Official Discussion Thread for "ESO Welcomes Crown Crates"

ItsGlaive

Mx13 wrote: »

Xabien wrote: »

Maotti wrote: »

Then it is really settled, Thursday is the day ESO as we know it dies.

Shameful indeed.

Second time that's happened for some of us. First came after they went back on "we'd rather switch the server off than move away from sub model"

They never said that tho.

CBA to dig up the original interview, think it was from 2014 iirc, but Paul Sage said he'd switch the servers off before making the switch, made a big song and dance about their stance and their ethics.

Here's another interview which was easier to find, he makes similar overtures in this: http://gamingbolt.com/the-elder-scrolls-online-interview-business-model-is-what-the-business-model-is

Preyfar

Dominoid wrote: »

There's a difference between a "mod" tasked with enforcing forums rules and a developer/community manager tasked with communicating official company positions. Although I am sure that the developers are following this thread. Hi guys, some details in here please or are "we" expected to spend cash to learn the details?

Yeah, I know there's a difference, but ZOS also knows this is such a huge hot button topic. The issues they said they'd change/discuss later... haven't been touched on, so those concerns players had are just going to fester.

Alucardo

LOL Please change title to "ESO Welcomes Crown Crates, but players do not". Let's try and be honest here.

Rohamad_Ali

Alucardo wrote: »

LOL Please change title to "ESO Welcomes Crown Crates, but players do not". Let's try and be honest here.

Zos is trolling I think .

lonewolf26

Certainly lacking "all of the details" that were promised. Lacking odds, crown gem conversion rate, or indications on whether the themed mounts and momentous would have a fair straight out purchase price. PTS testing is the only data we've got to go on, and based on that experience I should only buy these if I love feeding dollar bills into a paper shredder. I would not "welcome" this.

Recremen

So which part of this fiasco lets you sidestep gaming commission laws? Is it the fact that you are technically buying tokens in order to gamble? Is it that you are ostensibly always "winning", despite no strong evidence that any of the prizes are actually considered to have value except the cosmetics? We're all just dying to know.

Ilsabet

Well one relatively positive detail, at least the way I'm interpreting it, is "You will also have the option to convert several items obtained from Crown Crates to Crown Gems any time you want." To me that sounds like you don't have to commit to either "keep or junk" as soon as you open the crate and get the items, so you can keep your consumables in reserve until you have enough to get gems for the thing you want and then junk them for gems all at once.

I mean these things are still terrible and nobody should buy them, but at least you have some flexibility in how you waste your money.

Unless that's not what that sentence means and I'm giving ZOS too much credit.

I'd also like to know how reliable the "valued more than the price of a single crate" statement is now, considering that people determined that it wasn't always true on PTS.

Jim_Pipp

lordrichter wrote: »

So, only utility items can be converted to Crowns. If you get a costume, etc, that you do not want, ot cannot use, you keep it. Also, food and drink do npt appear to be on the list. Are those utility items?

No odds posted, but not expected, either.

Recremen wrote: »

So which part of this fiasco lets you sidestep gaming commission laws? Is it the fact that you are technically buying tokens in order to gamble? Is it that you are ostensibly always "winning", despite no strong evidence that any of the prizes are actually considered to have value except the cosmetics? We're all just dying to know.

I think you are right, everyone always wins in crown crates, but they rarely win what they want. Therefore a better name for them would be Raffle Nacelles (other names for them may be appropriate but unacceptable on the forums).

ItsGlaive

Recremen wrote: »

So which part of this fiasco lets you sidestep gaming commission laws? Is it the fact that you are technically buying tokens in order to gamble? Is it that you are ostensibly always "winning", despite no strong evidence that any of the prizes are actually considered to have value except the cosmetics? We're all just dying to know.

Tokens. In-game currencies avoid a lot of legislation around gambling and consumer law. For now at least.

Elsonso

Dominoid wrote: »

Xabien wrote: »

Maotti wrote: »

Then it is really settled, Thursday is the day ESO as we know it dies.

Shameful indeed.

Second time that's happened for some of us. First came after they went back on "we'd rather switch the server off than move away from sub model"

Second? We "died" when Wildstar launched, then Archeage, then WOW:WOD, then console delay, then "Cash Shop", then B2P, then Blade and Soul, then Black Desert, then One Tamriel, then Crown Crates, then . . .

Oddly enough, I suspect that where Wildstar failed, and where Archage failed, and where BDO failed, ZOS will be successful. Crown Crates are the next step in the long path since B2P, although not the first step since then. The events that will ultimately lead to death started back then, in March 2015, but it will still be a while before it starts to really be a problem. Enjoy it while you can.

Xabien wrote: »

Paul Sage said he'd switch the servers off before making the switch, made a big song and dance about their stance and their ethics.

Paul Sage never said this. At no time since January 2015 have I ever seen concrete proof that he said this. Anywhere. They said a lot of things about subscription being the right model for the game, and how it allowed them to deliver the game they want to deliver, but no where did they ever say they would shut down the servers.

Even in your reference, Sage leaves the door open to a change in the business model. In fact, some believe that this indicates that he already knew they were changing when he said that.

Integral1900

I know the corporate types at ZOS believe in the whole idea of if it all goes to hell keep your mouth shut but, as someone who has been on that side of the equation, I can tell you with absolute cast iron certainty that it simply does not work long term. The problems and the resentment they cause go septic and just keep getting bigger, slowly eroding the customer base out from under you. Your going to have to give more details or the ranting will never stop and until that happens it will continue to poison the forums.

Like many people in th uk I work for just above minimum wage, I'm more lucky than most in that I adore my job, but at their current price and with absolutely no information on the odds I simply cannot justify pouring my limited budget down the proverbial black hole.

Even Las Vegas provides a means of determining the odds of success because the games they use are for the most part standardised. The elements at play are understood independently and so with a little research you can be fairly sure of what your getting, here there is nothing at all, we are effectively shoving our cash into a black bag with no idea if anything good will come out the other end. One example is poker, why after all do you think the top tables are so regularly stacked with the same people? Once you understand the system and it's nature the element of luck needed is reduced, here we are effectively playing blind, okay for writ rewards but not when it comes to cold hard cash!

ItsGlaive

lordrichter wrote: »

Dominoid wrote: »

Xabien wrote: »

Maotti wrote: »

Then it is really settled, Thursday is the day ESO as we know it dies.

Shameful indeed.

Second time that's happened for some of us. First came after they went back on "we'd rather switch the server off than move away from sub model"

Second? We "died" when Wildstar launched, then Archeage, then WOW:WOD, then console delay, then "Cash Shop", then B2P, then Blade and Soul, then Black Desert, then One Tamriel, then Crown Crates, then . . .

Oddly enough, I suspect that where Wildstar failed, and where Archage failed, and where BDO failed, ZOS will be successful. Crown Crates are the next step in the long path since B2P, although not the first step since then. The events that will ultimately lead to death started back then, in March 2015, but it will still be a while before it starts to really be a problem. Enjoy it while you can.

Xabien wrote: »

Paul Sage said he'd switch the servers off before making the switch, made a big song and dance about their stance and their ethics.

Paul Sage never said this. At no time since January 2015 have I ever seen concrete proof that he said this. Anywhere. They said a lot of things about subscription being the right model for the game, and how it allowed them to deliver the game they want to deliver, but no where did they ever say they would shut down the servers.

Even in your reference, Sage leaves the door open to a change in the business model. In fact, some believe that this indicates that he already knew they were changing when he said that.

We'll have to agree to disagree then as I'm not trawling the net to dig it out. They do a fine enough job of rewriting their own narrative without players giving them a hand too.

Incidentally, loving the new lines in your PAWS siggie

LadyNalcarya

How about no.
I would have bought those mounts even for 5k crowns each, but Im not buying even one of those scam crates.
P.s. there's absolutely 0 info about drop rate... Im expecting a lot of "Ive spend 20k crowns, where's my mount???" threads very soon.

ZOS_GinaBruno

MyNameIsElias wrote: »

It doesn't even tell us all of the items for sale in the season's crown crate, not even to mention the current gem prices.

There are a pretty fair amount of items included in a Crown Crate. You'll be able to see almost all the items you can obtain from a Crate in the Crown Store UI (save for a couple consumables). Similar to the Crown Store Showcase, prices aren't published via the website, but you'll be able to see all Gem amounts come Thursday through the same UI mentioned above.

Paulington wrote: »

So how have you addressed the backlash from PTS testing?

As mentioned in the article, we will be allowing you to manually convert several items to Crown Gems any time you want. In addition, we’ve also made the following changes since you saw Crown Crates on the PTS:

• We increased the frequency that you’ll receive higher tier rewards
• We improved the duration of the potions received from Crown Crates, but not beyond what can be crafted
• We recently added Mythic Aetherial Ambrosia to the game so you can craft a 150% XP consumable similar to those rewarded through Crown Crates

Abeille wrote: »

PLEASE just tell us if there is anything that IS NOT THEMED that is going to be exclusive.

There will be some new, non-themed items exclusive to Crown Crates, yes. These are largely going to be re-skins of existing items, though. You will be able to purchase these with Crown Gems, and they will be priced lower than the themed Apex-level mounts.

Rouven wrote: »

Can I convert any crown store consumables? Like the ones that come in bundles?

No, only consumables obtained through Crown Crates can be converted to Crown Gems.

Ilsabet wrote: »

Well one relatively positive detail, at least the way I'm interpreting it, is "You will also have the option to convert several items obtained from Crown Crates to Crown Gems any time you want." To me that sounds like you don't have to commit to either "keep or junk" as soon as you open the crate and get the items, so you can keep your consumables in reserve until you have enough to get gems for the thing you want and then junk them for gems all at once.

That's correct. Let's say you decide to keep a potion obtained from a Crown Crate. If you later decide you'd rather convert it to a Crown Gem, you can do it any time, even while it's in your inventory.

JimT722

ZOS I really don't know what to say. You release an article with zero new information from what has been on the pts. I see no effort to appease the large portion of your community. I like buying things. I don't play eso to gamble my hard earned money. If I wanted to do that I would go to a casino. Since most of the items I have been desiring since July are going to be exclusive to crates, I'm going to move on.

@ZOS_GinaBruno thanks for a great game for the past 2.5 years, sorry more couldn't be done to make these fair.

Preyfar

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Paulington wrote: »

So how have you addressed the backlash from PTS testing?

As mentioned in the article, we will be allowing you to manually convert several items to Crown Gems any time you want. In addition, we’ve also made the following changes since you saw Crown Crates on the PTS:

• We increased the frequency that you’ll receive higher tier rewards
• We improved the duration of the potions received from Crown Crates, but not beyond what can be crafted
• We recently added Mythic Aetherial Ambrosia to the game so you can craft a 150% XP consumable similar to those rewarded through Crown Crates

Thank you. That's the information a lot of us were really looking for. Would it be possible to update the article online to add that information (and maybe help relieve some player anxiety)?

Integral1900

Well that answered litteraly nothing of any use. Does increased drop rates mean one percent, nought point one? Food manufactures pull the same rubbish on low fat food. It's not right there and it's not right here.

I don't gamble without knowing the odds, ZOS is making the situation worse by sitting on all the details of the probabilities, people don't know what they are getting and so the natural assumption is that they are being ripped off. Until ZOS gives more detailed information the panic will only get worse.

It's strange to be one of the calm ones despite the fact I have social anxiety myself guess I'm so used to being proven right when I assume the worst about companies that I've just got used to it......

Recremen

Friendly reminder that adding in a gamble-for-content feature is exactly equivalent with ZOS saying "we are perfectly content with people spending money and not getting anything out of it". Every detail about the gambling boxes is a business psych trick to squeeze cash out of you without any promise that you're even getting the very cosmetic items that are supposed to keep this damn game afloat. The "gems" are just the latest in a list of refinements to make gambling more appealing. It is nothing more than fair banking, and is designed not even to let you actually buy what you wanted in the first place, but to increase the amount you are willing to spend before giving up.


We must fully reject gambling as a means of content delivery.

We must fully reject a gambling addition to a perfectly functional cash shop.

We must fully reject exclusive, high quality content being used to incentivize gambling.



We must embrace direct purchase of content as the only means of delivery.

We must embrace direct purchase as the only acceptable feature in a cash shop.

We must embrace honest, clear pricing for goods and services.

Integral1900

Recremen wrote: »

Friendly reminder that adding in a gamble-for-content feature is exactly equivalent with ZOS saying "we are perfectly content with people spending money and not getting anything out of it". Every detail about the gambling boxes is a business psych trick to squeeze cash out of you without any promise that you're even getting the very cosmetic items that are supposed to keep this damn game afloat. The "gems" are just the latest in a list of refinements to make gambling more appealing. It is nothing more than fair banking, and is designed not even to let you actually buy what you wanted in the first place, but to increase the amount you are willing to spend before giving up.


We must fully reject gambling as a means of content delivery.

We must fully reject a gambling addition to a perfectly functional cash shop.

We must fully reject exclusive, high quality content being used to incentivize gambling.



We must embrace direct purchase of content as the only means of delivery.

We must embrace direct purchase as the only acceptable feature in a cash shop.

We must embrace honest, clear pricing for goods and services.

This

CaptainVenom

Integral1900 wrote: »

I don't gamble without knowing the odds, ZOS is making the situation worse by sitting on all the details of the probabilities, people don't know what they are getting and so the natural assumption is that they are being ripped off. Until ZOS gives more detailed information the panic will only get worse.

This. C'mon ZOS, tell us what items can come from the crates and their chances. It's our money we are spending. So please be clear about what we are willing to purchase, at least.

Recremen

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

There will be some new, non-themed items exclusive to Crown Crates, yes. These are largely going to be re-skins of existing items, though. You will be able to purchase these with Crown Gems, and they will be priced lower than the themed Apex-level mounts.

This is even worse news than the storm atronach mounts being exclusive.

joshdrink

@ZOS_GinaBruno It would be helpful to hear an explanation as to why these items can't be made available through traditional crown store prices alongside the crates. If your team generates something of value to us as players - we're obviously more than happy to spend money on making that purchase. For those of us who want that one skin for that one mount, where is the harm in allowing us to purchase it outright?

You're introducing a mechanic into a video game that is instilling nothing but panic and anxiety for a majority of vocal players - why would you bother doing this when you know you can already faithfully earn our money by releasing awesome content through regular crown store means?

Allow the people who enjoy gambling to gamble, and let the rest of us simply buy the great content when it piques our interest.

Tandor

Xabien wrote: »

Mx13 wrote: »

Xabien wrote: »

Maotti wrote: »

Then it is really settled, Thursday is the day ESO as we know it dies.

Shameful indeed.

Second time that's happened for some of us. First came after they went back on "we'd rather switch the server off than move away from sub model"

They never said that tho.

CBA to dig up the original interview, think it was from 2014 iirc, but Paul Sage said he'd switch the servers off before making the switch, made a big song and dance about their stance and their ethics.

Here's another interview which was easier to find, he makes similar overtures in this: http://gamingbolt.com/the-elder-scrolls-online-interview-business-model-is-what-the-business-model-is

All he said in that link is that they had no plans he was aware of to change the model. I can well imagine that to have been true at the time, but if you have evidence that it wasn't the case then let's see it. However, there's nothing in that interview that could remotely be described as making "similar overtures" to an unsupported allegation that elsewhere he said he'd rather close the servers down than change the business model.

People are quick to accuse ZOS of telling all sorts of lies and breaking all sorts of promises, but it's funny how when they get asked for evidence they never have any. Then they invariably complain that ZOS no longer communicate with the people who have distorted everything they have said in the past!

I don't support everything ZOS do, and the game is certainly not without its faults, but when claims like yours are bandied about there really is a need to put up or shut up. If you can unearth the quote about closing down the servers then I'll freely apologise for getting it wrong, if you can't unearth that quote will you freely apologise for getting it wrong?

MBite

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Abeille wrote: »

PLEASE just tell us if there is anything that IS NOT THEMED that is going to be exclusive.

There will be some new, non-themed items exclusive to Crown Crates, yes. These are largely going to be re-skins of existing items, though. You will be able to purchase these with Crown Gems, and they will be priced lower than the themed Apex-level mounts.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!

Damn, here goes new stuff guys....

Ilsabet

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

There will be some new, non-themed items exclusive to Crown Crates, yes. These are largely going to be re-skins of existing items, though. You will be able to purchase these with Crown Gems, and they will be priced lower than the themed Apex-level mounts.

My purple mohawk boar...

Elsonso

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Ilsabet wrote: »

Well one relatively positive detail, at least the way I'm interpreting it, is "You will also have the option to convert several items obtained from Crown Crates to Crown Gems any time you want." To me that sounds like you don't have to commit to either "keep or junk" as soon as you open the crate and get the items, so you can keep your consumables in reserve until you have enough to get gems for the thing you want and then junk them for gems all at once.

That's correct. Let's say you decide to keep a potion obtained from a Crown Crate. If you later decide you'd rather convert it to a Crown Gem, you can do it any time, even while it's in your inventory.

Thank you for the information about the exchange rate... 1 consumable = 1 gem.

Abeille

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Abeille wrote: »

PLEASE just tell us if there is anything that IS NOT THEMED that is going to be exclusive.

There will be some new, non-themed items exclusive to Crown Crates, yes. These are largely going to be re-skins of existing items, though. You will be able to purchase these with Crown Gems, and they will be priced lower than the themed Apex-level mounts.

This is the most disheartening thing I read in a while.

I BEG you all to reconsider. Please. Really, on my knees.

Elsonso

Recremen wrote: »

The Six Crown Store Commandments:

1. We must fully reject gambling as a means of content delivery.
2. We must fully reject a gambling addition to a perfectly functional cash shop.
3. We must fully reject exclusive, high quality content being used to incentivize gambling.
4. We must embrace direct purchase of content as the only means of delivery.
5. We must embrace direct purchase as the only acceptable feature in a cash shop.
6. We must embrace honest, clear pricing for goods and services.

Aggelos

@ZOS_GinaBruno Any chance to be able to earn a Crown Crate in the game via a once a week quest or login reward (aka log in 7 days for 30 minutes each to unlock a Crate)? Having the ability to get one crate a week for a chance at items would go a long way I think to making this addition more acceptable in the eyes of many. You get once shot a week and if you want more you buy more.

Rune_Relic

Preyfar wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

Dominoid wrote: »

This "article" is woefully light on details.

Can't disagree with that!

I think I'm disappointed that ZOS' mods are clearly following this thread and taking action on posts than simply providing answers. Any answers. I've come to realize that the "Official Discussion Threads" are just for players to discuss it, not for staff to interact.

And with all the concern players have over the crates this would be the one time to step in and answer those questions.

They dont need to respond...
..you/me are providing all the feedback they need for datamining purposes, which may or may not have some kind of influence on the future direction of the game, along with some instant short term profit margins analysis.
You/me are just a bank account to access...nothing more.
Remember that next time you're smiled at behind the gritted teeth of a false smile....amidst the smoke and mirrors.

Time for one last hurrah I think