Structured PvP

ŞσƦѦ

Dear ZoS. PLEASE give us some sort of structured PvP. Cyrodiil PvP is not for everyone. There are many PvPers who enjoy this game & want to continue enjoying this game (myself being one of them), but often find it hard to enjoy with the severe imbalances in faction numbers. Now before anyone comes here spewing the same rhetoric, let me clarify a few things... I am aware of everything. I know I could go to the sewers to find smaller scale PvP, I know I can gank in-between battles, take a resource and farm, build in a way that is more suited to fighting against the odds, etc etc. When the numbers are even or somewhat even, Cyrodiil PvP can be very fun. This, however, is almost never the case.

I'm not sure about others, but I do not enjoy fighting zergs all day every day zerg zerg zerg and zerg some more. This game desperately needs structured PvP like battlegrounds, arenas, etc. Though things will never be balanced in PvP, at least the amount of players you must fight will be balanced. I've heard since I started playing this game that structured PvP was coming in the future, however, it doesn't seem to be a priority. I've heard people often respond to this by saying things like "In war things aren't even or balanced and the bigger army usually wins", and to that I say: I PvP in a video game to have fun and I expect the developers of said game to create a PvP environment that is fun, not replicate a war-zone; nothing is fun about war.

I've been PvPing since EverQuest 1 around 17yrs ago. I'm a competent player, I often win against the odds, and I'm not here "complaining" because I "suck" at this game. Cyrodiil PvP can be fun for some, and at times perhaps fun for all; I personally (along with many others I have spoken with) would prefer the option to fight on a more balanced playing field. Losing based on numbers alone is not fun. I don't see how it could be fun on the winning side with 50-100+ ppl all trying their hardest to get a hit on 1 player before he dies and I know from experience that it isn't fun being that 1 player either.

Since you guys (ZoS) refuse to discourage zerging by dis-allowing players to gain credit for PvP while in a group larger than (x) size, removing AoE caps, SIGNIFICANTLY improving AP gain of solo and small group kills, etc, it would be nice to at least see another option for PvP... rather sooner than later... please make it a priority.

incite

834th thread but i support

How about an "against all odds" tick if you playing solo

Carefuls

We need dueling and battlegrounds, I can't believe we don't have that at the least.

jeedrzej

"We will be discussing arenas and battlegraunds next year"

Kas

incite wrote: »

834th thread but i support

How about an "against all odds" tick if you playing solo

i'd be raging way to much it's already too frustrating to solo def a resource against 6+ only for half your faction to show up once there are fight symbols on the map.

but maybe solo flag turn rate could be improved. really sucks that you have no change on offensive ticks if you kill the last player before the flag has turned quite a bit. simply because it takes more than a minute to turn.

that said

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Mayrael

Yeah this was my issue with pvp efectiveness as firstly I was trying to make perfect 1v1 build and 80% of the time i was fighting vs multiple enemies... So arenas yay! With the option to see others fights more yay! And something like Dredgions in Aion (you have 40min to take controll over a battleground filed with group monsters, while other team tries to do the same so you need to be good both in pve and pvp) yay yay!

Surgee

When I was playing WoW years ago, 5v5 and 3v3 arenas with ranks were the most fun thing ever. Game was balanced enough (before all the major expansions) to keep the fights pretty long and very entertaining.

This won't be the case with ESO. With the champion system, I've seen players output 30k damage per hit in pvp, one-shotting almost everything in their way. I can already see ESO 5v5....5 shuffling NB that can take out any target in a blink of an eye. Instead of enjoying arenas, you will see forums flooded with topics on how unbalanced the game is and how it forces players to play a certain class to even stand a chance.

I love the idea of structured PVP but unless ZOS will greatly change game mechanics it won't work. If you can make a build that 1 shots everything while being able to shrug off or dodge all incoming damage without much effort, then something is very wrong with the game. Structured PVP battles need to be long enough to be fun and with ESO's current state it's impossible right now.

ŞσƦѦ

Surgee wrote: »

When I was playing WoW years ago, 5v5 and 3v3 arenas with ranks were the most fun thing ever. Game was balanced enough (before all the major expansions) to keep the fights pretty long and very entertaining.

This won't be the case with ESO. With the champion system, I've seen players output 30k damage per hit in pvp, one-shotting almost everything in their way. I can already see ESO 5v5....5 shuffling NB that can take out any target in a blink of an eye. Instead of enjoying arenas, you will see forums flooded with topics on how unbalanced the game is and how it forces players to play a certain class to even stand a chance.

I love the idea of structured PVP but unless ZOS will greatly change game mechanics it won't work. If you can make a build that 1 shots everything while being able to shrug off or dodge all incoming damage without much effort, then something is very wrong with the game. Structured PVP battles need to be long enough to be fun and with ESO's current state it's impossible right now.

I like the idea of battlegrounds where there is a map with an objective (capture the flag, king of the hill, etc). There is both a solo queue and group queue. If you queue solo you are placed into a battleground on one of the teams randomly with others who queue solo (teams depending on the match could be 12, 24, etc). If you queue as a group (group of up to 4) you are placed the same way but onto a team of others who queue'd as a group. The battleground matches are around 15-30mins long and at the end you are awarded AP based on who won, and personal contribution.

That would eliminate the issues you spoke of.

Methariorn

If anyone remember an old MMORPG: Warhammer age of reckoning the PvP scenario where much fun and can be done without number inbalance (scenario don't start since all faction are full). They could affect PvP map in someway and provvide medium/small scale fight with even numbers.

WacArnold

I would like to see campaigns that are 1-100 cp 100-200 cp 200-300 cp 300-400 cp 400-501 cp, and then keep all the normal ones. Just to have a more even playing field instead of 100 cp people running into 501 cp people. That being said I have 394 cp so its not that big of a deal for me anymore, but I remember when I had 100 sum cp getting smashed by 501s that kind of sucked.

And ofc dueling areas those should have been in this game years ago.

WillhelmBlack

+7 million players to date*

Surgee

WacArnold wrote: »

I would like to see campaigns that are 1-100 cp 100-200 cp 200-300 cp 300-400 cp 400-501 cp, and then keep all the normal ones. Just to have a more even playing field instead of 100 cp people running into 501 cp people. That being said I have 394 cp so its not that big of a deal for me anymore, but I remember when I had 100 sum cp getting smashed by 501s that kind of sucked.

And ofc dueling areas those should have been in this game years ago.

This.
Gap between 1 and 500 CP is just too big.

daemonor

I'm new to eso but my 2 cents is that it would be just as not fun to lose. You have Arena 2v2 3v3 5v5 pvp, then you have battlegrounds which are like instanced pvp zones matching 10v10 15v15 or 40v40 players in World of Warcraft. But its just as not fun getting camped in your graveyard by the enemy team and destroyed by a mile.

Jade1986

Carefuls wrote: »

We need dueling and battlegrounds, I can't believe we don't have that at the least.

Only if it is battlegrounds of 8 v 8 - 16 v 16. ZoS does not need to waste time on 4 v 4 or or doubles, most unpopular gametypes in the history of mmos. Even the people that originally designed 4 v 4 arenas said they were an awful idea, and they ruined pvp.

Kushh

Couldn't agree more. I like every aspect
Of this game including cyrodill, but I definitely want some structure hopefully before it's too late

Minno

It's probably time for the player base to accept Azura star as the next competitive campaign.

exeeter702

Not sure if you are aware OP but structured battle ground and arena pvp formats are confirmed in development, for now at least. We will know more about them starting next year.

Bakven

exeeter702 wrote: »

Not sure if you are aware OP but structured battle ground and arena pvp formats are confirmed in development, for now at least. We will know more about them starting next year.

They've said battlegrounds and arenas would be coming for a while now. It's always been "farther down the line" though and we never see them

Ganj

Agreed but sadly it has been long time since i lost my hope about that.

exeeter702

Bakven wrote: »

exeeter702 wrote: »

Not sure if you are aware OP but structured battle ground and arena pvp formats are confirmed in development, for now at least. We will know more about them starting next year.

They've said battlegrounds and arenas would be coming for a while now. It's always been "farther down the line" though and we never see them

They said they were in the works and never committed to anything as far as a definitive time frame. In fact wheeler was VERY specific in making sure everyone understood that it was a long term goal and they were 100 percent committed to but not to expect it any time soon. Nothing was "delayed" or "pushed back". Frankly anyone who was legitimately suprised and upset when gina said to expect for information early next year were fools with unreasonable expectations.

This isn't some sub system like spell crafting or open world justice pvp, where the complexities far outweight the pay off in both coding and what it would acual bring to the game. Structured, instanced small scale pvp is a fundemental system that is HUGELY popular in most modern mmos. If they had any doubts about their implementation they would have never given wheeler to o.k. to reveal them as he did.

Skritha

Structured PvP requires balancing of classes though to be competitive. Is that even possible with ESO's combat and class system?

Cyrodiil is based around mass combat, where balance isn't as much of an issue (small group combat notwithstanding). It's still fun, though in an unserious way.

On balance though, I'll defer to those who have been playing longer than I have.

ŞσƦѦ

Skritha wrote: »

Structured PvP requires balancing of classes though to be competitive. Is that even possible with ESO's combat and class system?

Cyrodiil is based around mass combat, where balance isn't as much of an issue (small group combat notwithstanding). It's still fun, though in an unserious way.

On balance though, I'll defer to those who have been playing longer than I have.

It would shine a brighter light on balancing issues, yes. Allowing for both a solo and group queue into a structured pvp map such as a battlegrounds map and not mixing the two would minimize most balancing issues the same way large scale pvp does.

Stacked groups of the most unbalanced builds can fight each other in the group queue.

In the solo queue players would be placed randomly onto teams so no one would know which team will get them really unbalanced builds and the effect they could have on the match will be minimized by splitting them up.

DHale

Structured pvp will be popular for two to three weeks. I play PC na. You will face off against the best duelers and one v xers in the game get the snot beat of you. Then you will leave spend a million gold getting best gear in the game come back get killed again never to win a single match. Sign me up for that. But then it will dawn on you hey that was me on Lefty's latest video... I was the potato... Where is my Zerg at? The one v xers will be like this is boring there are no ppl to fight. In the end they will be both back in cyrodil with 10 new things to complain about.

ŞσƦѦ

DHale wrote: »

Structured pvp will be popular for two to three weeks. I play PC na. You will face off against the best duelers and one v xers in the game get the snot beat of you. Then you will leave spend a million gold getting best gear in the game come back get killed again never to win a single match. Sign me up for that. But then it will dawn on you hey that was me on Lefty's latest video... I was the potato... Where is my Zerg at? The one v xers will be like this is boring there are no ppl to fight. In the end they will be both back in cyrodil with 10 new things to complain about.

Were this true, battlegrounds would have never survived in any other game that had both battlegrounds and open world pvp (Umm... World of Warcraft?). Games like League of Legends, DOTA2, etc rank among to top games in the world and the entire game is nothing but battleground-type matches.