People have been complaining about tanking? Looks fine to me. :)

LegendaryMage

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4MtAwYd1JE

ToRelax

I think a tanky character should be able to fight back decently while "tanking" 3-4 enemies - talking about average players, if they were all good ones, there's no way to survive for long anyway.
For an actual tank to be useful, he needs to add something more to the group - be that cc, healing, damage or whatever - and most importantly, be able to tank more players than any other group member could handle. It's not as if another player would certainly die instantly against 4 opponents - he might even have a chance to kill them!

holosoul

ToRelax wrote: »

I think a tanky character should be able to fight back decently while "tanking" 3-4 enemies - talking about average players, if they were all good ones, there's no way to survive for long anyway.
For an actual tank to be useful, he needs to add something more to the group - be that cc, healing, damage or whatever - and most importantly, be able to tank more players than any other group member could handle. It's not as if another player would certainly die instantly against 4 opponents - he might even have a chance to kill them!

Translation: Tanks should be able to facetank 5 CP 500 players infinitely without having a healer, and also burst their enemies to death 1 at a time.

LegendaryMage

ToRelax wrote: »

I think a tanky character should be able to fight back decently while "tanking" 3-4 enemies - talking about average players, if they were all good ones, there's no way to survive for long anyway.
For an actual tank to be useful, he needs to add something more to the group - be that cc, healing, damage or whatever - and most importantly, be able to tank more players than any other group member could handle. It's not as if another player would certainly die instantly against 4 opponents - he might even have a chance to kill them!

These were all great players in 1vs1 so I'm pretty sure if I was with them on any other class I'd get facerolled very quickly.

I think if you want to tank in the current patch, you have to really build for it. I saw another tank dude trying to tank 2-3 people and he couldn't really last long, let alone kill any of the (very good) opposite group members. That's why I went full tank mode, so almost anything you throw at me, it's not a problem.

holosoul wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

I think a tanky character should be able to fight back decently while "tanking" 3-4 enemies - talking about average players, if they were all good ones, there's no way to survive for long anyway.
For an actual tank to be useful, he needs to add something more to the group - be that cc, healing, damage or whatever - and most importantly, be able to tank more players than any other group member could handle. It's not as if another player would certainly die instantly against 4 opponents - he might even have a chance to kill them!

Translation: Tanks should be able to facetank 5 CP 500 players infinitely without having a healer, and also burst their enemies to death 1 at a time.

haha that's not gonna happen I'm afraid

ToRelax

LegendaryMage wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

I think a tanky character should be able to fight back decently while "tanking" 3-4 enemies - talking about average players, if they were all good ones, there's no way to survive for long anyway.
For an actual tank to be useful, he needs to add something more to the group - be that cc, healing, damage or whatever - and most importantly, be able to tank more players than any other group member could handle. It's not as if another player would certainly die instantly against 4 opponents - he might even have a chance to kill them!

These were all great players in 1vs1 so I'm pretty sure if I was with them on any other class I'd get facerolled very quickly.

I think if you want to tank in the current patch, you have to really build for it. I saw another tank dude trying to tank 2-3 people and he couldn't really last long, let alone kill any of the (very good) opposite group members. That's why I went full tank mode, so almost anything you throw at me, it's not a problem.

holosoul wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

I think a tanky character should be able to fight back decently while "tanking" 3-4 enemies - talking about average players, if they were all good ones, there's no way to survive for long anyway.
For an actual tank to be useful, he needs to add something more to the group - be that cc, healing, damage or whatever - and most importantly, be able to tank more players than any other group member could handle. It's not as if another player would certainly die instantly against 4 opponents - he might even have a chance to kill them!

Translation: Tanks should be able to facetank 5 CP 500 players infinitely without having a healer, and also burst their enemies to death 1 at a time.

haha that's not gonna happen I'm afraid

Sorry Mage, but if they were good players, they didn't show it. I know Shally isn't bad, but I also saw execute spam on full health and loads of wasted ults and cc.

holosoul wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

I think a tanky character should be able to fight back decently while "tanking" 3-4 enemies - talking about average players, if they were all good ones, there's no way to survive for long anyway.
For an actual tank to be useful, he needs to add something more to the group - be that cc, healing, damage or whatever - and most importantly, be able to tank more players than any other group member could handle. It's not as if another player would certainly die instantly against 4 opponents - he might even have a chance to kill them!

Translation: Tanks should be able to facetank 5 CP 500 players infinitely without having a healer, and also burst their enemies to death 1 at a time.

I'm pretty sure I didn't say anything like that. I neither said 5, nor infinitely nor burst or even kill anyone. Not going to type it all down again though.

LegendaryMage

ToRelax wrote: »

LegendaryMage wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

I think a tanky character should be able to fight back decently while "tanking" 3-4 enemies - talking about average players, if they were all good ones, there's no way to survive for long anyway.
For an actual tank to be useful, he needs to add something more to the group - be that cc, healing, damage or whatever - and most importantly, be able to tank more players than any other group member could handle. It's not as if another player would certainly die instantly against 4 opponents - he might even have a chance to kill them!

These were all great players in 1vs1 so I'm pretty sure if I was with them on any other class I'd get facerolled very quickly.

I think if you want to tank in the current patch, you have to really build for it. I saw another tank dude trying to tank 2-3 people and he couldn't really last long, let alone kill any of the (very good) opposite group members. That's why I went full tank mode, so almost anything you throw at me, it's not a problem.

holosoul wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

I think a tanky character should be able to fight back decently while "tanking" 3-4 enemies - talking about average players, if they were all good ones, there's no way to survive for long anyway.
For an actual tank to be useful, he needs to add something more to the group - be that cc, healing, damage or whatever - and most importantly, be able to tank more players than any other group member could handle. It's not as if another player would certainly die instantly against 4 opponents - he might even have a chance to kill them!

Translation: Tanks should be able to facetank 5 CP 500 players infinitely without having a healer, and also burst their enemies to death 1 at a time.

haha that's not gonna happen I'm afraid

Sorry Mage, but if they were good players, they didn't show it. I know Shally isn't bad, but I also saw execute spam on full health and loads of wasted ults and cc.

holosoul wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

I think a tanky character should be able to fight back decently while "tanking" 3-4 enemies - talking about average players, if they were all good ones, there's no way to survive for long anyway.
For an actual tank to be useful, he needs to add something more to the group - be that cc, healing, damage or whatever - and most importantly, be able to tank more players than any other group member could handle. It's not as if another player would certainly die instantly against 4 opponents - he might even have a chance to kill them!

Translation: Tanks should be able to facetank 5 CP 500 players infinitely without having a healer, and also burst their enemies to death 1 at a time.

I'm pretty sure I didn't say anything like that. I neither said 5, nor infinitely nor burst or even kill anyone. Not going to type it all down again though.

I dueled most of them, they're very good. I think some of them were making a mistake by trying to drain stam via any attack possible, even if it's execute - just make me spend stam. But that won't work on a build with insane block cost reduction. You think tanking is not possible this patch? As in, tanking a group of players for a prolonged period of time.

ToRelax

LegendaryMage wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

LegendaryMage wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

I think a tanky character should be able to fight back decently while "tanking" 3-4 enemies - talking about average players, if they were all good ones, there's no way to survive for long anyway.
For an actual tank to be useful, he needs to add something more to the group - be that cc, healing, damage or whatever - and most importantly, be able to tank more players than any other group member could handle. It's not as if another player would certainly die instantly against 4 opponents - he might even have a chance to kill them!

These were all great players in 1vs1 so I'm pretty sure if I was with them on any other class I'd get facerolled very quickly.

I think if you want to tank in the current patch, you have to really build for it. I saw another tank dude trying to tank 2-3 people and he couldn't really last long, let alone kill any of the (very good) opposite group members. That's why I went full tank mode, so almost anything you throw at me, it's not a problem.

holosoul wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

I think a tanky character should be able to fight back decently while "tanking" 3-4 enemies - talking about average players, if they were all good ones, there's no way to survive for long anyway.
For an actual tank to be useful, he needs to add something more to the group - be that cc, healing, damage or whatever - and most importantly, be able to tank more players than any other group member could handle. It's not as if another player would certainly die instantly against 4 opponents - he might even have a chance to kill them!

Translation: Tanks should be able to facetank 5 CP 500 players infinitely without having a healer, and also burst their enemies to death 1 at a time.

haha that's not gonna happen I'm afraid

Sorry Mage, but if they were good players, they didn't show it. I know Shally isn't bad, but I also saw execute spam on full health and loads of wasted ults and cc.

holosoul wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

I think a tanky character should be able to fight back decently while "tanking" 3-4 enemies - talking about average players, if they were all good ones, there's no way to survive for long anyway.
For an actual tank to be useful, he needs to add something more to the group - be that cc, healing, damage or whatever - and most importantly, be able to tank more players than any other group member could handle. It's not as if another player would certainly die instantly against 4 opponents - he might even have a chance to kill them!

Translation: Tanks should be able to facetank 5 CP 500 players infinitely without having a healer, and also burst their enemies to death 1 at a time.

I'm pretty sure I didn't say anything like that. I neither said 5, nor infinitely nor burst or even kill anyone. Not going to type it all down again though.

I dueled most of them, they're very good. I think some of them were making a mistake by trying to drain stam via any attack possible, even if it's execute - just make me spend stam. But that won't work on a build with insane block cost reduction. You think tanking is not possible this patch? As in, tanking a group of players for a prolonged period of time.

I know a player can tank a couple people by giving up literally any other support for his group - and even then, you don't really fight more players than if you invested into more cc, mobility or healing. You can survive more that way when you let everyone walk up on you and spam his favorite damage skill in the first place, but what's the point? The most use we could get out of it was to make enemies who focus that tank stack up on him since he won't try to move in order to survive, like his teammates.
In contrast, pre 1.6 our tank would be very helpful with CCs and Banners. And a healer tank would always heal us, of course.

holosoul

@ToRelax
I love how you're in the sorc thread pretending to be a sorc
but here we see you're really a DK

Animus-ESO

ToRelax wrote: »

LegendaryMage wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

I think a tanky character should be able to fight back decently while "tanking" 3-4 enemies - talking about average players, if they were all good ones, there's no way to survive for long anyway.
For an actual tank to be useful, he needs to add something more to the group - be that cc, healing, damage or whatever - and most importantly, be able to tank more players than any other group member could handle. It's not as if another player would certainly die instantly against 4 opponents - he might even have a chance to kill them!

These were all great players in 1vs1 so I'm pretty sure if I was with them on any other class I'd get facerolled very quickly.

I think if you want to tank in the current patch, you have to really build for it. I saw another tank dude trying to tank 2-3 people and he couldn't really last long, let alone kill any of the (very good) opposite group members. That's why I went full tank mode, so almost anything you throw at me, it's not a problem.

holosoul wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

I think a tanky character should be able to fight back decently while "tanking" 3-4 enemies - talking about average players, if they were all good ones, there's no way to survive for long anyway.
For an actual tank to be useful, he needs to add something more to the group - be that cc, healing, damage or whatever - and most importantly, be able to tank more players than any other group member could handle. It's not as if another player would certainly die instantly against 4 opponents - he might even have a chance to kill them!

Translation: Tanks should be able to facetank 5 CP 500 players infinitely without having a healer, and also burst their enemies to death 1 at a time.

haha that's not gonna happen I'm afraid

Sorry Mage, but if they were good players, they didn't show it. I know Shally isn't bad, but I also saw execute spam on full health and loads of wasted ults and cc.

holosoul wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

I think a tanky character should be able to fight back decently while "tanking" 3-4 enemies - talking about average players, if they were all good ones, there's no way to survive for long anyway.
For an actual tank to be useful, he needs to add something more to the group - be that cc, healing, damage or whatever - and most importantly, be able to tank more players than any other group member could handle. It's not as if another player would certainly die instantly against 4 opponents - he might even have a chance to kill them!

Translation: Tanks should be able to facetank 5 CP 500 players infinitely without having a healer, and also burst their enemies to death 1 at a time.

I'm pretty sure I didn't say anything like that. I neither said 5, nor infinitely nor burst or even kill anyone. Not going to type it all down again though.

If im fighting a DK who is perma-blocking ill try to light attack and executioner spam him to see if i can get him to break his stam pool. Doesn't cause me to run out of resources but it could potentially cripple him enough to get a dizzy swing in and knock him down for a burst combo.

Asmael

This is not being a tank, this is being a brick. The difference?

A tank supports his team mates, protects them, distracts the enemies and control the flow of a fight.

A brick has no CC, no group buff, no snare, no root, no debuff, not the slightest damage possible. It is something that just stands there doing nothing.

Ajax_22

It's quite obvious those DC were either not trying to kill you or were just plain terrible. Half of the fight is most of the stam builds spamming executioner at 80%+ health, and there are almost no CCs being used. If you wanted to showcase the tankyness of your build this video does a poor job of it.

Kas

what's with those ridiculous claims of doing nothing for the group?
sure, it's not much, but banner is still healing reduction, igneous shield gives a damage shield, vigor does some healing but most importantly, you can use the build as a tank.

i don't like the style too much because it's not very interesting to do, but we have farmed AP very efficiently by sending a "brick" someone, waiting for multiple enemies to engage in meele, and jumped them with proxy.

with many players rerolling stamina builds, if pretty sure such a tank would also soak up a significant amount of single target damage. maybe unless 24v40 at 8fps is your thing or if you exclusively play against equally sized groups of the very best opponents (can I buy your pvp arena alpha access, please? ^^). i reality you'll always have a bunch of players hit the static brick because they dn't want to chase vs cloak, streak, mines, shuffle+dodgeroles, etc

sure, you can think about changing up the build to add in talons, fasalla, reverb, or even the new guard to have more obivous benefit to your group. no idea what will actually make sense. optimal solutions will surely depend on the very situation.

however, this video and build works VERY WELL as a proof of concept from which you can work on.

ToRelax

.

Kas wrote: »

what's with those ridiculous claims of doing nothing for the group?
sure, it's not much, but banner is still healing reduction, igneous shield gives a damage shield, vigor does some healing but most importantly, you can use the build as a tank.

i don't like the style too much because it's not very interesting to do, but we have farmed AP very efficiently by sending a "brick" someone, waiting for multiple enemies to engage in meele, and jumped them with proxy.

with many players rerolling stamina builds, if pretty sure such a tank would also soak up a significant amount of single target damage. maybe unless 24v40 at 8fps is your thing or if you exclusively play against equally sized groups of the very best opponents (can I buy your pvp arena alpha access, please? ^^). i reality you'll always have a bunch of players hit the static brick because they dn't want to chase vs cloak, streak, mines, shuffle+dodgeroles, etc

sure, you can think about changing up the build to add in talons, fasalla, reverb, or even the new guard to have more obivous benefit to your group. no idea what will actually make sense. optimal solutions will surely depend on the very situation.

however, this video and build works VERY WELL as a proof of concept from which you can work on.

It works very well to set up a random mob to bomb them, not so much against a decent player. Without being able to constantly support your group in some other way nor deal significant damage, there's no reason to attack you. As I wrote.

ToRelax wrote: »

LegendaryMage wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

LegendaryMage wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

I think a tanky character should be able to fight back decently while "tanking" 3-4 enemies - talking about average players, if they were all good ones, there's no way to survive for long anyway.
For an actual tank to be useful, he needs to add something more to the group - be that cc, healing, damage or whatever - and most importantly, be able to tank more players than any other group member could handle. It's not as if another player would certainly die instantly against 4 opponents - he might even have a chance to kill them!

These were all great players in 1vs1 so I'm pretty sure if I was with them on any other class I'd get facerolled very quickly.

I think if you want to tank in the current patch, you have to really build for it. I saw another tank dude trying to tank 2-3 people and he couldn't really last long, let alone kill any of the (very good) opposite group members. That's why I went full tank mode, so almost anything you throw at me, it's not a problem.

holosoul wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

I think a tanky character should be able to fight back decently while "tanking" 3-4 enemies - talking about average players, if they were all good ones, there's no way to survive for long anyway.
For an actual tank to be useful, he needs to add something more to the group - be that cc, healing, damage or whatever - and most importantly, be able to tank more players than any other group member could handle. It's not as if another player would certainly die instantly against 4 opponents - he might even have a chance to kill them!

Translation: Tanks should be able to facetank 5 CP 500 players infinitely without having a healer, and also burst their enemies to death 1 at a time.

haha that's not gonna happen I'm afraid

Sorry Mage, but if they were good players, they didn't show it. I know Shally isn't bad, but I also saw execute spam on full health and loads of wasted ults and cc.

holosoul wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

I think a tanky character should be able to fight back decently while "tanking" 3-4 enemies - talking about average players, if they were all good ones, there's no way to survive for long anyway.
For an actual tank to be useful, he needs to add something more to the group - be that cc, healing, damage or whatever - and most importantly, be able to tank more players than any other group member could handle. It's not as if another player would certainly die instantly against 4 opponents - he might even have a chance to kill them!

Translation: Tanks should be able to facetank 5 CP 500 players infinitely without having a healer, and also burst their enemies to death 1 at a time.

I'm pretty sure I didn't say anything like that. I neither said 5, nor infinitely nor burst or even kill anyone. Not going to type it all down again though.

I dueled most of them, they're very good. I think some of them were making a mistake by trying to drain stam via any attack possible, even if it's execute - just make me spend stam. But that won't work on a build with insane block cost reduction. You think tanking is not possible this patch? As in, tanking a group of players for a prolonged period of time.

I know a player can tank a couple people by giving up literally any other support for his group - and even then, you don't really fight more players than if you invested into more cc, mobility or healing. You can survive more that way when you let everyone walk up on you and spam his favorite damage skill in the first place, but what's the point? The most use we could get out of it was to make enemies who focus that tank stack up on him since he won't try to move in order to survive, like his teammates.
In contrast, pre 1.6 our tank would be very helpful with CCs and Banners. And a healer tank would always heal us, of course.

LegendaryMage

ToRelax wrote: »

.

Kas wrote: »

what's with those ridiculous claims of doing nothing for the group?
sure, it's not much, but banner is still healing reduction, igneous shield gives a damage shield, vigor does some healing but most importantly, you can use the build as a tank.

i don't like the style too much because it's not very interesting to do, but we have farmed AP very efficiently by sending a "brick" someone, waiting for multiple enemies to engage in meele, and jumped them with proxy.

with many players rerolling stamina builds, if pretty sure such a tank would also soak up a significant amount of single target damage. maybe unless 24v40 at 8fps is your thing or if you exclusively play against equally sized groups of the very best opponents (can I buy your pvp arena alpha access, please? ^^). i reality you'll always have a bunch of players hit the static brick because they dn't want to chase vs cloak, streak, mines, shuffle+dodgeroles, etc

sure, you can think about changing up the build to add in talons, fasalla, reverb, or even the new guard to have more obivous benefit to your group. no idea what will actually make sense. optimal solutions will surely depend on the very situation.

however, this video and build works VERY WELL as a proof of concept from which you can work on.

It works very well to set up a random mob to bomb them, not so much against a decent player. Without being able to constantly support your group in some other way nor deal significant damage, there's no reason to attack you. As I wrote.

ToRelax wrote: »

LegendaryMage wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

LegendaryMage wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

I think a tanky character should be able to fight back decently while "tanking" 3-4 enemies - talking about average players, if they were all good ones, there's no way to survive for long anyway.
For an actual tank to be useful, he needs to add something more to the group - be that cc, healing, damage or whatever - and most importantly, be able to tank more players than any other group member could handle. It's not as if another player would certainly die instantly against 4 opponents - he might even have a chance to kill them!

These were all great players in 1vs1 so I'm pretty sure if I was with them on any other class I'd get facerolled very quickly.

I think if you want to tank in the current patch, you have to really build for it. I saw another tank dude trying to tank 2-3 people and he couldn't really last long, let alone kill any of the (very good) opposite group members. That's why I went full tank mode, so almost anything you throw at me, it's not a problem.

holosoul wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

I think a tanky character should be able to fight back decently while "tanking" 3-4 enemies - talking about average players, if they were all good ones, there's no way to survive for long anyway.
For an actual tank to be useful, he needs to add something more to the group - be that cc, healing, damage or whatever - and most importantly, be able to tank more players than any other group member could handle. It's not as if another player would certainly die instantly against 4 opponents - he might even have a chance to kill them!

Translation: Tanks should be able to facetank 5 CP 500 players infinitely without having a healer, and also burst their enemies to death 1 at a time.

haha that's not gonna happen I'm afraid

Sorry Mage, but if they were good players, they didn't show it. I know Shally isn't bad, but I also saw execute spam on full health and loads of wasted ults and cc.

holosoul wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

I think a tanky character should be able to fight back decently while "tanking" 3-4 enemies - talking about average players, if they were all good ones, there's no way to survive for long anyway.
For an actual tank to be useful, he needs to add something more to the group - be that cc, healing, damage or whatever - and most importantly, be able to tank more players than any other group member could handle. It's not as if another player would certainly die instantly against 4 opponents - he might even have a chance to kill them!

Translation: Tanks should be able to facetank 5 CP 500 players infinitely without having a healer, and also burst their enemies to death 1 at a time.

I'm pretty sure I didn't say anything like that. I neither said 5, nor infinitely nor burst or even kill anyone. Not going to type it all down again though.

I dueled most of them, they're very good. I think some of them were making a mistake by trying to drain stam via any attack possible, even if it's execute - just make me spend stam. But that won't work on a build with insane block cost reduction. You think tanking is not possible this patch? As in, tanking a group of players for a prolonged period of time.

I know a player can tank a couple people by giving up literally any other support for his group - and even then, you don't really fight more players than if you invested into more cc, mobility or healing. You can survive more that way when you let everyone walk up on you and spam his favorite damage skill in the first place, but what's the point? The most use we could get out of it was to make enemies who focus that tank stack up on him since he won't try to move in order to survive, like his teammates.
In contrast, pre 1.6 our tank would be very helpful with CCs and Banners. And a healer tank would always heal us, of course.

The 'brick' is the only way to solo tank in pvp. Everything else fails. In groups you have the option to build differently, as a solo players you do not. Also, the more you invest into magicka and utility, the squishier you become. I tried it, tried many things before arriving at a more 'concrete' setup.

This build is made for people who want to have fun tanking solo and do not necessarily play with a guild or a random group in Cyrodiil. The only way to tank under these circumstances is to make yourself a 'brick' as you call it.

You have to remember that in heavy armor (which is the only armor type you should be tanking in anyway) you don't get to 'spam' anything and all skills cost more and there's no way for you to constantly do heavy attacks to replenish your resources.

Also, when 5-6 people are attacking you, you take a lot of damage potentially and die before you can replenish any resources effectively. You have to block. And when you block, you have to manage your stamina very well because even one fear means 1/4th of your stam bar gone when you breakfree. Now, having a team mate give you a bit of luminous every now and then (or heal you) is great, but what if that isn't happening? You're just going to be a 'semi tank' that dies pretty quickly (as I saw a couple of other people attempt to do) and doesn't do anything at all. Either you tank or you don't. Make up your mind.

LegendaryMage

Kas wrote: »

what's with those ridiculous claims of doing nothing for the group?
sure, it's not much, but banner is still healing reduction, igneous shield gives a damage shield, vigor does some healing but most importantly, you can use the build as a tank.

i don't like the style too much because it's not very interesting to do, but we have farmed AP very efficiently by sending a "brick" someone, waiting for multiple enemies to engage in meele, and jumped them with proxy.

with many players rerolling stamina builds, if pretty sure such a tank would also soak up a significant amount of single target damage. maybe unless 24v40 at 8fps is your thing or if you exclusively play against equally sized groups of the very best opponents (can I buy your pvp arena alpha access, please? ^^). i reality you'll always have a bunch of players hit the static brick because they dn't want to chase vs cloak, streak, mines, shuffle+dodgeroles, etc

sure, you can think about changing up the build to add in talons, fasalla, reverb, or even the new guard to have more obivous benefit to your group. no idea what will actually make sense. optimal solutions will surely depend on the very situation.

however, this video and build works VERY WELL as a proof of concept from which you can work on.

Thank you, at least someone here who understands how pvp tanking works. Yes, this setup has fasala as well, so the more people that attack you, the more debuffs you inflict on them and punish them for doing so.

What I would do in a big group is jump into them with a leap in the middle of them and then stay there for a long-long time, debuffing everyone and enabling my own alliance people to clear them much easier than otherwise. Some people replying here only see pvp from a narrow perspective, playing as a part of their 'group' or a guild. I don't do any of that so I do what I can in a way that I can. I'm not much of a fan of tanking either, but some people said it's not possible to tank this patch and I think they're wrong.

ToRelax

LegendaryMage wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

.

Kas wrote: »

what's with those ridiculous claims of doing nothing for the group?
sure, it's not much, but banner is still healing reduction, igneous shield gives a damage shield, vigor does some healing but most importantly, you can use the build as a tank.

i don't like the style too much because it's not very interesting to do, but we have farmed AP very efficiently by sending a "brick" someone, waiting for multiple enemies to engage in meele, and jumped them with proxy.

with many players rerolling stamina builds, if pretty sure such a tank would also soak up a significant amount of single target damage. maybe unless 24v40 at 8fps is your thing or if you exclusively play against equally sized groups of the very best opponents (can I buy your pvp arena alpha access, please? ^^). i reality you'll always have a bunch of players hit the static brick because they dn't want to chase vs cloak, streak, mines, shuffle+dodgeroles, etc

sure, you can think about changing up the build to add in talons, fasalla, reverb, or even the new guard to have more obivous benefit to your group. no idea what will actually make sense. optimal solutions will surely depend on the very situation.

however, this video and build works VERY WELL as a proof of concept from which you can work on.

It works very well to set up a random mob to bomb them, not so much against a decent player. Without being able to constantly support your group in some other way nor deal significant damage, there's no reason to attack you. As I wrote.

ToRelax wrote: »

LegendaryMage wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

LegendaryMage wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

I think a tanky character should be able to fight back decently while "tanking" 3-4 enemies - talking about average players, if they were all good ones, there's no way to survive for long anyway.
For an actual tank to be useful, he needs to add something more to the group - be that cc, healing, damage or whatever - and most importantly, be able to tank more players than any other group member could handle. It's not as if another player would certainly die instantly against 4 opponents - he might even have a chance to kill them!

These were all great players in 1vs1 so I'm pretty sure if I was with them on any other class I'd get facerolled very quickly.

I think if you want to tank in the current patch, you have to really build for it. I saw another tank dude trying to tank 2-3 people and he couldn't really last long, let alone kill any of the (very good) opposite group members. That's why I went full tank mode, so almost anything you throw at me, it's not a problem.

holosoul wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

I think a tanky character should be able to fight back decently while "tanking" 3-4 enemies - talking about average players, if they were all good ones, there's no way to survive for long anyway.
For an actual tank to be useful, he needs to add something more to the group - be that cc, healing, damage or whatever - and most importantly, be able to tank more players than any other group member could handle. It's not as if another player would certainly die instantly against 4 opponents - he might even have a chance to kill them!

Translation: Tanks should be able to facetank 5 CP 500 players infinitely without having a healer, and also burst their enemies to death 1 at a time.

haha that's not gonna happen I'm afraid

Sorry Mage, but if they were good players, they didn't show it. I know Shally isn't bad, but I also saw execute spam on full health and loads of wasted ults and cc.

holosoul wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

I think a tanky character should be able to fight back decently while "tanking" 3-4 enemies - talking about average players, if they were all good ones, there's no way to survive for long anyway.
For an actual tank to be useful, he needs to add something more to the group - be that cc, healing, damage or whatever - and most importantly, be able to tank more players than any other group member could handle. It's not as if another player would certainly die instantly against 4 opponents - he might even have a chance to kill them!

Translation: Tanks should be able to facetank 5 CP 500 players infinitely without having a healer, and also burst their enemies to death 1 at a time.

I'm pretty sure I didn't say anything like that. I neither said 5, nor infinitely nor burst or even kill anyone. Not going to type it all down again though.

I dueled most of them, they're very good. I think some of them were making a mistake by trying to drain stam via any attack possible, even if it's execute - just make me spend stam. But that won't work on a build with insane block cost reduction. You think tanking is not possible this patch? As in, tanking a group of players for a prolonged period of time.

I know a player can tank a couple people by giving up literally any other support for his group - and even then, you don't really fight more players than if you invested into more cc, mobility or healing. You can survive more that way when you let everyone walk up on you and spam his favorite damage skill in the first place, but what's the point? The most use we could get out of it was to make enemies who focus that tank stack up on him since he won't try to move in order to survive, like his teammates.
In contrast, pre 1.6 our tank would be very helpful with CCs and Banners. And a healer tank would always heal us, of course.

The 'brick' is the only way to solo tank in pvp. Everything else fails. In groups you have the option to build differently, as a solo players you do not. Also, the more you invest into magicka and utility, the squishier you become. I tried it, tried many things before arriving at a more 'concrete' setup.

This build is made for people who want to have fun tanking solo and do not necessarily play with a guild or a random group in Cyrodiil. The only way to tank under these circumstances is to make yourself a 'brick' as you call it.

You have to remember that in heavy armor (which is the only armor type you should be tanking in anyway) you don't get to 'spam' anything and all skills cost more and there's no way for you to constantly do heavy attacks to replenish your resources.

Also, when 5-6 people are attacking you, you take a lot of damage potentially and die before you can replenish any resources effectively. You have to block. And when you block, you have to manage your stamina very well because even one fear means 1/4th of your stam bar gone when you breakfree. Now, having a team mate give you a bit of luminous every now and then (or heal you) is great, but what if that isn't happening? You're just going to be a 'semi tank' that dies pretty quickly (as I saw a couple of other people attempt to do) and doesn't do anything at all. Either you tank or you don't. Make up your mind.

What are you trying to tell me? I know all this, I just don't think that's the way it should be. x)

LegendaryMage

Asmael wrote: »

This is not being a tank, this is being a brick. The difference?

A tank supports his team mates, protects them, distracts the enemies and control the flow of a fight.

A brick has no CC, no group buff, no snare, no root, no debuff, not the slightest damage possible. It is something that just stands there doing nothing.

A brick is what will enable you to tank in solo pvp. I had no team mates around nor anyone to support but myself. This video showcases simply that pvp tanking IS possible contrary to what many have said.

Ajax_22 wrote: »

It's quite obvious those DC were either not trying to kill you or were just plain terrible. Half of the fight is most of the stam builds spamming executioner at 80%+ health, and there are almost no CCs being used. If you wanted to showcase the tankyness of your build this video does a poor job of it.

People on pts are generally (on average) better players than those on live in random encounters. They actually do care about min-maxing and playing an optimal setup. Any other random group of 4-5 players out there would have done an even worse job, much worse. The ones you see in the video, are quite contrary, really trying to kill me and not just messing around for the sake of me demonstrating a 'fake' build or anything.

@SRIBES are you a bad player too according to this evaluation?

DKsUnite

Asmael wrote: »

This is not being a tank, this is being a brick. The difference?

A tank supports his team mates, protects them, distracts the enemies and control the flow of a fight.

A brick has no CC, no group buff, no snare, no root, no debuff, not the slightest damage possible. It is something that just stands there doing nothing.

Urai

People have no idea how easily you get people in a tunnel-vision. But doing so requires you to have a tactical game play, just the example Kas wrote..think, set it up, execute...MMO players these days don't care "Me no think, me just kill" and 90% looks for the 1 shot-kill, "I kill it before it reacts then i'm an awesome warlord" No you'r not, you'r the reason all these games get dumbed down to toddler status. How popular would a 1 button mmo be actually ? everyone one ability whom ever mashes it first gets the kill....Fisher Price would be interested!

So Legandarymage I think it's great you put it up there but the comments speak for themselves, you might reach that last 10% if they didn't already left the game.

Jhunn

Pointless video Mage. People are arguing about the fact that to be tanky, you now have to 1) drop all damage 2) drop ressources. The problem is this ruins solo-viability for templars and DKs, forced to run light armor, and who doesn't have mobility like sorcs and NBs.

Asmael

LegendaryMage wrote: »

Asmael wrote: »

This is not being a tank, this is being a brick. The difference?

A tank supports his team mates, protects them, distracts the enemies and control the flow of a fight.

A brick has no CC, no group buff, no snare, no root, no debuff, not the slightest damage possible. It is something that just stands there doing nothing.

A brick is what will enable you to tank in solo pvp. I had no team mates around nor anyone to support but myself. This video showcases simply that pvp tanking IS possible contrary to what many have said.

[snip]

We'll agree to disagree on that. Bricking is not the only way to keep yourself alive. Debuffing and CC'ing your opponents should be part of your tanking toolset, and should help your survivability.

Too many times, I see tanks that can do nothing but take damage. Every single time they face a coordinated group, it ends up in them being completely ignored, all their allies murdered, and them either killed last, or left alive and still ignored.

It is possible on live to tank multiple people solo. It'll still be possible, perhaps even easier, to tank many peeps at once with DB (even with the ways to tank change), nothing to say about it, we'll agree on that.

I guess we mostly have an issue with the definition of tanking here, since it's much more to me than just staying alive.

Praeficere

I failed to see the tanking part

LegendaryMage

Urai wrote: »

People have no idea how easily you get people in a tunnel-vision. But doing so requires you to have a tactical game play, just the example Kas wrote..think, set it up, execute...MMO players these days don't care "Me no think, me just kill" and 90% looks for the 1 shot-kill, "I kill it before it reacts then i'm an awesome warlord" No you'r not, you'r the reason all these games get dumbed down to toddler status. How popular would a 1 button mmo be actually ? everyone one ability whom ever mashes it first gets the kill....Fisher Price would be interested!

So Legandarymage I think it's great you put it up there but the comments speak for themselves, you might reach that last 10% if they didn't already left the game.

You're right man, I see it very often with people discussing builds and tactics, seems like everyone here is a huge fps fan lol

I was big on fps's too, I used to play counter strike very competitively but got bored of it eventually and wanted something else. ESO seemed like the perfect game at the time, but nowadays this pvp community really has deteriorated so much compared to what it used to be 2 or so years ago. It's just sad...

Sandman929

Ah, of course all the naysayers come to tell you that this may be effective on others, but not them, they're elite. Congrats on not creating another cookie cutter, I-must-max-dps, build.
PvP players are getting so excruciatingly boring. It's to the point that if I know your class, I know exactly what you're running on both bars, because some youtuber shared the recipe a month ago.

ToRelax

So to bring the point across and actually show differences between the kind of tank i was talking about and the "brick wall" as it was described in this thread so nicely, I'll link two videos here.

This one is raw footage from 1.5, not showing the limit of how many players could be tanked or anything, rather the best footage to show the focus on cc and protecting teammates i could find.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_hmYppa4Oro

The other one is from half a year ago, showing what became of an attempt to create a new tank build:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ed3Z1VGA7uk

As you can see, in the first video, Dalris is really trying cc everyone attacking me instead, making her the centre of the fight, and at the same time support me with damage and the healing debuff from banner to kill these players then.
Whereas in the second example, Assilma is very stationary, able to provide a lot less cc and damage support, if any, and the attacking players are in no real danger. Just a bit slow minds maybe. :P
So, as was said, this brick wall is mostly good to stack up enemies who will attack you just because you didn't run around the tree with the others, in other words, farming randoms/pugs. While it is not utterly useless against more organized groups, as it is still able to place banners and talons occasionally in positions where other teammates would have problems, it still pales in comparison to the first example at that.

Sandman929

ToRelax wrote: »

So to bring the point across and actually show differences between the kind of tank i was talking about and the "brick wall" as it was described in this thread so nicely, I'll link two videos here.

This one is raw footage from 1.5, not showing the limit of how many players could be tanked or anything, rather the best footage to show the focus on cc and protecting teammates i could find.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_hmYppa4Oro

The other one is from half a year ago, showing what became of an attempt to create a new tank build:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ed3Z1VGA7uk

As you can see, in the first video, Dalris is really trying cc everyone attacking me instead, making her the centre of the fight, and at the same time support me with damage and the healing debuff from banner to kill these players then.
Whereas in the second example, Assilma is very stationary, able to provide a lot less cc and damage support, if any, and the attacking players are in no real danger. Just a bit slow minds maybe. :P
So, as was said, this brick wall is mostly good to stack up enemies who will attack you just because you didn't run around the tree with the others, in other words, farming randoms/pugs. While it is not utterly useless against more organized groups, as it is still able to place banners and talons occasionally in positions where other teammates would have problems, it still pales in comparison to the first example at that.

I agree that anyone tanking PvP has to find a way to be useful aside from just being unkillable, but even being unkillable can useful if your group capitalizes on your distraction. If you jump down off a keep and start heading for the siege line, you'll definitely attract some attention from the enemy and counter siege will clean up.
Anyway, I just appreciate any build that isn't completely predictable.

LegendaryMage

@ToRelax second clip looks like a brick to me tbh.

Not sure what you consider utility but talons every half a minute is not utility nor does it do anything significant in pvp where people know how to dodge roll and avoid them. Petrify? Fine, it does restore stamina and slows down a target or two, but a tank cannot afford to cast this 'utility' often in pvp because he/she will be killed.

First clip is irrelevant because that game doesn't exist anymore, you know that.

I guess we have two mindsets here. One is a more conventional 'tank' that 'helps the group' (how often is questionable tbh) and the other one is a 'brick' which is a purely tanking build for staying alive as much as possible and soaking up as much damage as possible. If I had to choose between those two, I'd go with a brick and soak up 50 times more damage before going down, than casting 4-5 more utility skills that won't do much. You know in the second clip if it was a full 'brick', there would be no need to retreat at all. You would push forward and eat much more damage. That damage would otherwise go to your team mates.

That IS utility so to speak, if you ask me. There's no better utility than a tank that can actually stand there and take it for 15-20 minutes no problem.

kaithuzar

To be honest, if someone better were to play my build I think they could tank & spank 3 good players, 4-5 is pushing it though, but probably 10 bad players.

ToRelax

LegendaryMage wrote: »

ToRelax second clip looks like a brick to me tbh.

Not sure what you consider utility but talons every half a minute is not utility nor does it do anything significant in pvp where people know how to dodge roll and avoid them. Petrify? Fine, it does restore stamina and slows down a target or two, but a tank cannot afford to cast this 'utility' often in pvp because he/she will be killed.

First clip is irrelevant because that game doesn't exist anymore, you know that.

I guess we have two mindsets here. One is a more conventional 'tank' that 'helps the group' (how often is questionable tbh) and the other one is a 'brick' which is a purely tanking build for staying alive as much as possible and soaking up as much damage as possible. If I had to choose between those two, I'd go with a brick and soak up 50 times more damage before going down, than casting 4-5 more utility skills that won't do much. You know in the second clip if it was a full 'brick', there would be no need to retreat at all. You would push forward and eat much more damage. That damage would otherwise go to your team mates.

That IS utility so to speak, if you ask me. There's no better utility than a tank that can actually stand there and take it for 15-20 minutes no problem.

Well a brick is what I called the second one myself, so there's no denying that.

I watched the first one again, noticed Banner wasn't actually used there - that doesn't show the whole utility of course, since Banner + Negate was (and is again) awesome, whereas both of us used Clouding Swarm mainly as surviviability tool or additional damage against few targets.

As for that game doesn't exist anymore - well it changed, and that's the point. You said it yourself, "people have been complaining about tanking" - I would imagine they really just have a different mindset as you put it, maybe like mine, maybe different. Currently this form of tanking just doesn't work well, which really is a shame. We don't have to undo all the changes since then to bring this tactic back. I mean, you can see how often talons are being used in the first clip - for that time, not too bad magicka sustain, but more importantly, it actually drained enemies stamina - or locked them in their place, which would be even better.

But yeah, you understand what I was trying to get across now.

Bashev

This video looks like a test in a control environment. The reality in open world is different. Here you move constantly because there is no bombard spammers. Also all the skills that you equipped are only defensive. You dont even have a gap closer. How will you charge to the enemies and try to take their attention? Leap once and then what? You dont have a single CC skill.

Anyway I am sure you can swap several skills and make the build useful in open PvP but the main issue right now with the tanking is that it is not rewarding at all if you are not in a group. ZoS logic.

vamp_emily

I think a build like this might be good for me.

I like to go out solo to flag keeps, something like this may keep me alive longer. Also I belong to a guild, and this would be beneficial for the group. It would possibly allow me to revive the dead without dying.

In BwB when the Enemy sees me they think it's Dinner Time. Nobody can turn down an Emily Kill no matter what danger it may cause them. So ya I think this build would be a great distraction for my guild mates.

I might not be able to kill anyone but that is ok I die most the time anyways.

@LegendaryMage what race would be good for a tank like this?