magick templar optimization request for advice

Baconlad

Hey ladies and gents, I have some questions for you theory crafters out there regarding a "better" build for my nord magick templar.
. currently I have five kagrenacs armor infused and divines big/small, three willpower all spell power, two torugs swords precise, and one molag kena divines shoulder. My helm is currently flex, have a torugs pact piece there now.
. I'm looking to up my game, and become a bit more competitive, mainly a dueling build or 1v1 build. I have doing a lot of thinking about changing my mundus to thief or shadow, changing my swords to nirnhoned, and picking up a molag kena helm. Also thinking of changing kagrenacs to Julianos for more raw spell power and crit.

basically wanting a little assistance on whether or not spell penetration is better than crit for my swords in pvp. Whether divines x4 is that much worse than impen. And if crit damage, and crit % is that much better or worse that penetration. Thanks for tips!

Baconlad

Ah also magick regen is RARELY an issue for me, I have leet resource management skills, magick regen is currently 900. Not too worried about though. My max magic is 37k, health 29k (max resource food, torugs three piece, kagrenacs four piece and I'm a nord...so health is not intentional XD)

Alorier

Wow 29k health is this outside of Croydil

Baconlad

All inside of cyrodil, cyrodil to me is "real" stats XD

Enraged_Tiki_Torch

Shields can NOT be crit and they have NO Armor/Spell Resistance. Still nirnhoned is the best trait for swords.

I run 2 piece Magnus, 4 piece Mara, and 1 Kena for armor. Dual Magnus Swords and a backbar Mara Resto. 3 Willpower with spell power enchants.

Mara and Magnus give 2 Magicka, 2 Magicka Regen, and 2 Spell Power bonuses.

The extra Max Magicka makes up for the lower spell damage from Julianos to some degree. I like the extra Regen...

If I want more Spell Power, I switch out Mara for 5 piece Alchemist.

Twice born for PvE, Kags for group PvP.

Baconlad

Don't need the regen, I understand that shields can't be crit on, which is why I started crafting nirn swords. Hopefully well see...

KundaliniHero

I have two Magika Templars, but PVP with my Breton most.

I run Julianos + Willpower + Molag Kena or Engine Guardian + Vampire
Spell Damage 3500 +

Bar #1 - Sword & Board
Puncturing Sweeps
Reverberating Bash
Radiant Magelight
Radiant Oppression
Toppling Charge
Ultimate: Devouring Swarm

Bar #2 - Resto
Harness Magicka
Breath of Life
Healing Ward
Unstable Core
Proxy Det
Ultimate: Dawnbreaker of Smite

Baconlad

So are you basically saying that crit is NOT as important as spell power and penetration? It would seem that its not as important, seeing how the meta is currently impen, but most players I run across do not have impen. Hitting a player for 16k dark flare is really common for me. So I should deff go with nirn torugs swords right?

danno8

Baconlad wrote: »

So are you basically saying that crit is NOT as important as spell power and penetration? It would seem that its not as important, seeing how the meta is currently impen, but most players I run across do not have impen. Hitting a player for 16k dark flare is really common for me. So I should deff go with nirn torugs swords right?

Remember that the "meta" is only easily accessible for people who play the game for many hours everyday.

Most people are far more casual than that so you will still run across many people who don't have impenetrable on all their gear.

I'm working towards mine but I still have very little impen cause it takes me a long time to get enough mats/gear/gold tempers to finish pieces. It's made even longer by the fact that I would prefer to PvP in less optimal gear, than PvE at all, lol.

KundaliniHero

Baconlad wrote: »

So are you basically saying that crit is NOT as important as spell power and penetration? It would seem that its not as important, seeing how the meta is currently impen, but most players I run across do not have impen. Hitting a player for 16k dark flare is really common for me. So I should deff go with nirn torugs swords right?

In regards to your spell penetration question I think @asayre has answered this debate already - so to make it brief Elf Born is limited to how it calculates raw increases so your left with tiers, something like 31, 48, 58 to get the added benefit where as any figures in between these numbers are considered wasted points. In regards to Spell penetration the increase is modest, I think the sweet spot for me is 11 based upon his calculations which you can find in this thread: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/215008/elfborn-vs-spell-erosion.

I stack spell damage and my crit naturally lands at 58% (last time I checked) this of course includes Thief Mundus. As far as impen gear goes I can take it or leave it, dont get me wrong it definitely gives you some staying power but Radiant Magelight already gives you some built in protection from crit albeit stealth. For 1v1 and small scale the setup I listed above has served me really well due to Templars glaring mobility issues and lack of control. I tried a ranged build early on but was getting creamed in duels.

AfkNinja

KundaliniHero wrote: »

I have two Magika Templars, but PVP with my Breton most.

I run Julianos + Willpower + Molag Kena or Engine Guardian + Vampire
Spell Damage 3500 +

Bar #1 - Sword & Board
Puncturing Sweeps
Reverberating Bash
Radiant Magelight
Radiant Oppression
Toppling Charge
Ultimate: Devouring Swarm

Bar #2 - Resto
Harness Magicka
Breath of Life
Healing Ward
Unstable Core
Proxy Det
Ultimate: Dawnbreaker of Smite

No purge? or Rune? For real? You willingly give up +25% healing? May I ask why?

WillhelmBlack

If you're up for something new try Benzyboy's build. You'll find it on YouTube. Don't forget to subscribe, he has more content planned.

Enraged_Tiki_Torch

If your building for duels then most players are going to have the best gear they can get. Usually Impent, except Sorcs. I say prepare to beat the best, and you may. If you only prepare to beat the average, you'll never beat the best.

Crit is still good even with Impent everywhere. I just like more Regen, Spell Power and Max Magicka, Crit is just what I am willing to give up for that. I also ran Immovability pots and they don't come in magicka so I end up trading the extra regen from a potion for mobility. Hence, I need the regen elsewhere (in this case; gear).

Lexxypwns

Baconlad wrote: »

Hey ladies and gents, I have some questions for you theory crafters out there regarding a "better" build for my nord magick templar.
. currently I have five kagrenacs armor infused and divines big/small, three willpower all spell power, two torugs swords precise, and one molag kena divines shoulder. My helm is currently flex, have a torugs pact piece there now.
. I'm looking to up my game, and become a bit more competitive, mainly a dueling build or 1v1 build. I have doing a lot of thinking about changing my mundus to thief or shadow, changing my swords to nirnhoned, and picking up a molag kena helm. Also thinking of changing kagrenacs to Julianos for more raw spell power and crit.

basically wanting a little assistance on whether or not spell penetration is better than crit for my swords in pvp. Whether divines x4 is that much worse than impen. And if crit damage, and crit % is that much better or worse that penetration. Thanks for tips!

I think you're running an ok setup, maybe run bloodspawn helm for the stam regen, to give you a bit more balance, since in duels you won't have access to repentance for sustain. Penetration > crit chance for pvp, at least dueling, or fighting any competent, well built opponent. Impen is currently BiS and nearly required for all builds outside magika sorc if you want any sort of survivability.

Baconlad

Ok sweet! So that covers the weapons, crafting two nirnhoned swords. But what about the gear? You still think I should worry about swapping my already crafted kagrenacs for Julianos? I feel like the crit is wasted on Julianos, also that rez speed is extremely handy for when I'm running small team, which is at least half the time. What D yall think about gear?

Baconlad

BTW thank for all the answers, this is great

danno8

Baconlad wrote: »

Ok sweet! So that covers the weapons, crafting two nirnhoned swords. But what about the gear? You still think I should worry about swapping my already crafted kagrenacs for Julianos? I feel like the crit is wasted on Julianos, also that rez speed is extremely handy for when I'm running small team, which is at least half the time. What D yall think about gear?

I'm on the fence about my Krag's now.

Not only is it a little slower than before thanks to the change to multiplicative stacking in U9, but also now that forward camps are everywhere it feels like rez speed isn't as needed as it used to be.

Enraged_Tiki_Torch

I like it especially when defending a siege. Being able to rez faster and still put out decent damage in nice in those cases. Depends on how you play. Good set

Karamis_Vimardon

Enraged_Tiki_Torch wrote: »

If your building for duels then most players are going to have the best gear they can get. Usually Impent, except Sorcs. I say prepare to beat the best, and you may. If you only prepare to beat the average, you'll never beat the best.

Crit is still good even with Impent everywhere. I just like more Regen, Spell Power and Max Magicka, Crit is just what I am willing to give up for that. I also ran Immovability pots and they don't come in magicka so I end up trading the extra regen from a potion for mobility. Hence, I need the regen elsewhere (in this case; gear).

You can make Immovable pots w/ magicka: Columbine, Corn Flower, Wormood. Immovable, Detection, Magicka.

Great for ruining NB tactics.

leepalmer95

AfkNinja wrote: »

KundaliniHero wrote: »

I have two Magika Templars, but PVP with my Breton most.

I run Julianos + Willpower + Molag Kena or Engine Guardian + Vampire
Spell Damage 3500 +

Bar #1 - Sword & Board
Puncturing Sweeps
Reverberating Bash
Radiant Magelight
Radiant Oppression
Toppling Charge
Ultimate: Devouring Swarm

Bar #2 - Resto
Harness Magicka
Breath of Life
Healing Ward
Unstable Core
Proxy Det
Ultimate: Dawnbreaker of Smite

No purge? or Rune? For real? You willingly give up +25% healing? May I ask why?

Also using rev bash for a cc/heal debuff when templars have flare.

Also like you said rune + ritual is basically half a templar your missing.

Enraged_Tiki_Torch

@Karamis_Vimardon Ahh yeah forget bout those. I use the Immovable + Major Expedition + Stam pots

Karamis_Vimardon

Enraged_Tiki_Torch wrote: »

@Karamis_Vimardon Ahh yeah forget bout those. I use the Immovable + Major Expedition + Stam pots

I keep those handy too. I'm the Batman of K-Hole with my utility belt of potions!

RinaldoGandolphi

@Baconlad

I would say what build you use depends on two factors:

1. What your goals are with your build(tanky, DPS, healing)
2. What your preferred playstyle is (Melee, Ranged, AOE, Single Target, etc)
3. Large group, small group or solo

There are a lot of good builds for Templars, ultimately though your playstyle will decide which build is best for you.

I personally don't like the Biting Jabs/Puncturing Sweep playstyle, I use a Destro/Resto Staff combo and play more of a ranged t DPS caster with more of a focus on defense. It has its pros and cons just like a Sweeps build has. I just prefer it because i feel it gives me more combat options and i also feel its a better set up against Magic Sorcs. Overall, I play better with a defensive setup vs an offensive one...the Desto/Resto Templar is more of defensive caster who can do DPS and pocket heal...he loses a bit from not using Jabs, but he gains ranged damage and more defense due to being able to utilize LOS and ranged attacks.

My Templar is inspired by Divine Cross's Destro/Resto Templar Sun Burst build, that i made a few tweaks to for my own personal style. Its just as viable now as it was, the only things that have really changed are gear choice and health allocation. Remember Templar's are the only class that can convert health into DPS thanks to Blazing Shield...its a consideration to remember while you build your toon. I can get 4.5k hits off my Blazing Shield(in Cyrodiil with damage and shield size reduction) and im not even a health focused build. Add another 3.4k Burning light proc and thats a decent amount of AOE damage.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gt1tOSTN_XI


Also, BenzyBoy has a solid Templar build on his Youtube channell as well if you prefer more of a melee style i would recommend check it out as well.

Redn3ck

Baconlad wrote: »

You still think I should worry about swapping my already crafted kagrenacs for Julianos? I feel like the crit is wasted on Julianos, also that rez speed is extremely handy for when I'm running small team, which is at least half the time. What D yall think about gear?

Crit is never a waste, even with the anti-crit impen trait, it's not possible to mitigate 100% of the bonus damage from criting on someone. I run a high crit Magplar build in PVP (non CP though) and have no real problem handling putting out damage.