DoTs, Ultimates & Bar Swapping - My Findings

Destruent

Kammakazi wrote: »

Destruent wrote: »

Kammakazi wrote: »

Destruent wrote: »

I just tested the DoT-thing with structured entropy and reflective light:

1. start on destro-bar (37.5k magicka and 2.2k spelldmg) --> cast DoT --> barswap to DW
2. start on DW-bar (42.6k magicka, 2.25k spelldmg) --> cast DoT
3. cast the dot on any bar and barswap randomly

The damage on the DW-bar was always the same, the damage on destro-bar was also always the same. It doesn't matter what i do and on which bar i cast the dot.
How did you test it?

Hmm what do you mean? Those two abilities are single-target DoTs, so what that means is that whichever bar you casted it on will continue to do damage based on that bar, regardless if you switch bars or not.

o.o

Nope, their damage change when i swap bars. If i cast my dots on destro bar and swap to DW the damage on DW is the same compared to casting them on my dw-bar.

Hmm that's weird... my damage when I cast abilities like Vampire's Bane, its damage doesn't change if I swap or not..

O_O

i will try to double check it and record a video about this.

Kammakazi

puffytheslayer wrote: »

great work a lot of really great info there, confirming a few things i suspected (wish they didnt butt LOL)

re:meteor though; doesnt it empower itself?

have you tried casting meteor without the MG passives that grant empower?

I have not but I will test it when I can.

Destruent

i just tested around a bit in wrothgar and it seems it is a little bit more complicated then what you described in OP.

The damage of single-target dots get calculated when the skill hits the enemy, regardless of the bar where you casted the skill.

I did the following (Numbers for reflective light, critical hits in brackets)
1. Cast Skill on destro-bar (no barswap): 2367 (3716)
2. Cast Skill on dw-bar (no barswap): 2689 (4222)
3. Cast Skill on destro bar, swap to DW after the first hit: 2367 (3716) --> 2478 (3890)
4. Cast skill on destro-bar, barswap before first hit: 2689 (4222)

It also seems like, that some passives (eg. dw-passive for 5% more dmg with swords) are still applied on DW bar (the increase in damage is ~5%...dunno why there is a little difference...)

Erock25

How does this work with self centered AOE dots? Anecdotally, it seems like if I cast vigor or quick cloak on my low weapon dmg / low crit bar and swap to my high weapon dmg / high crit bar, that the magnitude of the dot does not change but the crit percentage does. Anyone else have any opinions on this?

altemriel

Destruent wrote: »

i just tested around a bit in wrothgar and it seems it is a little bit more complicated then what you described in OP.

The damage of single-target dots get calculated when the skill hits the enemy, regardless of the bar where you casted the skill.

I did the following (Numbers for reflective light, critical hits in brackets)
1. Cast Skill on destro-bar (no barswap): 2367 (3716)
2. Cast Skill on dw-bar (no barswap): 2689 (4222)
3. Cast Skill on destro bar, swap to DW after the first hit: 2367 (3716) --> 2478 (3890)
4. Cast skill on destro-bar, barswap before first hit: 2689 (4222)

It also seems like, that some passives (eg. dw-passive for 5% more dmg with swords) are still applied on DW bar (the increase in damage is ~5%...dunno why there is a little difference...)

wait, this is weird, do I understand you right, that when I cast a skill on destrobar, then swap to DW bar and (if it would be like that) if my DW bar would have less bonuses than the destro bar, then the skill from the destrobar would do less damage, than if I would cast it from the destro bar and not swap to DW bar?

is this intended or a bug? should the skill not scale to the bar from which it is casted, regardless of to which bar I swap after the cast?

Destruent

altemriel wrote: »

Destruent wrote: »

i just tested around a bit in wrothgar and it seems it is a little bit more complicated then what you described in OP.

The damage of single-target dots get calculated when the skill hits the enemy, regardless of the bar where you casted the skill.

I did the following (Numbers for reflective light, critical hits in brackets)
1. Cast Skill on destro-bar (no barswap): 2367 (3716)
2. Cast Skill on dw-bar (no barswap): 2689 (4222)
3. Cast Skill on destro bar, swap to DW after the first hit: 2367 (3716) --> 2478 (3890)
4. Cast skill on destro-bar, barswap before first hit: 2689 (4222)

It also seems like, that some passives (eg. dw-passive for 5% more dmg with swords) are still applied on DW bar (the increase in damage is ~5%...dunno why there is a little difference...)

wait, this is weird, do I understand you right, that when I cast a skill on destrobar, then swap to DW bar and (if it would be like that) if my DW bar would have less bonuses than the destro bar, then the skill from the destrobar would do less damage, than if I would cast it from the destro bar and not swap to DW bar?

is this intended or a bug? should the skill not scale to the bar from which it is casted, regardless of to which bar I swap after the cast?

Only if it is a single target DoT and if you swap before it hits your enemy.

Asardes

From what I saw on my char empower does affect the first tick from a DoT skill. If I do wrecking blow before I cast flawless dawnbreaker the initial hit is stronger, but not the DoT. Same on Meteor. If I cast inner light before meteor it empower the initial hit, but not the DoTs (at least it shows like that in the tool tip) and in practice it seems to work like that. I didn't do the rigorous testing like that in other posts. I will check later today. DoTs and channeled attacks should not be empowered by design, or at least it should work only on the initial hit, not the subsequent ticks from the skill. There are probably coding oversights at work here.

moonio

Is there anything that would cause a DOT to run for half its stated time but with the same ie double damage?

Asardes

moonio wrote: »

Is there anything that would cause a DOT to run for half its stated time but with the same ie double damage?

Morphing some skills: ex. daedric curse -> velocious curse. But not actual damage modifiers like empower.

danno8

Asardes wrote: »

From what I saw on my char empower does affect the first tick from a DoT skill. If I do wrecking blow before I cast flawless dawnbreaker the initial hit is stronger, but not the DoT. Same on Meteor. If I cast inner light before meteor it empower the initial hit, but not the DoTs (at least it shows like that in the tool tip) and in practice it seems to work like that. I didn't do the rigorous testing like that in other posts. I will check later today. DoTs and channeled attacks should not be empowered by design, or at least it should work only on the initial hit, not the subsequent ticks from the skill. There are probably coding oversights at work here.

Yes, it will affect the "upfront" damage from a DoT skill. These skills are usually worded "Does x damage, then y damage over z seconds."

So it will affect "x" since "x" is not a DoT, but "y" will not be affected at all, even if you are able to "re-empower" yourself mid DoT.

And since channels have no upfront component, they are never empowered.

danno8

moonio wrote: »

Is there anything that would cause a DOT to run for half its stated time but with the same ie double damage?

That would be a cool addition to the game, especially for DK's and Templars who have a lot of DoT's and channels. Something like the Alacrity stat from SWTOR, which makes DoT's and channels tick faster.

It would be like an Empower for DoT's and channels.

Izaki

Hey sorry to kinda necro this thread 2 months later, but I was just wondering whether the Assassin's Will proc was benefitting from the stats on the bar you cast it on or the current bar you're on? After all it scales of stats like any ultimate, so I thought that it might be working similar to Meteor...?

tist

You have to re-cast assassins will. So unless you have it on both bars the damage would be calculated from the bar assassins will is fired from.

sneakymitchell

Um I tested out the single target of blood craze with dual wield with sword and board the damage does change and my weapon damage are different on both bars. The effect of a dot once u switch bars will have a new effect of that bar and looking the ability itself from both hands it's different it's either u just only tested poison ejection only or u have close same damage to both bars for some reason.

Destruent

sneakymitchell wrote: »

Um I tested out the single target of blood craze with dual wield with sword and board the damage does change and my weapon damage are different on both bars. The effect of a dot once u switch bars will have a new effect of that bar and looking the ability itself from both hands it's different it's either u just only tested poison ejection only or u have close same damage to both bars for some reason.

What was you weapon-setup? all sharpened? if so, you'll loose ~2.6k penetration on your s/b-bar which will lower your damage. The same with swords (or maces) on dw (the 5% and pen still gets calculated). You have to provide some more information to see what's exactly happening.

Rune_Relic

So the..
"while using DW weapons"
"while using 1h/s weapons"
"while using 2h weapons"
"while using resto weapons"
"while using destro weapons"
...weapon passives can all be bypassed ?

As the damage is determined at the time it takes effect...and not when the effect was cast.
So as long as I swap weapons before the effect is applied, I can apply any (current) weapon passives I like ?
Is this what we are saying ?

@ZOS_GinaBruno @Wrobel @ZOS_RichLambert

Destruent

Rune_Relic wrote: »

So the..
"while using DW weapons"
"while using 1h/s weapons"
"while using 2h weapons"
"while using resto weapons"
"while using destro weapons"
...weapon passives can all be bypassed ?

As the damage is determined at the time it takes effect...and not when the effect was cast.
So as long as I swap weapons before the effect is applied, I can apply any (current) weapon passives I like ?
Is this what we are saying ?

@ZOS_GinaBruno @Wrobel @ZOS_RichLambert

Yes. bc such passive will give you a bonus to your overall character stats including "damage done" (which is applied after spelldmg/magicka/critdmg). But this is like this since ages and people are using this since forever. Yet noone has complained about it. It's also exactly what the tooltip is stating.

For example dw-swords: Increases your damage done by 5%.
Why should this passive not increase all damage done just bc the passive wasn't active when you activated the skill?
You will also loose this damage agin, if you swap back to your non-dw-bar.