Nightblade Shadow Cloak

edwinly

Hello everybody, want to ask you if shadow cloak is usefull in pvp or not ? and when not, why ?

KenaPKK

Shadow Cloak is usefull in pvp

To call it outright "not useful" would be too much of a generalization. It is, however, buggy as hell and seldom works correctly in combat.

zuto40

Shadow Cloak is usefull in pvp

It is useful but greatly needs to be fixed

susmitds

Shadow Cloak is NOT usefull in pvp

It used to be useful when it worked.

DannyLV702

Shadow Cloak is usefull in pvp

When it works.

Master_Kas

Shadow Cloak is usefull in pvp

Good when it works.

edwinly

So thanks to everybody
when it works then i can overtake my enemy
i hope they fix this skill, it is in my eyes the most important skill for a nightblade

Strider_Roshin

Shadow Cloak is usefull in pvp

It's useful against PvEers, just like wrecking blow. I can kill bad players just as easily without cloak so I don't even bother to slot it. To me, cloak became useless when they got rid of the purge with the TG release. Haven't used it since.

Lokey0024

Shadow Cloak is usefull in pvp

It is still usefull. It has lost some utility because its not OP anymore. It really didnt make much sense how nb could cloak a wb and just stand in the same spot, or all of a sudden dissapear mid gap close. Now it can be used more skillfully imo.

mtwiggz

Shadow Cloak is usefull in pvp

Usefull when it works. Which is a complete crapshoot.

Vaoh

Shadow Cloak is usefull in pvp

Cloak is the signature skill of Nightblades.

No other class can turn invisible on demand during a fight. It always allows quick movement while hidden and overall provides huge benefits in PvP.

Sure it can be buggy, but it is really strong and fun to use.

Bakven

Shadow Cloak is usefull in pvp

It's very useful however buggy it is. Nowadays I don't use it because I felt too reliant on it.

ColoursYouHave

Shadow Cloak is usefull in pvp

If nothing else, slot it with Concealed Weapon and you can move around the battlefield very quickly while invisible.

KenaPKK

Shadow Cloak is usefull in pvp

Lokey0024 wrote: »

It is still usefull. It has lost some utility because its not OP anymore. It really didnt make much sense how nb could cloak a wb and just stand in the same spot, or all of a sudden dissapear mid gap close. Now it can be used more skillfully imo.

No. It was skillful to react quickly and force miss attacks. The nightblade would dip in and out of aggression while its opponent would attempt to keep detection on it to beat it down.

Now using it in combat achieves nothing, and nightblades are left lacking their primarily defensive mechanic (the force miss). Even wrecking blow and LIGHT ATTACKS pull us out of cloak and hit us... Why do you think nightblades have been pushed into anti-engagement play styles like proxy bombing and one shot ganking for the last few major patches?

Is that what you like nightblades to do?

Because that's what you just said.

Go play nightblade if you disagree. You'll see. I'm the only nightblade player I've seen around in a long time who actually tries to fight people face to face in melee range, and I found back in the winter that cloak is completely nonfunctional in that scenario.

Lokey0024

Shadow Cloak is usefull in pvp

KenaPKK wrote: »

Lokey0024 wrote: »

It is still usefull. It has lost some utility because its not OP anymore. It really didnt make much sense how nb could cloak a wb and just stand in the same spot, or all of a sudden dissapear mid gap close. Now it can be used more skillfully imo.

No. It was skillful to react quickly and force miss attacks. The nightblade would dip in and out of aggression while its opponent would attempt to keep detection on it to beat it down.

Now using it in combat achieves nothing, and nightblades are left lacking their primarily defensive mechanic (the force miss). Even wrecking blow and LIGHT ATTACKS pull us out of cloak and hit us... Why do you think nightblades have been pushed into anti-engagement play styles like proxy bombing and one shot ganking for the last few major patches?

Is that what you like nightblades to do?

Because that's what you just said.

Go play nightblade if you disagree. You'll see. I'm the only nightblade player I've seen around in a long time who actually tries to fight people face to face in melee range, and I found back in the winter that cloak is completely nonfunctional in that scenario.

Left lacking. Poor Nightblades!! Ill start a go fund me to pay for the scripting lessons for zos combat programmers.

Have played a NB, easymode unless its Xv1 or you fall off your horse. They have defile, maim, wards, snares, empower, hard cc and a block castable spammable main attack just on the front bar.

Ill send the red cross with a relief effort.

Edit: forgot rend on front bar

thankyourat

Shadow Cloak is usefull in pvp

.

KenaPKK wrote: »

Lokey0024 wrote: »

It is still usefull. It has lost some utility because its not OP anymore. It really didnt make much sense how nb could cloak a wb and just stand in the same spot, or all of a sudden dissapear mid gap close. Now it can be used more skillfully imo.

No. It was skillful to react quickly and force miss attacks. The nightblade would dip in and out of aggression while its opponent would attempt to keep detection on it to beat it down.

Now using it in combat achieves nothing, and nightblades are left lacking their primarily defensive mechanic (the force miss). Even wrecking blow and LIGHT ATTACKS pull us out of cloak and hit us... Why do you think nightblades have been pushed into anti-engagement play styles like proxy bombing and one shot ganking for the last few major patches?

Is that what you like nightblades to do?

Because that's what you just said.

Go play nightblade if you disagree. You'll see. I'm the only nightblade player I've seen around in a long time who actually tries to fight people face to face in melee range, and I found back in the winter that cloak is completely nonfunctional in that scenario.

Cloak being broken is really bad on magblade because we can't dodge roll. So it really was a skillful way for us to mitigate damage when outnumbered. Now it's too easy for people to just unskillfully spam gap closers at us and just spam abilities with no thought at all. You can use the shade but if someone casts a ability like wrecking blow you'll still get hit by it even if you teleport 15m behind your opponent, same way with crystal frag because abilities lock on to you.

KenaPKK

Shadow Cloak is usefull in pvp

@Lokey0024 You can state the positives of any class and make them sound op. Just don't forget their weaknesses.

Also just because you don't like a class does not mean you can justify nerfing its core class mechanic into the ground or breaking it. Do not forget that nightblade is more reliant on cloak than the other classes are on any one skill. You need to be less biased.

Lokey0024

Shadow Cloak is usefull in pvp

@KenaPKK my point is that you cant state all the things i listed in any other viable pvp build on any other class in this game. Go ahead and try, ill be amazed if you can.

And as far as core mechanics being screwed with, they gutted my dk. Wings just recently got fixed before they broke them again. I could go on but this really is a dead horse.

KenaPKK

Shadow Cloak is usefull in pvp

@Lokey0024 Standard, choking talons, harness, empowering chains, whip, and fossilize is a decent magicka DK front bar which achieves everything in your list, trading the snare for double roots, one of which can be applied at range and follows the hard cc through block, forcing a dodge roll after breaking free.

Now stop acting like a victim and learn the classes. Nightblades have the least number of survival mechanics of all classes, especially magicka, making them more reliant on each individual skill than the other classes. Break just cloak, and suddenly nightblades are struggling to fight straight up and are forced into ganking and bombing and avoiding fights.

If you're ok with that, then you're ok with nerfing a class into an imbalanced state just because you don't like them.

KenaPKK

Shadow Cloak is usefull in pvp

I'll add that I think it's harder for Templars and sorcs to achieve your list than magicka DKs too, yet they are arguably better off in PvP. Like I said, you can list a class's strengths and make anything sound op. We're discussing weaknesses right now. Very different.

juhasman

Shadow Cloak is usefull in pvp

Cloak itself is. Bugs are not.

olsborg

Shadow Cloak is NOT usefull in pvp

KenaPKK wrote: »

To call it outright "not useful" would be too much of a generalization. It is, however, buggy as hell and seldom works correctly in combat.

This.

Lokey0024

Shadow Cloak is usefull in pvp

KenaPKK wrote: »

@Lokey0024 Standard, choking talons, harness, empowering chains, whip, and fossilize is a decent magicka DK front bar which achieves everything in your list, trading the snare for double roots, one of which can be applied at range and follows the hard cc through block, forcing a dodge roll after breaking free.

Now stop acting like a victim and learn the classes. Nightblades have the least number of survival mechanics of all classes, especially magicka, making them more reliant on each individual skill than the other classes. Break just cloak, and suddenly nightblades are struggling to fight straight up and are forced into ganking and bombing and avoiding fights.

If you're ok with that, then you're ok with nerfing a class into an imbalanced state just because you don't like them.

So i didnt think i really needed to say this but the things you listed make for a horrible build. Standard? Did you really say Standard? Choking talons are physical damage. Harness is not a class ability, every thing i listed is a basic nightblade front bar, didnt include rally. Where would the damage be comming from? Whip? The 1800 max damage standard i would politely ask them to stand in?

The major thing you should have took away is that the swiss army toolkit that is a nightblade is op as fauk. People are complaining because they have to use their brains before mindlessly spamming the "main defensive tool" of the class. If you think im full of it go watch someone actually good at NB, AkA every streamer.


If they took away all the dodge roll reduction on medium armor then you could say they are taking away a major part of your survivability.

And btw, never said anything about nerfs. I have said, repeatedly, that if you want call of duty mmo you should spend a little more time balancing classes and less time churning out buggy content. As it is now there is basically 2 classes you can play competitively, templar or nightblade, because the damage/healing are balanced around these 2 classes. And these 2 classes are 90% complete using just class skills.

Lokey0024

Shadow Cloak is usefull in pvp

thankyourat wrote: »

.

KenaPKK wrote: »

Lokey0024 wrote: »

It is still usefull. It has lost some utility because its not OP anymore. It really didnt make much sense how nb could cloak a wb and just stand in the same spot, or all of a sudden dissapear mid gap close. Now it can be used more skillfully imo.

No. It was skillful to react quickly and force miss attacks. The nightblade would dip in and out of aggression while its opponent would attempt to keep detection on it to beat it down.

Now using it in combat achieves nothing, and nightblades are left lacking their primarily defensive mechanic (the force miss). Even wrecking blow and LIGHT ATTACKS pull us out of cloak and hit us... Why do you think nightblades have been pushed into anti-engagement play styles like proxy bombing and one shot ganking for the last few major patches?

Is that what you like nightblades to do?

Because that's what you just said.

Go play nightblade if you disagree. You'll see. I'm the only nightblade player I've seen around in a long time who actually tries to fight people face to face in melee range, and I found back in the winter that cloak is completely nonfunctional in that scenario.

Cloak being broken is really bad on magblade because we can't dodge roll. So it really was a skillful way for us to mitigate damage when outnumbered. Now it's too easy for people to just unskillfully spam gap closers at us and just spam abilities with no thought at all. You can use the shade but if someone casts a ability like wrecking blow you'll still get hit by it even if you teleport 15m behind your opponent, same way with crystal frag because abilities lock on to you.

This is the crappy part. If you ask kena he would tell you to slot a shield for reflect to counter frags. But yes, mag nb did get boned because of this. But in return they have shadow image/harness magika, i have fought the mag blades and unless you glass cannon your sorc/dk build they cant be killed.

KenaPKK

Shadow Cloak is usefull in pvp

@Lokey0024 You said I couldn't do it. You were wrong. Shoo. Only reason I said harness was because you included wards in your nightblade list -- unless we're front barring resto staves? mDK and mageblade have access to the same wards aside from igneous. Don't say they're op on us but useless on you.

Then you complained about stam dodge rolling and shuffle. Irrelevant.

And you said that Templar class abilities and passives are complete and on par with nightblade, and implied that DK and sorc aren't. Lol Templars have more buggy abilities and useless passives than anyone, and stam DK and magicka sorc are doing fine in PvP. Heck, mDK has a couple of the best designed abilities and passives in the game too.

Shade is about as good of a defensive mechanic as igneous shield, but it's supposed to be our second big defensive mechanic -- our streak or breath of life or wings. It's useful, but it just doesn't compare. And there you called harness op on nightblade but useless on mDK for a second time. Sup with that?

And mDK has plenty of tools and damage to kill a mageblade. It's a fairer fight than you give it credit for. If you're struggling, stop victimizing and feeling sorry for yourself and look to improve your build or mechanics.

You're just too biased and emotional. Can't have a constructive conversation with you. Sorry I tried.

Lokey0024

Shadow Cloak is usefull in pvp

KenaPKK wrote: »

@Lokey0024 You said I couldn't do it. You were wrong. Shoo. Only reason I said harness was because you included wards in your nightblade list -- unless we're front barring resto staves? mDK and mageblade have access to the same wards aside from igneous. Don't say they're op on us but useless on you.

Then you complained about stam dodge rolling and shuffle. Irrelevant.

And you said that Templar class abilities and passives are complete and on par with nightblade, and implied that DK and sorc aren't. Lol Templars have more buggy abilities and useless passives than anyone, and stam DK and magicka sorc are doing fine in PvP. Heck, mDK has a couple of the best designed abilities and passives in the game too.

Shade is about as good of a defensive mechanic as igneous shield, but it's supposed to be our second big defensive mechanic -- our streak or breath of life or wings. It's useful, but it just doesn't compare. And there you a second time. Sup with that?

And mDK has plenty of tools and damage to kill a mageblade. It's a fairer fight than you give it credit for. If you're struggling, stop victimizing and feeling sorry for yourself and look to improve your build or mechanics.

You're just too biased and emotional. Can't have a constructive conversation with you. Sorry I tried.

The real question is do you really believe half of this? Emotional? Biased? I just spent the last 3 hours playing my NB in Scourge and its like night and day easy mode. Im not saying this because i feel anything, its what ive observed. Im not sure what conversation you surmised would come from you saying "geez every class can make a super op build using any class abilities" and fail to do so yet claim you did and tell me in just emotional?

I wouldnt be surprised if the "bug" was intentional.

Wards that i meant are armor/spell resist buffs btw.

KenaPKK

Shadow Cloak is usefull in pvp

I never said that, and I don't see where in any of my statements you could have gotten that from.

I wouldn't be surprised if the bug is intentional either, especially if some butthurt nightblade hater like you is doing the programming. Doesn't make it right or balanced though.

Then sub in volatile armor or something. Doesn't make a difference.

thankyourat

Shadow Cloak is usefull in pvp

Lokey0024 wrote: »

KenaPKK wrote: »

@Lokey0024 You said I couldn't do it. You were wrong. Shoo. Only reason I said harness was because you included wards in your nightblade list -- unless we're front barring resto staves? mDK and mageblade have access to the same wards aside from igneous. Don't say they're op on us but useless on you.

Then you complained about stam dodge rolling and shuffle. Irrelevant.

And you said that Templar class abilities and passives are complete and on par with nightblade, and implied that DK and sorc aren't. Lol Templars have more buggy abilities and useless passives than anyone, and stam DK and magicka sorc are doing fine in PvP. Heck, mDK has a couple of the best designed abilities and passives in the game too.

Shade is about as good of a defensive mechanic as igneous shield, but it's supposed to be our second big defensive mechanic -- our streak or breath of life or wings. It's useful, but it just doesn't compare. And there you a second time. Sup with that?

And mDK has plenty of tools and damage to kill a mageblade. It's a fairer fight than you give it credit for. If you're struggling, stop victimizing and feeling sorry for yourself and look to improve your build or mechanics.

You're just too biased and emotional. Can't have a constructive conversation with you. Sorry I tried.

The real question is do you really believe half of this? Emotional? Biased? I just spent the last 3 hours playing my NB in Scourge and its like night and day easy mode. Im not saying this because i feel anything, its what ive observed. Im not sure what conversation you surmised would come from you saying "geez every class can make a super op build using any class abilities" and fail to do so yet claim you did and tell me in just emotional?

I wouldnt be surprised if the "bug" was intentional.

Wards that i meant are armor/spell resist buffs btw.

Were you playing magblade or stamblade? yes stamblade is a lot better than mag dk but stam dk is just as good as stamblade if not better. While magblade and mag dk are pretty close with magblade having a slight edge cause it's better for solo play. I think the night and day difference comes with just how good stamina is right now. Stamina classes are easy mode compared to magicka classes. Until magicka and stamina are balanced there's no reason to compare a stamina spec to a magicka spec

Lokey0024

Shadow Cloak is usefull in pvp

Stam dk is the 2hd skill line basically. 2 flex spots, not near the amount of passive utility of a stam blade. If you say "tanky" im done.

Stam healing is the diff. Vigor out does the entire resto tree spell list by far.


Dark Elf Stamblade. Havent.played NB for a bit so seeing the damage they can put out so fast is insane. And defile, and maim?!?

WacArnold

Shadow Cloak is usefull in pvp

Amazing for magblade, gotta really know what your doing with stamblade to make it work sometimes.

deepseamk20b14_ESO

Shadow Cloak is usefull in pvp

You need a "useful when it works". It still breaks on single target attacks all the time. Especially dizzying swing. Plus all a person has to do is see the beginning animation of cloak and use a gap closer of any kind and it breaks cloak 100% of the time. That's how I counter it atleast.