthed/invisible. In addition, you can now see anyone who is stealthed/invisible at the same distance as if you were both out in the open, even though they cannot see you at all.

No longer can you move freely through the fields with shadowy impunity - the hunters shall become the hunted!

@ZOs_BrianWheeler @Wrobel @ZOS_RichLambert

no. stealth is there for a reason, surprised attacks, and ther many counters to stealhed players. 1. flare from pvp skill tree, undaunted ability and inner light both add to detect stealthed players range, you can see players based on various factors by stumpling across them, any aoe will pull them out of stealth, and piercing mark morph of mark target nb skill, detect potions. think that is all but if i missed one someone will post it.

Yeah, stealth will still be valuable, but it needs a true counter. There are currently zero drawbacks to using stealth. Zero. And like I said in the OP, there are just too many people stealthing, not enough open world PvP is actually happening.

Solariken

yodased wrote: »

So your idea to defeat stealth is to stealth in another form.

I get that you are upset about being ganked, it sucks, but you are basically eliminating a class from the game at this point.

Yes exactly, stealth that is only strong against stealth. I very rarely get ganked, it's not about that. It's about the fact that everyone is hiding. Why would anyone oppose this idea? The opportunity to gank other gankers? Sounds fun AF to me.

FleetwoodSmack

Solariken wrote: »

yodased wrote: »

So your idea to defeat stealth is to stealth in another form.

I get that you are upset about being ganked, it sucks, but you are basically eliminating a class from the game at this point.

Yes exactly, stealth that is only strong against stealth. I very rarely get thanked, it's not about that. It's about the fact that everyone is hiding. Why would anyone oppose this idea? The opportunity to gank other gankers? Sounds fun AF to me.

I think it's mostly because there are counters to it (true or not, these counters still exist and they're pretty effective). I mean I rarely die to ganks anymore, and when I do it's usually because I derp, I'm not prepared for it, or I go back into the noob mentality of "WTF DO I DO?!" To which, I commend them that they caught me off guard. But really, how it goes right now? Cloak is pretty darn broken. I never slot it on my NB anymore.

The reason why there's no overworld PvP happening is not due to ganks/stealthers. It's due to population caps and people not playing the map (IE; AP farming Sejanus)

AzuraKin

IndyWendieGo wrote: »

Solariken wrote: »

yodased wrote: »

So your idea to defeat stealth is to stealth in another form.

I get that you are upset about being ganked, it sucks, but you are basically eliminating a class from the game at this point.

Yes exactly, stealth that is only strong against stealth. I very rarely get thanked, it's not about that. It's about the fact that everyone is hiding. Why would anyone oppose this idea? The opportunity to gank other gankers? Sounds fun AF to me.

I think it's mostly because there are counters to it (true or not, these counters still exist and they're pretty effective). I mean I rarely die to ganks anymore, and when I do it's usually because I derp, I'm not prepared for it, or I go back into the noob mentality of "WTF DO I DO?!" To which, I commend them that they caught me off guard. But really, how it goes right now? Cloak is pretty darn broken. I never slot it on my NB anymore.

The reason why there's no overworld PvP happening is not due to ganks/stealthers. It's due to population caps and people not playing the map (IE; AP farming Sejanus)

its actually not worth fighting in middle of no where. its better to either fight defensively on your grounds for dticks, or fight offensively and take keeps from the enemy.

Sandman929

I think it sounds interesting, but it kind of gives me a headache. Someone in stealth would still be stealthed to people not in stealth, but if someone used this ability they wouldn't be in stealth to the people who weren't in stealth, but they would be in stealth to the people who were stealthed.
If I crouched into stealth and cast this ability would I be in stealth to people not in stealth and people in stealth?
A solo stalker would have fun ganking gankers with this, but really what you're describing (if activating this ability shows people in stealth at the same distance as if you were both in the open) is just a giant reveal to be used by groups.
There would be no more stealth if a button push removes it even temporarily .

Fudly_budly

From the original Sniper movie: "One bullet, one kill."
I roll an NB bosmer archer and i live to kill you without ever being seen. It's my adrenaline rush.
However, I'm an AP pez dispenser in a stand up fight. I'm not going to play to your advantage if I can help it. If you run around alone... my advantage. Paper, rock, scissor. Watch those boulders along the road 'cause I'm there waiting or maybe not hehehe....

FleetwoodSmack

AzuraKin wrote: »

IndyWendieGo wrote: »

Solariken wrote: »

yodased wrote: »

So your idea to defeat stealth is to stealth in another form.

I get that you are upset about being ganked, it sucks, but you are basically eliminating a class from the game at this point.

Yes exactly, stealth that is only strong against stealth. I very rarely get thanked, it's not about that. It's about the fact that everyone is hiding. Why would anyone oppose this idea? The opportunity to gank other gankers? Sounds fun AF to me.

I think it's mostly because there are counters to it (true or not, these counters still exist and they're pretty effective). I mean I rarely die to ganks anymore, and when I do it's usually because I derp, I'm not prepared for it, or I go back into the noob mentality of "WTF DO I DO?!" To which, I commend them that they caught me off guard. But really, how it goes right now? Cloak is pretty darn broken. I never slot it on my NB anymore.

The reason why there's no overworld PvP happening is not due to ganks/stealthers. It's due to population caps and people not playing the map (IE; AP farming Sejanus)

its actually not worth fighting in middle of no where. its better to either fight defensively on your grounds for dticks, or fight offensively and take keeps from the enemy.

Yeah, that's what I try to do instead. Though there aaaaare those people that just... Why they fight there is beyond me. I could understand if it was the IC. But Cyrodiil? I'd fight at the Chalamo any given day over that bridge near Sejanus.

Solariken

IndyWendieGo wrote: »

Solariken wrote: »

yodased wrote: »

So your idea to defeat stealth is to stealth in another form.

I get that you are upset about being ganked, it sucks, but you are basically eliminating a class from the game at this point.

Yes exactly, stealth that is only strong against stealth. I very rarely get thanked, it's not about that. It's about the fact that everyone is hiding. Why would anyone oppose this idea? The opportunity to gank other gankers? Sounds fun AF to me.

I think it's mostly because there are counters to it (true or not, these counters still exist and they're pretty effective). I mean I rarely die to ganks anymore, and when I do it's usually because I derp, I'm not prepared for it, or I go back into the noob mentality of "WTF DO I DO?!" To which, I commend them that they caught me off guard. But really, how it goes right now? Cloak is pretty darn broken. I never slot it on my NB anymore.

The reason why there's no overworld PvP happening is not due to ganks/stealthers. It's due to population caps and people not playing the map (IE; AP farming Sejanus)

Cloak needs fixed for sure, tons of problems with it. And yes, there are soft/mild counters to stealth currently, but none that are proactive (except that busted Infernal Guardian).

But what I find cool about the idea is that it would present a real danger for anyone to be caught off guard. I think it's fine if half of Cyrodiil wants to crouch around the battlefield, but if you choose that playstyle there should still be a danger to you.

It's not like stealth gameplay will go away if there is a hunter mechanic. There still would have to be a player running around spamming this skill to stay hidden from you and then see you and run you down. Remember you can still see them between casts and it's probably not practical for them to keep 100% uptime on it. Additionally, they are still in full view of non-stealthed enemies and vulnerable to their attack.

Sigtric

I can smell the servers burning,

As hundreds of people pop Stealth Hunter
Server checks to see who is around the player within range.
Server runs additional checks: Friendly? Excluded from revealing
More checks. Who needs to be revealed? Who needs to still be able to see player that popped Stealth Hunter?

Go fire up the Keurig. True Flame will return to it's normal programming after the meltdown.

FleetwoodSmack

Solariken wrote: »

IndyWendieGo wrote: »

Solariken wrote: »

yodased wrote: »

So your idea to defeat stealth is to stealth in another form.

I get that you are upset about being ganked, it sucks, but you are basically eliminating a class from the game at this point.

Yes exactly, stealth that is only strong against stealth. I very rarely get thanked, it's not about that. It's about the fact that everyone is hiding. Why would anyone oppose this idea? The opportunity to gank other gankers? Sounds fun AF to me.

I think it's mostly because there are counters to it (true or not, these counters still exist and they're pretty effective). I mean I rarely die to ganks anymore, and when I do it's usually because I derp, I'm not prepared for it, or I go back into the noob mentality of "WTF DO I DO?!" To which, I commend them that they caught me off guard. But really, how it goes right now? Cloak is pretty darn broken. I never slot it on my NB anymore.

The reason why there's no overworld PvP happening is not due to ganks/stealthers. It's due to population caps and people not playing the map (IE; AP farming Sejanus)

Cloak needs fixed for sure, tons of problems with it. And yes, there are soft/mild counters to stealth currently, but none that are proactive (except that busted Infernal Guardian).

But what I find cool about the idea is that it would present a real danger for anyone to be caught off guard. I think it's fine if half of Cyrodiil wants to crouch around the battlefield, but if you choose that playstyle there should still be a danger to you.

It's not like stealth gameplay will go away if there is a hunter mechanic. There still would have to be a player running around spamming this skill to stay hidden from you and then see you and run you down. Remember you can still see them between casts and it's probably not practical for them to keep 100% uptime on it. Additionally, they are still in full view of non-stealthed enemies and vulnerable to their attack.

Honestly, stealth just has no incentive. It doesn't have drawbacks, but it also isn't fully reliable. A ganker has to choose their kill. At least any GOOD ganker. They take on targets of opportunity, though some are a target of choice. Those being AFKers, those that are halfway gone on health, sprinting on a horse (which most of the time a ganker is going to have a bad time if the victim is good and properly equipped).. I mean in this meta, gankers are just mildly annoying. That's a vast drawback there. If they're wearing anything BUT heavy? They're going to be dead unless they get in fast and do the job quick. And that's where a skilled ganker makes their kill. Fast to throw some bursts and quickly get out of there before the rest of the party realizes.

Personally, it doesn't feel like it's something needed. I mean Piercing Mark not being able to be cleansed? That's a pretty hard counter right there. That's 27 seconds of unstealthiness right there. Add that into your idea and that's just tips the scale even further away from proper balance imo. Add Scorching Flare and that'll definitely cause some pain on a Nightblade.

Instead, increase stealth detection. Draw them out of stealth instead of being stealthed to them and are able to SEE them. Cause those two things? I can see more QQ over that than what's currently happening.

Solariken

Sigtric wrote: »

I can smell the servers burning,

As hundreds of people pop Stealth Hunter
Server checks to see who is around the player within range.
Server runs additional checks: Friendly? Excluded from revealing
More checks. Who needs to be revealed? Who needs to still be able to see player that popped Stealth Hunter?

Go fire up the Keurig. True Flame will return to it's normal programming after the meltdown.

@Sigtric what if I told you the server already currently does this with vampires and werewolves just for slotting the Expert Hunter? Your argument is invalid.

Sigtric

Solariken wrote: »

Sigtric wrote: »

I can smell the servers burning,

As hundreds of people pop Stealth Hunter
Server checks to see who is around the player within range.
Server runs additional checks: Friendly? Excluded from revealing
More checks. Who needs to be revealed? Who needs to still be able to see player that popped Stealth Hunter?

Go fire up the Keurig. True Flame will return to it's normal programming after the meltdown.

@Sigtric what if I told you the server already currently does this with vampires and werewolves just for slotting the Expert Hunter? Your argument is invalid.

I know it does this with various skills

It is valid though because it is additional checks, for something that can really be accomplished with some detect pots or flare/radiant magelight, already in the game.

Solariken

Sigtric wrote: »

Solariken wrote: »

Sigtric wrote: »

I can smell the servers burning,

As hundreds of people pop Stealth Hunter
Server checks to see who is around the player within range.
Server runs additional checks: Friendly? Excluded from revealing
More checks. Who needs to be revealed? Who needs to still be able to see player that popped Stealth Hunter?

Go fire up the Keurig. True Flame will return to it's normal programming after the meltdown.

@Sigtric what if I told you the server already currently does this with vampires and werewolves just for slotting the Expert Hunter? Your argument is invalid.

I know it does this with various skills

It is valid though because it is additional checks, for something that can really be accomplished with some detect pots or flare/radiant magelight, already in the game.

Any new skill or item set carries server calculations. If it's really a problem though, remove the glow on vamps and werewolves for slotting and and only glow on activation; now the skill requires less server load overall even with the new mechanic I'm suggesting.

Kutsuu

You can already hunt stealthers very effectively with sets and abilities present in the game. Stealth has never had more counters than it does now, and it's completely up to you to actually use them effectively.

What you're asking for is an ability like DAOC assassins had called "see hidden" which would allow them to see archers in stealth from max view distance. It was very punishing and unfair to them (this is coming from an avid assassin player) and was changed to be much more fair at a later time - similar to what you can do with increase stealth detection sets/abilities in this game. Not only does your idea sound ridiculously strong, but it's also an easy button. Just slot a single ability on your bar and you have complete dominance over every crouched player.

Again, you can build a very strong stealth hunter with available sets and abilities. You do actually have to put some work into it, it's not just easy mode stick a single ability on your bar and hard counter everyone who ever uses the crouch button like you want, but well that's just how reality works sometimes.

Solariken

Kutsuu wrote: »

You can already hunt stealthers very effectively with sets and abilities present in the game. Stealth has never had more counters than it does now, and it's completely up to you to actually use them effectively.

What you're asking for is an ability like DAOC assassins had called "see hidden" which would allow them to see archers in stealth from max view distance. It was very punishing and unfair to them (this is coming from an avid assassin player) and was changed to be much more fair at a later time - similar to what you can do with increase stealth detection sets/abilities in this game. Not only does your idea sound ridiculously strong, but it's also an easy button. Just slot a single ability on your bar and you have complete dominance over every crouched player.

Again, you can build a very strong stealth hunter with available sets and abilities. You do actually have to put some work into it, it's not just easy mode stick a single ability on your bar and hard counter everyone who ever uses the crouch button like you want, but well that's just how reality works sometimes.

Alright @Kutsuu, that's a reasonable refute. I don't actually think any of the current tools available pose any real threat to stealthers. However, the suggestion is perhaps a little strong.

I know some players give up a lot of utility etc to be a well-built ganker, but it doesn't change the fact that you don't have to give up much at all to be an effective stealther, especially for Nightblades obviously.

I'll keep thinking about this, I do think there must be a better balance that we could find than what we currently have. Seems like everyone wants to be a ninja, and I don't blame them with how strongly the math works for stealth gameplay currently...

Kutsuu

Solariken wrote: »

Kutsuu wrote: »

You can already hunt stealthers very effectively with sets and abilities present in the game. Stealth has never had more counters than it does now, and it's completely up to you to actually use them effectively.

What you're asking for is an ability like DAOC assassins had called "see hidden" which would allow them to see archers in stealth from max view distance. It was very punishing and unfair to them (this is coming from an avid assassin player) and was changed to be much more fair at a later time - similar to what you can do with increase stealth detection sets/abilities in this game. Not only does your idea sound ridiculously strong, but it's also an easy button. Just slot a single ability on your bar and you have complete dominance over every crouched player.

Again, you can build a very strong stealth hunter with available sets and abilities. You do actually have to put some work into it, it's not just easy mode stick a single ability on your bar and hard counter everyone who ever uses the crouch button like you want, but well that's just how reality works sometimes.

Alright @Kutsuu, that's a reasonable refute. I don't actually think any of the current tools available pose any real threat to stealthers. However, the suggestion is perhaps a little strong.

I know some players give up a lot of utility etc to be a well-built ganker, but it doesn't change the fact that you don't have to give up much at all to be an effective stealther, especially for Nightblades obviously.

I'll keep thinking about this, I do think there must be a better balance that we could find than what we currently have. Seems like everyone wants to be a ninja, and I don't blame them with how strongly the math works for stealth gameplay currently...

I spend a lot of time hunting other stealthers on my gankblade. I don't even use a stealthy race (wood elf/khajiit) or a set like Sentry or Way of Air, which are extremely powerful for hunting stealthers. The most effective way to kill them is not to reveal them with magelight, but detect them from long range because they are not INFORMED that they have been detected and you can open with a sneak attack on them. I can't say enough for how fun a Sentry build can be.

Regardless, I just use magelight and my noggin to sniff them out and surprise them. One key is listening for them rebuffing - most stealthers keep all their buffs running while they wait for players to pass by their spot. You can hear them buffing from a pretty long range. That lets you hone in on their location and catch them with a magelight cast. The cool thing is your magelight cast is also an empower, so you can just magelight, wind up your bow heavy attack, and blast them while they freak out that they just got revealed.

Solariken

@Kutsuu I will definitely try a Sentry build, it sounds fun. It doesn't seem like you can build in enough bonus to detection radius to be truly useful in open world, but it could be the the bee's knees during keep defense.

It's not super practical to listen for buffing generally.. unless wearing a headset and being in IC. That could have been a cool extra bonus for Sentry, to enhance stealthed enemy sounds with some location messaging to the wearer.

Kutsuu

Solariken wrote: »

@Kutsuu I will definitely try a Sentry build, it sounds fun. It doesn't seem like you can build in enough bonus to detection radius to be truly useful in open world, but it could be the the bee's knees during keep defense.

It's not super practical to listen for buffing generally.. unless wearing a headset and being in IC. That could have been a cool extra bonus for Sentry, to enhance stealthed enemy sounds with some location messaging to the wearer.

It seems like you're expecting something to see stealthers from clip range or a minimap with blips on it for stealthers - this isn't reasonable at all. You still need to have some logic about you and consider where they might be hiding, watch for ganks then hunt the perp, that kind of thing in order to hunt them. You can't expect ZOS to give you some kind of easy button to just see all stealthers from any range. Well you can, but I might encourage you to hold your breath

I can't agree with you about the practicality of listening for buffing. I wear headphones and keep volume up in Cyrodiil always. I prevent a lot of horse ganks against me just because of that, I hear a magelight cast or a bow heavy attack twang and you better bet my finger instinctively holds down block (which conveniently dismounts you instantly). Sometimes it's a friendly player and I feel a little silly, or I am hitting block while running around in non-pvp areas but whatever. The same use of headphones and sound should be used when hunting stealthers. Again this goes back to you not just having a big fat easy button - if you're listening and paying attention you can hunt them.

FleetwoodSmack

Kutsuu wrote: »

Solariken wrote: »

@Kutsuu I will definitely try a Sentry build, it sounds fun. It doesn't seem like you can build in enough bonus to detection radius to be truly useful in open world, but it could be the the bee's knees during keep defense.

It's not super practical to listen for buffing generally.. unless wearing a headset and being in IC. That could have been a cool extra bonus for Sentry, to enhance stealthed enemy sounds with some location messaging to the wearer.

It seems like you're expecting something to see stealthers from clip range or a minimap with blips on it for stealthers - this isn't reasonable at all. You still need to have some logic about you and consider where they might be hiding, watch for ganks then hunt the perp, that kind of thing in order to hunt them. You can't expect ZOS to give you some kind of easy button to just see all stealthers from any range. Well you can, but I might encourage you to hold your breath

I can't agree with you about the practicality of listening for buffing. I wear headphones and keep volume up in Cyrodiil always. I prevent a lot of horse ganks against me just because of that, I hear a magelight cast or a bow heavy attack twang and you better bet my finger instinctively holds down block (which conveniently dismounts you instantly). Sometimes it's a friendly player and I feel a little silly, or I am hitting block while running around in non-pvp areas but whatever. The same use of headphones and sound should be used when hunting stealthers. Again this goes back to you not just having a big fat easy button - if you're listening and paying attention you can hunt them.

Pretty much all of this. Magelight and Siphoning Attacks seems to be what I mostly hear, but I didn't know about the heavy bow attack. Thanks fer that info!

As for headphones, it's pretty much the only way to PvP in Cyrodiil anymore. I used to play with speakers and it was killing me in the long run. Especially when trying to figure out which direction where sieges are. It was annoying. Swapped to headphones and I was no longer confused in which direction to go.

Kutsuu

IndyWendieGo wrote: »

Kutsuu wrote: »

Solariken wrote: »

@Kutsuu I will definitely try a Sentry build, it sounds fun. It doesn't seem like you can build in enough bonus to detection radius to be truly useful in open world, but it could be the the bee's knees during keep defense.

It's not super practical to listen for buffing generally.. unless wearing a headset and being in IC. That could have been a cool extra bonus for Sentry, to enhance stealthed enemy sounds with some location messaging to the wearer.

It seems like you're expecting something to see stealthers from clip range or a minimap with blips on it for stealthers - this isn't reasonable at all. You still need to have some logic about you and consider where they might be hiding, watch for ganks then hunt the perp, that kind of thing in order to hunt them. You can't expect ZOS to give you some kind of easy button to just see all stealthers from any range. Well you can, but I might encourage you to hold your breath

I can't agree with you about the practicality of listening for buffing. I wear headphones and keep volume up in Cyrodiil always. I prevent a lot of horse ganks against me just because of that, I hear a magelight cast or a bow heavy attack twang and you better bet my finger instinctively holds down block (which conveniently dismounts you instantly). Sometimes it's a friendly player and I feel a little silly, or I am hitting block while running around in non-pvp areas but whatever. The same use of headphones and sound should be used when hunting stealthers. Again this goes back to you not just having a big fat easy button - if you're listening and paying attention you can hunt them.

Pretty much all of this. Magelight and Siphoning Attacks seems to be what I mostly hear, but I didn't know about the heavy bow attack. Thanks fer that info!

As for headphones, it's pretty much the only way to PvP in Cyrodiil anymore. I used to play with speakers and it was killing me in the long run. Especially when trying to figure out which direction where sieges are. It was annoying. Swapped to headphones and I was no longer confused in which direction to go.

Yeah Relentless Focus is probably the one you're hearing, it sounds very similar to Siphoning Attacks. Most of us gankers don't load up Siphon - some do.

susmitds

IMO, stealth is badly implemented in the game. Stealth is a mechanic that awards the player with the highest burst but work much worse for anybody building for something else (combining proc sets being the exception as with procs you can have both burst and sustain). Sure, stacking proc sets and Clever Alchemist will give you insane burst, while still allowing you to speck into sustai kinda like Sribes' build. But on the other hand, medium armor builds without proc sets, especially NBs, is very weak defensively and still don't get the same burst as proc stackers, even after giving up all sustain. As such, stealth somewhat levels the playing field as most NBs built like this will die very fast if they are unable to cloak. Cloak itself too is more of a hit and miss these days.

Waffennacht

I haven't had a gank attempt in... what feels like forever.

The things is, I still do cropsford and ever since 1T, there are far fewer PvE grinders there (or cracked wood cave) and therefore even less gankers.

What I do run into are roaming groups of enemies that wanna take over... typically I don't actually try to claim cropsford till im done questing, that usually gets a few to show up.

Kutsuu

Waffennacht wrote: »

I haven't had a gank attempt in... what feels like forever.

The things is, I still do cropsford and ever since 1T, there are far fewer PvE grinders there (or cracked wood cave) and therefore even less gankers.

What I do run into are roaming groups of enemies that wanna take over... typically I don't actually try to claim cropsford till im done questing, that usually gets a few to show up.

They nerfed the XP in Cyrodiil delves so badly that it's generally a waste of time to grind there compared to other options in PVE land. Kinda sad, I enjoyed grind spot PVP. Moreso protecting grinders or killing protectors of grinders than killing the grinders themselves.