Overload In PVP

SonOfSune

I had an interesting discussion with a player yesterday in IC. He was saying that I should not use Overload in PvP and that "Good" players don't use it because it is OP. I found it to be an odd statement since it seems that players use the best skills available to them whenever possible *cough* *wrecking blow spam*.... excuse me something was in my throat.

Just wanted to get some feedback/thoughts from may fellow players on this conversation and Overload in PvP.

Thanks

Sandman929

Overload is perfectly valid in book. It hits hard though.

texassob

even stam sorcs use it.....dont see the issue

Ahzek

Overload is not OP, its cheese.
Its very high damage on a very telegraphed and slow projectile. Easy to play around if when you know its comming, but it can easily rek a 1vX if done right. Quite similar to RD when you think of it.

Sandman929

It's as cheese as Viper/Velidreth, but it's not broken.

Lexxypwns

Its not cheese at all, its the only reflect-able ultimate in the game. It doesn't hit THAT hard and it takes a sorc off their main bars, it can be dangerous but its hard countered by situational awareness and skilled play. You won't hit anyone with overload that knows you're trying to overload them, period. Its great for ganking unaware players, but does less damage than many stam options that don't require ultimate and don't restrict your ability to instantly weapon swap.

Pandorii

If I ran into a Sorc using Overload on me, I'd just shield up until he/she wasted all his/her ultimate. This is why I wouldn't use overload in PvP. Unless the person is really oblivious of his/her surroundings, it's really easy to counter. (Note: I haven't been in PvP since DB when magicka types became obsolete.)

Cathexis

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Its not cheese at all, its the only reflect-able ultimate in the game. It doesn't hit THAT hard and it takes a sorc off their main bars, it can be dangerous but its hard countered by situational awareness and skilled play. You won't hit anyone with overload that knows you're trying to overload them, period. Its great for ganking unaware players, but does less damage than many stam options that don't require ultimate and don't restrict your ability to instantly weapon swap.

Agree IMO best 3 uses:
-Utility Bar
-Stealth Nuke
-Group range play (resto heavy/rapid regen/bloodspawn and then just rotate between healing/overload spam)

Stoopid_Nwah

If anything I'm impressed by sorcs who can pull off overload in PVP lol...the travel time, the reflects, major evasion, and the lag makes it super clunky and not always worth it imo.

Sandman929

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Its not cheese at all, its the only reflect-able ultimate in the game. It doesn't hit THAT hard and it takes a sorc off their main bars, it can be dangerous but its hard countered by situational awareness and skilled play. You won't hit anyone with overload that knows you're trying to overload them, period. Its great for ganking unaware players, but does less damage than many stam options that don't require ultimate and don't restrict your ability to instantly weapon swap.

You're right, it doesn't really belong in the cheese category with V&V.

leepalmer95

Sandman929 wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Its not cheese at all, its the only reflect-able ultimate in the game. It doesn't hit THAT hard and it takes a sorc off their main bars, it can be dangerous but its hard countered by situational awareness and skilled play. You won't hit anyone with overload that knows you're trying to overload them, period. Its great for ganking unaware players, but does less damage than many stam options that don't require ultimate and don't restrict your ability to instantly weapon swap.

You're right, it doesn't really belong in the cheese category with V&V.

I think it does, throwing stupidly hitting light attacks for 15 ult per cast...

It's so annoying when you've got a few people on you, all it takes is one to hit you for like 12k.

Honestly i think the fact overload lets you have another bar is enough for a ultimate.

Lexxypwns

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Sandman929 wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Its not cheese at all, its the only reflect-able ultimate in the game. It doesn't hit THAT hard and it takes a sorc off their main bars, it can be dangerous but its hard countered by situational awareness and skilled play. You won't hit anyone with overload that knows you're trying to overload them, period. Its great for ganking unaware players, but does less damage than many stam options that don't require ultimate and don't restrict your ability to instantly weapon swap.

You're right, it doesn't really belong in the cheese category with V&V.

I think it does, throwing stupidly hitting light attacks for 15 ult per cast...

It's so annoying when you've got a few people on you, all it takes is one to hit you for like 12k.

Honestly i think the fact overload lets you have another bar is enough for a ultimate.

This is functionally all overload does in pvp if your opponent isn't getting ganked or totally brain dead. Also, if you're taking 12k overloads its time to respec those CP or add more impen, have you tried using abilities that grant you major ward, dodge rolling, reflecting, blocking, etc?

I recommend my usual cheese test to you: Does killing someone with this ability feel skillful and rewarding or does it feel like they had no chance? If the former then its not cheese, if the latter then it is cheese.

Sandman929

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Sandman929 wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Its not cheese at all, its the only reflect-able ultimate in the game. It doesn't hit THAT hard and it takes a sorc off their main bars, it can be dangerous but its hard countered by situational awareness and skilled play. You won't hit anyone with overload that knows you're trying to overload them, period. Its great for ganking unaware players, but does less damage than many stam options that don't require ultimate and don't restrict your ability to instantly weapon swap.

You're right, it doesn't really belong in the cheese category with V&V.

I think it does, throwing stupidly hitting light attacks for 15 ult per cast...

It's so annoying when you've got a few people on you, all it takes is one to hit you for like 12k.

Honestly i think the fact overload lets you have another bar is enough for a ultimate.

That's a fair point. Maybe it's just the rarity of anyone ever trying to kill me with it that makes it seem less cheesy.

Beardimus

Stats wise it sounds impressive, to anyone that runs it and sees how many are reflected, how many miss, and the fact that you save your Ultimate 5+ times longer to use it effectively, there's alot of down sides.

Lexxypwns

Beardimus wrote: »

Stats wise it sounds impressive, to anyone that runs it and sees how many are reflected, how many miss, and the fact that you save your Ultimate 5+ times longer to use it effectively, there's alot of down sides.

I'm also left feeling like I failed, like its my fault, if I die to overload, many other cheese builds don't leave me feeling that way.

SonOfSune

I personally use it as a high risk high reward ultimate, since it locks your bars. Overload by itself can be countered fairly easily like others have stated with dodge rolls and the like, but when used in combination with hard and soft CC's like rune prison and mine field it is not hard to catch opponents off guard.

I personally do not find it any more "Cheesy" than many other skills in the game (though I may be a bit bias), since there are some straight forward counters and weakness to the tactic.

I.E. tunnel vision. As a magsorc you need to always be aware of your shield status and spamming Overload can make you very vulnerable to counterattack since the animation (which cannot be canceled though it is a light attack) sometimes makes you unable to apply your shields.

Example: I faced a sorc spamming Overload at me... the first one hit and was absorbed by my shield. The second hit blasted through my remaining shield and did some damage to me. Sensing blood he continued to try to spam the attack and failed to notice I had cursed him. I dodge rolled the 3rd attack, Streaked through him, stunning him and caused the 4th attack to miss and procing crystal frag which hit him in the back while he was trying to CC break and my curse exploded to finish him.

The moral of the story there is that because he was so all in on Overload he did not purge my curse or re-apply his shields which allowed me to evade 2 of his overload attacks and burst him down. So I feel it does take some skill and timing to be used well.

The-Baconator

Lexxypwns wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Sandman929 wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Its not cheese at all, its the only reflect-able ultimate in the game. It doesn't hit THAT hard and it takes a sorc off their main bars, it can be dangerous but its hard countered by situational awareness and skilled play. You won't hit anyone with overload that knows you're trying to overload them, period. Its great for ganking unaware players, but does less damage than many stam options that don't require ultimate and don't restrict your ability to instantly weapon swap.

You're right, it doesn't really belong in the cheese category with V&V.

I think it does, throwing stupidly hitting light attacks for 15 ult per cast...

It's so annoying when you've got a few people on you, all it takes is one to hit you for like 12k.

Honestly i think the fact overload lets you have another bar is enough for a ultimate.

This is functionally all overload does in pvp if your opponent isn't getting ganked or totally brain dead. Also, if you're taking 12k overloads its time to respec those CP or add more impen, have you tried using abilities that grant you major ward, dodge rolling, reflecting, blocking, etc?

I recommend my usual cheese test to you: Does killing someone with this ability feel skillful and rewarding or does it feel like they had no chance? If the former then its not cheese, if the latter then it is cheese.

Umm, have you been 1vX'd by someone with elegant? I've seen magicka Templars in heavy with major ward + trans up take +12k hits.

Lexxypwns

The-Baconator wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Sandman929 wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Its not cheese at all, its the only reflect-able ultimate in the game. It doesn't hit THAT hard and it takes a sorc off their main bars, it can be dangerous but its hard countered by situational awareness and skilled play. You won't hit anyone with overload that knows you're trying to overload them, period. Its great for ganking unaware players, but does less damage than many stam options that don't require ultimate and don't restrict your ability to instantly weapon swap.

You're right, it doesn't really belong in the cheese category with V&V.

I think it does, throwing stupidly hitting light attacks for 15 ult per cast...

It's so annoying when you've got a few people on you, all it takes is one to hit you for like 12k.

Honestly i think the fact overload lets you have another bar is enough for a ultimate.

This is functionally all overload does in pvp if your opponent isn't getting ganked or totally brain dead. Also, if you're taking 12k overloads its time to respec those CP or add more impen, have you tried using abilities that grant you major ward, dodge rolling, reflecting, blocking, etc?

I recommend my usual cheese test to you: Does killing someone with this ability feel skillful and rewarding or does it feel like they had no chance? If the former then its not cheese, if the latter then it is cheese.

Umm, have you been 1vX'd by someone with elegant? I've seen magicka Templars in heavy with major ward + trans up take +12k hits.

I haven't been 1vX'd in... ages

That being said, you still have to have your brain set to off to die to overload, there's too many counters. In fact, as a stamplar, I can poison injection, dodge roll, proc alchemist, DB said sorc and he's gonna die before me because of broken invulnerability windows, the fact that my main defense isn't attached to the same GCD as my offense, and crazy stam burst.

I mean, come on, there's a big obnoxious sound and super obvious animations before you get overloaded.

The-Baconator

Lexxypwns wrote: »

The-Baconator wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Sandman929 wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Its not cheese at all, its the only reflect-able ultimate in the game. It doesn't hit THAT hard and it takes a sorc off their main bars, it can be dangerous but its hard countered by situational awareness and skilled play. You won't hit anyone with overload that knows you're trying to overload them, period. Its great for ganking unaware players, but does less damage than many stam options that don't require ultimate and don't restrict your ability to instantly weapon swap.

You're right, it doesn't really belong in the cheese category with V&V.

I think it does, throwing stupidly hitting light attacks for 15 ult per cast...

It's so annoying when you've got a few people on you, all it takes is one to hit you for like 12k.

Honestly i think the fact overload lets you have another bar is enough for a ultimate.

This is functionally all overload does in pvp if your opponent isn't getting ganked or totally brain dead. Also, if you're taking 12k overloads its time to respec those CP or add more impen, have you tried using abilities that grant you major ward, dodge rolling, reflecting, blocking, etc?

I recommend my usual cheese test to you: Does killing someone with this ability feel skillful and rewarding or does it feel like they had no chance? If the former then its not cheese, if the latter then it is cheese.

Umm, have you been 1vX'd by someone with elegant? I've seen magicka Templars in heavy with major ward + trans up take +12k hits.

I haven't been 1vX'd in... ages

That being said, you still have to have your brain set to off to die to overload, there's too many counters. In fact, as a stamplar, I can poison injection, dodge roll, proc alchemist, DB said sorc and he's gonna die before me because of broken invulnerability windows, the fact that my main defense isn't attached to the same GCD as my offense, and crazy stam burst.

I mean, come on, there's a big obnoxious sound and super obvious animations before you get overloaded.

I apologize I meant to say Xv1'd. Regardless I'm not implying overload is necessarily OP, its just one of those things that are nearly hard countered by certain defense mechanics (dodge\reflect). This makes it incredibly easy to counter if your spec can regularly utilize said mechanics but ridiculously annoying if you cannot.

Stoopid_Nwah

The-Baconator wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

The-Baconator wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Sandman929 wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Its not cheese at all, its the only reflect-able ultimate in the game. It doesn't hit THAT hard and it takes a sorc off their main bars, it can be dangerous but its hard countered by situational awareness and skilled play. You won't hit anyone with overload that knows you're trying to overload them, period. Its great for ganking unaware players, but does less damage than many stam options that don't require ultimate and don't restrict your ability to instantly weapon swap.

You're right, it doesn't really belong in the cheese category with V&V.

I think it does, throwing stupidly hitting light attacks for 15 ult per cast...

It's so annoying when you've got a few people on you, all it takes is one to hit you for like 12k.

Honestly i think the fact overload lets you have another bar is enough for a ultimate.

This is functionally all overload does in pvp if your opponent isn't getting ganked or totally brain dead. Also, if you're taking 12k overloads its time to respec those CP or add more impen, have you tried using abilities that grant you major ward, dodge rolling, reflecting, blocking, etc?

I recommend my usual cheese test to you: Does killing someone with this ability feel skillful and rewarding or does it feel like they had no chance? If the former then its not cheese, if the latter then it is cheese.

Umm, have you been 1vX'd by someone with elegant? I've seen magicka Templars in heavy with major ward + trans up take +12k hits.

I haven't been 1vX'd in... ages

That being said, you still have to have your brain set to off to die to overload, there's too many counters. In fact, as a stamplar, I can poison injection, dodge roll, proc alchemist, DB said sorc and he's gonna die before me because of broken invulnerability windows, the fact that my main defense isn't attached to the same GCD as my offense, and crazy stam burst.

I mean, come on, there's a big obnoxious sound and super obvious animations before you get overloaded.

I apologize I meant to say Xv1'd. Regardless I'm not implying overload is necessarily OP, its just one of those things that are nearly hard countered by certain defense mechanics (dodge\reflect). This makes it incredibly easy to counter if your spec can regularly utilize said mechanics but ridiculously annoying if you cannot.

You mean like shuffle?

juhasman

It's powerfull but in the same time easy to counter. The best thing in overload imo is acces to 3rd skill bar.

PeggymoeXD

Don't listen to him. Please keep using overload and shoot it at me as often as possible so I can reflect it back.

Abob

I actually prefer a sorc using overload against me, its easy to avoid and counter.

Izaki

SonOfSune wrote: »

I had an interesting discussion with a player yesterday in IC. He was saying that I should not use Overload in PvP and that "Good" players don't use it because it is OP. I found it to be an odd statement since it seems that players use the best skills available to them whenever possible *cough* *wrecking blow spam*.... excuse me something was in my throat.

Just wanted to get some feedback/thoughts from may fellow players on this conversation and Overload in PvP.

Thanks

Had the same thing happen to me after I fried a stamblade who tried to gank me. He sent me a few messages about how bad at PvP I was and then I saw him come at me again with a few mates of his. It was a 1v4, so I ran a few circles around a house in IC and took them out one by one. Got more hate later on. Use Overload, its great.

CapuchinSeven

Ahzek wrote: »

Overload is not OP, its cheese.
Its very high damage on a very telegraphed and slow projectile. Easy to play around if when you know its comming, but it can easily rek a 1vX if done right. Quite similar to RD when you think of it.

I think this is a good sum up, it's like snipe. People get annoyed when they are having a little 1vX and then someone comes along and ends the fight with zero work.

Izaki

The whole point to using Overload is not spamming it though. Its like Meteor its easily countered if you don't CC your opponent before hard.

What I do: Force Pulse Spam to proc a Frag, Curse, go to Overload bar, Frag and while they're on the ground 1-2 Overloads and Endless Fury.

If you mindlessly spam Overload, then yes stop using it because its suicide.

kevlarto_ESO

As long as you are not cheating or exploiting, all the legit tools the game gives you to kill your enemy is on the table.

I laughed about the "Good" player part, I see high profile players spamming WB,overload etc etc, this game hate to say it is mostly about burst damage, what they call skill seems to be who has the best combo of broken armor, and the best macros to unload 5 specials in a about 1.5 seconds, with animation canceling, and the best tuned Cheat Engine that is flying them under the auto ban detect, these players consider themselves good for some reason.

I play the game close to vanilla as possible, since I don't cheat or exploit, or even use animation canceling I am pretty happy with my results, I will never be number one but I never wanted to be either.

Omgwtfbbq321

I like overload! ....for my Rapids/DefensiveRune bar. I used to house my Mines on it, till I got over dying because of no access to heals.

For an Australian lagging around Cyrodiil I stare in shock when I see another Magcika Sorc bouncing around in their overload bar. For me it's basically suicide...

- It takes multiple seconds to get in/out of.
- Can get stuck in heavy attacks without even attempting to shoot the overload.
- Can't cast weapon skills in the Overload bar.
- If you enter it from your attack bar, that's 2 bar swaps before a resto heal.
- Flappy wings....
- Stam meta...

Detector

Stoopid_Nwah

Detector wrote: »

Are you showing us you can't dodge/reflect/los or that you don't run much for resistance in PVP?

Omgwtfbbq321

No different than being basically instantly [Incap -> SurpriseAttack-> finisher] from stealth. What about Bow spam to d-sync your health bar before falling over? Or maybe [Meteor -> Fossleise -> Heavy destro].

From the looks of it you were in IC, and with mobs attacking you, it can sometimes be hard to notice this stuff incoming.

There are many ways to be insta-killed if you don't run the right tankyness I don't see how Overload stands out.