Stamina Nightblade Post DB - Buff, Nerf, or Wash?

Publius_Scipio

I personally don't test on PTS. I have been a stam NB since the beginning, no respecs for different metas.

With DB I have heard three different avenues that stam NB is going to go down and I would like to know what you guys here think. Some say that because stamina across the board is getting some nice tweaks, stam NB will be buffed. Others say there will be a nerf because certain keys skills are having their values decreased (i.e. ambush). Others still, have told me that because of the stam buff, but nerf to key NB skills, it will essentially be a wash and have a zero net change.

Which one of these avenues is correct?

Takes-No-Prisoner

If we look at the big picture over all, we're still in a good place--but we have more tools being handed to us for our toolbox. I haven't tested anything on PTS, however I kept up with the NB threads.

Lets look at a couple of things that were discussed in the PTS section;

1. Fighters Guild is catering to stamina, all abilities in the skill line including DawnBreaker/Morphs will be ours to do with as we please.

2. Incap Strike was changed to Disease damage when it hits the target, and got a 4.5% damage reduction. The reduction shouldn't be seen as scary though, as many NBs poking around on PTS stated its about a ~1,500 damage drop. Folks where discussing and are continuing to discuss how useful the new Stun mechanic is on it.

3. Ambush got 4.5% damage reduction too, but still grants us Empower when used and the cost will remain the same. Folks on PTS were iffy about the Cloak>Ambush>Incap strike being a little too over powered. Some folks argued that this utility should be adjusted for cost to compensate for damage loss. Some compared it to Critical Rush stating Critical Rush was the better tool while others argued Critical Rush has a minimum distance requirement to use and that its damage should possibly be nerfed.

4. Power Extraction is stamina and deals Disease damage on top of keeping its buffs for Major Brutality/Being an AoE. There was a thread in the PTS section about possibly buffing the ability to give it a smudge more utility and causing more damage.

5. I think Killers Blade was switched into Disease damage?

Feel free to correct me here for those of you that kept up with those threads.

TL:DR

We're still in a good spot, I would say slightly buffed and slightly toned down on certain abilities. Definitely viable next update. Especially with Weapon abilities, Light/Heavy attacks applying poisons to our targets. An argument could be made that the Poisons mechanic itself specifically caters to Stamina users since Poisons do not activate off of Class abilities.

Publius_Scipio

Is it worth it to keep Flawless Dawnbreaker on the bar for the damage buff while slotted. Or drop it for incapacitating strikes?

Takes-No-Prisoner

So let me show you what options you have, here are the changes from the patch notes to read at your leisure

*Taken from Patch Notes v2.4.0 Remember to use CTRL+F and type a keyword to search for words of interest quickly!

Dawnbreaker: This ability and its morphs no longer deal bonus damage to Undead and Daedra, and now deals Physical Damage instead of Magic Damage.

Dawnbreaker of Smiting (Dawnbreaker morph): In addition to the changes made to the base ability, this morph also now knocks down any enemy hit instead of only Undead and Daedra. We also reduced the duration of the knock down to 2.5 seconds from 5 seconds.

Flawless Dawnbreaker (Dawnbreaker morph): In addition to the changes made to the base ability, we reduced the amount of Weapon Damage this morph increases while slotted to 2/3/4/5% at Ranks I/II/III/IV from 5/6/7/8%.

Let me copy pasta something to explain why there was a reduction to Flawless' damage,

Slayer: Redesigned this passive ability so it now increases your Weapon Damage by 1/2/3% for each Fighters Guild ability slotted at Ranks I/II/III respectively, instead of increasing your Weapon and Spell Damage by 3/6/9% against Undead and Daedra.

The community inside of PTS seems to heavily favor the Smiting morph. Since the Knock Down effect is now applied to everyone inside the cone.

Since I forgot about Assassin's Will change, here is what they did to that since its a pretty big change. If you fancy running Grim Focus w/ Bow HA/LA to proc Scourge the burst potential will be impressive;

Nightblade

Assassination

Incapacitating Strike (Death Stroke morph): This morph now always stuns the target when it is used, regardless of the caster’s health. This morph now also deals Disease Damage instead of Magic Damage.

Killer’s Blade (Assassin’s Blade morph): This morph now deals Disease Damage instead of Magic Damage.

Lotus Fan (Teleport Strike morph): Fixed an issue where the damage over time applied by this morph was not being correctly suppressed by invisibility effects such as Shadow Cloak.

Relentless Focus (Grim Focus morph): This morph’s spectral bow proc has been renamed to “Assassin’s Scourge”, and now deals Disease Damage instead of Magic Damage.

It should be noted that Incap Strike will still be 50 ult and from what I have read it is staying that way in DB. While the sister skill Soul Harvest keeps the ult building utility when they kill a target, Stamina get the stun and the Mighty CS scaling on Incap strike.

Personally I would slot Incap Strike on the melee bar, and Dawnbreaker of Smiting on the utility 2nd bar if your running something like 2H/Bow. This ult set up is working out SWIMMINGLY for me on live right now, I also mainly PVP. It'll be even better with DB.

Publius_Scipio

You copied PASTA after the dawn breaker stuff!

I run dual wield on main bar, 2H bar solely for utility.

Lokey0024

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

Is it worth it to keep Flawless Dawnbreaker on the bar for the damage buff while slotted. Or drop it for incapacitating strikes?

I would back bar flawless or WW as buffs. Incapacitating strike is the best ult in the game now for pvp so keep it on front.

Remember the combo. Ambush>fear>incapacitating strike

Then SA or execute as needed. Dont hit from stealth because fear is op cc compaired to stealth stun.

Brrrofski

Stam Nb is going to be top dog next patch.

Ult increased by 25% (then nerfed by 4.5, but still a 20.5% buff)
Relentless buffed by 25%
Killer's Blade increased by 25%

On top of how good they already are, they're getting big buffs. Plus well fitted decreasing dodge roll costs.

Stam Nb will be absolutely fine next patch. Whoever says they're getting nerfed is insane.

Takes-No-Prisoner

I might play around with 3 or 2 pieces well-fitted and maybe rest divines or impen.

Incap Strike does have the weakness of being roll dodged out of, or dodged via Shuffle/Mirage, so yeah Fearing the target or getting them into some kind of stunned status will be essential for landing the ult on the target. ....But this is something a lot of us already know how to do. Just sayn' that our targets CERTAINLY will NOT want to get hit by this ult.


Super Ninja Edit Edition:

OP while it is not about StamNB, something that will tickle your fancy is that, they are bringing back a lot of older PvP sets. I highly recommend you check it out. Our good ole' buddies Shadow Walker, Morang Tong, Eagle Eye, and Ravager sets are being boosted to CP160!!!

Publius_Scipio

What do you guys think about 4 morkuldin and 5 hounding rage come DB patch? Still a "ok", "above average", or "great" setup?

kadar

Takes-No-Prisoner wrote: »

If we look at the big picture over all, we're still in a good place--but we have more tools being handed to us for our toolbox. I haven't tested anything on PTS, however I kept up with the NB threads.

Lets look at a couple of things that were discussed in the PTS section;

1. Fighters Guild is catering to stamina, all abilities in the skill line including DawnBreaker/Morphs will be ours to do with as we please.

2. Incap Strike was changed to Disease damage when it hits the target, and got a 4.5% damage reduction. The reduction shouldn't be seen as scary though, as many NBs poking around on PTS stated its about a ~1,500 damage drop. Folks where discussing and are continuing to discuss how useful the new Stun mechanic is on it.

3. Ambush got 4.5% damage reduction too, but still grants us Empower when used and the cost will remain the same. Folks on PTS were iffy about the Cloak>Ambush>Incap strike being a little too over powered. Some folks argued that this utility should be adjusted for cost to compensate for damage loss. Some compared it to Critical Rush stating Critical Rush was the better tool while others argued Critical Rush has a minimum distance requirement to use and that its damage should possibly be nerfed.

4. Power Extraction is stamina and deals Disease damage on top of keeping its buffs for Major Brutality/Being an AoE. There was a thread in the PTS section about possibly buffing the ability to give it a smudge more utility and causing more damage.

5. I think Killers Blade was switched into Disease damage?

Feel free to correct me here for those of you that kept up with those threads.

TL:DR

We're still in a good spot, I would say slightly buffed and slightly toned down on certain abilities. Definitely viable next update. Especially with Weapon abilities, Light/Heavy attacks applying poisons to our targets. An argument could be made that the Poisons mechanic itself specifically caters to Stamina users since Poisons do not activate off of Class abilities.

Good summary. Similar to Scipio the esteemed, I've been a Stamina NB always, and I would prefer to keep the damage of Ambush at the same value but add the same minimum distance requirement as other gap closers. It is still unique and bar bar the best gap closer because of it's "teleport" functionality. But getting Ambush spammed at melee range by more than 1 NB is taxing after awhile...
PS: on second thought, I heard that other gap closers would work over broken terrain similar to how Ambush works now?

Power Extraction doesn't necessarily need to match Steel Tornado damage to be viable. One suggestion I particularly liked was allowing it to grand Major Brutality without hitting an enemy or breaking stealth. This would make the skill more viable, follow the theme of NB strength/functionality from stealth, and reduce getting pigeon-holed into the 2H skill line just for old-faithful Rally.

Confirmed: Killers Blade will scale with Mighty.

Takes-No-Prisoner

PS: on second thought, I heard that other gap closers would work over broken terrain similar to how Ambush works now?

Yes, there are a couple of vids on you tube if you enjoy digging around for them.

was allowing it to grand Major Brutality without hitting an enemy or breaking stealth. This would make the skill more viable, follow the theme of NB strength/functionality from stealth, and reduce getting pigeon-holed into the 2H skill line just for old-faithful Rally.

That is something I agreed with as well--however using the ability in stealth IIRC brings you out of it. Some folks asked for damage increase, however when you use Drain Power / Morphs can attack a target who is in the middle of roll dodging[think Radiant Destruction only its an AoE/low damage dealer/8m range]. I played my MagNB over the weekend and tried out Sap Essence on targets roll dodging on PS4 NA PVP and it seems like it still hits them. IDK if it is stilling working like this on PTS, though I could download it and science it.

kadar

Takes-No-Prisoner wrote: »

PS: on second thought, I heard that other gap closers would work over broken terrain similar to how Ambush works now?

Yes, there are a couple of vids on you tube if you enjoy digging around for them.

was allowing it to grand Major Brutality without hitting an enemy or breaking stealth. This would make the skill more viable, follow the theme of NB strength/functionality from stealth, and reduce getting pigeon-holed into the 2H skill line just for old-faithful Rally.

That is something I agreed with as well--however using the ability in stealth IIRC brings you out of it. Some folks asked for damage increase, however when you use Drain Power / Morphs can attack a target who is in the middle of roll dodging[think Radiant Destruction only its an AoE/low damage dealer/8m range]. I played my MagNB over the weekend and tried out Sap Essence on targets roll dodging on PS4 NA PVP and it seems like it still hits them. IDK if it is stilling working like this on PTS, though I could download it and science it.

As far as I know, all AOE attacks hit through a dodge roll. I'm looking at my tooltip values right now (as much as they can be trusted... ) and Power Extraction says ~5100 dmg vs. Steel Tornado ~5400. 8m vs. 9m. Major Brutality when hitting enemies vs. an Execute. So it's really not in a terrible place imo, but I'd like to see easier access to the buff component of PE.

Jaronking

The_Outsider wrote: »

Takes-No-Prisoner wrote: »

PS: on second thought, I heard that other gap closers would work over broken terrain similar to how Ambush works now?

Yes, there are a couple of vids on you tube if you enjoy digging around for them.

was allowing it to grand Major Brutality without hitting an enemy or breaking stealth. This would make the skill more viable, follow the theme of NB strength/functionality from stealth, and reduce getting pigeon-holed into the 2H skill line just for old-faithful Rally.

That is something I agreed with as well--however using the ability in stealth IIRC brings you out of it. Some folks asked for damage increase, however when you use Drain Power / Morphs can attack a target who is in the middle of roll dodging[think Radiant Destruction only its an AoE/low damage dealer/8m range]. I played my MagNB over the weekend and tried out Sap Essence on targets roll dodging on PS4 NA PVP and it seems like it still hits them. IDK if it is stilling working like this on PTS, though I could download it and science it.

As far as I know, all AOE attacks hit through a dodge roll. I'm looking at my tooltip values right now (as much as they can be trusted... ) and Power Extraction says ~5100 dmg vs. Steel Tornado ~5400. 8m vs. 9m. Major Brutality when hitting enemies vs. an Execute. So it's really not in a terrible place imo, but I'd like to see easier access to the buff component of PE.

Some people were arguing that they should add a heal to power extraction as well or add a DOT to make it a little note viable.

Takes-No-Prisoner

A DOT would be really cool. However, there is really nothing else in the NB class tree that compliments that. I believe NB would need 'something' to help buff the DoTs-- on top of getting more access to DoT abilities. IDK about you but I have really no need to invest in the CS star for Damage over time because the damage is poop compared to DKs Class Passives/ Abilities. I mean if we compare NB DoT to DK DoT, espeically in DKs NEW Poison buffs with DB, DK will LOLS themselves to the bank and back.

There is an odd caveat to this-- Cloak, if it still suppresses DoTs when active, hard counters DKs happy fun time DoTs all day. Plus Cloak when it is activated a large sum of our NB Class passives trigger which is really the back bone of our burst damage. Soo... it might be one of those situations where we can have our cake, but can't eat it a certain way. As a StamBlade we can only eat it the Bursty way with our faces rolling around in the icing and cake mixture. We just can't use our hands to slowly and diligently each away each piece til the cake is gone.

DocFrost72

Fellow stamblade. We got a few key tweaks that work out to be buffs, but only as strong as your CP.

The biggest (although nondirect) buff is the change to camo hunter. It no longer pros a massive chunk of damage from stealth, but gives some bonus damage for x seconds. That means Stamblade vamps like myself are in a much, much better spot.

Publius_Scipio

DocFrost72 wrote: »

Fellow stamblade. We got a few key tweaks that work out to be buffs, but only as strong as your CP.

The biggest (although nondirect) buff is the change to camo hunter. It no longer pros a massive chunk of damage from stealth, but gives some bonus damage for x seconds. That means Stamblade vamps like myself are in a much, much better spot.

But also means that stam nb will be dropping camo off their bars. Essentially no one will use camp anymore. Which is good, I can now slot an execute like killers blade or something else.

But are you worried about losing the camp hunter slotted dmg buff?

DocFrost72

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

DocFrost72 wrote: »

Fellow stamblade. We got a few key tweaks that work out to be buffs, but only as strong as your CP.

The biggest (although nondirect) buff is the change to camo hunter. It no longer pros a massive chunk of damage from stealth, but gives some bonus damage for x seconds. That means Stamblade vamps like myself are in a much, much better spot.

But also means that stam nb will be dropping camp off their bars. Essentially no one will use camp anymore. Which is good, I can now slot an execute like killers blade or something else.

But are you worried about losing the camp hunter slotted dmg buff?

To be honest, not really. So few times it actually came in handy, I never really used it. And as for the 3 % damage buff I'd get from it? Not worth it to not have something more useful. I took piercing mark off my bar to try it out, and meh to the effectiveness. Much, much more fun to be able to pin down anyone without an invis pot and breach armor for my snipes than to hit the 1/100 people that actually go vamp and don't use stealth.

Besides, nothing rustle my Jimmie more than a dual wield heavy attack killing me, and the *** not coming out of stealth (because of dual wield idiocy).

Publius_Scipio

DocFrost72 wrote: »

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

DocFrost72 wrote: »

Fellow stamblade. We got a few key tweaks that work out to be buffs, but only as strong as your CP.

The biggest (although nondirect) buff is the change to camo hunter. It no longer pros a massive chunk of damage from stealth, but gives some bonus damage for x seconds. That means Stamblade vamps like myself are in a much, much better spot.

But also means that stam nb will be dropping camp off their bars. Essentially no one will use camp anymore. Which is good, I can now slot an execute like killers blade or something else.

But are you worried about losing the camp hunter slotted dmg buff?

To be honest, not really. So few times it actually came in handy, I never really used it. And as for the 3 % damage buff I'd get from it? Not worth it to not have something more useful. I took piercing mark off my bar to try it out, and meh to the effectiveness. Much, much more fun to be able to pin down anyone without an invis pot and breach armor for my snipes than to hit the 1/100 people that actually go vamp and don't use stealth.

Besides, nothing rustle my Jimmie more than a dual wield heavy attack killing me, and the *** not coming out of stealth (because of dual wield idiocy).

I'm thinking about the effect come DB. Right now I have a damage buff simply for slotting camo and flawless dawnbreaker. With the new patch, drop both, we will actually be hitting slightly less off the bat. Unless you know we make it up somewhere else?

DocFrost72

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

DocFrost72 wrote: »

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

DocFrost72 wrote: »

Fellow stamblade. We got a few key tweaks that work out to be buffs, but only as strong as your CP.

The biggest (although nondirect) buff is the change to camo hunter. It no longer pros a massive chunk of damage from stealth, but gives some bonus damage for x seconds. That means Stamblade vamps like myself are in a much, much better spot.

But also means that stam nb will be dropping camp off their bars. Essentially no one will use camp anymore. Which is good, I can now slot an execute like killers blade or something else.

But are you worried about losing the camp hunter slotted dmg buff?

To be honest, not really. So few times it actually came in handy, I never really used it. And as for the 3 % damage buff I'd get from it? Not worth it to not have something more useful. I took piercing mark off my bar to try it out, and meh to the effectiveness. Much, much more fun to be able to pin down anyone without an invis pot and breach armor for my snipes than to hit the 1/100 people that actually go vamp and don't use stealth.

Besides, nothing rustle my Jimmie more than a dual wield heavy attack killing me, and the *** not coming out of stealth (because of dual wield idiocy).

I'm thinking about the effect come DB. Right now I have a damage buff simply for slotting camo and flawless dawnbreaker. With the new patch, drop both, we will actually be hitting slightly less off the bat. Unless you know we make it up somewhere else?

Oh, there's nothing stopping you from keeping them slotted (both give you 11% damage increase) but at least for my style of gameplay, I'd rather snipe, snipe, mark, poison inject. I have yet to fool around with ambush, fear, incap, but from what I understand the new incap with a 20% buff from ambush is rocking folks. Like, those three moves = dead rocking in some cases.

If you're going for ambush to incap, you have a damage boost from the abilities now scaling off poison. So even if you take off flawless AND camo (which again, no need to drop camo but for the reason I want other skills instead) you lose 11% weapon damage, but gain an insane amount from your CP scaling thanks to the abilities now being worked off disease damage.

So while I have no numbers for you, I can say if you are closer to cap on CP, dropping flawless still won't run you in the red by how hard things like incap and killer's blade (which can be used on a dw bar, btw) will hit.

The more I think in it, the more I'm eager to test it and return.

Publius_Scipio

DocFrost72 wrote: »

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

DocFrost72 wrote: »

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

DocFrost72 wrote: »

Fellow stamblade. We got a few key tweaks that work out to be buffs, but only as strong as your CP.

The biggest (although nondirect) buff is the change to camo hunter. It no longer pros a massive chunk of damage from stealth, but gives some bonus damage for x seconds. That means Stamblade vamps like myself are in a much, much better spot.

But also means that stam nb will be dropping camp off their bars. Essentially no one will use camp anymore. Which is good, I can now slot an execute like killers blade or something else.

But are you worried about losing the camp hunter slotted dmg buff?

To be honest, not really. So few times it actually came in handy, I never really used it. And as for the 3 % damage buff I'd get from it? Not worth it to not have something more useful. I took piercing mark off my bar to try it out, and meh to the effectiveness. Much, much more fun to be able to pin down anyone without an invis pot and breach armor for my snipes than to hit the 1/100 people that actually go vamp and don't use stealth.

Besides, nothing rustle my Jimmie more than a dual wield heavy attack killing me, and the *** not coming out of stealth (because of dual wield idiocy).

I'm thinking about the effect come DB. Right now I have a damage buff simply for slotting camo and flawless dawnbreaker. With the new patch, drop both, we will actually be hitting slightly less off the bat. Unless you know we make it up somewhere else?

Oh, there's nothing stopping you from keeping them slotted (both give you 11% damage increase) but at least for my style of gameplay, I'd rather snipe, snipe, mark, poison inject. I have yet to fool around with ambush, fear, incap, but from what I understand the new incap with a 20% buff from ambush is rocking folks. Like, those three moves = dead rocking in some cases.

If you're going for ambush to incap, you have a damage boost from the abilities now scaling off poison. So even if you take off flawless AND camo (which again, no need to drop camo but for the reason I want other skills instead) you lose 11% weapon damage, but gain an insane amount from your CP scaling thanks to the abilities now being worked off disease damage.

So while I have no numbers for you, I can say if you are closer to cap on CP, dropping flawless still won't run you in the red by how hard things like incap and killer's blade (which can be used on a dw bar, btw) will hit.

The more I think in it, the more I'm eager to test it and return.

I actually currently have 400 CP exact. And come DB, if I'm not mistaken, I will get a 40 CP gift (for being VR16 currently). So I'm looking at around 440 CP.

I see what your saying with the other skills now hitting harder. But current rotations with other skills (i.e. ambush, surprise attack) will be hitting less due to DB changes, then add to that the damage buff loss from dropping flawless and camo. I guess its all speculation until i see how it all feels come DB

DocFrost72

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

DocFrost72 wrote: »

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

DocFrost72 wrote: »

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

DocFrost72 wrote: »

Fellow stamblade. We got a few key tweaks that work out to be buffs, but only as strong as your CP.

The biggest (although nondirect) buff is the change to camo hunter. It no longer pros a massive chunk of damage from stealth, but gives some bonus damage for x seconds. That means Stamblade vamps like myself are in a much, much better spot.

But also means that stam nb will be dropping camp off their bars. Essentially no one will use camp anymore. Which is good, I can now slot an execute like killers blade or something else.

But are you worried about losing the camp hunter slotted dmg buff?

To be honest, not really. So few times it actually came in handy, I never really used it. And as for the 3 % damage buff I'd get from it? Not worth it to not have something more useful. I took piercing mark off my bar to try it out, and meh to the effectiveness. Much, much more fun to be able to pin down anyone without an invis pot and breach armor for my snipes than to hit the 1/100 people that actually go vamp and don't use stealth.

Besides, nothing rustle my Jimmie more than a dual wield heavy attack killing me, and the *** not coming out of stealth (because of dual wield idiocy).

I'm thinking about the effect come DB. Right now I have a damage buff simply for slotting camo and flawless dawnbreaker. With the new patch, drop both, we will actually be hitting slightly less off the bat. Unless you know we make it up somewhere else?

Oh, there's nothing stopping you from keeping them slotted (both give you 11% damage increase) but at least for my style of gameplay, I'd rather snipe, snipe, mark, poison inject. I have yet to fool around with ambush, fear, incap, but from what I understand the new incap with a 20% buff from ambush is rocking folks. Like, those three moves = dead rocking in some cases.

If you're going for ambush to incap, you have a damage boost from the abilities now scaling off poison. So even if you take off flawless AND camo (which again, no need to drop camo but for the reason I want other skills instead) you lose 11% weapon damage, but gain an insane amount from your CP scaling thanks to the abilities now being worked off disease damage.

So while I have no numbers for you, I can say if you are closer to cap on CP, dropping flawless still won't run you in the red by how hard things like incap and killer's blade (which can be used on a dw bar, btw) will hit.

The more I think in it, the more I'm eager to test it and return.

I actually currently have 400 CP exact. And come DB, if I'm not mistaken, I will get a 40 CP gift (for being VR16 currently). So I'm looking at around 440 CP.

Alrighty, I'll stop by the PTS right now and set up a test on a template to give you a solid idea of numbers for the new damage.

Publius_Scipio

DocFrost72 wrote: »

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

DocFrost72 wrote: »

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

DocFrost72 wrote: »

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

DocFrost72 wrote: »

Fellow stamblade. We got a few key tweaks that work out to be buffs, but only as strong as your CP.

The biggest (although nondirect) buff is the change to camo hunter. It no longer pros a massive chunk of damage from stealth, but gives some bonus damage for x seconds. That means Stamblade vamps like myself are in a much, much better spot.

But also means that stam nb will be dropping camp off their bars. Essentially no one will use camp anymore. Which is good, I can now slot an execute like killers blade or something else.

But are you worried about losing the camp hunter slotted dmg buff?

To be honest, not really. So few times it actually came in handy, I never really used it. And as for the 3 % damage buff I'd get from it? Not worth it to not have something more useful. I took piercing mark off my bar to try it out, and meh to the effectiveness. Much, much more fun to be able to pin down anyone without an invis pot and breach armor for my snipes than to hit the 1/100 people that actually go vamp and don't use stealth.

Besides, nothing rustle my Jimmie more than a dual wield heavy attack killing me, and the *** not coming out of stealth (because of dual wield idiocy).

I'm thinking about the effect come DB. Right now I have a damage buff simply for slotting camo and flawless dawnbreaker. With the new patch, drop both, we will actually be hitting slightly less off the bat. Unless you know we make it up somewhere else?

Oh, there's nothing stopping you from keeping them slotted (both give you 11% damage increase) but at least for my style of gameplay, I'd rather snipe, snipe, mark, poison inject. I have yet to fool around with ambush, fear, incap, but from what I understand the new incap with a 20% buff from ambush is rocking folks. Like, those three moves = dead rocking in some cases.

If you're going for ambush to incap, you have a damage boost from the abilities now scaling off poison. So even if you take off flawless AND camo (which again, no need to drop camo but for the reason I want other skills instead) you lose 11% weapon damage, but gain an insane amount from your CP scaling thanks to the abilities now being worked off disease damage.

So while I have no numbers for you, I can say if you are closer to cap on CP, dropping flawless still won't run you in the red by how hard things like incap and killer's blade (which can be used on a dw bar, btw) will hit.

The more I think in it, the more I'm eager to test it and return.

I actually currently have 400 CP exact. And come DB, if I'm not mistaken, I will get a 40 CP gift (for being VR16 currently). So I'm looking at around 440 CP.

Alrighty, I'll stop by the PTS right now and set up a test on a template to give you a solid idea of numbers for the new damage.

Lol, you don't have to do that for me. But thanks.