Sap Tank Theorycraft

Bakven

First I'd like to say that this isn't a typical sap tank. This one is supposed to have a bit more damage (and of course the trade off is less resistance) because I prefer actually killing rather than just sitting in a mob of players and just not dying. With that said in all the builds of sap tanks or even magicka nightblades I haven't seen one like this and so most of this build is based on my trial and error or what I believe would work best for it. It uses a destro staff and SnB. I use destro staff because it's easier for me to weave heavy and light attacks to proc assassin's will. Now to the build.

The gear is as follows:
5x Kagrenac's Hope (all light because I don't have all the undaunted passives).
3x Willpower (spell dmg and robust for a bit added stamina for break free and blocking)
1 Kena
2x Torug's (head and destro staff)
and either 2x endurance or 2x death's wind (sword and shield)

Bar 1 Destro
Swallow soul
Impale
Mass Hysteria
Structured Entropy
Merciless Resolve
Soul Harvest

Bar 2 SnB
Swallow Soul
Mirage
Sap Essence
Siphoning Attacks
Refreshing Path
Soul Tether

Champion Points: 501
Blessed - 7
Elfborn - 20
Elemental Expert - 80
Spell Erosion - 50
Thurmaturge - 10
Resistant - 50
Hardy - 70
Elemental Defender - 47
Magician - 67
Arcanist - 100

All comments and suggestions welcome

AverageJo3Gam3r

Without undaunted passives, run 2x heavy or 2x medium with 5 light. Heavy gives you more resistance + constitution passive, medium armor gives you more stamina recovery + dodge roll reduction.

KenaPKK

Lol I have been running this lately. That's my destro bar that I used in my last video, and that's a snb sap tank bar like I have been sharing with people on this forum over the last few days.

Destro sap mageblade does not need resto staff if you build properly, but you'll need a good reason to justify dropping Rapid Regen with a Maelsttom staff. Healing Ward is easier to replace. Blocking is not justification with how tanky destro mageblade gets. Blocking is unnecessary if you don't want to wade into zergs.

The justification for replacing resto with snb would be running Defensive Posture for a counter to ranged projectiles. Secret: the Absorb Magic morph is a strong heal with how high mageblade max health gets, and it still eats meteors. It basically makes you immune to ranged.

To run this build optimally, you'll want to make 3 build changes and rework your CP. First, run Annulment for your hots and Absorb Magic to heal you under. Without the shield, you will be susceptible to burst, but with it, you'll work about the same as if you cast Healing Ward. Second, run heavy armor for the added resistances and those juicy passives. You'll get bonus max health, healing taken, and spell damage -- much more useful than crit and penetration for this build. 5-1-1 is good for max stats, but I use 5 heavy 2 light for the added light armor sustain passives. Lastly, run a Torug's snb bar instead of Endurance or whatnot. You already have a Torug's head on, and 3pc Torug's is health. I don't know why you wouldn't use that. >_<

Also all impen with prismatic glyphs.

CP changes will make as much of a difference as those build changes. I've explained them in other recent threads on this forum though.

Bakven

@AverageJo3Gam3r Thanks, I'll consider and test it out.

@KenaPKK I have seen your video and definitely used it to test out different ideas for this build and I've died by you more than a few times and have seen your posts so I won't pretend to know more about magblade than you. I've tried Fasalla's and it definitely makes me tankier, but I just don't have the damage to kill anyone while running it. I don't have any maelstrom weapons nor do I have the undaunted passives, hence the all light. I do like the absorb magic idea and will add it on my SnB bar. Of course everything will be impen lol and I'm farming hakeijo to make the prismatic glyphs but until then I'm running max magicka. Do you have a suggestion on CP allocation?

KenaPKK

@Bakven you'll love Absorb Magic if you're running snb destro. It's a juicy heal and makes you essentially immune to ranged attacks. Plus everyone is using meteor, and it'll eat 'em up. Heavy snb destro is one of two of my build ideas that I don't want spreading around. >.< it's really good but never used lmao. I just reacted defensively after seeing your post.

You're going to be super squishy with all light armor...but if that's the direction you're going, you'll like Dampen Magic. Popping that big shield will give your hots time to heal you up when you're under a lot of pressure. Without it or Healing Ward, you're highly susceptible to being bursted down.

CP:
100 regen
37 cost reduction
30 tumbling
100 ele expert
13 thaum
13 staff expert
41 blessed
10 resistant
12 quick recovery
1 expert defender
The rest in Hardy and ele defender according to what you're taking dmg from

Bakven

@KenaPKK Thank you kindly for the advice. I'll definitely toy around with both light and heavy armor versions of the build and see which goes better with my playstyle. I can understand not wanting some of your builds spread around and I'm not wanting to copy anyone's build but rather make it my own. But I also wanted advice from more experienced players when it comes to making something that isn't a cookie cutter build. Again, thank you for the advice

KenaPKK

Good luck!

AverageJo3Gam3r

@KenaPKK @Bakven stupid question...why a destro? I don't see any destro skills on your bar. Is it just for the medium weaving?

Curragraigue

Definitely not a tank build with hysteria on your bar. Looks like just a magicka NB build. Personally I can't live without a gap closer and cloak on my magicka NB but each to their own.

Sandman929

My magblade isn't quite a tank, but very tanky. 7 heavy; 5 Kags, 3 Willpower, 3 Torugs, 1 Kena shoulder. S&B on both bars.
29584 Mag 1716 Mag Rcv
28479 Health 703 Health Rcv
9387 Stam 1155 Stam Rcv

3443 Spell Damage (buffed and weapon enchants proc'd and going a bit higher when Wrath starts to kick in)
28% crit

30971 Spell Resist
26813 Phys Resist
1892 Crit Resist

Bar 1: S&B
Shadowy Disguise
Lotus Fan
Sap Essence
Concealed Weapon
Swallow Soul

Bar 2: S&B
Dark Shades
Invigorating Drain
Reaping Mark
Structured Entropy
Swallow Soul

Ults: Varies between Soul Tether and Veil of Blades...I love Veil as a breach filler

KenaPKK

@AverageJo3Gam3r dat weeeeeaaaave! It does mad deeps, the damage scales with magicka CP, and heavies give back magicka. The passives are strong for burst damage and sustain, and it takes advantage of the heavy armor heavy attack passive. Ranged destro + swallow soul mageblade is the most effective mageblade archetype in this meta. I have been rumning it since last summer, and now everyone is getting up on my lawn. So fuuuuuun to play too. There's no reason to use any of the destro skills though. The passives are super nice though.

@Curragraigue this is a PvP forum. A PvP tank mageblade always uses fear. It gives 3% bonus max health, gives Major Ward and Resolve buffs, momentarily relieves pressure from 3 people, and applies a damage debuff to them. Not using fear on a mageblade tank is foolish. Running Lotus and Cloak is a play style preference. I personally haven't used cloak or lotus since early last fall unless I was proxy bomb cheesing, which is seldom. Just not my style.

Bashev

KenaPKK wrote: »

@Bakven you'll love Absorb Magic if you're running snb destro. It's a juicy heal and makes you essentially immune to ranged attacks. Plus everyone is using meteor, and it'll eat 'em up. Heavy snb destro is one of two of my build ideas that I don't want spreading around. >.< it's really good but never used lmao. I just reacted defensively after seeing your post.

You're going to be super squishy with all light armor...but if that's the direction you're going, you'll like Dampen Magic. Popping that big shield will give your hots time to heal you up when you're under a lot of pressure. Without it or Healing Ward, you're highly susceptible to being bursted down.

CP:
100 regen
37 cost reduction
30 tumbling
100 ele expert
13 thaum
13 staff expert
41 blessed
10 resistant
12 quick recovery
1 expert defender
The rest in Hardy and ele defender according to what you're taking dmg from

@KenaPKK are you sure that absorb magic absorbs the meteor? Last time when I checked it didnt.

KenaPKK

@Bashev when did you test, and was it controlled? You could have absorbed another projectile or something. I hope they didn't change this... I've been offline for a month or so now with comp issues. At the time of the meteor reflect changes and for quite come time since then, though, Absorb Magic has still eaten meteors. People haven't realized this for so long... Lol don't tell!

Bakven

@AverageJo3Gam3r it's just as @KenaPKK said, it's for the dps. It's also easier for me to weave so I can proc assassin's will and go for a quick burst.

@Curragraigue I don't use cloak because I felt too reliant on it and it affected my gameplay when using my non nb alts. the Fear is to set up a quick burst when I have assassin's will proc'd. I don't use a gap closer that much mostly because I haven't found it to be very useful. Most people gap close to me, or if someone's running I have good ranged attacks as well as a ranged execute. there have been a few times where it would have come in handy, but more often than not I don't really need it.

Van_0S

[Deleted]

Bakven

Van_0S wrote: »

OP, use this build. Its the best Mag- tankblade build that I am very happy with.
http://tamrielfoundry.com/topic/invellous-magicka-nightblade-tank-guide-tg-ready/

You can slot impale for those low health stubborn bosses.

It's very interesting, but I can't tell if it's for pvp or pve?

Van_0S

[Deleted]

Curragraigue

KenaPKK wrote: »

@AverageJo3Gam3r dat weeeeeaaaave! It does mad deeps, the damage scales with magicka CP, and heavies give back magicka. The passives are strong for burst damage and sustain, and it takes advantage of the heavy armor heavy attack passive. Ranged destro + swallow soul mageblade is the most effective mageblade archetype in this meta. I have been rumning it since last summer, and now everyone is getting up on my lawn. So fuuuuuun to play too. There's no reason to use any of the destro skills though. The passives are super nice though.

@Curragraigue this is a PvP forum. A PvP tank mageblade always uses fear. It gives 3% bonus max health, gives Major Ward and Resolve buffs, momentarily relieves pressure from 3 people, and applies a damage debuff to them. Not using fear on a mageblade tank is foolish. Running Lotus and Cloak is a play style preference. I personally haven't used cloak or lotus since early last fall unless I was proxy bomb cheesing, which is seldom. Just not my style.

@KenaPKK As I said my preference re cloak and lotus fan wasn't saying it was a must for all NBs no skills are. If you are intentionally pushing people away and not drawing them in you are not tanking whether it is PvP or PvE.

KenaPKK

@Curragraigue PvP tanking is about creating disorder where PvE tanking is about creating order. In PvE, mobs come at you haphazardly, and you pull them all into a nice little ball and facetank all their damage. In PvP, enemies come at you in organized little clusters, and it is the job of a PvP tank to jump in and break up their focus and coordination. Taunts are to PvE tanks as ccs are to PvP tanks. Fear is to nightblade PvP tanks as talons is to DK PvP tanks.

KenaPKK

@Van_0S this discussion is regarding PvP builds in a PvP forum.

Curragraigue

KenaPKK wrote: »

@Curragraigue PvP tanking is about creating disorder where PvE tanking is about creating order. In PvE, mobs come at you haphazardly, and you pull them all into a nice little ball and facetank all their damage. In PvP, enemies come at you in organized little clusters, and it is the job of a PvP tank to jump in and break up their focus and coordination. Taunts are to PvE tanks as ccs are to PvP tanks. Fear is to nightblade PvP tanks as talons is to DK PvP tanks.

@KenaPKK I disagree but I understand your view. PvP tanking to me is no different than PvE you draw people in and take hits to make it easier for your group to focus fire and not get hit. So while I agree crowd control is important having enemies moving away makes it harder for your group not easier imo.

KenaPKK

@Curragraigue in my view of things a proper PvP tank will disrupt an enemy group's mobility and fracture their formation so that allies can focus part of the enemy group and wipe them a few at a time. I understand your perspective though. My attitude about it is that in PvE, things sit still, creating a ground AoE meta in which AoE caps are not terribly influential and long fights are no big deal. In PvP, you have to burst people down quickly, else they'll heal up or roll away. I like my tanks to break up the enemy group so that I can hit a portion of them at a time. AoE caps are brutal in PvP group play, so you very literally have to be careful not to bite off more than you can chew when you go for kills with AoEs.

Van_0S

KenaPKK wrote: »

@Van_0S this discussion is regarding PvP builds in a PvP forum.

Hoo ! Didn't know!
I just click recent discussion and I view all these threads !( using my phone not my lappy)

Bashev

KenaPKK wrote: »

@Bashev when did you test, and was it controlled? You could have absorbed another projectile or something. I hope they didn't change this... I've been offline for a month or so now with comp issues. At the time of the meteor reflect changes and for quite come time since then, though, Absorb Magic has still eaten meteors. People haven't realized this for so long... Lol don't tell!

@KenaPKK I tested this on PTS immediately after ZoS changed meteor to be unreflectable. It was controlled. I casted absorb magic and right after that i got the meteor.