Melee Magic Nightblade- the problem

joshhh_nb

Is it just me, or is the only purpose of a dual wield magic NB a Zerg bomber? Compared to a Stam blade my resource management is horrible, concealed weapon and lotus cost too much for the damage they do. Stam nightblades on the other hand have suprise attack and ambush which has much higher dps. Furthermore, my magic Templar and my magic sorc can run the same spell damage and recovery and still do much better than my mag blade in both solo and group play. Learn to play issue or should magic NB see a revamp in concealed and lotus?

Turelus

I think ZOS general thoughts behind this has always been Magicka skills cost more because the pool they draw from isn't used for anything else.

Otherwise I'm not really a number cruncher enough to tell you if the skills are at the right levels or not.

FatKidHatchets

Invis, invis, invis, oh and invis. Also try swallow soul.

Van_0S

joshhh_nb wrote: »

Is it just me, or is the only purpose of a dual wield magic NB a Zerg bomber? Compared to a Stam blade my resource management is horrible, concealed weapon and lotus cost too much for the damage they do. Stam nightblades on the other hand have suprise attack and ambush which has much higher dps. Furthermore, my magic Templar and my magic sorc can run the same spell damage and recovery and still do much better than my mag blade in both solo and group play. Learn to play issue or should magic NB see a revamp in concealed and lotus?

OP,
So you noticed!!!
Yep, MagNB melee are not good compared to stamblade and other magicka melee fighters.

Lotus fan does no damage when the target is in full health, conceal weapon can't finish the target and soul harvest sometimes kills the target but all classes are able to access heals.
So, in the end it leads to waste of your time.
Without, proxy detonation/ VD and soul tether( which take like forever to fill) this class is below other classes in damage melee.

joshhh_nb

@Van_0S Keep in mind they are severely nerfing proxy against one target so there goes one of our burst. If they just make it that concealed weapon reduces spell resist by the same amount suprise attack does we can be as competitive as Stam NB. Magic nbs are inherently meant to snare targets which is what pisses me off and why so many people just spam lotus fan. Remove the snare from lotus, magic nbs have enough snares.

Van_0S

joshhh_nb wrote: »

@Van_0S Keep in mind they are severely nerfing proxy against one target so there goes one of our burst. If they just make it that concealed weapon reduces spell resist by the same amount suprise attack does we can be as competitive as Stam NB. Magic nbs are inherently meant to snare targets which is what pisses me off and why so many people just spam lotus fan. Remove the snare from lotus, magic nbs have enough snares.

Yes, I know!

That is why MagNB won't be a killer/ class in the next patch.
Also, I never use Proxy deto, soul tether and VD in my build as a melee MagNB.

So, I do know that magNB sucks as a melee. The only option I can find now is to use destro staff and sallow soul also inevitable detonation in my build.

Edit:
Yes, if they change the conceal weapon tool tip to reduce spell resistance of the target then it will be good.

Brrrofski

I've played everything on magica NB in pvp.

Started with destro staff. Went dual wield before I had proxy. Tried vicious death, Proxy, alchemist when that was a thing. Now running an ice staff build which is by far my favourite.

You can definitely run dual wield effectively without being a bomber. Summon shade and Siphoning strikes are pretty important for how I played that style.

Unless you're bombing, I think a magica NB needs like 22-25k health. Main reason is you can't realy on Cloak now. Especially when wrecking blow takes you out of it...

I do prefer ranged for magica NB though. The ice staff build is great fun and destroys magica players.

Nb and sorc ranged, Dk and templar melee. That's my prefered way to play them.

Van_0S

Brrrofski wrote: »

Unless you're bombing, I think a magica NB needs like 22-25k health. Main reason is you can't realy on Cloak now. Especially when wrecking blow takes you out of it...

Also cloak drains your magicka that is if you rely on cloak alot ( like me).

Ialso have found ways to use Cloak to counter WB, light attack, steel turnado, bombard,crystal frags, talons, javelin spammers but you need good regen to avoid all this.

joshhh_nb

I also started off playing with destro and it was fun for awhile but merciless resolve, LA, swallow soul to proc resolve and timing it with harvest and proxy gets boring.

The only reason I haven't levelled a Stam blade is because cripple and shadow image is so fun, make concealed weapon hit a bit harder and magic NB will stay the love of my life. Hopefully the new spell damage enchants will help melee night blades

MIAMI

Melee Mag NB can work without proxy you just need the right setup

joshhh_nb

Yeah Ive changed my gear and champion points I hit like a truck now 6-10k concealed weapon crits and my sustain is great. With changes to fighters guild and if they fix clouding swarm mag nbs is gonna be interesting to play

Dracan_Fontom

I rock with my melee magblade build. And conceal does the job for me.

joshhh_nb

@Dracan_Fontom yeah I came back to my NB after everyone stopped running it, changed some cps and my concealed weapon is hitting hard, but you know what else hits as hard? Swallow soul. Not only does t cost less but it also heals you. I'm hitting hard right now but the movement speed buff is quite lack luster and considering that I'm running without proxy, my burst is limited. Don't forget next patch everything is gonna cost 10% more.

kaithuzar

Helpful things for running a magic nb....
Try skills like debilitating (other morph of cripple) as you can put it on multiple targets, also I love using prolonged suffering!
Those are 2 decently good dots while you are doing your whole concealed strike thing.
Next, GEAR, you gotta run gear that gives good recovery (like 2 + magic recovery & 1 sp dmg buff or something similar), the dmg is easy to get with duel wield swords torugs pact, 1 kena (2 if you run impossible to get lich set)
You also need magic recovery mundus & magic + stam recovery drink as it gives the highest recovery, in light of recovery you could stack some magic reduction however it doesn't scale as well as recovery does. Vampirism helps too but I've been running bats on both bars lately b/c I don't want to lose recovery.
IMO, I think 2.2k magic recovery is the absolute minimal & I try to shoot for 3k recovery + 3k sp dmg (unbuffed)
BTW what i don't really like about swallow soul is that it can be reflected, however I still run it for the heal buff.

-kai

Lokey0024

@kaithuzar. Cant run lich and kena.

Im running julianos/lich and doing real good with it. The dw style compliments IC ganking and smallscale. the ZvZ fights usually deteriorate into who had more healers and spam aoe and snipe better. Anyone breaking the line usually gets FF and melted so Destro staff and attack the rear guard, which is usually the squishies.

Soul swallow is kinda hard to see so you can spam it little risk, but the Destro staff abilities are obvious. You can cloak away easy enough so dont over commit.

And if you have any other mundus for pvp then shadow or wep/spell dmg you won't be able to hang with the big boys unless you zerg.

kaithuzar

Lokey0024 wrote: »

@kaithuzar. Cant run lich and kena.

Im running julianos/lich and doing real good with it. The dw style compliments IC ganking and smallscale. the ZvZ fights usually deteriorate into who had more healers and spam aoe and snipe better. Anyone breaking the line usually gets FF and melted so Destro staff and attack the rear guard, which is usually the squishies.

Soul swallow is kinda hard to see so you can spam it little risk, but the Destro staff abilities are obvious. You can cloak away easy enough so dont over commit.

And if you have any other mundus for pvp then shadow or wep/spell dmg you won't be able to hang with the big boys unless you zerg.

you are right, forgot about helmet, i think you can still run 1 piece with the shoulder though?

Lokey0024

@kaithuzar. Na its chest helm gloves shoulders staff.

joshhh_nb

no you cannot @kaithuzar

Francescolg

You can perfectly play magicka nb, one bar is for stealth/mobility/buffs and on the other one you can run the classic setup with grim focus, crippling grasp, funnel health/destro DD. You can even play without Proximity Detonation.
To be good at magicka NB learn to stealth very often and to cast most heavy attacks/hart hitting DDs from stealth.
For PvP get efficient purge!!!

joshhh_nb

Francescolg wrote: »

You can perfectly play magicka nb, one bar is for stealth/mobility/buffs and on the other one you can run the classic setup with grim focus, crippling grasp, funnel health/destro DD. You can even play without Proximity Detonation.
To be good at magicka NB learn to stealth very often and to cast most heavy attacks/hart hitting DDs from stealth.
For PvP get efficient purge!!!

"melee magic nb" but as i've said i returned to my nightblade after the vicious death nbs left and i am doing well, but i still think they should change concealed weapon so it reduces spell resistance. Destro resto mag nb is easy mode.

ScruffyWhiskers

With the way that Dark Stalker is borking up with Concealed Weapon while stealthed but fine while just invisible, I would take the reduced spell resistance at this point.

NativeJoe

joshhh_nb wrote: »

Is it just me, or is the only purpose of a dual wield magic NB a Zerg bomber? Compared to a Stam blade my resource management is horrible, concealed weapon and lotus cost too much for the damage they do. Stam nightblades on the other hand have suprise attack and ambush which has much higher dps. Furthermore, my magic Templar and my magic sorc can run the same spell damage and recovery and still do much better than my mag blade in both solo and group play. Learn to play issue or should magic NB see a revamp in concealed and lotus?

Far be it for me to say l2p, But magicka nbs are not bad in upfront no stealth situations. I mean strobx (special character o) is very good with his magicka nightblade. And several other nightblades I've encountered running an ice staff on one bar, resto on the other have been very tough cookies, especially when running winterborn.

Now are they as good as templars? No, templars are a complete class unto themselves at this point. Stamina dk's and stamina nightblades have their own OP sense this patch. But still they can be very competitive. I've seen magicka nightblades NOT running explode builds do very well this patch 1vsX... The nightblade class is very versatile and with fear, CCs, and alot of different set effects to choose from you can mold yourself into a resounding power unto itself.

joshhh_nb

Can people not read melee?!? My destro Resto NB is fine. It's actually easy mode until you're against a dk. @NativeJoe I exaggerated a bit when I said they're bad (melee, no proxy) but I still remain adamant that they should boost concealed weapon damage and probably nerf swallow soul.

Lokey0024

joshhh_nb wrote: »

Can people not read melee?!? My destro Resto NB is fine. It's actually easy mode until you're against a dk. @NativeJoe I exaggerated a bit when I said they're bad (melee, no proxy) but I still remain adamant that they should boost concealed weapon damage and probably nerf swallow soul.

Nooooo i use that and CW to murda fools

Lava_Croft

Magicka Melee NB has been on life support for a while and the only thing they really got with the last update is several nerfs to their damage output. It's hard mode Nightbladin' and inferior to just about anything.

SupremeTravie

Missing those pre 1.6 magicika NB days.

ScruffyWhiskers

SupremeTravie wrote: »

Missing those pre 1.6 magicika NB days.

I would have my beloved Stygian back again. If only. If only.

Lokey0024

Arent poisons going to add a bit of life to a melee mag NB. Enchant on one blade poison on the other. Or double poison? I'm a console peasent so havent been able to test

cschwingeb14_ESO

joshhh_nb wrote: »

Can people not read melee?!?.

You're the one who brought magicka sorcs into this as a comparison. Or are you suggesting that all the (0) magicka melee sorcs are doing better than your magicka melee nb.

Junkogen

It's the curse of Shadow cloak. So many people complain about it so ZOS thinks it's super powerful, despite the reality. Therefore everything gets gimped according to that belief.

joshhh_nb

I'm starting to take it back lol, running lich set and switching around with julianos and kagrenac damn I'm hitting hard with 9k concealed crits, with dark brotherhood and the spell damage enchants its gonna be nasty

But magic sorcs are indeed better than dw mag blades in 1vx scenarios idk about in dark brother hood because of the shield changes but running cloak next patch looks like utter s***.

@Lokey0024 same I'm a console peasant too but the enchants are getting me excited not poisons , lich with kagrenac is enough resources for me and spell damage glyphs on my front bar and disease on my back bar seems good enough. It'd be useful to run poisons so heal bots and shield stackers run out of magic though.