Can't understand the flame lash hate

AGrz5585

Everyone keeps saying it hits like a wet noodle. But my buffed tooltip on my 5l/2h magDK is as high as my stamblade's surprise attack. Both have the same penetration values as well.

Is it because most magDK run 5 heavy and don't get the same values as mine or what is it?

ToRelax

- Heavy armor if used, as you said

- no magicka based weaving unless you use a staff

- often more investment into stamina and health than other magicka classes except maybe templars.

- concealed weapon stuns out of cloak, crushing shock can be weaved and easily applied form range. flame lash heals, which is nice, but that doesn't help with it's offense.

Lokey0024

Highest im able to get mine running actual viable pvp sets is 9k. Not to bad, but i think flame lash is midigated by the DOT dmg reduction CP as well as the elemental defender CP, making it thecwet noodle.

I base this on the fact Tharmaturge and elemental expert affect the tooltip damage on flame lash. I havent had time to test but think that's why it is underperforming and a inflated stat.

I often hit for 2-3k with a 9k tooltip. On the other hand my NB hits 4-5k suprise attacks on the same people almost identical tooltip.

raasdal

Flame lash does indeed hit like a truck - the proc if immobilized actually hit harder than surprise attack.

It is not the skill - it is the low damage output in general by mag dk, as well as spell dmg mitigation.

AverageJo3Gam3r

Difference is, on a stamblade you can hit heavy attack from stealth, poison injection, ambush, fear, incap strike or surprise attack, execute.

MDK? You have to put up wings and hope to walk the gap to the your opponent, then setup a talons, flame lash, deep breath, fossilize, meteor combo.

The difference is the NB kit vs the mDK kit. Without burst heals, mobility (streak), cloak, or infinite dodge roll, mDKs have to rely on block which limits the overall kit. Flame lash should hit *harder* than surprise attack because mDK doesn't have the same options that a stamblade has.

Valencer

Surprise Attack damage is mitigated by physical resistance, which is generally lower than spell resistance in PvP (which is what flame lash is mitigated by). Even light armour users have a decent boost in spell resistance.

In addition to that, surprise attack applies Major Fracture to targets so any follow-up surprise attacks after the first one hit a bit harder too.

Mayrael

Wow, hold your horses... I didnt played on DK few months but... DK has no gap closer? Pick the chians morph that pulls you to the target - problem solved. Lash can hit like truck but you need to build toon around DD, you cant have best tankieness AND dps... Believe me that sorc or magplar build arround heavy armor also hit much much weaker than the LA users. Make choices, you wont have everything.

Sharee

Mayrael wrote: »

Wow, hold your horses... I didnt played on DK few months but... DK has no gap closer? Pick the chians morph that pulls you to the target - problem solved.

Chain is the only gap closer in the game that does not close the gap if target dodges, which in this age of shuffling, dodge rolling meta is 2 times out of every 3 tries. And that assumes you do not get "target is too high or too low" error on a perfectly flat ground, as is often the case.

Mayrael wrote: »

Lash can hit like truck but you need to build toon around DD, you cant have best tankieness AND dps... Believe me that sorc or magplar build arround heavy armor also hit much much weaker than the LA users. Make choices, you wont have everything.

Stamina build can survive under heavy focus for ages while dishing out insane damage at the same time(vigor cast anim cancelled with roll dodge + rally = full HP).
A sorc can be tanky without giving up high DPS thanks to 20K stacked shields, and a templar thanks to healing all his HP with the flick of a wrist.

mDK is the only spec that has to sacrifice damage to become tanky.

Armitas

Mayrael wrote: »

, you cant have best tankieness AND dps

Do the other classes and stam builds know this? If not someone should definitely tell them.

Moglijuana

I wish my flame lash could stun, provide major fracture, give me major ward and be able to ani cancel...oh wait.

NBrookus

Mayrael wrote: »

Wow, hold your horses... I didnt played on DK few months but... DK has no gap closer? Pick the chians morph that pulls you to the target - problem solved.

Chains is totally broken now. It will fail to work with the slightest terrain change.

Astanphaeus

The difference is that surprise attack is part of a combo opening and grants major fracture allowing the rest of the combo to do a ton of damage (particularly since nightblaes have an execute) versus flame lash basically being the end of a combo that started out with even lower damage if mDKs don't have an ult up. We're pretty much stuck with our finisher being an ultimate.

Also, mDKs are pretty much the only ones who have to trade damage for tankiness as already mentioned and explained before. And since we have the lowest mobility next to magplars, we really need that tankiness.

And I'm going to just reiterate that chains are sh** as well. It is literally the only gap closer that isn't guaranteed to gap close and very frequently doesn't. And its functionality has always been broken when it comes to things like a leaf on the ground being in the way.

Lokey0024

When you hit a vampire in pvp for 1900 dmg you die a little inside and ask why do i play this class?!

8900 tooltip in regular pvp land. 5100 tooltip in non cp land. 75 points into tharm/elemental expert. Im telling you the reason why it sucks is its being midigated by thick skinned/elemental defender CP stars.

And no real access to major breech. Thats 8% dmg.

Im not sure ZOS has the resources or desire to fix anything. Reintroduction of old item sets was too much.

It could be strong if they would fix mdk offensive passives to actually matter instead of just look good while reading them off to someone who doesnt understand......

Armitas

Lokey0024 wrote: »

Im not sure ZOS has the resources or desire to fix anything. Reintroduction of old item sets was too much.

I have given up on them. I have 0 hope, 0 faith in the combat team. I have played many MMO's and I have never been at a point where I had no faith in the competency of the combat developers. That shouldn't be surprising to them either, we are over 2 years in and they are still trying to get simple things like gap closers to work, which are standards in any other game and work on release.

Maybe it's them, maybe it's their managers, I don't know. But at this point they are just our cruel masters until something better comes along. It's a shame that they have so marred an otherwise gorgeous and wonderful game.

MalakithAlamahdi

There is really no reason to play Magicka DK. Just play a stamina one, as sad as it is, it's better in pretty much everything.

BuggeX

the Problem with The weed noodle is you first need to come in range to use it, you have 3 ways to do it.

-Use broken Chain wich fails 90% the time and consume the Magicka
-Use invasion if using s/s but then waste important Stamina for it or leap with full rss
-Fozzilize and simply walk to the enemy

Belicourt

OP, i want to thank you for inciting more talk about this as magDK needs to be fixed in general. Now that that is out of the way i disagree with you. The only way for whip to be useful that i have found is in a group ( kinda) and you have to use the shadow mundus and have about 50%~+ crit chance, then you will hit reasonably.

Burning_Talons

My flame lash in 5l and 40k mag is like 6k pretty bad as I have a cooldown to use it

xarguideb17_ESO

Every skill has a cooldown.

Armitas

xarguideb17_ESO wrote: »

Every skill has a cooldown.

I think he is referring to power lash which is commonly derived by flame lashes ability to set of balance with a 5 second cooldown.

Xvorg

Flame lash < Burning embers + force pulse

Regarding chains I've noticed that heavy attack + unrelenting grip is way better than empowering chains. If you fail to bring he guy to you, you can still be at a safe distance and connect a heavy attack.

Baconlad

BUFF LAVA WHIP!!!
I'm a magplar, running 7light currently without impen, (trying all light for a change from typical 5heavy magplar). And due to how many DKs run heavy and impen with generally low spell power/ max magick, DKs are not an issue for me (tough to kill them, but easy not to get killed by them). The main DK spam ability hit like gay guy in a lesbian bar. Soo I don't know I would like to see melee magick DKs running around using it more effectively, it would be awesome to actually fear another magick build as a templar

IxskullzxI

Mayrael wrote: »

Wow, hold your horses... I didnt played on DK few months but... DK has no gap closer? Pick the chians morph that pulls you to the target - problem solved. Lash can hit like truck but you need to build toon around DD, you cant have best tankieness AND dps... Believe me that sorc or magplar build arround heavy armor also hit much much weaker than the LA users. Make choices, you wont have everything.

You have no idea what you're talking about.