Blazing Shield re-re-re-visited

Sandman929

I know ESO is making a constant push to make the Health attribute irrelevant in terms of survivability, but isn't it time to revisit Blazing Shield yet? A sorc can put on Hardened Ward and Proxy det and do exactly the same thing that Blazing Shield used to do, except they can do it with no sacrifices to DPS and their Proxy blast does damage whether they take a hit or not.
So why in Stendarr's name is Blazing Shield still completely gimped by Battle Spirit?
I'm not saying Blazing Shield should scale off magicka or stamina, I like it scaling off of Health, in fact more abilities should scale off of health (buffs, debuffs, support stuff). Health play virtually no role in PvP.
Damage output keeps getting buffed and mitigation keeps getting lumped in with the same attributes for DPS...I just don't see how this makes sense in anyone's mind.

STEVIL

Not sure i am reading this right so i will ask.

Are you comparing one slot one click blazing to two slots two clicks Ward+Det and concluding Blazing is lacking?

Sandman929

I conclude that Sorc sacrifices nothing but a slot. The skills scale off of what they need for DPS in the first place.

Sandman929

It takes a heroic investment in health to make Blazing Shield useful in PvP. Are you saying that an extra click is a similar heroic investment? Hardened Ward is a massive, and cheap, shield and Proxy Det hits like a truck whether the caster takes damage or not.
Blazing Shield is only useful if the caster is taking damage, and it's expensive as skills go, it shouldn't also be halved by Battle Spirit.

STEVIL

Uhh ok so if this is about battle spirit vs blazing should it perhaps be in the pvp combat section instead?

In a non-pvp sense I get this estimation.

Assume both high end chars have 18k health. It's frequently mentioned as min to have 20k but easier math.

Both basically mostly in mag. No major dif.

So blazing click plus proxy click for magplar sets up shield with 5400k plus 2160 if three enemies nearby.
So hardened click equal big harden for mags orc then proxy click. Sets up bigger shield.

Let's say both casters run+10% shield from CP.

That gets the blazing to like an 8k shield.

Imagine enemies do 8k damage over the full six seconds.

Blazing goes BOOM for 4k per target giving with three a bonus of 2k dps over the 6 seconds.

The sorc shield goes down with a lot of leftover points when it's 6 sec duration goes.

If enemies does enough damage to drop shield every 3 secs, then the sorc shields let's imagine holds out while the blazer recasts raising his output to two bursts in 6 sec for avg dps gain of 4k dps.

Both get the proxy dmg regardless.

So blazing shield vs three enemies is 8k protection plus abt 12k burst dmg between the three vs the hardened being much bigger protection vs no dmg gain.

Doesn't seem crazy out of whack.

Of course if higher shield is desired you could choose radiant which in this example gains 900 strength per hit (you can think of it as taking 900 of each attack though the base shield is only abt 6k) and does less damage but does it immediately. By the third hit, radiant is tougher than blazing but likely did less dmg.

May be diff in pvp but they would know that more in the pvp combat section.

Sandman929

It is different in PvP, and I didn't realize PvP combat has a different section. My bad.

Baconlad

well...i did not agree with blazing shield being affected by battle spirit back in the day...but now, it would be STUPID to make it bypass battle spirit...i mean, i reached 80k health (with warhorn and ayleid well) in cyrodil a few days ago...and the damage is INSANE. it deals 10k non crit single target, 15k+ crit. now it scales with enemies around, which means it is MUCH stronger than that when inside a full raid, this is something that when the damage is rolling in, i can spam the *** outa this shield, never take damage, and deal a STUPID amount of damage, this doesnt include the soul tree passive "shatter soul" that deals 10k crits AOE as well...blazing shield needs to stay where its at, because if they allow it to bypass battlespirit, it willget nerfed...and nerfed hard in the future...leave it alone

Sandman929

But does it make sense leaving it where it's at? Proxys can hit that hard, and there's nothing sacrificed to make them hit that hard.

Sandman929

Vicious death hits that hard, again with nothing sacrificed.

Sandman929

It just seems like there are so many supposedly anti-zerg devices now that deal insane area damage...I don't see why a squad of Templars (who've heavily invested in health to make BS work by the way) is a no-no, but a dozen Sorcs and magicka NBs with proxy is just fine.

Sandman929

I just think it needs some attention that keeps it from being completely useless in PvP without a major investment in health. If not a battle spirit change, than a blocking cost buff for being slotted or something. This is a skill that's completely controllable by an attacker, BS does nothing to ranged attackers and it does very little to melee range attackers unless the caster puts every possible point they can squeeze into max health.
And yet Vicious Death and Proxy Det are rampant, requiring no sacrifice to use to great effect.

NativeJoe

call me crazy... but why wouldn't you blazing shield people also activate proxy det?
And why are we dragging the most nerfed class into here and claiming any sort of advantage x.x

All the developers will take from this is nerf sorc to bring it in line with templars .....x.x which in itself is ridicules.

Sandman929

I do also run proxy det, but when you make a massive investment in health your stamina and magicka pools are quite small. And before anyone starts telling me to make a generic DPS Templar, I'm just experimenting with a health Templar, not looking for a YouTube cookie cutter build to dish out the most damage.

The point really is that Blazing Shield should be an effective skill in PvP. If it requires a total commitment to the ability to make it powerful, as it currently does, it just seems odd that there are so many ways to deal comparable damage with other class abilities that require no sacrifices at all.

Sandman929

I don't want Battle Spirit immunity for Blazing Shield, my own build would in fact be absolutely ridiculous just like every other BS build before the nerf. But something needs to be done to make health scaling shields worth an investment in health. I don't want them switched to Stamina or Magicka either because that just pushes the whole game further down the back and forth between all magicka or all stamina, and there's never going to be any balance while health is irrelevant.

danno8

Baconlad wrote: »

well...i did not agree with blazing shield being affected by battle spirit back in the day...but now, it would be STUPID to make it bypass battle spirit...i mean, i reached 80k health (with warhorn and ayleid well) in cyrodil a few days ago...and the damage is INSANE. it deals 10k non crit single target, 15k+ crit. now it scales with enemies around, which means it is MUCH stronger than that when inside a full raid, this is something that when the damage is rolling in, i can spam the *** outa this shield, never take damage, and deal a STUPID amount of damage, this doesnt include the soul tree passive "shatter soul" that deals 10k crits AOE as well...blazing shield needs to stay where its at, because if they allow it to bypass battlespirit, it willget nerfed...and nerfed hard in the future...leave it alone

I wonder how well that build will perform if they get hit with one of those +60% magicka cost poisons. I think it will take it harder than most.

Waffennacht

danno8 wrote: »

Baconlad wrote: »

well...i did not agree with blazing shield being affected by battle spirit back in the day...but now, it would be STUPID to make it bypass battle spirit...i mean, i reached 80k health (with warhorn and ayleid well) in cyrodil a few days ago...and the damage is INSANE. it deals 10k non crit single target, 15k+ crit. now it scales with enemies around, which means it is MUCH stronger than that when inside a full raid, this is something that when the damage is rolling in, i can spam the *** outa this shield, never take damage, and deal a STUPID amount of damage, this doesnt include the soul tree passive "shatter soul" that deals 10k crits AOE as well...blazing shield needs to stay where its at, because if they allow it to bypass battlespirit, it willget nerfed...and nerfed hard in the future...leave it alone

I wonder how well that build will perform if they get hit with one of those +60% magicka cost poisons. I think it will take it harder than most.

Just fyi, Efficient purge will be your new bff.