Why Magic Sorc is no longer fun

RinaldoGandolphi

Dear Zenimax:

When i played this game in the beta, and decided to buy the game and sub for early access, I chose the Magic Sorc class for the following reasons:

1. The class was highly mobile(Bolt Escape and Boundless Storm)
2. The class was the closest thing this game had to a mage caster archetype
3. The Entire class just screamed "Be a crafty mage of TES Lore"

Prior to 1.6 to 1.7 the class was exactly this. This classes entire style was:

High Mobility and Moderate ranged damage kiting mage...if anyone got close enough to stab you with a blade you wouldn't last long, so you used mobility to make up for this weakness. The class took a certain skillset to play this way, but it was very very fun. (not talking about the Negate wars as this is not what this post is about)

Over the course of many patches, Sorcs had their Bolt Escape nerfed 7 times to the point that Ball of Lighting is just useless, Streak si only good for being on the offense in melee range(which is the anti-thesis of being a ranged mage caster) which has brought us full circle to what we have today.

My magic Sorc is the most boring thing on the planet to play. All our fun mobility has been taken away and replaced with:

1. Face tank damage with shields
2. Cast Mines
3. Camp Mines
4. Spam Crushy Shock, Overload, whatever it is you want
5. Face tank an extreme amount of damage with Damage Shields and a huge mana pool.

No sense in running away or even trying to kite, as using Bolt Escape punishes you while the gap closing spam can push one button without penalty. The nerf to Major Exepedition render Boundless Storm useless for magic Sorcs because we have hardy any stam to sprint so the 10% added to sprint we can't use....

In essence they have transformed the Sorc into a ranged magic tank, and in doing so it is the most boring class in the game to play.

If i want the mobility and fun the Magic Sorc used to have(which is why i rolled a Magic Sorc) i guess i have to level a Stam Sorc.

Sure Stam Sorc isn't a top tier class, infact i will be disadvantaged against most other classes, im sure i'll die A LOT...but you know what...atleast i'll be able to run around the battlefield and be mobile, atleast i'll be able to kite, atleast it will be fun....Spamming Wrecking Blow, Crushing Shock...bleh same thing...

i'd rather kite, dodge roll, and sprint around at a fast speed and try to out position my opponents instead of Camping Mines spamming Force Pulse/Overload.

Sorc = Turret Class...the most boring thing on the planet, Ezareth definitly had this right...guess if i want a highly mobile fun class i'll be forced to roll either a Stam Blade or a Stam Sorc...pretty sad Stam Sorc is faster and more mobile then magic Sorc...the mobile spec i wanted to play in this game is now done better on a stam Sorc then a magic Sorc...considering Magic Sorc was billed and sold on being a mobile class is pretty sad....I find stacking sheilds and such as boring...

so i guess im probably going to roll a Stam Sorc...it will atleast be more fun....

Bone_Demon

I'm sorry but what is missing from your spell arsenal as a magicka sorc? Or is this yet another thread about streak mana cost?

Bfish22090

you decide to play your sorc that way

RinaldoGandolphi

All the mobility I liked from the class at the start of the game back in 2014

Hardened Ward wasn't the tank skill it is now because soft caps prevented you from getting a magic pool high enough to have such a shield and there was no Bastion CP to make it so large

The class instead relied on mobility. I don't find face tanking damage on a shield fun

Just my Stam nightblade on BB is far more mobile then my magic sorc who really is just a magic tank nowadays.

Id gladly trade a nerf to Ward for mobility back

RinaldoGandolphi

Bfish22090 wrote: »

you decide to play your sorc that way

There is no other way to play it

Even watch German you find a tree, rock, Drop mines and dps and LOS your enemies and kill them.

Then go watch some videos of Ezareth where you bolt away use LOS and terrain to split apart and range your targets

Doing it EZ style is no longer viable do to the bolt nerfs so kiting us no longer possible and the root/snare on gap closers added later on make it not feasible

I don't find the mine camping play style fun at all. This is just my thoughts...Stam sorc is what magic sorc used to be in the mobility department the fastest mobile spec in the game is a Stam sorc or nightblade

Birdovic

Well yeah, Mobility is something I also miss.

Streak range got nerfed, streaking multiple times got nerfed (for a good reason tho).
I'd say a gap closer is more useful, better range and no additive cost increase..

Also having major expedition granting only 30% instead of 40% is another overall mobility hit.


For mobility you should really try a Stam Sorc, I made one and its pretty fun (fast etc).

Burning_Talons

So you cant run away from the fight?

Welcome to the DK, and Temllars Lifestyle

Emma_Overload

Agreed, but OP forgot to mention how all the overpowered snares and roots make the kiting playstyle pretty much impossible. There needs to be a cheap, effective counter to these things that works for magic users.

RinaldoGandolphi

It's not about running away it's about mobility and positioning

My DK actually was pretty good as long as I was more careful with position

My Templar is very strong and does well and is more fun to play

As it is now they have gutted everything that was fun about Sorcs

Go back and look at Ezareths vids you won't see him stacking shields and camping mined to kill people but you will see him zipping around the field and Overloading people in the face kiting at range

I just don't find what magic sorc has become as fun anymore...I guess if I want a mobile class I either roll a Stam sorc or a nightblade

cschwingeb14_ESO

The sorc class has not really changed that much, it's the easy access that everyone has to charge and high % snare abilities. Stampede and lotus fan in particular. IMO these incidental snare morphs should be more like 30-40%snares and only dedicated snares like cripple should have a high %

Shuffle has a cost that makes it unviable for magicka.

Give boundless storm snare removal (no immunity) would fix a lot. But the ability is already plenty good, so I don't see that happening.

How about changing BoL to having no stuns or absorbing abilities, but just removed snares. Still OP

I bet if ZOS tried to run with this ability, we'd get something like: fully heavy attacking your pet and killing it yourself removes snares from you

RinaldoGandolphi

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Agreed, but OP forgot to mention how all the overpowered snares and roots make the kiting playstyle pretty much impossible. There needs to be a cheap, effective counter to these things that works for magic users.

Its more then just that though. Sure the snares are annoying and really OP, but this is what we have lost as Sorc's

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJu1KLm-VR0

You watch that video, there really isn't a lot of Shield Stacking going on there..Annulment worked a bit differently back then, but look at the mobility...he wasn't standing their shield stacking damage from multiple people, he was flat out out kiting and out positioning them and setting them up to be Overloaded.

I wonder how many know Power Overload used to give a 15% damage bonus, now it gives 6% and they slowed down how fast you can launch the attacks...another in the long line of huge nerfs.

Compare this to German's most recent video


http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/261334/german-solo-sorcerer-pvp-1vx

the two styles of Sorc (then and now) couldn't be more different. Please underatand, I think German right now is the best overall Sorc player in PC NA, this is just using it as an example of how the Sorc class itself has changed. The classic Magic Sorc kiting play style is dead, its replaced by Camping Mines and ranged DPS, instead of avoiding damage via mobility you avoid it by stacking shields, and casting Mines around a rock, tree, etc...I don't find this fun at all and its not the reason i chose to play a Sorc back in 2014.

Back in 2014 if you could close melee distance with a Sorc he was dead meat...you never heard folks complaining about the Sorc face tanking damage with Ward, the complaints were with him being mobile.

the Sorc i played was mobile as could be and could hit decently but was Squishy....

I wanted to play the Squishy Mobile Caster, and the Sorc was that caster until they introduced the CS, and nerfed all the mobility skills..now the magic Sorc is the most tanky class in PVP(thanks to shields) Less mobile then a Stam Sorc, Stam Nightblade, etc.

I just don't find what magic Sorc has become as fun anymore...the class has changed a lot...if you want a fast mobile class you have to roll something else it seems, im just bummed about it thats all.....i'll get over it

Reverb

I love my sorc, I have more fun playing her than any other toon recently.

Reading your post though, I have to acknowledge that I like face tanking. I use streak and boundless for mobility sparingly and in pvp only. After maining a DK and a Templar, I'm accustomed to not being mobile. The sorc's current state may feel gimped to you, but still feels like a kiting, streaking powerhouse compared to what I'm used to.

olsborg

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Agreed, but OP forgot to mention how all the overpowered snares and roots make the kiting playstyle pretty much impossible. There needs to be a cheap, effective counter to these things that works for magic users.

Its more then just that though. Sure the snares are annoying and really OP, but this is what we have lost as Sorc's

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJu1KLm-VR0

You watch that video, there really isn't a lot of Shield Stacking going on there..Annulment worked a bit differently back then, but look at the mobility...he wasn't standing their shield stacking damage from multiple people, he was flat out out kiting and out positioning them and setting them up to be Overloaded.

I wonder how many know Power Overload used to give a 15% damage bonus, now it gives 6% and they slowed down how fast you can launch the attacks...another in the long line of huge nerfs.

Compare this to German's most recent video


http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/261334/german-solo-sorcerer-pvp-1vx

the two styles of Sorc (then and now) couldn't be more different. Please underatand, I think German right now is the best overall Sorc player in PC NA, this is just using it as an example of how the Sorc class itself has changed. The classic Magic Sorc kiting play style is dead, its replaced by Camping Mines and ranged DPS, instead of avoiding damage via mobility you avoid it by stacking shields, and casting Mines around a rock, tree, etc...I don't find this fun at all and its not the reason i chose to play a Sorc back in 2014.

Back in 2014 if you could close melee distance with a Sorc he was dead meat...you never heard folks complaining about the Sorc face tanking damage with Ward, the complaints were with him being mobile.

the Sorc i played was mobile as could be and could hit decently but was Squishy....

I wanted to play the Squishy Mobile Caster, and the Sorc was that caster until they introduced the CS, and nerfed all the mobility skills..now the magic Sorc is the most tanky class in PVP(thanks to shields) Less mobile then a Stam Sorc, Stam Nightblade, etc.

I just don't find what magic Sorc has become as fun anymore...the class has changed a lot...if you want a fast mobile class you have to roll something else it seems, im just bummed about it thats all.....i'll get over it

I miss that tab targeting. And yes, sorc isnt much fun to solo anymore, hense why I play nb now..

Lokey0024

@RinaldoGandolphi you realise that vid you posted is spec being strait up over powered and unkillable, right? He could bolt escape from southern morrowind gate to arris keep without stopping

Birdovic

Lokey0024 wrote: »

@RinaldoGandolphi you realise that vid you posted is spec being strait up over powered and unkillable, right? He could bolt escape from southern morrowind gate to arris keep without stopping

Dont forget to mention he can streak into every daedric prince' realm, too!
Thats sooo OP....

cschwingeb14_ESO

You're forgetting how OP magicka harness was (a magicka fountain when stacked properly), and how gimped stamina was. Physical damage was a joke outside of snipe from stealth (WB had a huge cast time) So most of the danger from charge abilities was invasion.

I agree that mobility is down, but it's mostly that the anti kiting tools are better.

aLi3nZ

I agree partly with Op. I started playing when ic was released so I never knew what it was like to have streak not stack. sourc still has decent mobility if you use pots and drink for higher regen and it's a pretty powerful and fun class but I did become bored with it, especially in cyrodil where the lag gets to me more when I play sorc compared to nightblade.

. I have a stam sorc as well and sure the mobility is good but the limited skills avalible make it pretty boring imo, although turning ware wolf and using ware skills is fun and very powerful. I use mostly Magika nightblade arm which can be a great ranged caster and has great mobility. I wear 6x light and 1 heavy and I slot purge to remove snares and marks and for higher regen. Cloak+double take with light armour and concealed weapon slotted is basically moving as fast as you do with Rapids and you are also invisible. The only thing with Magika nightblade is that it seems OP and cheap with the right gear which can also get boring.

Kas

my mag sorc is my most mobile char - by far. streak is still awesome, you just cannot steak into the sunset anymore. While gap closers f*** you up open field, as soon as there are either other players to streak through or obstacles to LoS, I can still lose almost all chasing enemies.

Sure, it's not as strong as it used to be. But just compare mobility to mag templar/dk... In my personal opinion I even find the mobility greater than those of all stam build and thus the highest in the game, still

KundaliniHero

Dont worry ZOS is putting sorcs to bed as best they can with the upcoming DB patch changes so you dont have to worry about the glory days since stamina is now the new meta.

Solariken

I agree, OP - the old sorc meta was way more fun to play AND fight against.

Currently, fighting a sorc is painfully long and tedious because you pretty much have to wait for them to make a fatal mistake or run out of stamina. I'm hoping the DB changes will be a step back toward the kiting meta since shield-stacking itself should be more tedious and more likely to burn through the sorc's magicka.

Lucky28

Solariken wrote: »

I agree, OP - the old sorc meta was way more fun to play AND fight against.

Currently, fighting a sorc is painfully long and tedious because you pretty much have to wait for them to make a fatal mistake or run out of stamina. I'm hoping the DB changes will be a step back toward the kiting meta since shield-stacking itself should be more tedious and more likely to burn through the sorc's magicka.

how would it be a step back into the kiting meta when we can't kite anymore?. i mean i agree with the OP, but the kiting meta is gone and it's not coming back unless they un-nerf streak. Streak is still worse for resources then shields would be

Rakshat

Every time I see a sorc with shields covering 90% of their health, I just go the other direction as I know how boring the fight is gonna be.
They should have made bolt escape range decrease with each cast instead.

RinaldoGandolphi

Yup

They should have decreased Ward's Value some and left Streak and Boundless Storm alone. In essence they have butchered what made the class fun and unique(squishy but fast) and replaced with with an OP shield stacking meta that has nown been crushed into the dirt with a sledge hammer.

I will always look back and smile on the days of Ball of Lighting around Cyrodiil(i used BOL exclusively from launch until until Wrothgar) getting people to follow my shiny balls and then Overloading them in the face while they were probably enthralled by the brighttness of the balls of glowing lighting lol

Man it was so much fun. Sure if you got caught you were done, but as a famous man once said:

"There's many a slip 'twixt the cup and the lip"

Maybe one day it can be revisted, for now my Sorc is mostly a crafter, occasional dungeon runner. My underpowered Orc Stam Sorc will be my next adventure, atleast he will have some of the mobility i miss from the 2014 Sorc....

Mayrael

I must agree with OP. Magic Sorc was my first class and i used to love it... Used to because after BE cost nerf, sorc became indistinct, some damage, some shields and nothing special. I havent played ESO for almost a year, i think about returning but for sure not as a mSorc...

Edit:
@Burning_Talons but DK and Temp was never ment to bo mobile, some picked them because they should be tanky and they are, some picked NB cause of its sneaky nature and they are not disapointed, we picked sorc cause of his mobility and we are screwed (yeah sorc is strong but as OP said, we would trade sorc shields for the mobility we had).

DEATHquidox

andypappb16_ESO wrote: »

Well yeah, Mobility is something I also miss.

Streak range got nerfed, streaking multiple times got nerfed (for a good reason tho).
I'd say a gap closer is more useful, better range and no additive cost increase..

Also having major expedition granting only 30% instead of 40% is another overall mobility hit.


For mobility you should really try a Stam Sorc, I made one and its pretty fun (fast etc).

Problem with that is j don't Want to reget all my gear for abother sorc I'm sick of getting gear it's the longestimate stretch why can't we have our old game back no one complained about all the skills and fights lasted a good bit and you had a time to react and everyone was mad about sorcs dashing around and crap and just taking off and they follow and die that's what I loved about this game and it's making me loose in treat trying to work so hard for some gear to make me good I don't want that grab age I just wanna play my game with some friends and fight some other people and crap

Wreuntzylla

Lokey0024 wrote: »

@RinaldoGandolphi you realise that vid you posted is spec being strait up over powered and unkillable, right? He could bolt escape from southern morrowind gate to arris keep without stopping

Of course he does. You really think this thread is about a loss of mobility and not a decline in sorc dominance?

["Kas;2914374"]my mag sorc is my most mobile char - by far. streak is still awesome, you just cannot steak into the sunset anymore. While gap closers f*** you up open field, as soon as there are either other players to streak through or obstacles to LoS, I can still lose almost all chasing enemies.

Sure, it's not as strong as it used to be. But just compare mobility to mag templar/dk... In my personal opinion I even find the mobility greater than those of all stam build and thus the highest in the game, still[/quote]

My sorc can still streak into the sunset. Not with 4.5k spell power anymore, though...

RinaldoGandolphi

Sorc dominance? LOL!!!!!!!!!!

The thread is about trading stupid shields for the ability to move and folks equate it to that?

pft.....

Emma_Overload

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Agreed, but OP forgot to mention how all the overpowered snares and roots make the kiting playstyle pretty much impossible. There needs to be a cheap, effective counter to these things that works for magic users.

Its more then just that though. Sure the snares are annoying and really OP, but this is what we have lost as Sorc's

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJu1KLm-VR0

You watch that video, there really isn't a lot of Shield Stacking going on there..Annulment worked a bit differently back then, but look at the mobility...he wasn't standing their shield stacking damage from multiple people, he was flat out out kiting and out positioning them and setting them up to be Overloaded.

I wonder how many know Power Overload used to give a 15% damage bonus, now it gives 6% and they slowed down how fast you can launch the attacks...another in the long line of huge nerfs.

Compare this to German's most recent video


http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/261334/german-solo-sorcerer-pvp-1vx

the two styles of Sorc (then and now) couldn't be more different. Please underatand, I think German right now is the best overall Sorc player in PC NA, this is just using it as an example of how the Sorc class itself has changed. The classic Magic Sorc kiting play style is dead, its replaced by Camping Mines and ranged DPS, instead of avoiding damage via mobility you avoid it by stacking shields, and casting Mines around a rock, tree, etc...I don't find this fun at all and its not the reason i chose to play a Sorc back in 2014.

Back in 2014 if you could close melee distance with a Sorc he was dead meat...you never heard folks complaining about the Sorc face tanking damage with Ward, the complaints were with him being mobile.

the Sorc i played was mobile as could be and could hit decently but was Squishy....

I wanted to play the Squishy Mobile Caster, and the Sorc was that caster until they introduced the CS, and nerfed all the mobility skills..now the magic Sorc is the most tanky class in PVP(thanks to shields) Less mobile then a Stam Sorc, Stam Nightblade, etc.

I just don't find what magic Sorc has become as fun anymore...the class has changed a lot...if you want a fast mobile class you have to roll something else it seems, im just bummed about it thats all.....i'll get over it

I forgot how high people stacked health back then. Do you still play with relatively high health? I usually have 21 or 22K in PvP these days.

RinaldoGandolphi

Right around 25k in Cyrodiil usually but I opted for healthy jewels. In pve depending on what your doing you can be one shot below 20k health so I tend to stay around that number. As I don't just pvp exclusively and I like not being forced to run a shield just to do a dungeon, this is just my personal preference though, mileage my vary

Wreuntzylla

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

Sorc dominance? LOL!!!!!!!!!!

The thread is about trading stupid shields for the ability to move and folks equate it to that?

pft.....

Pretty much. My sorc was practically impossible to kill prior to the streak nerfs. The ability to escape, reposition, control initiation, and bail-regen-return...

You say a special skill set? The problem with the sorc class in general was that even a mediocre player could perform well. The class was (and still is to a certain degree) incredibly tolerant of mistakes.

Every sorc pines for the days of unlimited mobility. It was OP... The only patch I really thought went to far was the gap closer immobilize.