Let's Talk about the Battle Leveling problem

Rylana

So ive been doing a little playing around with lowbie characters over the last couple of days and came across some really laughable results. Before I share them, realize just how easily abused this could be by a good player, or group of them, that really knew what they were doing. Also, props to the person that started this whole mess with me by linking me the 62k magicka sorc lowbie. Some of these results are just insanely stupid, and it makes me wonder what the point of max level chars even is anymore.

So, last night I put together a level 11 dunmer nightblade. Using just 4 piece mara, 4 piece magnus, all training mods, mage mundus, some low level arcane jewelry, and the level 10 cyro AP food, I was able to get - 2800 spell damage, 54k magicka, 30k health, 15k stam, 15k armors, 8500 spell pen, 2100 regen, and tooltipped 16500 on soul tether. I could theoretically go much higher if I actually tried to, and thats what scares me some. By level 20, when low level warlock comes available in jewelry, this toon would likely be pushing 3000 regen and 55k magicka while retaining much of the rest.

Now, those stats are way above and beyond what a v16 (champ 160, for those of us still not fully integrated into the new way) can obtain even in gold gear.

Then i took my champion points off, and saw that the stats fell very much in line with where they should be for a comparable v16. 40k magicka, 25k health, 13k stam, 1600 regen, etc.

@Wrobel

You need to consider balance here, the combination of champion + battle level is just ridiculous. Lately we have seen a slew of lowbies in cyro and I think the cat is out of the bag as to why. People are rerolling to lowbie alts to take advantage of this double dip system, and quite frankly I am starting to come around to the thinking that the two systems need to be mutually exclusive for game balance. (in other words, disable champion point allocation until a character reaches level 50)

Some may argue the lack of passives/skills unlocked at such low levels counterbalances the problem, but realistically you can put together a workable merc machine nightblade or sorc well before level 20, and a templar or DK around level 25 if you do it right. By the time youre level 40 the problem tempers itself out, but early on its pretty damn stupid honestly.

Feel free to discuss. I now see clearly why there are so many level 10-25 players running around.

NACtron

Perhaps the solution could be not allowing CP to be used in PvP until hit level 50? Or perhaps not allowing non vet players into Trueflame and Haddy.

However, as of right the amount of OP lowbie toons isn't a major problem. There is the occasional one that seems to doing a lot better then he should be against a couple CP501 players but it's not often enough to be of concern.

NACtron

_

AllPlayAndNoWork

I think that another non vet campaign should be made available and everyone should cut their teeth there before being allowed in the full scale PvP areas.

10-49 non vet
50 vet.

IxskullzxI

Well that explains a lot. The other day I ran into a level 42 character that did more damage and healed for more than I've literally ever seen from anyone else. This definitely needs attention.

Rohamad_Ali

Yes please .

Baobab_Theoldtree

In Trueflame, no emp bonus.

i have one level 48 NB Altmer toon and now level 48 armor, all impen.
I run 5 purple kagrenac, + 3 purple Magnus and 3 low level random jewelry (1 speldamage)

cp: 470
mundus: steed
regen drink

Magica: 32568 Health: 21992 Stamina: 12088
Recovery Magica: 2089 Health: 1216 Stamina: 1457

Spelldamage: 1791 Spellres:11428 Physicalres: 9719

Rylana

Baobab_Theoldtree wrote: »

In Trueflame, no emp bonus.

i have one level 48 NB Altmer toon and now level 48 armor, all impen.
I run 5 purple kagrenac, + 3 purple Magnus and 3 low level random jewelry (1 speldamage)

cp: 470
mundus: steed
regen drink

Magica: 32568 Health: 21992 Stamina: 12088
Recovery Magica: 2089 Health: 1216 Stamina: 1457

Spelldamage: 1791 Spellres:11428 Physicalres: 9719

Yeah as your level approaches 50 it becomes less apparent, but lower levels around 10-25 its ridiculous

Dreyloch

Playing a little bit of devil's advocate here. I certainly agree with what your saying Rylana, but lets also look at the downsides. That low level toon still needs to get alliance ranks for certain things like camps, pvp passives, vigor, rapids etc. It might just level itself out in regular experience before that. (odd conundrum, but just thinking out loud).

Here is the other thing. Even with a good number of skill points, they still have to level those skills into the 3..4... morph range. Those skills will lack the punch a lot of champ 160's might have just from sheer playtime and quest turn in's.

I think it needs to be adjusted if your numbers there are true. That's pretty cra cra. I also think ZoS doesn't want to scare off actual newbie players that only want to pvp, by making them have abysmal stats to compete with when they first enter Cyro at level 10.

redspecter23

When a situation comes up, even an edge case situation like this, where it's advantageous to NOT level up, you have a broken system and it needs to be addressed. There should NEVER be a situation where leveling, which you are forced to do when you hit the xp threshold, should make you less powerful, relative to a lower level version.

While it's true that most players are not min/maxing their lower level toons often right now, it is still something that players can do. It's not an exploit, but a mathematical loophole that allows such a burst in power. If it becomes more well known, you may have players re-rolling into the lowest level toons possible for pvp and cursing whenever they "accidentally" get some xp that moves them further from min/max. That's a laughable thought.

Baobab_Theoldtree

I don't believe many will build a low level monster, The time and cost is huge and the dropp of stats is huge for every level.
You must change armor all the time.

But i don't want to meet any of them.

Publius_Scipio

This has been an issue for a while now. Last night it took 4 COVENANT soldiers to take down a lvl 29 EP NB. Yes LEVEL 29.

I thought that characters that weren't lvl 50+ didn't have access to placing CP?

Xvorg

Baobab_Theoldtree wrote: »

I don't believe many will build a low level monster, The time and cost is huge and the dropp of stats is huge for every level.
You must change armor all the time.

But i don't want to meet any of them.

Actually they've been around since a while. xp received in cyro is less than the one you receive in PvE, so it takes a couple weeks (months?) to get lvl 50.

And some time ago the xp received was even less.

Don't worry about armor and those stuffs, currently low level materials are cheaper than before and the difference between level 24 armor and level 34 armor is quite small.

Baobab_Theoldtree

@Xvorg
I have taken 4 Nb, from level 10 to at least vet 3, only played solo on veteran campaign and the stats dropps fast for me.

juhasman

Rylana wrote: »

Baobab_Theoldtree wrote: »

In Trueflame, no emp bonus.

i have one level 48 NB Altmer toon and now level 48 armor, all impen.
I run 5 purple kagrenac, + 3 purple Magnus and 3 low level random jewelry (1 speldamage)

cp: 470
mundus: steed
regen drink

Magica: 32568 Health: 21992 Stamina: 12088
Recovery Magica: 2089 Health: 1216 Stamina: 1457

Spelldamage: 1791 Spellres:11428 Physicalres: 9719

Yeah as your level approaches 50 it becomes less apparent, but lower levels around 10-25 its ridiculous

It's because low lvl's 10-25 sometimes dont have acces to any survivality skills and passives so they have refund for that in stats. They dont have armor passives leveled to lower costs etc so they need high regen. on PvE those turbo maxed stats still not allows to reach dps of game end leveled characters.