PvP breaks the 2 BASIC tenets of game-play - How on earth did this happen?

Wycks

Considering ZOS's deep roots and years of experaince in PvP (DAOC), it's unreal they have currently BROKEN the 2 BASIC tenets of PvP.

1. Thou shall not let proc/rng determine the outcome of fights
2. Thou shall not let CC cause your character to being unplayable

@ZOS_BrianWheeler Seriously WTF.

Joshlenoir

S'all good bro. Viper tremorscale widowmaker, and all your problems fade away

Sigtric

Are you the PVP Messiah?

While I agree proc sets need to be reigned in, and I've spent hundreds of hours in DAOC Frontiers and Cyrodiil, I've never heard these commandments before.

Sanct16

How about cc break?

Waffennacht

With combat as quick as it is, It's really not "RnG" these sets essentially proc immediately after cooldown. For combat purposes I assume the proc sets will proc the moment possible when being used against me.

I do wonder if people would be this upset if these sets had been released from the beginning? If I had just started playing would the existence of these sets upset me?

My logic is, the Sharpened X of X vMA weapon I do not have gives players a power boost, these sets seem to be more easily accessible and also give players a power boost. If Im not upset about using one BiS item would others upset me too?

I guess, if these proc sets instead offered a flat offensive buff that equaled the same average dps over time that the current proc sets provide, would it still be viewed as OP? Example: let's just say selene does 12k every 4 secs, or 3k dps. If another armor set boosted me by 1k weapon damage (or whatever it would be to give me an additional 3k dps when distributed amongst my rotation) would Selene's still be viewed as OP?

I haven't decided yet

Paraflex

Well in Daoc you could use bolt range mez and unless you had purge you couldn't control your guy until the duration was over(30 seconds to 1.5mins stun) when damage you were free. Think of prolonged suffering but was area of effect but better.

I love this type of CC they need to bring it to ESO this would cause people to pay attention and strategies and jumping people would have a huge impact in the open field.

Vaoh

Waffennacht wrote: »

With combat as quick as it is, It's really not "RnG" these sets essentially proc immediately after cooldown. For combat purposes I assume the proc sets will proc the moment possible when being used against me.

I do wonder if people would be this upset if these sets had been released from the beginning? If I had just started playing would the existence of these sets upset me?

My logic is, the Sharpened X of X vMA weapon I do not have gives players a power boost, these sets seem to be more easily accessible and also give players a power boost. If Im not upset about using one BiS item would others upset me too?

I guess, if these proc sets instead offered a flat offensive buff that equaled the same average dps over time that the current proc sets provide, would it still be viewed as OP? Example: let's just say selene does 12k every 4 secs, or 3k dps. If another armor set boosted me by 1k weapon damage (or whatever it would be to give me an additional 3k dps when distributed amongst my rotation) would Selene's still be viewed as OP?

I haven't decided yet

Absolutely. If I just started playing ESO and entered PvP (just to die every minute to one-shots) I would likely quit the game and return it. It's not a fun playstyle.

As for your 1K constant Weapon/Spell damage comparison.....

The BiS PvE DPS set for most Magicka builds is Burning Spellweave. Its 5-piece grants 600 Spell Damage for 8sec with a 12sec cooldown (400SD constant) and sometimes does not proc within the first second off cooldown. A constant 1K Spell Damage buff would be 2.5x-3x stronger! This is not even to mention that Burning Spellweave requires 5 pieces, whereas these monster helms require only 2 pieces.

I'm not sure if 1K constant Power is equal to the true value, but this is the actual situation for Tremorscale and Viper's Sting. Tremorscale is stronger, but you may as well slot both because you can.

These procs sets are ruining PvP for an entirely different reason though. PvP is about burst damage, rather than constant, purgeable DPS like from DoTs. These procs are undodgeable, near-impossible to predict, and are equivalent to actual active skill damage. They could never be balanced when 1 high-DPS active skill hit = 3-4 high-DPS active skill hits.

If hit by a Pierce Armor by a max damage build, it can proc Tremorscale and will proc Viper's Sting. The combined burst from procs is enough to oneshot most builds, without even needing to consider dropping a Dawnbreaker. Were talking about bursting down players with 561CP here who have strong armor.

The Q1 2017 major patch really needs to address these proc sets. PvP is screwed right now. You only have one highly populated server on PS4 NA these days, with Haderus losing more and more players all the time.

Mojmir

The only way they could fix it is make it a separate game all together.

Derra

Wycks wrote: »

Considering ZOS's deep roots and years of experaince in PvP (DAOC), it's unreal they have currently BROKEN the 2 BASIC tenets of PvP.

1. Thou shall not let proc/rng determine the outcome of fights
2. Thou shall not let CC cause your character to being unplayable

@ZOS_BrianWheeler Seriously WTF.

Honestly i don´t think any of the responsible devs have played daoc (or if they did they played a warlock on release patch).
Or they don´t play their own game.

It´s one of those two options.

However the bigger problem is: They can´t provide a scenario where the server does not lag. Which leads to everyone running in a zerg because that´s the only way to not die instantly when attacked in lag - but creates more lag.

I honestly thing the current 500+ ping lag is worse than the 5min unplayable lagspikes of patch 1.6.
Atleast in 1.6 everyones ability to play the game was hindered the same way. The current "unresponsive game" lag makes you unable to defend yourself while multiple people attacking you have no issue in slaughtering you.

Kutsuu

Sigtric wrote: »

Are you the PVP Messiah?

While I agree proc sets need to be reigned in, and I've spent hundreds of hours in DAOC Frontiers and Cyrodiil, I've never heard these commandments before.

I was also going to mention DAOC. That game was loaded with RNG and it was one of the best PVP games I've ever played - with only the "good times" of Age of Conan being better in my opinion.

The RNG element adds the unknown to your fights. Are you going to get a huge crit on your opener and devastate your opponent, or are they going to block/dodge/parry your stun and eat you alive? While a game like Blade & Soul is more competitive with almost no RNG elements to it, it's also more difficult and fight outcomes are often decided on a mix of class matchup and skill - if not for a matchmaking system, many fights would be an absolute no-win situation for lesser opponents.

Xsorus

Kutsuu wrote: »

Sigtric wrote: »

Are you the PVP Messiah?

While I agree proc sets need to be reigned in, and I've spent hundreds of hours in DAOC Frontiers and Cyrodiil, I've never heard these commandments before.

I was also going to mention DAOC. That game was loaded with RNG and it was one of the best PVP games I've ever played - with only the "good times" of Age of Conan being better in my opinion.

The RNG element adds the unknown to your fights. Are you going to get a huge crit on your opener and devastate your opponent, or are they going to block/dodge/parry your stun and eat you alive? While a game like Blade & Soul is more competitive with almost no RNG elements to it, it's also more difficult and fight outcomes are often decided on a mix of class matchup and skill - if not for a matchmaking system, many fights would be an absolute no-win situation for lesser opponents.

hey Kutsuu, long time no see..but yea...

DAOC had a *** ton of range...Things like Battler/Malice/Legendary Weapons (Sun Spear) all come to mind...

Or Shades of Mist in some regards.

cschwingeb14_ESO

Vaoh wrote: »

If hit by a Pierce Armor by a max damage build, it can proc Tremorscale and will proc Viper's Sting. The combined burst from procs is enough to oneshot most builds, without even needing to consider dropping a Dawnbreaker. Were talking about bursting down players with 561CP here who have strong armor.

Viper and velidreth's is definitely to much benefit for a 5-piece or monster set, but it's not a completely terrible design. It's also only going to oneshot the weakest builds out there. And I'm actually very much in favor of players actually having a reason to have more than the bare minimum of health, that everyone seems to want to build around

Some amount of front loading (as opposed to WD/SD buffs) for a set bonus should be allowed. But realistically, 350-400 WD is the benchmark for a 5-piece. That's about +8% damage. We can probably spend a lot of time talking about out what +8% damage over 4 second really means, but I'm betting it's about 1/2 to 2/3rds the current value for Viper.

Brutusmax1mus

cschwingeb14_ESO wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

If hit by a Pierce Armor by a max damage build, it can proc Tremorscale and will proc Viper's Sting. The combined burst from procs is enough to oneshot most builds, without even needing to consider dropping a Dawnbreaker. Were talking about bursting down players with 561CP here who have strong armor.

Viper and velidreth's is definitely to much benefit for a 5-piece or monster set, but it's not a completely terrible design. It's also only going to oneshot the weakest builds out there. And I'm actually very much in favor of players actually having a reason to have more than the bare minimum of health, that everyone seems to want to build around

Some amount of front loading (as opposed to WD/SD buffs) for a set bonus should be allowed. But realistically, 350-400 WD is the benchmark for a 5-piece. That's about +8% damage. We can probably spend a lot of time talking about out what +8% damage over 4 second really means, but I'm betting it's about 1/2 to 2/3rds the current value for Viper.

Viper falls into the same boat as incap. It's a single target free/extremely cheap high damage attack. If 8% damage is what it works out to be, and even if it was only 1/2 the damage over 4 seconds, you're talking single target and are excluding aoe attacks which the On some builds, that 8% damage proc makes you able to take out 6 people, instead of just 1.

Viper is fine, velidreth of fine, red mountain etc are fine... by themselves. The problem lies in the procs happening all at once.