vWGT and vICP

Levi

I know there are other threads about this. However, the more threads about this topic the better.

The difficulty of vWGT and vICP needs to be preserved.

Why?
1. Difficult 4 man content is important to the game. Dark Brotherhood is not offering more 4 man content, and difficulty needs to remain to keep people interested. Once people complete a dungeon, gear and achievements keep them coming back, but if it is so easy they do all of that in a month, interest lost. Without replacing the hole created by taking that difficulty away, you will lose people.
2. Difficult raids are good, but often there is not enough people to get a raid together, leaving 4 man dungeons the main source of group content. There has to be difficult 4 man content for people who enjoy it.
3. THIS IS IMPERIAL CITY! This is the focus of Tamriel right now. If anything should be the hardest mass of daedric power, it is here. This should be hard no matter what!

Please save these dungeons. There is no reason for is to lose this content, and decreasing the difficulty to the point where it can be done by two people (yes, that is possible in the PTS) will mean losing it.

Kyle_Rennison

I agree with this post and zenimax we would rreally like to know why the difficulty has been lowered?

Magdalina

Kyle_Rennison wrote: »

I agree with this post and zenimax we would rreally like to know why the difficulty has been lowered?

Because they were unhappy with the dungeon completion rates apparently.

You know, all those people hard casting frags while standing in reds and using Impulse for single target aoe must've been having issues...or maybe it was just people farming first WGT boss skewing up their numbers>.>

lassitershawn

Magdalina wrote: »

Kyle_Rennison wrote: »

I agree with this post and zenimax we would rreally like to know why the difficulty has been lowered?

Because they were unhappy with the dungeon completion rates apparently.

You know, all those people hard casting frags while standing in reds and using Impulse for single target aoe must've been having issues...or maybe it was just people farming first WGT boss skewing up their numbers>.>

That is a very good point. Also, despite being able to complete vWGT and vICP with extreme ease, I've dropped the pledge quest a few times because I forget to do it and don't want to harass my friends to do it the day after.

I could write a small novel about how these dungeons should not be nerfed but basically my thoughts are this... IF YOU ARE NOT GOING TO INTRODUCE NEW ENDGAME CONTENT OF A CERTAIN TYPE, BE IT SOLO, 12 MAN, OR 4 MAN, THEN THE DIFFICULTY OF CURRENT TOP-LEVEL CONTENT OF THAT TYPE SHOULD NOT BE NERFED. Basically, if they'd made an uber hard veteran Vaults of Madness with a badass new monster helm and a gear set or two, I wouldn't give a *** if they nerf vWGT and vICP into the ground.

Erraln

lassitershawn wrote: »

I could write a small novel about how these dungeons should not be nerfed but basically my thoughts are this... IF YOU ARE NOT GOING TO INTRODUCE NEW ENDGAME CONTENT OF A CERTAIN TYPE, BE IT SOLO, 12 MAN, OR 4 MAN, THEN THE DIFFICULTY OF CURRENT TOP-LEVEL CONTENT OF THAT TYPE SHOULD NOT BE NERFED.

They did. It's called Maw of Lorkhaj and Sanctum Ophidia.

They make content with the intention of it getting played, and the general community feeling for ICP/WGT coming up on the pledge rotation can be summarized as 'forget that'. Have you ever done a group finder vICP attempt? It's not likely to meet success. I do find the current challenge rating entertaining, and will likely find it less so after the update. But I also greatly appreciate that, seven months after its release, they've eased clears and increased drops on these dungeons. Half a year has been plenty of time for the driven to conquer it.

lassitershawn

Erraln wrote: »

lassitershawn wrote: »

I could write a small novel about how these dungeons should not be nerfed but basically my thoughts are this... IF YOU ARE NOT GOING TO INTRODUCE NEW ENDGAME CONTENT OF A CERTAIN TYPE, BE IT SOLO, 12 MAN, OR 4 MAN, THEN THE DIFFICULTY OF CURRENT TOP-LEVEL CONTENT OF THAT TYPE SHOULD NOT BE NERFED.

They did. It's called Maw of Lorkhaj and Sanctum Ophidia.

They make content with the intention of it getting played, and the general community feeling for ICP/WGT coming up on the pledge rotation can be summarized as 'forget that'. Have you ever done a group finder vICP attempt? It's not likely to meet success. I do find the current challenge rating entertaining, and will likely find it less so after the update. But I also greatly appreciate that, seven months after its release, they've eased clears and increased drops on these dungeons. Half a year has been plenty of time for the driven to conquer it.

I meant if they aren't making new 4 man content, then they shouldn't nerf the old 4 man content. vMoL and vSO are great, but they are not 4 man content. After this nerf there will be no "challenging" 4 man content left in the game, and that is a huge issue for a LOT of players, for whom 4 man dungeons are the best kind of PvE.

I'm going to explain here why I think complaints about it are invalid.

1: I can't complete with group finder - Join a guild, if anyone needs a guild where you will be able to find members that can clear vICP and vWGT with ease, shoot me a message. Most of us run multiple times per pledge day to get different toons through.
2: The l33ts don't want to run it with new people and will not teach them - My entire friends list can clear vICP and vWGT with ease, and I'm pretty sure 99% of us would train any new player who was willing to learn and improve (many players aren't, and react in a very volatile manner when you politely suggest improvements to their build, gear, or gameplay). Secondly, the first groups to clear these had nobody to teach them. We formed our own groups of like-minded individuals and practiced, cleared, and farmed. There should be no entitlement to be taught.
3: You need 501 CP and all gold gear to clear #rage My group I learned these dungeons with had them down very fast and none of us had above 350 CP at the time (350 CP is cake to get now), and we all had mostly v14 gear. This was before the original nerfs mind you.

The-Baconator

Erraln wrote: »

lassitershawn wrote: »

I could write a small novel about how these dungeons should not be nerfed but basically my thoughts are this... IF YOU ARE NOT GOING TO INTRODUCE NEW ENDGAME CONTENT OF A CERTAIN TYPE, BE IT SOLO, 12 MAN, OR 4 MAN, THEN THE DIFFICULTY OF CURRENT TOP-LEVEL CONTENT OF THAT TYPE SHOULD NOT BE NERFED.

They did. It's called Maw of Lorkhaj and Sanctum Ophidia.

They make content with the intention of it getting played, and the general community feeling for ICP/WGT coming up on the pledge rotation can be summarized as 'forget that'. Have you ever done a group finder vICP attempt? It's not likely to meet success. I do find the current challenge rating entertaining, and will likely find it less so after the update. But I also greatly appreciate that, seven months after its release, they've eased clears and increased drops on these dungeons. Half a year has been plenty of time for the driven to conquer it.

Maw of Lorkhaj and Sanctum are literally designed for hardcore raid guilds and Maw is 100000X harder than WGT or prison (can't speak for the new sanctum as a console play ofc). The problem with the change--and this is coming from a PvPer not some super hardcore Pver--is that vWGT and vICP weren't really "elite" level content. It was a nice stepping stone that demands decent situation awareness, coordination, and dps. I wouldn't be able to take a couple pugs or people from my PvP guild running PvP builds, Vicious Death with more than +1500 recov, and absolutely steamroll it if it was literally top level content. Yes I'm sure some people were struggling and couldn't complete the content, but so what if you couldn't complete two of almost a dozen vet dungeons? It gives you something to challenge yourself with and improve as a player. It may not keep you playing the game today or tomorrow, but it may provide you with something that you'll find interesting and engaging a month or two months from now.