Mag dk...

kinggingernator

Im not even here to provide solutions. Zos will do what zos will do. However I just wanna lay out the issues in the current game state, that will hopefully shed some light on them that they need to do SOMETHING.

Magicka dk is obviously no longer the best class. It moved straight from the top of the food chain to bottom (along with stam sorc but... lol) for a few simple reasons.

1. It used to be good because people were clueless. Don't get me wrong this wasn't the only reason it used to be so op, but its playstyle catered to fighting less educated players. Scales and cinder storm being key examples, as people just didn't know what to do about either of em. For the most part at this point people would have much better knowledge as to how to counter the old school playstyle.

2. It lacks burst. This is pretty simple, it has weaker burst than any other class in the game by such a wide margin its not even funny. Meteor is the only real thing that dks have that's capable of bursting people, and using it feels cheap in 1v1s. A fossilize meteor has VERY few counters and it doesn't feel like you really won tbh.

3. Dks are fine in 1v1s. They were fine before the burning embers buff and they are one of the strongest 1v1 classes in the game now. They don't need any more buffs for that type of scenario.

4. They lack an execute, movement speed, dodge chance, a purge, and a decent gap closer. Chains is passable now but it is still the worst gap closer in the game.
As for the others they are things that all other classes have access to in one way or another, and on top of the dks low burst it just feels stupid.

5. Their passives are not great. Most of their passives revolve around tanking and resources management, but in general they are one of the squishiest classes in the game when outnumbered. Doesn't make a whole lot of sense and they just need a little help there.

6. They have great cc and aoe. Talons can be extremely good when using los, and honestly if I can get on some rocks and have inhale slotted I can survive indefinitely. They don't need help here.

7. They lack stat boosting passives. This is the kind of thing that dks need, most of their abilities cost more than other classes as a whole (8.) and this means open world resource management is much harder, even with battle roar. Dks don't have any stat buffing passives, while nbs have 15% regen across the boards, more health and way more max magicka. It doesn't make a lot of sense.

8. They already have strong heals. Im not sure about this whole buff dragons blood thing right now becquse burst healing was the one issue i wasnt struggling with. Against 4-5 people inhale is straight to full health, and against any less burning embers or blessing of restoation works fine. Blessing is giving me 9k crit heals and we all know burning embers is full health fi you let it tick for a little bit. Honestly i wouldnt even slot dragons blood if it got buffed, unless it could dethrone blessing (although im not sure since it cant crit.) Overall healing was one area that it felt really strong in...

Conclusion: Magicka dk is by no means unplayable, even solo, but you have to rely on meteor to burst people and if you get snared, ambush spammed, talonsed, or even caught by burst from one player its over. Overall they need a buff to their burst (maybe just up lash dmg, although that seems simple and would make them op for duels) and some sort of mobility. Giving them more options to be able to move around the map or just buffing their passives will help them in open world. Personally I had thought of a passive that increases resistance for the dmg you take from each new player but idk how exactly that would work. Just my thoughts on mag dk currently, if you have any suggestions or salt please insert below.

Edit: Added number 8.

Armitas

Solid analysis, you really nailed it. I whole hardheartedly agree with each point except Dragons Blood (unsure where we are in 1v1s). You are right that Draw essence is completely sufficient as a full heal when surrounded, and you are right that blessing of restoration is sufficient when alone but the thing is blessing of restoration is incredibly more powerful than dragons blood.

Blessing of Restoration

• Costs a lot less than Dragon Blood
• The heal can Crit
• Heals others
• Doesn't have a diminishing returns on healing to full
• Doesn't require you to be at deaths door to be a valuable heal
• Heals for more in all but the most extreme levels of low health using dragon blood, but even so a single restoration crit will heal for more.
• Adds armor to anyone it heals including yourself.

Dragons blood is just so far behind blessing of restoration now even though Dragon Blood never got nerfed. It just fell behind due to battle spirit and they haven't bothered to do anything about that for a year. It really should fulfill it's purpose as a burst heal, and conceptually a class skill should always be better then a universal skill.

Please add your analysis here too because the devs need really need to see it. (# 8 might get some salt there but I think the rest will be understood by most everyone there)

Armitas

kinggingernator wrote: »

5. Their passives are not great. Most of their passives revolve around tanking and resources management, but in general they are one of the squishiest classes in the game when outnumbered. Doesn't make a whole lot of sense and they just need a little help there.

I think the reason why we are so squishy is that everything we relied on for defense has been destroyed.

• Miss chance gone from ash cloud
• Shielding gone due to battle spirit and being health based
• Reflective scales nerfed to 4 reflects per second plus I swear it's not working a lot of the time
• Dragon blood destroyed by battle spirit and no crit

So we have to get our defense elsewhere such as through blocking or armor rating. Well blocking got nerfed, and 5 gold heavy armor pieces can be completely penetrated by two maces or 1 maul. So we really have almost no innate and reliable defense left. Meanwhile Sorcs have shields and mobility, NBs have stealth and mobility neither of which can be trivially over come as simply as armor rating. They have pushed us so far that we have to look outside of our class for our own defense.

kinggingernator wrote: »

7. They lack stat boosting passives. This is the kind of thing that dks need, most of their abilities cost more than other classes as a whole (8.) and this means open world resource management is much harder, even with battle roar. Dks don't have any stat buffing passives, while nbs have 15% regen across the boards, more health and way more max magicka. It doesn't make a lot of sense.

I think this contributes a lot to our poor damage as well. Because we have no innate recovery or cost reduction we have to get it from our armor sets, Jewelry, and glyphs...which is also where we would acquire our spell/weapon damage. So we can't grab as much damage from our sets because we first have to grab our sustain and then our damage from what ever slot is left open.

Ishammael

This was actually a good list. Excellent explanations.

@Armitas
RE: Blessing of Restoration. This has always been a far superior heal to DB. The big downside, of course, is that it requires resto staff.

RE: Passives. DK passives are horrible. They used to be OK... but so much in the game has changed that these have not been changed to suit. Battle Roar is the easiest example -- it has been nerfed several times, both directly and through gameplay changes.

kinggingernator

Thanks for the feedback glad to see you guys are thinking the same way. Yea I do believe that the passives are a major contributor to their struggles currently. Its not pointed out as much as other issues, but at the heart of it they really are the worst passives in the game.
I was also thinking about adding a buff to the dots so that they act as sort of a chain. Essentially instead of the 30% snare they apply a snare that gets worse the further away you get, until it's like 90% at Max range (whatever that might be). This would keep them from having to slot a gap closer and would help them control the field a bit more open world.

kinggingernator

I also wanted to add that they need to slot more skills than other classes. This doesn't make a ton of sense but more so on magicka dk than anything else, I feel like I always need more skill slots. Currently open world I don't have room for proxy, a gap closer, or even a hard cc which I think is ridiculous. I have to switch on fossilize and proxy/chains instead of scales and inhale for duels as of now.

Ariades_swe

Excellent writeup of the shortcomings and strengths of the mdk.

Moglijuana

yup. +1 to everything you just said.

at least mist form is going to remove snares now though...but that is where my proxy is slotted...time to whip twice as much =/.

Armitas

These are some pretty insightful comments, I can't believe you only recently joined the forums.

kinggingernator

Yea I have been playing for a long time, but I really didn't have any need to post on the forums. Figured I would make my first post just a quick representation of my stance on magicka dks, which even this patch are still my favorite to play 1vX

sphane

I think also magica dk compared to other classes is the one that has to spread champion points the most. Actuallly, to me it's a class well designed in the meaning that you have to make hard choices to find balance between defence, survivibility and damage.

Stamina management is such a thing for magica dk that i think they should have passives to help this out.

Bosov

kinggingernator wrote: »

Meteor is the only real thing that dks have that's capable of bursting people, and using it feels cheap in 1v1s. A fossilize meteor has VERY few counters and it doesn't feel like you really won tbh.

Every class can do that though. When i slot meteor on my stam or mag nb i can shoot it, gap close and fear. Fear is by far the best cc in the game and doesnt even break on damage like fossilize does.

A sorc can do meteor (lower cost even since sorc passive) and streak through someone to cc them.

I dont know about templars since i dont play one, do they have a cc which cant be blocked?

I need my meteor fossilize, i dont think its cheap but i think its necessary for a mag dk. If i dont use it a sorc will harness magicka all my whips for hours and hours. A templar will just BoL himself back to full health after i did a a series of talons, whips, power lashes and my dots...

I love mag dk but it feels like being in a disadvantage in many situations.

kinggingernator

Oh don't get me wrong other classes can do it as well. Thing is that fossilize is ranged and goes through block and Dodge roll. Streak doesn't go through block which SHOULD be the first thing you do when you see the meteor.
Gap close fear can work but only with perfect timing, and that is just yet another example of how op nbs are.
Don't get me wrong I'm not saying not to use the combo, I'm saying I wish it wasn't the only thing available to burst people.

Chapmaaaan

I find the skills cost a lot of magicka as well. it's a joke. I have just under 2k regen but still can only manage a couple of spells and then I'm just standing there like 'lol plz don't attack me'

@Bosov teach me how to DK

Brrrofski

Moglijuana wrote: »

yup. +1 to everything you just said.

at least mist form is going to remove snares now though...but that is where my proxy is slotted...time to whip twice as much =/.

Lol, I have the same issue. Also, that might have to be my Annulment spot. Every magica build will probably be using it, so you'll be at a disadvantage if not.

Moglijuana

Brrrofski wrote: »

Moglijuana wrote: »

yup. +1 to everything you just said.

at least mist form is going to remove snares now though...but that is where my proxy is slotted...time to whip twice as much =/.

Lol, I have the same issue. Also, that might have to be my Annulment spot. Every magica build will probably be using it, so you'll be at a disadvantage if not.

I have a spot for annulment on my bar already I usually juggle between that and Igneous/Mutagen depending on who I'm playing with. Proxy is usually on my flex as I swap it out with burning embers if I'm solo and use proxy when I run with a small man.

On a side note, I have a stam nb at v10 right now that I'm just waiting to gear out with shield breaker next patch (on a different alliance too lol) to wreak some havoc on all these new shield stackers . I'm excited to hunt all my guild members down haha.

Bosov

Brrrofski wrote: »

Moglijuana wrote: »

yup. +1 to everything you just said.

at least mist form is going to remove snares now though...but that is where my proxy is slotted...time to whip twice as much =/.

Lol, I have the same issue. Also, that might have to be my Annulment spot. Every magica build will probably be using it, so you'll be at a disadvantage if not.

With the change to the defending trait and heavy armor changes i might drop volatile armor for annulment and drop proxy for mist form but since i do like the look of my spikes its still a big if.

Still no room for a gap closer on my bar though. Got to love the slowly jogging since sprinting is out of the question because stam management.

Maybe its possible to catch up with people running away by using mist form as a gap closer?

Chadwikid

Run speed is 40% increased speed mist form give you major expedition which is now 30% increase speed so not its not possible to catch up via mist from unfortunately. Mist form is good for damage mitigation, repositioning, and LOS