Give us back a skill-based competitive game.

Baphomet

Over time, this game has become less and less about player skills (timing, dodging, blocking, movement etc.) and more about having the right equipment. Nowadays gear wins the game, not the player behind the character. All these set bonuses and item procs have taken a lot away from the game, in my opinion.
Yes, most patches have led to a lot of "flavor of the month" builds, but all the exotic gear makes things a whole lot worse than it has to be.
I really believe that this game should steer back to the path it was once on where the players had their health, stamina and magicka pools + their characters' abilities - and then let them contest on more equal terms (instead of only having a handful of viable builds each update - many of which rely on very specific item sets and procs).
The struggle to "simply" balance the different classes' abilities has been overwhelming to begin with, but it is getting completely out of hand when you have to do that and think gear into the equation at the same time.

Just some food for thought.

WillhelmBlack

Unfortunately, ZOS will completely ignore this thread.

Alucardo

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

Unfortunately, ZOS will completely ignore this thread.

And then add some more game changing sets in the next update

Lava_Croft

Skill-based combat is not what pleases the casuals who make up the vast majority of ESO's current player base. Random chance is what levels the playing field, making combat *** for skilled players and awesome for casuals.

Mauz

Alucardo wrote: »

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

Unfortunately, ZOS will completely ignore this thread.

And then add some more game changing PvE sets in the next update

Fix that for you. And thats in my opinion the point. They make changes to improve the situation in PvE completely blind what will happen to PvP due to these changes. Removal of soft caps, champion pt system, proc sets etc. It takes always at least half an year for a PvP patch.

I play since pre release. I'm casual, I don't spend that much time in game than others and if I have time I like to PvP. So I#m'm PvP only, never saw a dungeon from inside. But I like theory crafting and game mechanics. So it was for me never an issue to compete although I did not have the last PvE set in best quality.

Until 1.5 I would say I did not have a significant disadvantage to others. Even after CP system I was quite satisfied with non cp Azura. I use what I get as reward but it was still fun although there were more and more builds based on 2 piece sets which simply outperformed my character.

But now it becomes even in Azura more and more unplayable. More and more ppl have access to viper, velidreth, selene etc. I'm not having a single death screen without set procs since days. But what made me decide to make a break now is that I'm more and more 1-hitted by ppl using 3 sets dealing 13k+ dmg with the set alone. And this in Azura.

PvP right now is completely pointless. This game developed from a pure skill based game to something which is even more depending on gear than WoW which is my opinion the most uncompetitive PvP game I ever saw.

Sublime

Income statement and balance sheet says no.

TheBonesXXX

I bitched right along with ya Baphomet.

I think the game when it focused more on raw mechanics and skill use, timing, and character mastery the game was a lot better.

Now its about buff the *** out of your character and two shot everyone to overcome said mechanics.

Paraflex

A skilled player will always do well no matter the situation or gear....a bad player can be carried by the right cheese gear (viper,tremor/BR currently fotm).

I do think this game is watering down the skilled player pool by adding cheese builds. Just stop creating garbage sets and nerf the current ones.

The bad players will look for the next best fotm set and still be unskilled.

smashcats

ok so you can roll dodge and block in this mmo im still not seeing why everyone thinks it so skilled based...?

its always gonna be gear based...even if u don't wanna follow the meta, you're trying your best to use gear that is up to par aren't you? and without it, your build wouldn't be any good no matter how many times u roll dodged or blocked or whatever it is you are trying to pass off as "skill based"

and guess what? you're actually doing nothing in this game, because your ability's do it for you...pressing 1,2,3,4,5....the height of skill based competitive play apparently.

a1i3nz

Welcome to We Dont Every Really Know What To Do <ONLINE>

Where the devs desperately tried to pull this game from the abyss of video game failure and ended up pleasing the lowest common denominator.

All the time I put into this game figuring eventually they'd fix the lag and the last bit of balancing. Instead they fix the lag (mostly) and add crazy unbalanced proc sets.... Wtf goes through their minds?

THEY WERE SOOOO CLOSE!

WreckfulAbandon

Skill will usually win out over gear unless there is a huge disparity in numbers (stat wise or player wise). There are a ton of new sets this patch, and when competent players build to combat the meta, they can be successful.

Xvorg

WreckfulAbandon wrote: »

Skill will usually win out over gear unless there is a huge disparity in numbers (stat wise or player wise). There are a ton of new sets this patch, and when competent players build to combat the meta, they can be successful.

I agree with you, certainly you need skill to roll dice or bet on the roulette.

Even coin-coss needs skill

FearlessOne_2014

Lava_Croft wrote: »

Skill-based combat is not what pleases the casuals who make up the vast majority of ESO's current player base. Random chance is what levels the playing field, making combat *** for skilled players and awesome for casuals.

After I understood ZOS wanted to completely cater to the brain dead casual to such a degree. I stopped playing ESO. Been 3 weeks since I've even had ESO installed on my computer. And I have a account super fitting of a "whale". My point is, if you want skill based combat you might as well stop holding you breath for it to come back to ESO. The days of "Skill-based Combat in ESO are far behind us. And it looks like it's only going to get worst.

Truth of the matter is in today's time. If you are looking for skill based combat. Then don't play the games that constantly trying to use casuals to fund them. Go to the games who's dev team get paid based on how competitive and skill-based their game is. If you are not willing to do this as I have. Then you must come true to yourself and admit. That you are not looking for a skill based game, but for your personal playstyle to become on the same OP level as the Proc Meta is now. In which case that's ok too. You'll just have to wait your turn for ZOS to decide to swing the Meta back into your corner. And then you can just stomp all the players that you complaining about now, with little to no skill involved.

Kutsuu

BS... The game has never had more build options than it does now. Just because you guys all lemming up behind a few streamers and use their builds does not mean there are only a few viable builds. It simply means the streamers are using a few builds and much of the player base follows their word like religion.

In any case, I guess with those rosy glasses you're forgetting about the ult cost/vampire issues, bash dmg stacking, permablocking and dodging, old streak, camo hunter, etc... The game has certainly improved in balance over time.

It's always been a spammy game and skill is primarily in the strategic category. Using LOS, knowing when to CC, abusing the strengths of your build to maximum effect, that kind thing.

Valencer

Kutsuu wrote: »

BS... The game has never had more build options than it does now. Just because you guys all lemming up behind a few streamers and use their builds does not mean there are only a few viable builds. It simply means the streamers are using a few builds and much of the player base follows their word like religion.

In any case, I guess with those rosy glasses you're forgetting about the ult cost/vampire issues, bash dmg stacking, permablocking and dodging, old streak, camo hunter, etc... The game has certainly improved in balance over time.

It's always been a spammy game and skill is primarily in the strategic category. Using LOS, knowing when to CC, abusing the strengths of your build to maximum effect, that kind thing.

"Permablocking" and perma-rolling both had counters and at least you were using active defenses to make yourself tough to kill. Ill take that over the current gearfest/zergfest any day.

Kutsuu

Valencer wrote: »

Kutsuu wrote: »

BS... The game has never had more build options than it does now. Just because you guys all lemming up behind a few streamers and use their builds does not mean there are only a few viable builds. It simply means the streamers are using a few builds and much of the player base follows their word like religion.

In any case, I guess with those rosy glasses you're forgetting about the ult cost/vampire issues, bash dmg stacking, permablocking and dodging, old streak, camo hunter, etc... The game has certainly improved in balance over time.

It's always been a spammy game and skill is primarily in the strategic category. Using LOS, knowing when to CC, abusing the strengths of your build to maximum effect, that kind thing.

"Permablocking" and perma-rolling both had counters and at least you were using active defenses to make yourself tough to kill. Ill take that over the current gearfest/zergfest any day.

You picked two things that don't bother you much and ignored the rest in order to try making a point. Along with those things comes the zero cost bat swarm, giant long duration sorc shields, magicka DKs, and of course the other things I mentioned.

It's always been a zergfest, and gear has always mattered. You can't pretend this game used to be something else when the rest of us have been playing it the whole time.

Kryank

Kutsuu wrote: »

BS... The game has never had more build options than it does now. Just because you guys all lemming up behind a few streamers and use their builds does not mean there are only a few viable builds. It simply means the streamers are using a few builds and much of the player base follows their word like religion.

In any case, I guess with those rosy glasses you're forgetting about the ult cost/vampire issues, bash dmg stacking, permablocking and dodging, old streak, camo hunter, etc... The game has certainly improved in balance over time.

It's always been a spammy game and skill is primarily in the strategic category. Using LOS, knowing when to CC, abusing the strengths of your build to maximum effect, that kind thing.

Hi mate,
whilst i agree with the fact that there has always been some kind of 'cheese' builds i do think this proc meta has got out of hand, been ganked is one thing getting one shot from stealth while you were looking at your map, or on a horse could be combated by slotting a few skills and stuff, i have no problem with 'ganking' or general cheese my problem is that you can be hit by ransack a cheap spammable non ultimate ability and take 20k instant damage due to proc sets, its easier to survive ultimate's than that. That is the issue in my opinion a skill that is spammable inflicts major fracture and procs 15 - 20k damage AND costs under 1.5k stam.

PvP balance at its best.

Valencer

Kutsuu wrote: »

Valencer wrote: »

Kutsuu wrote: »

BS... The game has never had more build options than it does now. Just because you guys all lemming up behind a few streamers and use their builds does not mean there are only a few viable builds. It simply means the streamers are using a few builds and much of the player base follows their word like religion.

In any case, I guess with those rosy glasses you're forgetting about the ult cost/vampire issues, bash dmg stacking, permablocking and dodging, old streak, camo hunter, etc... The game has certainly improved in balance over time.

It's always been a spammy game and skill is primarily in the strategic category. Using LOS, knowing when to CC, abusing the strengths of your build to maximum effect, that kind thing.

"Permablocking" and perma-rolling both had counters and at least you were using active defenses to make yourself tough to kill. Ill take that over the current gearfest/zergfest any day.

You picked two things that don't bother you much and ignored the rest in order to try making a point. Along with those things comes the zero cost bat swarm, giant long duration sorc shields, magicka DKs, and of course the other things I mentioned.

It's always been a zergfest, and gear has always mattered. You can't pretend this game used to be something else when the rest of us have been playing it the whole time.

Zero cost bat swarm, bash dmg stacking and the old streak (by which I assume you mean no spam penalty whatsoever) were all fixed/nerfed relatively quickly. I dont think anyone's really saying they miss those things specifically.

Just because the early release version of this game had those specific issues doesnt mean the whole game was in a bad state.

Sure, AvA is always going to be a zergfest but that doesnt mean there can't be more or less emphasis on winning through sheer force of numbers. At the moment youre mostly just out of luck if the other alliance brings more numbers than yours and that's honestly a pretty sad state for PvP to be in. And it definitely wasnt always like that..

At the moment, most of my small scale adventures just end with me getting Xv1'd by a bunch of stamina heavy armour players spamming procs on me or a bunch of magicka players running in with Eye of the Storm. Neither option really gives me any chance to fight back at all. If youre trying to tell me that the game has always been like that then Im going to have to disagree

Kutsuu

Valencer wrote: »

Kutsuu wrote: »

Valencer wrote: »

Kutsuu wrote: »

BS... The game has never had more build options than it does now. Just because you guys all lemming up behind a few streamers and use their builds does not mean there are only a few viable builds. It simply means the streamers are using a few builds and much of the player base follows their word like religion.

In any case, I guess with those rosy glasses you're forgetting about the ult cost/vampire issues, bash dmg stacking, permablocking and dodging, old streak, camo hunter, etc... The game has certainly improved in balance over time.

It's always been a spammy game and skill is primarily in the strategic category. Using LOS, knowing when to CC, abusing the strengths of your build to maximum effect, that kind thing.

"Permablocking" and perma-rolling both had counters and at least you were using active defenses to make yourself tough to kill. Ill take that over the current gearfest/zergfest any day.

You picked two things that don't bother you much and ignored the rest in order to try making a point. Along with those things comes the zero cost bat swarm, giant long duration sorc shields, magicka DKs, and of course the other things I mentioned.

It's always been a zergfest, and gear has always mattered. You can't pretend this game used to be something else when the rest of us have been playing it the whole time.

Zero cost bat swarm, bash dmg stacking and the old streak (by which I assume you mean no spam penalty whatsoever) were all fixed/nerfed relatively quickly. I dont think anyone's really saying they miss those things specifically.

Just because the early release version of this game had those specific issues doesnt mean the whole game was in a bad state.

Sure, AvA is always going to be a zergfest but that doesnt mean there can't be more or less emphasis on winning through sheer force of numbers. At the moment youre mostly just out of luck if the other alliance brings more numbers than yours and that's honestly a pretty sad state for PvP to be in. And it definitely wasnt always like that..

At the moment, most of my small scale adventures just end with me getting Xv1'd by a bunch of stamina heavy armour players spamming procs on me or a bunch of magicka players running in with Eye of the Storm. Neither option really gives me any chance to fight back at all. If youre trying to tell me that the game has always been like that then Im going to have to disagree

Well if DK is your main and you were around for the early days - you were living it large as one of the problems with the game, and probably really enjoyed crushing everything you came across. That could certainly make for a different perception on your part, I suppose. Balance is always perfect when you're on top of the totem pole.

We haven't had any major patches or content releases since 1T came out, and 1T is the cause for people being able to run multiple 5-piece proc sets together (jewelery options). There weren't complaints when people could only run 1 5-piece proc set at a time AFAIK. It took far longer than 1T has been out to see balance changes on the other OP stuff - 0 cost bat swarm was around for quite a few MONTHS. How long since 1T released? I bet we will see some changes in coming updates.

GreenSoup2HoT

Just role play. Thats what ive started to do, eso is not competetive in my opinion.

HoloYoitsu

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

Just role play. Thats what ive started to do, eso is not competetive in my opinion.

I erect the spine of nerf procs.

blimsta

Any good left about this game anymore?

Shadows look nice...

LordSlif

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

Unfortunately, ZOS will completely ignore this thread.

And then add more proc sets

QuebraRegra

LOL the proc sets, LOL, CPs!

gear and CPs > skill

BoxFoxx

I'll just keep repeating myself.

Universal stat caps and healing cooldowns in PvP.

That's all there is to it. Anyone who doesn't get that and the beauty of it, simply has a hard headed biased agenda to run the PvP game as is.

BoxFoxx

...and this is what they call "skill" in ESO PvP... this guy probably would've rage quit if he lost this fight. Nonetheless the fact that this happens is clear garbage. Fighting potatoes isn't skill and battling OP players relative to your own level doesn't constitute sucking.

https://youtu.be/FrbTXnzZjIc

a1i3nz

For real. Ever since proc sets and all that destro staff jazz I've been less interested in playing. I dealt with it for a while and even ran some of the gear/metas but at this point I'm almost entirely done with eso. I only played for pvp and just got on for the first time in a month today. Still just huge zergs of ap farmers with heavy armor, proc sets and destro ults.

Tbh this game really sucks now if you enjoy it that's cool but it's over for me

leepalmer95

Kutsuu wrote: »

BS... The game has never had more build options than it does now. Just because you guys all lemming up behind a few streamers and use their builds does not mean there are only a few viable builds. It simply means the streamers are using a few builds and much of the player base follows their word like religion.

In any case, I guess with those rosy glasses you're forgetting about the ult cost/vampire issues, bash dmg stacking, permablocking and dodging, old streak, camo hunter, etc... The game has certainly improved in balance over time.

It's always been a spammy game and skill is primarily in the strategic category. Using LOS, knowing when to CC, abusing the strengths of your build to maximum effect, that kind thing.

...

Hahahahahahahaha

Good one.

leepalmer95

BoxFoxx wrote: »

...and this is what they call "skill" in ESO PvP... this guy probably would've rage quit if he lost this fight. Nonetheless the fact that this happens is clear garbage. Fighting potatoes isn't skill and battling OP players relative to your own level doesn't constitute sucking.

https://youtu.be/FrbTXnzZjIc

A very good eso player kills absolute trash players? The point when players as bad as them are actually able to be carried by gear/ changes etc... and kill good players is the moment the game truly dies.

BoxFoxx

leepalmer95 wrote: »

BoxFoxx wrote: »

...and this is what they call "skill" in ESO PvP... this guy probably would've rage quit if he lost this fight. Nonetheless the fact that this happens is clear garbage. Fighting potatoes isn't skill and battling OP players relative to your own level doesn't constitute sucking.

https://youtu.be/FrbTXnzZjIc

A very good eso player kills absolute trash players? The point when players as bad as them are actually able to be carried by gear/ changes etc... and kill good players is the moment the game truly dies.

Ah you see but the question is... is the 'very good' player actually that, or actually just some kid who happens to have the right gear etc... then you have to ask, what is a good player? Because if a "good" player can be killed by a "trash" player on a level field, is he really good and are they really trash?

https://youtu.be/9OWx73sMIak

Lokey0024

BoxFoxx wrote: »

I'll just keep repeating myself.

Universal stat caps and healing cooldowns in PvP.

That's all there is to it. Anyone who doesn't get that and the beauty of it, simply has a hard headed biased agenda to run the PvP game as is.

@BoxFoxx basically turn pvp into arcade mode? Regen, wep/spell dmg should be the things players are in the most control of imo.

How about they actually take a look at abilities, the effects of abilities, and ways to counter abilities in real world application. Healing debuffs are a joke when the heal goes from 12k to 8k. Its a conciderable loss % wise but in practice no real abilities hit hard enough to counter a 8k heal, much less stacked healing abilities. On 90% of builds no one runs purge unless it's a templar, and why would you when you can spam thru and win.

Or unblockable/undodgeable abilities, How about marking abilities in the tooltip as this being one of the perks of the ability and giving them to all classes.



Small oversights, attention to detail. That is what's lacking imo.