After playing Stam for the first time...

FloppyTouch

...it's not as easy as I thought it would be.

I main a mdk in pvp and then decided to play the meta Stam sorc. Went out and farmed viper black rose and tremor sets max out fighter guild got the skill points and golded out my gear and jumped into pvp.

I will admit I got some fast kills but you run out of Stam fast even with dark deal. After a vigor a dodge roll or two and a few skills ur done. I feel on my mdk I'm not out of magic as fast and able to hold my ground better. I know I'm new only played a few days but I don't feel Stam is as op as I use too.

Has anyone else had this issue after playing only magic for years then jump to Stam and have a hard time with it? Or am I just bad and need to get good? I see these Stam build that never seem to run out of Stam dodge roll a lot and vigor a lot and still be able to take out so many ppl but when I try after my buffs and some skills getting away or dodging every attack is almost impossible. Some insight would be helpful.

Alucardo

You shouldn't really be dodge rolling in heavy armor. It's much cheaper to get away with in medium. Use your mitigation and bonus healing to your advantage instead of rolling around. In black rose/heavy, the more you get hit, the more you regain resources anyway, so you don't want to be constantly dodging.
When you're in a tough spot, use streak to break LoS, dark deal up and regain resources, then jump back in the fight. Don't be too hard on yourself considering you've just switched to stamina - it gets easier over time.
Oddly enough I was the complete opposite. I went from stam sorc to mdk and found my resources were endless. Still not great at the class or anything, but managing magicka seems a lot easier than stamina.

Glamdring

The serpent mundus, tripots, max health/stam regen food. Slot Werewolf ultimate. 100 points into stamregen cptree. Use jewelry with stamregen enchant. It all depends on your playstyle how much regen u need. And u need to play alot more to get a feel for your build and how to tweak it.

FloppyTouch

Alucardo wrote: »

You shouldn't really be dodge rolling in heavy armor. It's much cheaper to get away with in medium. Use your mitigation and bonus healing to your advantage instead of rolling around. In black rose/heavy, the more you get hit, the more you regain resources anyway, so you don't want to be constantly dodging.
When you're in a tough spot, use streak to break LoS, dark deal up and regain resources, then jump back in the fight. Don't be too hard on yourself considering you've just switched to stamina - it gets easier over time.
Oddly enough I was the complete opposite. I went from stam sorc to mdk and found my resources were endless. Still not great at the class or anything, but managing magicka seems a lot easier than stamina.

This helps a lot ty TBH forgot about heavy armor and roll dodge XD

Rune_Relic

I often play a hybrid and fight stamina burns through resources far faster than magicka.
Its almost like magicka regen tick is every 1s and stamina tick is every 2s.
If you dont play both side by side....I guess you would never notice this.

Its obviously down to passives and stuff.
In the end I moved all magicka into stamina as the magicak regen was so fast I didnt need a big pool to burn through.
[TTK & damage was not my priority for this build]

Anyway....its definitely a curiosity regarding magicka vs stamina resource use.
Just cant be bothered to pull everything apart to figure out whats going in.

Most of the time I can spam magicka....but I have to interleave stamina with heavy attacks.

Jjitsuboy98

I thought about respecing my Magicka DK into stamina soon. I feel like he is powerful 1v1 but I hear Stamina DK is a beast. I have 2 tremor 5 Black Rose 5 Viper setup. What do you think of that?

AzuraKin

off topic but, i dont find mdk to have endless magicka, so much so i turned it into a tank even though its a dark elf.

Kutsuu

You'll learn to manage your Stamina over time, but yes it's very true that perception doesn't match reality until you actually try it yourself. All you can really do without experience is assume. Things tend to be different on paper.

Some things I've found very useful to help with stamina management is to use S'rendarr to track your dodge roll fatigue in a VERY OBVIOUS spot on your screen - I keep it in a separate window that's right on top of my character so I can't miss it. Don't dodge while you're fatigued unless you are in very hot water. Also keep in mind that you won't regen stam while blocking, but blocking should be your main way to avoid burst and CC instead of dodge roll because it's much cheaper. Finally, creating breaks in combat by LOSing will give you time to Dark Deal.

Chrlynsch

Depending on your cp, the unchained passive is game changing, time your burst with this proc and your stamina will thank you. Be sure to work in heavy attacks as well especially if you are wearing heavy armor.

Lexxypwns

Try heavy attack weaving. This way your cancer burst will be a 1 shot and restore stam.

NativeJoe

You can't just jump from magicka to stamina like that lolz

If you wanna get into Stamina you have to start yourself out with a High regen, sustain build...
Then work yourself down from there to High end super damage builds.

Coming from magicka to stamina like that is going to be a major shock. their are subtle nuances you need to grasp before you can be an effective... Stamina burns from both ends...so ALOT of it is managing that burn as per your class and burst combo./also your cp level

Strider_Roshin

Overall magicka is a lot easier to play. The only stam class that I've played that I would say is pretty close is a stam sorc. If you think they're tough to be successful with try playing with the other stamina classes.

GreenSoup2HoT

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Try heavy attack weaving. This way your cancer burst will be a 1 shot and restore stam.

Shh .. thats a secret one must figure out for themself.

Xvorg

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Overall magicka is a lot easier to play. The only stam class that I've played that I would say is pretty close is a stam sorc. If you think they're tough to be successful with try playing with the other stamina classes.

why?

I found magicka much more complicated than stamina since you have a quite small stamina pool for dodge rolling, blocking and springting. You can get a lot of survaibility with bubbles and heals, but any shield or heal is much more expensive than dodge rolling, vigor and blocking.


Nevertheless, this is just an opinion

Strider_Roshin

Xvorg wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Overall magicka is a lot easier to play. The only stam class that I've played that I would say is pretty close is a stam sorc. If you think they're tough to be successful with try playing with the other stamina classes.

why?

I found magicka much more complicated than stamina since you have a quite small stamina pool for dodge rolling, blocking and springting. You can get a lot of survaibility with bubbles and heals, but any shield or heal is much more expensive than dodge rolling, vigor and blocking.


Nevertheless, this is just an opinion

That's all about proper stat allocation. On my main (which is stamina) I have around 1k magicka regen, and 12k magicka pool because I access my magicka abilities constantly throughout a fight. Most magicka players run out of stamina because they're not properly accounting for it.

On my magicka characters I usually have around 70 points into Tumbling, and I also like to have at least 10k stamina. Putting nothing into stamina, and focusing only on what benefits your magicka resource management is the reason why magicka builds get rek'd easily by CCs. Figure out the minimum about of stamina you'll need in a fight, and get it.

Also the cost for casting a damage shield is comparable to dodge rolling, the only difference is that magicka is allowed to spam their defensive ability without being punished by an increased cost; stamina on the other-hand does. Block casting is also less punishing as a magicka user.

Moglijuana

I've mained my Mag DK since console launch...and I have found that any stam class in BR is stupid easy resource management compared to my Mag DK...lol. I already play with low Mag Recovery (1533) on my MagDK and have to be very careful about what I cast and when...my stam classes? I play with like 1000 stam regen, maybe less and I can make so make so many mistakes in a fight and STILL WIN it's not even funny...if I make more than one mistake on mDK it usually results in death.

My opinion though.

**The link in my signature has clips of MagDK (in Light and sometimes Heavy Kags) vs. Stam DK in BR. The fights with Stam DK is an extremely clear representation of how easy resource management is with stam classes. I make little to no mistakes on my MDK in the clips (and am usually starving for resources) while the stam DK clips I play like a thumb-less monkey and win.

Kutsuu

Moglijuana wrote: »

I've mained my Mag DK since console launch...and I have found that any stam class in BR is stupid easy resource management compared to my Mag DK...lol. I already play with low Mag Recovery (1533) on my MagDK and have to be very careful about what I cast and when...my stam classes? I play with like 1000 stam regen, maybe less and I can make so make so many mistakes in a fight and STILL WIN it's not even funny...if I make more than one mistake on mDK it usually results in death.

My opinion though.

Sounds like your mDK is a complete glass cannon setup. Most mDKs that I run into are very tough nuts to crack and have a lot of room to make mistakes and recover from them.

A stam class with less than 1k stam regen does take careful resource management. Especially when you are doing more than just bursting someone in a duel and need to sprint, block, and dodge while healing/dpsing over sustained fights.

Lokey0024

Glamdring wrote: »

The serpent mundus, tripots, max health/stam regen food. Slot Werewolf ultimate. 100 points into stamregen cptree. Use jewelry with stamregen enchant. It all depends on your playstyle how much regen u need. And u need to play alot more to get a feel for your build and how to tweak it.

Your regen comes from dark deal, heavy attacks, or BR procs. Dont use regen enchants, if anything use cost reduce on 1 max. Max stat tri food gives extra dark deals. Sorc should use thief or warrior mundus. All imo.

Moglijuana

Kutsuu wrote: »

Moglijuana wrote: »

I've mained my Mag DK since console launch...and I have found that any stam class in BR is stupid easy resource management compared to my Mag DK...lol. I already play with low Mag Recovery (1533) on my MagDK and have to be very careful about what I cast and when...my stam classes? I play with like 1000 stam regen, maybe less and I can make so make so many mistakes in a fight and STILL WIN it's not even funny...if I make more than one mistake on mDK it usually results in death.

My opinion though.

Sounds like your mDK is a complete glass cannon setup. Most mDKs that I run into are very tough nuts to crack and have a lot of room to make mistakes and recover from them.

A stam class with less than 1k stam regen does take careful resource management. Especially when you are doing more than just bursting someone in a duel and need to sprint, block, and dodge while healing/dpsing over sustained fights.

Heavy Kags/3 willpower/2 Bloodspawn/2 seducer actually. Not glass cannon at all. I've recently went light Sun/Spellweave/skoria and the resource management is a BIT harder, mostly on my stam pool, but still manageable for a bit. Still harder than any of my chars wearing BR...

GreenSoup2HoT

Kutsuu wrote: »

Moglijuana wrote: »

I've mained my Mag DK since console launch...and I have found that any stam class in BR is stupid easy resource management compared to my Mag DK...lol. I already play with low Mag Recovery (1533) on my MagDK and have to be very careful about what I cast and when...my stam classes? I play with like 1000 stam regen, maybe less and I can make so make so many mistakes in a fight and STILL WIN it's not even funny...if I make more than one mistake on mDK it usually results in death.

My opinion though.

Sounds like your mDK is a complete glass cannon setup. Most mDKs that I run into are very tough nuts to crack and have a lot of room to make mistakes and recover from them.

A stam class with less than 1k stam regen does take careful resource management. Especially when you are doing more than just bursting someone in a duel and need to sprint, block, and dodge while healing/dpsing over sustained fights.

Its harder to run more regen. Everything disables your stamina so in essence your wasting recovery.

As soon as magicka recovery, max stamina drinks come out ill be so happy.

Kutsuu

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

Kutsuu wrote: »

Moglijuana wrote: »

I've mained my Mag DK since console launch...and I have found that any stam class in BR is stupid easy resource management compared to my Mag DK...lol. I already play with low Mag Recovery (1533) on my MagDK and have to be very careful about what I cast and when...my stam classes? I play with like 1000 stam regen, maybe less and I can make so make so many mistakes in a fight and STILL WIN it's not even funny...if I make more than one mistake on mDK it usually results in death.

My opinion though.

Sounds like your mDK is a complete glass cannon setup. Most mDKs that I run into are very tough nuts to crack and have a lot of room to make mistakes and recover from them.

A stam class with less than 1k stam regen does take careful resource management. Especially when you are doing more than just bursting someone in a duel and need to sprint, block, and dodge while healing/dpsing over sustained fights.

Its harder to run more regen. Everything disables your stamina so in essence your wasting recovery.

As soon as magicka recovery, max stamina drinks come out ill be so happy.

What other than blocking and sneaking disables stam regen?

ostrapz

@Kutsuu dodgeroll on console

GreenSoup2HoT

Kutsuu wrote: »

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

Kutsuu wrote: »

Moglijuana wrote: »

I've mained my Mag DK since console launch...and I have found that any stam class in BR is stupid easy resource management compared to my Mag DK...lol. I already play with low Mag Recovery (1533) on my MagDK and have to be very careful about what I cast and when...my stam classes? I play with like 1000 stam regen, maybe less and I can make so make so many mistakes in a fight and STILL WIN it's not even funny...if I make more than one mistake on mDK it usually results in death.

My opinion though.

Sounds like your mDK is a complete glass cannon setup. Most mDKs that I run into are very tough nuts to crack and have a lot of room to make mistakes and recover from them.

A stam class with less than 1k stam regen does take careful resource management. Especially when you are doing more than just bursting someone in a duel and need to sprint, block, and dodge while healing/dpsing over sustained fights.

Its harder to run more regen. Everything disables your stamina so in essence your wasting recovery.

As soon as magicka recovery, max stamina drinks come out ill be so happy.

What other than blocking and sneaking disables stam regen?

Sprinting cuts regen.

Dodgeroll and Bash on console do as well but only if your not quick enough. Its very tedious to do. You'll get mad finger cramps if you try to do these things quick enough for your regen to keep flowing consistently. If you try to double roll dodge you have to click R2+X and let go then repeat really fast to keep regen flowing. Holding R2 and rolling over and over can be killer on your regen since it counts as blocking. Blocking stops regen soo....

It's also very hard to bash without blocking and stopping your regen. This is why console specifically needs a 1 second stamina regen cool-down before blocking gets cut. PC has dedicated dodge-roll and bash buttons so this isn't an issue.

Stamina players on console can't really play like stamina players on pc because of this. You can if you try hard enough but i dont want arthritis.

This is also why i relie on cloak and run 1500 magicka regen. To many actions stop my stamina so theres honestly no point doing them (sprint,roll dodge,block,bash). I only do them when i cant cloak and i have to.

Kutsuu

Yeah that sounds pretty rough. Just another reason not to play on console lol. I guess the max health + mana regen drink could work well for you if that's your thing. Works well with Bone Pirate set.

GreenSoup2HoT

Kutsuu wrote: »

Yeah that sounds pretty rough. Just another reason not to play on console lol. I guess the max health + mana regen drink could work well for you if that's your thing. Works well with Bone Pirate set.

Magicka Recovery and Maximum Stamina i've been told is suppose to be coming with the New Life Festival but i've seen some data mined images of the recipes and it wasn't there which was lame. Magicka is getting Stamina recovery and Maximum Magicka..... totally unfair

You gotta remember though, there is no macros or CE on console compared to PC and everyone's playing with the same rig. It makes console a much more even playing field.

The block regen problem is why so many people are using alternative resource sustain with sets (like black rose) or ability's (like dark-deal) on console. Its an issue that i hope one day gets fixed.

Glamdring

Block regen problem?!?!?

GreenSoup2HoT

Glamdring wrote: »

Block regen problem?!?!?

Its only a problem for console since are roll dodge and bash actions are tied to the same button, which means no stam regen when performing these actions to slow.

Xvorg

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Overall magicka is a lot easier to play. The only stam class that I've played that I would say is pretty close is a stam sorc. If you think they're tough to be successful with try playing with the other stamina classes.

why?

I found magicka much more complicated than stamina since you have a quite small stamina pool for dodge rolling, blocking and springting. You can get a lot of survaibility with bubbles and heals, but any shield or heal is much more expensive than dodge rolling, vigor and blocking.


Nevertheless, this is just an opinion

That's all about proper stat allocation. On my main (which is stamina) I have around 1k magicka regen, and 12k magicka pool because I access my magicka abilities constantly throughout a fight. Most magicka players run out of stamina because they're not properly accounting for it.

On my magicka characters I usually have around 70 points into Tumbling, and I also like to have at least 10k stamina. Putting nothing into stamina, and focusing only on what benefits your magicka resource management is the reason why magicka builds get rek'd easily by CCs. Figure out the minimum about of stamina you'll need in a fight, and get it.

Also the cost for casting a damage shield is comparable to dodge rolling, the only difference is that magicka is allowed to spam their defensive ability without being punished by an increased cost; stamina on the other-hand does. Block casting is also less punishing as a magicka user.

You can't compare 13K stamina in a magicka build (which is nothing) with 13k magicka in a stam build (which allow you to use consistently one utility skill based on magicka)

Regarding the increased cost of dodge rolling VS shield, after dodge rolling you get 100% evasion for a couple secs (2 if I remeber well), which allows you to do the transition between defensive and offensive. You forget about your health bar. While the shield can be bring down during those 6 secs it lasts so you must be checking your health bar constantly. Any basic stam combo can put yur shield down in 2 secs, while the only way to negate dodge roll effect is through channeled skills (currently 2 in the game, being one an ultimate), AoE or mages fury.

Jjitsuboy98

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

Kutsuu wrote: »

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

Kutsuu wrote: »

Moglijuana wrote: »

I've mained my Mag DK since console launch...and I have found that any stam class in BR is stupid easy resource management compared to my Mag DK...lol. I already play with low Mag Recovery (1533) on my MagDK and have to be very careful about what I cast and when...my stam classes? I play with like 1000 stam regen, maybe less and I can make so make so many mistakes in a fight and STILL WIN it's not even funny...if I make more than one mistake on mDK it usually results in death.

My opinion though.

Sounds like your mDK is a complete glass cannon setup. Most mDKs that I run into are very tough nuts to crack and have a lot of room to make mistakes and recover from them.

A stam class with less than 1k stam regen does take careful resource management. Especially when you are doing more than just bursting someone in a duel and need to sprint, block, and dodge while healing/dpsing over sustained fights.

Its harder to run more regen. Everything disables your stamina so in essence your wasting recovery.

As soon as magicka recovery, max stamina drinks come out ill be so happy.

What other than blocking and sneaking disables stam regen?

Sprinting cuts regen.

Dodgeroll and Bash on console do as well but only if your not quick enough. Its very tedious to do. You'll get mad finger cramps if you try to do these things quick enough for your regen to keep flowing consistently. If you try to double roll dodge you have to click R2+X and let go then repeat really fast to keep regen flowing. Holding R2 and rolling over and over can be killer on your regen since it counts as blocking. Blocking stops regen soo....

It's also very hard to bash without blocking and stopping your regen. This is why console specifically needs a 1 second stamina regen cool-down before blocking gets cut. PC has dedicated dodge-roll and bash buttons so this isn't an issue.

Stamina players on console can't really play like stamina players on pc because of this. You can if you try hard enough but i dont want arthritis.

This is also why i relie on cloak and run 1500 magicka regen. To many actions stop my stamina so theres honestly no point doing them (sprint,roll dodge,block,bash). I only do them when i cant cloak and i have to.

I have been trying to light attack ransacked bash as it's a great combo for 1H/S users but on console it's a pain compared to How easy it is on pc.

Xvorg

Jjitsuboy98 wrote: »

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

Kutsuu wrote: »

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

Kutsuu wrote: »

Moglijuana wrote: »

I've mained my Mag DK since console launch...and I have found that any stam class in BR is stupid easy resource management compared to my Mag DK...lol. I already play with low Mag Recovery (1533) on my MagDK and have to be very careful about what I cast and when...my stam classes? I play with like 1000 stam regen, maybe less and I can make so make so many mistakes in a fight and STILL WIN it's not even funny...if I make more than one mistake on mDK it usually results in death.

My opinion though.

Sounds like your mDK is a complete glass cannon setup. Most mDKs that I run into are very tough nuts to crack and have a lot of room to make mistakes and recover from them.

A stam class with less than 1k stam regen does take careful resource management. Especially when you are doing more than just bursting someone in a duel and need to sprint, block, and dodge while healing/dpsing over sustained fights.

Its harder to run more regen. Everything disables your stamina so in essence your wasting recovery.

As soon as magicka recovery, max stamina drinks come out ill be so happy.

What other than blocking and sneaking disables stam regen?

Sprinting cuts regen.

Dodgeroll and Bash on console do as well but only if your not quick enough. Its very tedious to do. You'll get mad finger cramps if you try to do these things quick enough for your regen to keep flowing consistently. If you try to double roll dodge you have to click R2+X and let go then repeat really fast to keep regen flowing. Holding R2 and rolling over and over can be killer on your regen since it counts as blocking. Blocking stops regen soo....

It's also very hard to bash without blocking and stopping your regen. This is why console specifically needs a 1 second stamina regen cool-down before blocking gets cut. PC has dedicated dodge-roll and bash buttons so this isn't an issue.

Stamina players on console can't really play like stamina players on pc because of this. You can if you try hard enough but i dont want arthritis.

This is also why i relie on cloak and run 1500 magicka regen. To many actions stop my stamina so theres honestly no point doing them (sprint,roll dodge,block,bash). I only do them when i cant cloak and i have to.

I have been trying to light attack ransacked bash as it's a great combo for 1H/S users but on console it's a pain compared to How easy it is on pc.

Then the problem is not how OP is magicka on consoles, but how bad is the design for console.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1uHX_WQsEY

IDK if that's considered a hack for ZOS, but i'm pretty tempted to try it...

GreenSoup2HoT

Jjitsuboy98 wrote: »

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

Kutsuu wrote: »

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

Kutsuu wrote: »

Moglijuana wrote: »

I've mained my Mag DK since console launch...and I have found that any stam class in BR is stupid easy resource management compared to my Mag DK...lol. I already play with low Mag Recovery (1533) on my MagDK and have to be very careful about what I cast and when...my stam classes? I play with like 1000 stam regen, maybe less and I can make so make so many mistakes in a fight and STILL WIN it's not even funny...if I make more than one mistake on mDK it usually results in death.

My opinion though.

Sounds like your mDK is a complete glass cannon setup. Most mDKs that I run into are very tough nuts to crack and have a lot of room to make mistakes and recover from them.

A stam class with less than 1k stam regen does take careful resource management. Especially when you are doing more than just bursting someone in a duel and need to sprint, block, and dodge while healing/dpsing over sustained fights.

Its harder to run more regen. Everything disables your stamina so in essence your wasting recovery.

As soon as magicka recovery, max stamina drinks come out ill be so happy.

What other than blocking and sneaking disables stam regen?

Sprinting cuts regen.

Dodgeroll and Bash on console do as well but only if your not quick enough. Its very tedious to do. You'll get mad finger cramps if you try to do these things quick enough for your regen to keep flowing consistently. If you try to double roll dodge you have to click R2+X and let go then repeat really fast to keep regen flowing. Holding R2 and rolling over and over can be killer on your regen since it counts as blocking. Blocking stops regen soo....

It's also very hard to bash without blocking and stopping your regen. This is why console specifically needs a 1 second stamina regen cool-down before blocking gets cut. PC has dedicated dodge-roll and bash buttons so this isn't an issue.

Stamina players on console can't really play like stamina players on pc because of this. You can if you try hard enough but i dont want arthritis.

This is also why i relie on cloak and run 1500 magicka regen. To many actions stop my stamina so theres honestly no point doing them (sprint,roll dodge,block,bash). I only do them when i cant cloak and i have to.

I have been trying to light attack ransacked bash as it's a great combo for 1H/S users but on console it's a pain compared to How easy it is on pc.

Yep.