Non-Gender Binary Characters

ShedsHisTail

Ebonheart1111 wrote: »

Well, I mean tech for sex reassignment. Which, like you said, will probly be available in the Barbershop/surgery lab. Going a bit further, in true hermetic magick, the hermaphrodite was the most complete form of human- both qualities of humanity merged into a complete being, but that's for another thread.

Sex reassignment has -nothing- to do with gender.

You're mixing terms again.

A person can have girl-parts and identify as male, or boy part and identify as female. Or, a male can identify as a male, get girl parts later, and still identify as male. Or, like in some cultures, there could be a whole spectrum of gender identities to choose from.

That's because GENDER IS NOT TIED TO BIOLOGY.

Your whole issue of gender neutrality is purely an RP issue.

Ebonheart1111

No, it goes to wasting the time of the development team.

Don't get me wrong, I want to be clear about this, I don't have any issue with people who identify anywhere along the gender spectrum, regardless of what is or is not hanging between their legs. Had this feature been in place at release, wouldn't have bothered me in the least.

But I still don't see how it's a good use of development resources, how it adds anything to game play, or fosters an atmosphere of inclusion to add it in later.

It will be good for business because it will make it that much closer to representing the whole of it's player base. Thing like that are considered trail blazing, and will attract alot of positive attention to a game that is already on the verge of breaking down those societal boundaries and making a statement about the world we live in.

Step by step, day by day.

Tessie

Are you really trying to speak out for the disenfranchised intersex and hermaphrodite population, or do you have some other social agenda?

You are doing a greater dis-service to the cause that you think you're trying to promote by approaching it in this manner. There are real people, with real life issues and struggles who truly face discrimination and exclusion. And when you degrade those people by comparing them to lizards or hermaphrodites so you can feel good about yourself in the name of inclusion, you are diminishing what they go through. You should be ashamed of yourself.

Ebonheart1111

ShedsHisTail wrote: »

Ebonheart1111 wrote: »

Well, I mean tech for sex reassignment. Which, like you said, will probly be available in the Barbershop/surgery lab. Going a bit further, in true hermetic magick, the hermaphrodite was the most complete form of human- both qualities of humanity merged into a complete being, but that's for another thread.

Sex reassignment has -nothing- to do with gender.

You're mixing terms again.

A person can have girl-parts and identify as male, or boy part and identify as female. Or, a male can identify as a male, get girl parts later, and still identify as male. Or, like in some cultures, there could be a whole spectrum of gender identities to choose from.

That's because GENDER IS NOT TIED TO BIOLOGY.

Your whole issue of gender neutrality is purely an RP issue.

Alright, I give in. You win.

BUT... I still think they should drop the gender restrictions of armors so female characters can wear male and vice versa. Also if I want a male argonian with boobs and a wig, it should also be possible.

ShedsHisTail

Ebonheart1111 wrote: »

No, it goes to wasting the time of the development team.

Don't get me wrong, I want to be clear about this, I don't have any issue with people who identify anywhere along the gender spectrum, regardless of what is or is not hanging between their legs. Had this feature been in place at release, wouldn't have bothered me in the least.

But I still don't see how it's a good use of development resources, how it adds anything to game play, or fosters an atmosphere of inclusion to add it in later.

It will be good for business because it will make it that much closer to representing the whole of it's player base. Thing like that are considered trail blazing, and will attract alot of positive attention to a game that is already on the verge of breaking down those societal boundaries and making a statement about the world we live in.

Step by step, day by day.

The thing is, it's already in the game.
The game includes loads of NPCs of different sexual orientations and, I imagine, gender identifications... ***, some even cross-pollinate with other races. This game is the most gender-diverse game I've ever played.

The problem isn't that the game is un-inclusive, the problem is that you're asking for something that doesn't need to be. Something which would literally cater to, maybe .05% of the population who are actual biological hermaphrodites.

A smaller number, I can promise you, than folks playing with other physical abnormalities who -aren't- crying about not having their condition represented on screen.

SleepyTroll

What the ***.

ShedsHisTail

Tessie wrote: »

Are you really trying to speak out for the disenfranchised intersex and hermaphrodite population, or do you have some other social agenda?

You are doing a greater dis-service to the cause that you think you're trying to promote by approaching it in this manner. There are real people, with real life issues and struggles who truly face discrimination and exclusion. And when you degrade those people by comparing them to lizards or hermaphrodites so you can feel good about yourself in the name of inclusion, you are diminishing what they go through. You should be ashamed of yourself.

Thank you.
Agreed.

Roechacca

Everyone has a gender. Animals and reptiles alike. If you don't have a gender then you don't have anything to not identify with, therefore the gender identity RP is no longer canon. You need a Scifi RP game if you want to avoid gender. One with Robots.

Ebonheart1111

Ok fine. But discussing things so these people dont feel invisible is a good path for the community. Also a good way to pass the time at work. This convo made my day go by quick and now im making my way back home, pace is fast, and Im Cyrodiil bound.

Also no, I am not comparing hermaphrodites to lizards... Where did you even get that?

Discussing the visibility of these people is not the same as using it for an agenda. What agenda would I possibly have to bring it up other than my general interest in advocating on their behalf.

Blasting me for bringing it up is pretty pathetic.

JD2013

Actually, if you want to go down this avenue, there's already a big gender neutral representation in game, if you care to dig into the lore.

The Daedric Princes. They have no actual gender, they appear as whatever they want to appear as. The are beyond sex and gender.

But this is, of course, just a fact. There needs to be no big hoo haa about it.

Now I am all for equality (especially as someone who is part of a minotity) however I don't go around asking for absolutely everything to be bent to fit me and who I am. Now, of course, if ZOS want to go ahead and put a gender neutral character option then so be it. That's great. It's great that The Sims are doing it.

But also remember that The Sims is a life simulation that (in its own way) represents the human race. The Elder Scrolls is far far far from the real world.

ShedsHisTail

Ebonheart1111 wrote: »

Ok fine. But discussing things so these people dont feel invisible is a good path for the community. Also a good way to pass the time at work. This convo made my day go by quick and now im making my way back home, pace is fast, and Im Cyrodiil bound.

Also no, I am not comparing hermaphrodites to lizards... Where did you even get that?

Discussing the visibility of these people is not the same as using it for an agenda. What agenda would I possibly have to bring it up other than my general interest in advocating on their behalf.

Blasting me for bringing it up is pretty pathetic.

You know why you're getting "blasted" for discussing the "visibility of these people?" It's because you don't know what you're talking about.

This is an "invisible" issue which cannot be reasonably addressed in a video game. You can't just look at a person in real life and go, "I bet they identify as [insert gender here]." And you sure as *** can't do it any better in a video game. If all you want is to be able to put your male character in female clothes; well, there are plenty of costumes which have no restrictions.

Don't know what to tell you about putting a wig on your lizard though. That's another biology issue.

Also... I read back through the thread, and it appears you're racist too. Missed that the first time.

Ebonheart1111

Wait... What? How am I a racist? This is taking a turn for the bizarre.

ShedsHisTail

Ebonheart1111 wrote: »

Wait... What? How am I a racist? This is taking a turn for the bizarre.

Ebonheart1111 wrote: »

RinOkumara wrote: »

This is the most *** post I've ever seen might have to quit the game now.

Go ahead and quit, noone will miss you. If advocating for others makes you unfomfortable maybe you should move to the middle east.

Because all middle-easterners are intolerant, amirite?

Ebonheart1111

The middle east is a cesspool of discrimation of all sorts. Try advocating the rights of transgender people over there and let me know how it goes.

ShedsHisTail

Ebonheart1111 wrote: »

The middle east is a cesspool of discrimation of all sorts. Try advocating the rights of transgender people over there and let me know how it goes.

Keep digging, yo.

Ebonheart1111

Dont even get me started on how they deal with Khajiit in the Middle East.

Roechacca

Ebonheart1111 wrote: »

Dont even get me started on how they deal with Khajiit in the Middle East.

Don't drag us into this.

ZOS_DaryaK

While this discussion is interesting, it appears to have quickly deteriorated and is being closed. Please try to keep conversations civil and constructive by avoiding personal attacks and generalizations.