The Issue with Soul Assault

acw37162

arkansas_ESO wrote: »

The entire point of SA's buffs was to make it a harder counter to people using dodgeroll

And heavy Block Build

Minalan

Waffennacht wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Oh, please, cry me a river about your poor stamblade. What do you think how we shield users think about Shieldbreaker? How magicka users feel about stuns, roots and blocks. How good it feels to have 90% of your projectiles dodged, evaded or reflected. Stam builds are OP as hell and require the same hard counters magicka had. You want advice, buddy? Get good, make use of your class strength (it's gank and pressure for NBs) and don't rely on Wroebel giving you godmode every single update. In short, learn to play the Meta you've been granted.

Your comment is way too whiney to take serious. Take some naproxen sodium, then re-think your response.

Wait, aren't you the dude who made a thread just to complain about an ultimate and keeps arguing with people offering advice and insight? That's the definition of crying, dear.

Arguing a point, and having an emotional outburst are two different things.

He has a point. I can't count how many threads people tell you to 'slot radiant!' to deal with rabid, out of control stam nightblades.

So. We have to slot the useless crappy morph of a guild skill that many of us depend on, waste a bar slot, and take a 5% damage and shield reduction just to get one shot ganked regardless?

To stop SA spam, go sword and board and use the new shield ult! How does crippling *your* build sound for a change?

Well slotting a single ability is drastically different then slotting a different weapon; so I wouldn't call slot mage light "crippling". As far as dealing with cloak: on Nightblades I slot piercing mark, on DKs I use talons, on Templars I just jab lol (Templars have it so easy), with my stam sorc I use hurricane.

Here's thing, SA does twice as much damage as the bow ultimate, cost nearly half as much, and unlike the bow ultimate you can't dodge it. SA needs to be brought in line with the bow ultimate; another single target channeling ultimate.

Then neither would be used, bow ult should be brought into line with SA imo

Can't disagree with that. And undodgeable.

Paraflex

Nope no way would I ever want this skill changed mag users need a solid way to deal with dodge roll spammers....I don't feel bad at all when I see a person dodge roll twice I Soul Assault and they die....I think back over the last few years at how much Stam benefited from dodge rolling

CapuchinSeven

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Then you're fighting some weak opponents. Try fighting someone with decent damage.

*eye roll*

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

aidenmoore wrote: »

What's stopping Medium Armor from blocking while getting hit with Soul Assault?

Nothing, I block while having Rally and Vigor active, and unless I have around 60% of my max health I'm dead.

You know what else dies from 60% health in the blink of an eye? Everything my proct stam blade touches and for anything left there's Dawnbreaker.

What you're moaning about, magic users have been dealing with for months.

Derra

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

It´s the only thing keeping trippleprocc builds in check. I´d rather not have it changed before we get a change to proccsets.

Viper + widowmaker + selene/veli/tremor is really bad. Atleast it has an easy to use counter that´s equally powerful against the requirement of 5 medium armor.

Incorrect. SA is no big deal against heavy armored proc sets or against shields stacking magicka characters. It's just an easy win against medium armored builds. All this move is doing is making more and more stam characters switch to heavy.

Yeah. Reread what i wrote @Strider_Roshin because you clearly did not take the 15 seconds to read and understand the 3 lines of my post (in fact not even the first sentence - wow thanks a lot).

Strider_Roshin

Derra wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

It´s the only thing keeping trippleprocc builds in check. I´d rather not have it changed before we get a change to proccsets.

Viper + widowmaker + selene/veli/tremor is really bad. Atleast it has an easy to use counter that´s equally powerful against the requirement of 5 medium armor.

Incorrect. SA is no big deal against heavy armored proc sets or against shields stacking magicka characters. It's just an easy win against medium armored builds. All this move is doing is making more and more stam characters switch to heavy.

Yeah. Reread what i wrote @Strider_Roshin because you clearly did not take the 15 seconds to read and understand the 3 lines of my post (in fact not even the first sentence - wow thanks a lot).

If you're referring to medium armored proc builds; they're not as much of an issue as the heavy are since the heavy proc builds can dish out a ton of free damage while at the same time being able to handle it in return.

Lava_Croft

Soul Assault is like a really *** version of Jesus Beam.

Stop crying already.

Strider_Roshin

acw37162 wrote: »

arkansas_ESO wrote: »

The entire point of SA's buffs was to make it a harder counter to people using dodgeroll

And heavy Block Build

It honestly does nothing against a heavy block build. That's part of the point I'm trying to convey.

Anti_Virus

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Oh, please, cry me a river about your poor stamblade. What do you think how we shield users think about Shieldbreaker? How magicka users feel about stuns, roots and blocks. How good it feels to have 90% of your projectiles dodged, evaded or reflected. Stam builds are OP as hell and require the same hard counters magicka had. You want advice, buddy? Get good, make use of your class strength (it's gank and pressure for NBs) and don't rely on Wroebel giving you godmode every single update. In short, learn to play the Meta you've been granted.

Your comment is way too whiney to take serious. Take some naproxen sodium, then re-think your response.

Wait, aren't you the dude who made a thread just to complain about an ultimate and keeps arguing with people offering advice and insight? That's the definition of crying, dear.

You didn't offer advice, just got all but hurt.

Brutusmax1mus

1 of the ultimates of the bow let's you do actions like heal, dodge, block, dps, bash, gap close, stealth out, You get the point. It doesn't need more than it has.

Anti_Virus

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

1 of the ultimates of the bow let's you do actions like heal, dodge, block, dps, bash, gap close, stealth out, You get the point. It doesn't need more than it has.

You can also still dodge the turrent, plus it doesn't snare you and prevent you from cloacking.

Rikumaru

CapuchinSeven wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Then you're fighting some weak opponents. Try fighting someone with decent damage.

*eye roll*

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

aidenmoore wrote: »

What's stopping Medium Armor from blocking while getting hit with Soul Assault?

Nothing, I block while having Rally and Vigor active, and unless I have around 60% of my max health I'm dead.

You know what else dies from 60% health in the blink of an eye? Everything my proct stam blade touches and for anything left there's Dawnbreaker.

What you're moaning about, magic users have been dealing with for months.

Balancing broken things with more broken things isn't how game balance is achieved.

UppGRAYxDD

My only issue is that I cannot spam it enough....my jeebus beam is starting to get jelly.

exeeter702

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Oh, please, cry me a river about your poor stamblade. What do you think how we shield users think about Shieldbreaker? How magicka users feel about stuns, roots and blocks. How good it feels to have 90% of your projectiles dodged, evaded or reflected. Stam builds are OP as hell and require the same hard counters magicka had. You want advice, buddy? Get good, make use of your class strength (it's gank and pressure for NBs) and don't rely on Wroebel giving you godmode every single update. In short, learn to play the Meta you've been granted.

Your comment is way too whiney to take serious. Take some naproxen sodium, then re-think your response.

He is not wrong though...

exeeter702

Anti_Virus wrote: »

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

1 of the ultimates of the bow let's you do actions like heal, dodge, block, dps, bash, gap close, stealth out, You get the point. It doesn't need more than it has.

You can also still dodge the turrent, plus ot doesn't snare you and prevent you from cloacking.

And the bow ult has a higher achievable tool tup damage, has benefits in both gear sets and passive skills, and synergizes with focused aim for example, making it the hardest hitting ultimate form the farthest potential range. Stam users want the bow ultimate to be another slot and forget = get results, much akin to poison injection. Could the bow skill line use a touch of help? Sure, but you have to make the ult work.

SA counters one single build and nothing pleases me more then killing some all-in, zero defence besides shuffle, medium armor proc neckbeard.

Derra

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

It´s the only thing keeping trippleprocc builds in check. I´d rather not have it changed before we get a change to proccsets.

Viper + widowmaker + selene/veli/tremor is really bad. Atleast it has an easy to use counter that´s equally powerful against the requirement of 5 medium armor.

Incorrect. SA is no big deal against heavy armored proc sets or against shields stacking magicka characters. It's just an easy win against medium armored builds. All this move is doing is making more and more stam characters switch to heavy.

Yeah. Reread what i wrote @Strider_Roshin because you clearly did not take the 15 seconds to read and understand the 3 lines of my post (in fact not even the first sentence - wow thanks a lot).

If you're referring to medium armored proc builds; they're not as much of an issue as the heavy are since the heavy proc builds can dish out a ton of free damage while at the same time being able to handle it in return.

Well i guess it´s entirely subjective. I have no issue with heavy armor procc builds as they can not equip a third proccdmg set. Viper tremorscale especially is very predictable and comes no way close to what a trippleprocc medium build can dish out.

exeeter702

Rikumaru wrote: »

CapuchinSeven wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Then you're fighting some weak opponents. Try fighting someone with decent damage.

*eye roll*

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

aidenmoore wrote: »

What's stopping Medium Armor from blocking while getting hit with Soul Assault?

Nothing, I block while having Rally and Vigor active, and unless I have around 60% of my max health I'm dead.

You know what else dies from 60% health in the blink of an eye? Everything my proct stam blade touches and for anything left there's Dawnbreaker.

What you're moaning about, magic users have been dealing with for months.

Balancing broken things with more broken things isn't how game balance is achieved.

No it isn't but the OP didn't make a thread to discuss that point. The thread was made to *** about single skill in a sea of nonsense that permeates eso pvp.

Minalan

CapuchinSeven wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Then you're fighting some weak opponents. Try fighting someone with decent damage.

*eye roll*

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

aidenmoore wrote: »

What's stopping Medium Armor from blocking while getting hit with Soul Assault?

Nothing, I block while having Rally and Vigor active, and unless I have around 60% of my max health I'm dead.

You know what else dies from 60% health in the blink of an eye? Everything my proct stam blade touches and for anything left there's Dawnbreaker.

What you're moaning about, magic users have been dealing with for months.

So much truth here. Since Dark Brotherhood dropped really. I can't count how many times the stam guys have told me to "L2P" and get over it. Meanwhile they kill you with one DB plus dizzying swing, or they crit rush and instajib you with three animation cancelled attacks. (LOL Macroslice!). Or use the proc sets that got worse with Hist sets (Velidreth).

This is what they all consider 'the most balanced game ever'.

Then magicka gets soul Assault (a horrible four second channel self-rooting suicide pact) and eye of the storm (the only magicka ultimate remotely comparable to dawnbreaker).

Suddenly the game isn't 'balanced' anymore because light armor magicka types can't be killed by drooling on your little stam player keyboards.

Sorry guys, I don't even play stam and I can think of 11 different ways to kill my squishy light armor Sorc if I try to pull off a soul Assault in the middle of a fight.

Izaki

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Been dueling today and I'm convinced that Soul Assault is 100% for trolling. I'm literally able to just mash someone face in with sweeps+jesus beam and do more damage than the person soul assaulting me...

arkansas_ESO wrote: »

The entire point of SA's buffs was to make it a harder counter to people using dodgeroll

Yeah, but those people don't want their easy mode defensive strategy to get countered, its the same reason that they hate jesus beam

Oh look, a magicka user stating that they have no issue with SA. Easy mode isn't spamming dodge roll; easy mode is spamming shields, and bringing your health to full with one breath of life.

Did you really just say that magicka builds were easier to play this patch that stamina builds? You're kinda right about everything except the fact that its easy mode. I know stambuilds aren't as easy as everyone states, but magicka builds aren't either. Both have their difficulties.

Strider_Roshin

IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Been dueling today and I'm convinced that Soul Assault is 100% for trolling. I'm literally able to just mash someone face in with sweeps+jesus beam and do more damage than the person soul assaulting me...

arkansas_ESO wrote: »

The entire point of SA's buffs was to make it a harder counter to people using dodgeroll

Yeah, but those people don't want their easy mode defensive strategy to get countered, its the same reason that they hate jesus beam

Oh look, a magicka user stating that they have no issue with SA. Easy mode isn't spamming dodge roll; easy mode is spamming shields, and bringing your health to full with one breath of life.

Did you really just say that magicka builds were easier to play this patch that stamina builds? You're kinda right about everything except the fact that its easy mode. I know stambuilds aren't as easy as everyone states, but magicka builds aren't either. Both have their difficulties.

Sorry, I was merely retorting an asinine statement with another exaggeration. IMO playing medium or light armor in the game's current state is much more challenging than playing heavy, and I would further argue that playing MagDK or MagNB in light armor is especially challenging.

The simple fact is that heavy armor is way over performing, and needs to be adjusted. Abilities such as SA is only exacerbating the situation, and encouraging more medium armor wearers to switch to heavy.

Anti_Virus

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Been dueling today and I'm convinced that Soul Assault is 100% for trolling. I'm literally able to just mash someone face in with sweeps+jesus beam and do more damage than the person soul assaulting me...

arkansas_ESO wrote: »

The entire point of SA's buffs was to make it a harder counter to people using dodgeroll

Yeah, but those people don't want their easy mode defensive strategy to get countered, its the same reason that they hate jesus beam

Oh look, a magicka user stating that they have no issue with SA. Easy mode isn't spamming dodge roll; easy mode is spamming shields, and bringing your health to full with one breath of life.

Did you really just say that magicka builds were easier to play this patch that stamina builds? You're kinda right about everything except the fact that its easy mode. I know stambuilds aren't as easy as everyone states, but magicka builds aren't either. Both have their difficulties.

Sorry, I was merely retorting an asinine statement with another exaggeration. IMO playing medium or light armor in the game's current state is much more challenging than playing heavy, and I would further argue that playing MagDK or MagNB in light armor is especially challenging.

The simple fact is that heavy armor is way over performing, and needs to be adjusted. Abilities such as SA is only exacerbating the situation, and encouraging more medium armor wearers to switch to heavy.

Lol heavy armor in games is usually hard to balance. I for one love heavy armor but it's not the meta like everone says it is

Medium and Light Armro need to be brought up, but that is a discussion or another time.

zuto40

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Oh, please, cry me a river about your poor stamblade. What do you think how we shield users think about Shieldbreaker? How magicka users feel about stuns, roots and blocks. How good it feels to have 90% of your projectiles dodged, evaded or reflected. Stam builds are OP as hell and require the same hard counters magicka had. You want advice, buddy? Get good, make use of your class strength (it's gank and pressure for NBs) and don't rely on Wroebel giving you godmode every single update. In short, learn to play the Meta you've been granted.

feels good when 90% of your melee attacks are dodged, stam isnt op, its shuffle and proc sets, remove both and i'll be happy on my stamblade

Waffennacht

zuto40 wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Oh, please, cry me a river about your poor stamblade. What do you think how we shield users think about Shieldbreaker? How magicka users feel about stuns, roots and blocks. How good it feels to have 90% of your projectiles dodged, evaded or reflected. Stam builds are OP as hell and require the same hard counters magicka had. You want advice, buddy? Get good, make use of your class strength (it's gank and pressure for NBs) and don't rely on Wroebel giving you godmode every single update. In short, learn to play the Meta you've been granted.

feels good when 90% of your melee attacks are dodged, stam isnt op, its shuffle and proc sets, remove both and i'll be happy on my stamblade

As a mag sorc, dodging even 1 of our 3 attacks can be devastating for the burst. Yay Curse went off... and frag misses... and they're back to full health...

Though the heavy DKs and heavy Temps that use shuffle ontop of their ridiculously high heals... well... they can be very very annoying

Xvorg

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Granting CC immunity, preventing cloak, and being un-interruptable were good changes. Now here's the bad:

For one, it didn't need a damage buff. The damage was already crazy strong. My biggest gripe however is the fact that you cannot dodge it. If you're magicka, you can just spam shields, and continue with your day. If you're SnS you can just block it, and shrug it off. If You're medium armor however, you just die. This move needs to be dodge-able just like the bow Ultimate is. The fact that it can wreck just about every medium armor builds effortlessly is not balanced.

IMHO, it was stronger before. I used it a lot before this patch and it was easier to kill medium armor guys beacuse they have no chance to block+vigor

arkansas_ESO

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

1 of the ultimates of the bow let's you do actions like heal, dodge, block, dps, bash, gap close, stealth out, You get the point. It doesn't need more than it has.

Semi-related, but can't you use VMSA DW to buff the bow ult by an extra 2k-ish weapon damage? There's a good reason it's dodgeable and SA isn't.

Xexpo

First, SA is Surprise Attack not Soul Assault.

Nightblades be like

I kept getting confused during the first page.
I think we should all start calling soul assault Sass

---

Second, after Sassing some people and being Sassed on both magicka and stamina toons.
The Sass feels just about right, it actually feels like an effective Ultimate vs. a single target.
Which is an upgrade from it's previous status of 'meh'.
Can Sass still be effective without every single buff it got?
Probably, but I'd have to agree with some of the people here that it should get in line behind the stamina / proc prevalence if we are talking about nerf priority.
It also gives certain magicka builds a reasonable execute type Ult.

zuto40

Waffennacht wrote: »

zuto40 wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Oh, please, cry me a river about your poor stamblade. What do you think how we shield users think about Shieldbreaker? How magicka users feel about stuns, roots and blocks. How good it feels to have 90% of your projectiles dodged, evaded or reflected. Stam builds are OP as hell and require the same hard counters magicka had. You want advice, buddy? Get good, make use of your class strength (it's gank and pressure for NBs) and don't rely on Wroebel giving you godmode every single update. In short, learn to play the Meta you've been granted.

feels good when 90% of your melee attacks are dodged, stam isnt op, its shuffle and proc sets, remove both and i'll be happy on my stamblade

As a mag sorc, dodging even 1 of our 3 attacks can be devastating for the burst. Yay Curse went off... and frag misses... and they're back to full health...

Though the heavy DKs and heavy Temps that use shuffle ontop of their ridiculously high heals... well... they can be very very annoying

Annoying is putting it lightly

Derra

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Been dueling today and I'm convinced that Soul Assault is 100% for trolling. I'm literally able to just mash someone face in with sweeps+jesus beam and do more damage than the person soul assaulting me...

arkansas_ESO wrote: »

The entire point of SA's buffs was to make it a harder counter to people using dodgeroll

Yeah, but those people don't want their easy mode defensive strategy to get countered, its the same reason that they hate jesus beam

Oh look, a magicka user stating that they have no issue with SA. Easy mode isn't spamming dodge roll; easy mode is spamming shields, and bringing your health to full with one breath of life.

Did you really just say that magicka builds were easier to play this patch that stamina builds? You're kinda right about everything except the fact that its easy mode. I know stambuilds aren't as easy as everyone states, but magicka builds aren't either. Both have their difficulties.

Sorry, I was merely retorting an asinine statement with another exaggeration. IMO playing medium or light armor in the game's current state is much more challenging than playing heavy, and I would further argue that playing MagDK or MagNB in light armor is especially challenging.

The simple fact is that heavy armor is way over performing, and needs to be adjusted. Abilities such as SA is only exacerbating the situation, and encouraging more medium armor wearers to switch to heavy.

I´d argue that playing magblade on a necropotence setup is not really challenging. Limited in terms of options - sure. But not challenging.

Magica templar and DK as they both require melee to some extend and that does not work well with light armor.

SodanTok

Yesterday I found the real issue with soul assault. Its lag. This skill is like press R to win anytime target has around 20k hp left and ping is over 200. Still as medium armor user not stealth ganking, but actually fighting, this skill doesnt need fix. Lag needs fixing.

Kutsuu

Minalan wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Oh, please, cry me a river about your poor stamblade. What do you think how we shield users think about Shieldbreaker? How magicka users feel about stuns, roots and blocks. How good it feels to have 90% of your projectiles dodged, evaded or reflected. Stam builds are OP as hell and require the same hard counters magicka had. You want advice, buddy? Get good, make use of your class strength (it's gank and pressure for NBs) and don't rely on Wroebel giving you godmode every single update. In short, learn to play the Meta you've been granted.

Your comment is way too whiney to take serious. Take some naproxen sodium, then re-think your response.

Wait, aren't you the dude who made a thread just to complain about an ultimate and keeps arguing with people offering advice and insight? That's the definition of crying, dear.

Arguing a point, and having an emotional outburst are two different things.

He has a point. I can't count how many threads people tell you to 'slot radiant!' to deal with rabid, out of control stam nightblades.

So. We have to slot the useless crappy morph of a guild skill that many of us depend on, waste a bar slot, and take a 5% damage and shield reduction just to get one shot ganked regardless?

To stop SA spam, go sword and board and use the new shield ult! How does crippling *your* build sound for a change?

Lmao - Radiant is an amazing skill in PVP. Might of the guild, reduced damage and no stun from sneak attacks, stealth reveal and detection on demand, and major prophecy... I always use it when I'm soloing in Cyrodiil (even on stam builds) because it gives me tremendous advantage over ganky clever alchemist Nightblades - I collect so many APs from those little fellas.