Is ESO canon?

Shunravi

exeeter702 wrote: »

KhajitFurTrader wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

And yet, people watch streams of people playing ESO. Not exactly the same thing, but it is still a passive activity that is not actually playing the game.

Maybe I'm too old to get this. If I'm able to play a game, any game, by myself, why in the nine hells would I want to waste my precious time watching others play it (most likely in ways I wouldn't do)? I could just play it, and by doing so, create my own enjoyment. Totally foreign concept these days, I assume...

Sausage wrote: »

ESO should always be part of TES IP, only part, they shouldnt build on it. MMORPG genre isnt even nearly ready for that, but TV-series might be, I'd imagine TV-series followers are way different than Hollywood movie crowd or MMORPG players.

Sorry, you've lost me. MMO genre isn't ready for what? ESO? You propose that TV show enthusiasts are different (how? why? do you have proof?) from fantasy entrepreneurs and thus Elder Scrolls should be made into one? Why? For what purpose?
Doesn't make any sense to me.

All of what that person has said in this thread has not made any sense, you are not alone.

Reading through what 'e said, it seems like they mistook 'cannon' for 'popular' 'profitable' or 'top dog' but i cant be sure.

Elebeth

Shunravi wrote: »

I should make an adedndum to what i was saying about the towers. The barrier to Daedra is through the alessian pact anchored in the white gold which is inactive, and the tower was bals first target and is being chipped away and puled appart in eso rendering it inactive. Also molag bals plan is to consume the mundus in its entirety, so anything about the towers other than how the keep the mundus stable (and perhaps anchored) should be irrelavent from the lore i know. But if you could cite your sources, it would be nice @Lyrebon

Also, @Lyrebon , the Imperial City DLC main quest is all about those barriers. Towers aren't needed/aren't relevant in "Oblivion invasion", the "covenant between gods and men" is. Again, check IC main quest.

Genomic

OK, so the argument is that canon is whatever Zenimax decides to put in the game, as they own the franchise. Sure, technically correct, but technically being canon doesn't mean it's good canon. Frankly I think the lore added in ESO is pretty poorly done compared to other SP ES games, and a lot of concessions (and shortcuts) were made in order to shovel in content on an MMO scale.

DaveMoeDee

Genomic wrote: »

OK, so the argument is that canon is whatever Zenimax decides to put in the game, as they own the franchise. Sure, technically correct, but technically being canon doesn't mean it's good canon. Frankly I think the lore added in ESO is pretty poorly done compared to other SP ES games, and a lot of concessions (and shortcuts) were made in order to shovel in content on an MMO scale.

Yeah, the canon question is settled. It is canon.

But does the canon work, or is it self-contradictory? That is the interesting question.

Shunravi

Genomic wrote: »

OK, so the argument is that canon is whatever Zenimax decides to put in the game, as they own the franchise. Sure, technically correct, but technically being canon doesn't mean it's good canon. Frankly I think the lore added in ESO is pretty poorly done compared to other SP ES games, and a lot of concessions (and shortcuts) were made in order to shovel in content on an MMO scale.

You know, theres a trend with tes game releases. The next one in the series 'always breaks established cannon of the ones before.' Or so the discussions go. Morowind had a big discussion... Then those same arguments will use the previously released game as proof against the next one.

Number_51

Added a good bit to my original post, but for those that don't want to backtrack in the thread...

So, I did find this on the Wikia:

"Because the Towers maintain the barriers between the mortal plane and Oblivion, whenever one is deactivated or destroyed, the barrier weakens.

A Tower can be deactivated in a number of ways. These include the destruction of the Tower, its Stone or by severing the link between the Tower and the Stone that powers it. An example of this is when Emperor Uriel VII was killed during Oblivion. This event temporarily severed the link between White-Gold Tower and its Stone, the Amulet of Kings. This in turn weakened the barriers of the mortal plane and the Oblivion Crisis was the result, as foretold by Nu Hatta."

According to that all it takes is any weakening of the barrier, in other words, one of the towers being deactivated. In that case, the fact that Green Sap Tower, or a part of it (Falinesti), does seem to have gone missing shortly prior to the ESO time period (but returned at some point as it was around in the late Third Era) would allow for Molag Bal's invasion would it not? Isn't there something in game that hints at Molag Bal being the reason Falinesti is missing (he, or his agents, had attacked it prior to it going missing or something)?

Shunravi

Number_51 wrote: »

Added a good bit to my original post, but for those that don't want to backtrack in the thread...

So, I did find this on the Wikia:

"Because the Towers maintain the barriers between the mortal plane and Oblivion, whenever one is deactivated or destroyed, the barrier weakens.

A Tower can be deactivated in a number of ways. These include the destruction of the Tower, its Stone or by severing the link between the Tower and the Stone that powers it. An example of this is when Emperor Uriel VII was killed during Oblivion. This event temporarily severed the link between White-Gold Tower and its Stone, the Amulet of Kings. This in turn weakened the barriers of the mortal plane and the Oblivion Crisis was the result, as foretold by Nu Hatta."

According to that all it takes is any weakening of the barrier, in other words, one of the towers being deactivated. In that case, the fact that Green Sap Tower, or a part of it (Falinesti), does seem to have gone missing shortly prior to the ESO time period (but returned at some point as it was around in the late Third Era) would allow for Molag Bal's invasion would it not? Isn't there something in game that hints at Molag Bal being the reason Falinesti is missing (he, or his agents, had attacked it prior to it going missing or something)?

Oh, yea, almost forgot about green sap. We dont know where it went, so thats a third inactive tower in ESO.

As for the towers, i tend to equate that more with stability, with my point standing that the white gold is the only one stated to specifically prevent incursion, with daedric presence being very prevalent before alessia.

Danikat

Of course ESO is canon. If nothing else Bethesda have said so and they're the ones who get to decide.

I don't even think it would require a Dragonbreak because as far as I remember the only thing that's been said about this time period previously is that it was pretty much chaos - near-constant civil war, no one could keep track of who claimed to be emperor and that's what made it easy (or easier) for Tiber Septim to come along and conquer everyone.

Which isn't all that surprising considering we're something like 1000 years before Skyrim. People don't tend to spend much time discussing the events of 1000 years ago unless they're somehow relevant to the current situation.

Of course there will probably be occasional mentions in TES6, like some new books, but I doubt it will have a big impact.

Tannakaobi wrote: »

Sausage wrote: »

In my opinion, MMORPG cant be cannon atm, wow still holds too strong grib on the genre, its maybe slightly losing it but not even nearly enough. Luckily, we have ES6 coming, well at least thats what I suspect, Bethesda cant fool around, ES6 is safest bet, they need another FO4. I also keep hoping when Game of Thrones is over, ES TV-series replaces it.

I'd happily just scrap Game of Thrones for that, but then I look at The Shannara Chronicles and think... well, it could end up a bit cheesy, It's a fine line with fantasy on the small screen for some reason. Hollywood can make Movie after movie, yet TV series always seem a bit... well, cheap I guess.

Until recently (specifically when Fellowship of the Ring was released) the same seemed to be true of fantasy movies. Until around the same time (when X-Men was released) the same was true of super hero movies. It seemed like it wasn't really possible to get it right (with the exception of some Batman movies), then people finally cracked it and it seems like all it really needs is people who understand the source material and are dedicated to getting it right and a studio who are willing to let them get on with it instead of trying to keep the budget down, simplify the storyline for fear of confusing the normals and shoe-horn in things that will add mainstream appeal.

And if you're using the Shannara Chronicles as an example I think you have to bear in mind that the source material is a bit cheesy. Don't get me wrong it's a good series and I really enjoy it (I'm reading Wards of Faerie at the moment) but it's not the most spectacularly original work and Terry Brooks has a bad habit of 'over-telling' so there's no uncertainty over what's going to happen. (He also has a bad habit of constantly describing wetlands as dead, decaying, miserable places where nothing lives or even goes, but that might only bother me as a biologist.)

Tannakaobi wrote: »

Sausage wrote: »

Tannakaobi wrote: »

Sausage wrote: »

In my opinion, MMORPG cant be cannon atm, wow still holds too strong grib on the genre, its maybe slightly losing it but not even nearly enough. Luckily, we have ES6 coming, well at least thats what I suspect, Bethesda cant fool around, ES6 is safest bet, they need another FO4. I also keep hoping when Game of Thrones is over, ES TV-series replaces it.

I'd happily just scrap Game of Thrones for that, but then I look at The Shannara Chronicles and think... well, it could end up a bit cheesy, It's a fine line with fantasy on the small screen for some reason. Hollywood can make Movie after movie, yet TV series always seem a bit... well, cheap I guess.

I've done my research and average TV-show episode cost 10 mill, Game of Thrones's Episode 6 cost 60 mill, whats very high. How wrong it can go if Bethesda go there with 60+ mill budget, whats pocket money for them.

A movie could be good, It will be interesting to see how this WoW movie is and how successful it is. The Lore in ESO is infinitely better than WoW, but I just have a feeling that it's going to tank which will maybe put off game studios making movies. Not that Blizzard are making it, but you know what I mean.

It's funny really! I watch movies these days and it feels like they have ran out of idea's for stories, yet there are so many great games/books like ESO that would be brilliant. I really want a Waylander movie, which is a David Gemmell novel.

An Elder Scrolls movie could be good. Or it could follow the long tradition of movies based on video games being really, truly appallingly bad (nearly as bad as games based on movies) which has been going on since about the 80's. Even ones which should work. I'm cautiously optimistic about the Warcraft movie because I think if they ignore the game mechanics (both RTS and MMO) and just work with the lore there's a lot of potential there, especially if they make it mainly about Gul'dan and Medivh opening the Dark Portal. But I'm also relieved I get free cinema tickets so at worst I waste a couple of hours of my time, because there's a good chance that's the best I'll be able to say about it.

Same with a TES movie. Or TV show. Ignore the mechanics and just use the setting and the lore and you've got some great potential, but at the same time it would be so easy to get it wrong.

Number_51

Shunravi wrote: »

As for the towers, i tend to equate that more with stability, with my point standing that the white gold is the only one stated to specifically prevent incursion, with daedric presence being very prevalent before alessia.

I completely agree what that as it's pretty much what I picked up on "in game". But, as I said, I'm far from a loremaster and am more then willing to keep an open mind so long as there's interesting discussion to be had.

As far as the original question/topic goes... I've yet to find anything that would convince me ESO is anything other then canon.

mb10

wolfydog wrote: »

mb10 wrote: »

If ANYTHING isn't canon its the joining every guild and serving every daedric prince then owning all the artefacts that people tend to do on normal TES games.

In fairness, well get to that point in ESO eventually!

haha I refuse to let my darker/evil character to use fighter's guild abilities on eso. How can a vampire use dawnbreaker?

I personally enjoy the game a lot more knowing my character is compatible with the TES world XD

Shunravi

Number_51 wrote: »

Shunravi wrote: »

As for the towers, i tend to equate that more with stability, with my point standing that the white gold is the only one stated to specifically prevent incursion, with daedric presence being very prevalent before alessia.

I completely agree what that as it's pretty much what I picked up on "in game". But, as I said, I'm far from a loremaster and am more then willing to keep an open mind so long as there's interesting discussion to be had.

As far as the original question/topic goes... I've yet to find anything that would convince me ESO is anything other then canon.

Yea, i like discussing it. And i hope im not coming across all 'my way or the highway.'

But now im wondering about the tribunal and what vivec and sotha sil are doing... And why almalexia is making the decisions she is... If something is going on with the brass god...

Lyrebon

Elebeth wrote: »

Shunravi wrote: »

I should make an adedndum to what i was saying about the towers. The barrier to Daedra is through the alessian pact anchored in the white gold which is inactive, and the tower was bals first target and is being chipped away and puled appart in eso rendering it inactive. Also molag bals plan is to consume the mundus in its entirety, so anything about the towers other than how the keep the mundus stable (and perhaps anchored) should be irrelavent from the lore i know. But if you could cite your sources, it would be nice @Lyrebon

Also, @Lyrebon , the Imperial City DLC main quest is all about those barriers. Towers aren't needed/aren't relevant in "Oblivion invasion", the "covenant between gods and men" is. Again, check IC main quest.

That doesn't make it canonically correct. Mehrunes Dagon required four Towers to be inactive in order to invade Nirn. Their whole purpose is to prevent Daedric Princes from crossing the barrier, not even covenants between gods and men can dispel their power (they're built by the Aedra and fuelled by Aedric powers).

Shunravi wrote: »

@Lyrebon, Actually, there are two inactive towers in ESO. And of the two i would say the white gold tower is the more important of the two for keeping daedric influence out. And where does it say that all those towers needed to be down for a daedric incursion? Unless i missed something, the towers stabalize the mundus, but only the white gold keeps out daedra.

The jungle is an unfortunate casualty of graphical needs, but that story could easily be a myth to establish Talos legacy. And with how many things are told by the unreliable narator, it very well could be. There are plenty of towns that have been abandoned, then rebuilt using the old name. Cropsford could easily be the same.

Plagarism.

http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/The_Towers

They all create a barrier against Oblivion together.

Point taken on the second paragraph though. The Interregnum did destroy most Imperial records.

Number_51 wrote: »

@Lyrebon I'm honestly interested in your source(s) for this information. You're obviously more well versed on it then I as I don't have more then a passing, in game, knowledge on some of what you said. I had picked up somewhere along the line that the Towers do indeed set hard and fast rules on the physical (and magical?) laws of Mundas, but I don't recall them having anything to do with keeping the daedra from interfering. The destruction of the Towers must proceed the end of the world (a la Skyrim/Alduin's Wall), but isn't it the Dragon Fires that keeps the Daedric Lords from interfering? Didn't Dagon destroy Mournhold just shortly prior to the time period of ESO? Didn't the Oblivion Crisis happen because the Dragon Fires weren't re-lit, just as they aren't lit in this time period? Snow Tower (The Throat of the World) hasn't fallen at the time of the Oblivion Crisis and, to my knowledge, still hasn't at the time of Skyrim. And isn't Direnni Tower still considered to be active?

ETA: So, I did find this on the Wikia:

"Because the Towers maintain the barriers between the mortal plane and Oblivion, whenever one is deactivated or destroyed, the barrier weakens.

A Tower can be deactivated in a number of ways. These include the destruction of the Tower, its Stone or by severing the link between the Tower and the Stone that powers it. An example of this is when Emperor Uriel VII was killed during Oblivion. This event temporarily severed the link between White-Gold Tower and its Stone, the Amulet of Kings. This in turn weakened the barriers of the mortal plane and the Oblivion Crisis was the result, as foretold by Nu Hatta."

According to that all it takes is any weakening of the barrier, in other words, one of the towers being deactivated. In that case the fact that Green Sap Tower, or a part of it (Falinesti), does seem to have gone missing shortly prior to the ESO time period (but returned at some point as it was around in the late Third Era) would allow for Molag Bal's invasion would it not? Isn't there something in game that hints at Molag Bal being the reason Falinesti is missing (he had attacked it prior to it going missing or something)?

The Oblivion Crisis happened because the link between the White-Gold Tower and the Amulet was severed when Emperor Uriel Septim VII was assassinated. It was deactivated due to that and reactivated again when Martin sacrificed himself after the Amulet was destroyed. Each Tower is powered by a "Stone", it can take the form of almost anything; the White-Tower was the Amulet, the Adamantine was the Convention (an event where Akatosh and Auri-El called together the other Aedra to discuss the creation of Mundus and punish Lorkhan for his role in it), the Brass was a giant, walking golem, and the Red Tower was the Heart of Lorkhan.

At the time of the Oblivion Crisis the Tower states should be:

Adamantine (Direnni): active
Walk-Brass: inactive
Crystal Law: destroyed
Falinesti: unknown
Snow Throat: active
White-Gold: inactive
Red Mountain: inactive
Orichalc: destroyed

So it takes the deactivation of five Towers for a Daedric Prince to step into Mundus. During the Second Era we can only confirm that the Orichalc Tower is inactive. Falinesti is unknown but we can assume it's inactive because it doesn't seem to exist in the plane of Mundus at this point, and the White-Gold is deactivated when Vanus tried to use the Amulet to become Dragonborn, or when Sai Sahan sealed it away, I'm unsure which. So only three are inactive during ESO. It took four for Dagon to start the Crisis.

Though I suppose it is possible that by corrupting the Amulet, Mannimarco is able to break the Covenant between Akatosh and Alessia which was established at the Direnni Tower in the Dawn Era, which deactivates all the Towers at once. The Covenant is restored when Abnur Tharn invokes Akatosh's power onto the player as this is also a covenant between man and god.

Elebeth

Lyrebon wrote: »

Mehrunes Dagon required four Towers to be inactive in order to invade Nirn. Their whole purpose is to prevent Daedric Princes from crossing the barrier, not even covenants between gods and men can dispel their power (they're built by the Aedra and fuelled by Aedric powers).

...

The Oblivion Crisis happened because the link between the White-Gold Tower and the Amulet was severed when Emperor Uriel Septim VII was assassinated.

Contradicting yourself?

Also, only Adamantine Tower was (supposedly) made by Aedra/Aedric powers while most of others were mer-made copies.
I firmly believe that "holding the barriers between Mundus and Oblivion" doesn't mean that they prevent incursions between relms, it means they literally hold/prevent Mundus becoming Chaos (loosing Time).

Tower lore is very ambiguous (being MKs construct) and I think that even loremasters at BethSoft/ZoS don't know where or how to proceed with it. That means we are in for some retcons. For better or worse...

And please leave Wikia alone. Here: http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Towers

Shunravi

Lyrebon wrote: »

Though I suppose it is possible that by corrupting the Amulet, Mannimarco is able to break the Covenant between Akatosh and Alessia which was established at the Direnni Tower in the Dawn Era, which deactivates all the Towers at once. The Covenant is restored when Abnur Tharn invokes Akatosh's power onto the player as this is also a covenant between man and god.

It is my opinion that this is exactly what happened (edit:not the simultaneous deactivation part though), but it is not restored by Tharn. In the orsinium dlc (and at the end of the games main quest) it is strongly hinted that there will be further incursions and this time by two princes fighting each other. The barrier is still down as it were. I think they are going for Tiber Septim restores it as a dragonborn during his conquest, though I could be wrong.

Molag Bal is the god of schemes, and I sincerely believe that his plan b was to leave the mundus vulnerable for the other princes.

Also, yes, the towers stand againd oblivion, but They do not wholey keep out daedra without alessias covenant.

And when I'm talking about the white gold the way I am, I'm talking specifically about chim-el adabal as the seal of the alessian covenant.

ShadowHvo

Yes, obviously.

Elebeth

Shunravi wrote: »

Lyrebon wrote: »

Though I suppose it is possible that by corrupting the Amulet, Mannimarco is able to break the Covenant between Akatosh and Alessia which was established at the Direnni Tower in the Dawn Era, which deactivates all the Towers at once. The Covenant is restored when Abnur Tharn invokes Akatosh's power onto the player as this is also a covenant between man and god.

It is my opinion that this is exactly what happened, but it is not restored by Tharn. In the orsinium dlc (and at the end of the games main quest) it is strongly hinted that there will be further incursions and this time by two princes fighting each other. The barrier is still down as it were. I think they are going for Tiber Septim restores it as a dragonborn during his conquest, though I could be wrong.

Molag Bal is the god of schemes, and I sincerely believe that his plan b was to leave the mundus vulnerable for the other princes.

Also, yes, the towers stand againd oblivion, but They do not wholey keep out daedra without alessias covenant.

Thalmor want to deactivate all the Towers in order to "destroy" Time and reboot everything, so I am very skeptical that the Amulet "deactivated all the Towers at once" since that would mean that Time stopped existing; and I doubt that an invasion by a Daedric Prince would be the only repercussion for that. Unless things did reboot and created alternative universe and that's how ZOS will explain existence of Mundus as seen in ESO! xD

Shunravi

Elebeth wrote: »

Shunravi wrote: »

Lyrebon wrote: »

Though I suppose it is possible that by corrupting the Amulet, Mannimarco is able to break the Covenant between Akatosh and Alessia which was established at the Direnni Tower in the Dawn Era, which deactivates all the Towers at once. The Covenant is restored when Abnur Tharn invokes Akatosh's power onto the player as this is also a covenant between man and god.

It is my opinion that this is exactly what happened, but it is not restored by Tharn. In the orsinium dlc (and at the end of the games main quest) it is strongly hinted that there will be further incursions and this time by two princes fighting each other. The barrier is still down as it were. I think they are going for Tiber Septim restores it as a dragonborn during his conquest, though I could be wrong.

Molag Bal is the god of schemes, and I sincerely believe that his plan b was to leave the mundus vulnerable for the other princes.

Also, yes, the towers stand againd oblivion, but They do not wholey keep out daedra without alessias covenant.

Thalmor want to deactivate all the Towers in order to "destroy" Time and reboot everything, so I am very skeptical that the Amulet "deactivated all the Towers at once" since that would mean that Time stopped existing; and I doubt that an invasion by a Daedric Prince would be the only repercussion for that. Unless things did reboot and created alternative universe and that's how ZOS will explain existence of Mundus as seen in ESO! xD

Sorry, yea I should specify that I'm not agreeing in any way with the simultaneous deactivation, bucause as you said, that's a rediculous notion and would destroy time. But I am agreeing with the breach of the covenant. Chim-el adabal (the stone of white gold tower) was used as the symbol of the covenant, and in so doing, it's focal point. I'm saying that breaking the link of that stone breaks the covenant, and in so doing allows for incursion.

The other towers being down during the oblivion crisis was merely a coincidence, as it took breaking white gold for both dagons portals and dagon himself to get through. This is a point I should have been addressing much sooner, but it was the specific breach of the white gold tower that allowed for the oblivion crisis.

Shunravi

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Alessian_Empire
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Amulet_of_Kings

exeeter702

Lyrebon wrote: »

Elebeth wrote: »

Shunravi wrote: »

I should make an adedndum to what i was saying about the towers. The barrier to Daedra is through the alessian pact anchored in the white gold which is inactive, and the tower was bals first target and is being chipped away and puled appart in eso rendering it inactive. Also molag bals plan is to consume the mundus in its entirety, so anything about the towers other than how the keep the mundus stable (and perhaps anchored) should be irrelavent from the lore i know. But if you could cite your sources, it would be nice @Lyrebon

Also, @Lyrebon , the Imperial City DLC main quest is all about those barriers. Towers aren't needed/aren't relevant in "Oblivion invasion", the "covenant between gods and men" is. Again, check IC main quest.

That doesn't make it canonically correct. Mehrunes Dagon required four Towers to be inactive in order to invade Nirn. Their whole purpose is to prevent Daedric Princes from crossing the barrier, not even covenants between gods and men can dispel their power (they're built by the Aedra and fuelled by Aedric powers).

Shunravi wrote: »

@Lyrebon, Actually, there are two inactive towers in ESO. And of the two i would say the white gold tower is the more important of the two for keeping daedric influence out. And where does it say that all those towers needed to be down for a daedric incursion? Unless i missed something, the towers stabalize the mundus, but only the white gold keeps out daedra.

The jungle is an unfortunate casualty of graphical needs, but that story could easily be a myth to establish Talos legacy. And with how many things are told by the unreliable narator, it very well could be. There are plenty of towns that have been abandoned, then rebuilt using the old name. Cropsford could easily be the same.

Plagarism.

http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/The_Towers

They all create a barrier against Oblivion together.

Point taken on the second paragraph though. The Interregnum did destroy most Imperial records.

Number_51 wrote: »

@Lyrebon I'm honestly interested in your source(s) for this information. You're obviously more well versed on it then I as I don't have more then a passing, in game, knowledge on some of what you said. I had picked up somewhere along the line that the Towers do indeed set hard and fast rules on the physical (and magical?) laws of Mundas, but I don't recall them having anything to do with keeping the daedra from interfering. The destruction of the Towers must proceed the end of the world (a la Skyrim/Alduin's Wall), but isn't it the Dragon Fires that keeps the Daedric Lords from interfering? Didn't Dagon destroy Mournhold just shortly prior to the time period of ESO? Didn't the Oblivion Crisis happen because the Dragon Fires weren't re-lit, just as they aren't lit in this time period? Snow Tower (The Throat of the World) hasn't fallen at the time of the Oblivion Crisis and, to my knowledge, still hasn't at the time of Skyrim. And isn't Direnni Tower still considered to be active?

ETA: So, I did find this on the Wikia:

"Because the Towers maintain the barriers between the mortal plane and Oblivion, whenever one is deactivated or destroyed, the barrier weakens.

A Tower can be deactivated in a number of ways. These include the destruction of the Tower, its Stone or by severing the link between the Tower and the Stone that powers it. An example of this is when Emperor Uriel VII was killed during Oblivion. This event temporarily severed the link between White-Gold Tower and its Stone, the Amulet of Kings. This in turn weakened the barriers of the mortal plane and the Oblivion Crisis was the result, as foretold by Nu Hatta."

According to that all it takes is any weakening of the barrier, in other words, one of the towers being deactivated. In that case the fact that Green Sap Tower, or a part of it (Falinesti), does seem to have gone missing shortly prior to the ESO time period (but returned at some point as it was around in the late Third Era) would allow for Molag Bal's invasion would it not? Isn't there something in game that hints at Molag Bal being the reason Falinesti is missing (he had attacked it prior to it going missing or something)?

The Oblivion Crisis happened because the link between the White-Gold Tower and the Amulet was severed when Emperor Uriel Septim VII was assassinated. It was deactivated due to that and reactivated again when Martin sacrificed himself after the Amulet was destroyed. Each Tower is powered by a "Stone", it can take the form of almost anything; the White-Tower was the Amulet, the Adamantine was the Convention (an event where Akatosh and Auri-El called together the other Aedra to discuss the creation of Mundus and punish Lorkhan for his role in it), the Brass was a giant, walking golem, and the Red Tower was the Heart of Lorkhan.

At the time of the Oblivion Crisis the Tower states should be:

Adamantine (Direnni): active
Walk-Brass: inactive
Crystal Law: destroyed
Falinesti: unknown
Snow Throat: active
White-Gold: inactive
Red Mountain: inactive
Orichalc: destroyed

So it takes the deactivation of five Towers for a Daedric Prince to step into Mundus. During the Second Era we can only confirm that the Orichalc Tower is inactive. Falinesti is unknown but we can assume it's inactive because it doesn't seem to exist in the plane of Mundus at this point, and the White-Gold is deactivated when Vanus tried to use the Amulet to become Dragonborn, or when Sai Sahan sealed it away, I'm unsure which. So only three are inactive during ESO. It took four for Dagon to start the Crisis.

Though I suppose it is possible that by corrupting the Amulet, Mannimarco is able to break the Covenant between Akatosh and Alessia which was established at the Direnni Tower in the Dawn Era, which deactivates all the Towers at once. The Covenant is restored when Abnur Tharn invokes Akatosh's power onto the player as this is also a covenant between man and god.

Elebeth wrote: »

Lyrebon wrote: »

Mehrunes Dagon required four Towers to be inactive in order to invade Nirn. Their whole purpose is to prevent Daedric Princes from crossing the barrier, not even covenants between gods and men can dispel their power (they're built by the Aedra and fuelled by Aedric powers).

...

The Oblivion Crisis happened because the link between the White-Gold Tower and the Amulet was severed when Emperor Uriel Septim VII was assassinated.

Contradicting yourself?

Also, only Adamantine Tower was (supposedly) made by Aedra/Aedric powers while most of others were mer-made copies.
I firmly believe that "holding the barriers between Mundus and Oblivion" doesn't mean that they prevent incursions between relms, it means they literally hold/prevent Mundus becoming Chaos (loosing Time).

Tower lore is very ambiguous (being MKs construct) and I think that even loremasters at BethSoft/ZoS don't know where or how to proceed with it. That means we are in for some retcons. For better or worse...

And please leave Wikia alone. Here: http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Towers

Shunravi wrote: »

Lyrebon wrote: »

Though I suppose it is possible that by corrupting the Amulet, Mannimarco is able to break the Covenant between Akatosh and Alessia which was established at the Direnni Tower in the Dawn Era, which deactivates all the Towers at once. The Covenant is restored when Abnur Tharn invokes Akatosh's power onto the player as this is also a covenant between man and god.

It is my opinion that this is exactly what happened (edit:not the simultaneous deactivation part though), but it is not restored by Tharn. In the orsinium dlc (and at the end of the games main quest) it is strongly hinted that there will be further incursions and this time by two princes fighting each other. The barrier is still down as it were. I think they are going for Tiber Septim restores it as a dragonborn during his conquest, though I could be wrong.

Molag Bal is the god of schemes, and I sincerely believe that his plan b was to leave the mundus vulnerable for the other princes.

Also, yes, the towers stand againd oblivion, but They do not wholey keep out daedra without alessias covenant.

And when I'm talking about the white gold the way I am, I'm talking specifically about chim-el adabal as the seal of the alessian covenant.

https://youtu.be/IRsPheErBj8

Shunravi

exeeter702 wrote: »

Lyrebon wrote: »

Elebeth wrote: »

Shunravi wrote: »

I should make an adedndum to what i was saying about the towers. The barrier to Daedra is through the alessian pact anchored in the white gold which is inactive, and the tower was bals first target and is being chipped away and puled appart in eso rendering it inactive. Also molag bals plan is to consume the mundus in its entirety, so anything about the towers other than how the keep the mundus stable (and perhaps anchored) should be irrelavent from the lore i know. But if you could cite your sources, it would be nice @Lyrebon

Also, @Lyrebon , the Imperial City DLC main quest is all about those barriers. Towers aren't needed/aren't relevant in "Oblivion invasion", the "covenant between gods and men" is. Again, check IC main quest.

That doesn't make it canonically correct. Mehrunes Dagon required four Towers to be inactive in order to invade Nirn. Their whole purpose is to prevent Daedric Princes from crossing the barrier, not even covenants between gods and men can dispel their power (they're built by the Aedra and fuelled by Aedric powers).

Shunravi wrote: »

@Lyrebon, Actually, there are two inactive towers in ESO. And of the two i would say the white gold tower is the more important of the two for keeping daedric influence out. And where does it say that all those towers needed to be down for a daedric incursion? Unless i missed something, the towers stabalize the mundus, but only the white gold keeps out daedra.

The jungle is an unfortunate casualty of graphical needs, but that story could easily be a myth to establish Talos legacy. And with how many things are told by the unreliable narator, it very well could be. There are plenty of towns that have been abandoned, then rebuilt using the old name. Cropsford could easily be the same.

Plagarism.

http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/The_Towers

They all create a barrier against Oblivion together.

Point taken on the second paragraph though. The Interregnum did destroy most Imperial records.

Number_51 wrote: »

@Lyrebon I'm honestly interested in your source(s) for this information. You're obviously more well versed on it then I as I don't have more then a passing, in game, knowledge on some of what you said. I had picked up somewhere along the line that the Towers do indeed set hard and fast rules on the physical (and magical?) laws of Mundas, but I don't recall them having anything to do with keeping the daedra from interfering. The destruction of the Towers must proceed the end of the world (a la Skyrim/Alduin's Wall), but isn't it the Dragon Fires that keeps the Daedric Lords from interfering? Didn't Dagon destroy Mournhold just shortly prior to the time period of ESO? Didn't the Oblivion Crisis happen because the Dragon Fires weren't re-lit, just as they aren't lit in this time period? Snow Tower (The Throat of the World) hasn't fallen at the time of the Oblivion Crisis and, to my knowledge, still hasn't at the time of Skyrim. And isn't Direnni Tower still considered to be active?

ETA: So, I did find this on the Wikia:

"Because the Towers maintain the barriers between the mortal plane and Oblivion, whenever one is deactivated or destroyed, the barrier weakens.

A Tower can be deactivated in a number of ways. These include the destruction of the Tower, its Stone or by severing the link between the Tower and the Stone that powers it. An example of this is when Emperor Uriel VII was killed during Oblivion. This event temporarily severed the link between White-Gold Tower and its Stone, the Amulet of Kings. This in turn weakened the barriers of the mortal plane and the Oblivion Crisis was the result, as foretold by Nu Hatta."

According to that all it takes is any weakening of the barrier, in other words, one of the towers being deactivated. In that case the fact that Green Sap Tower, or a part of it (Falinesti), does seem to have gone missing shortly prior to the ESO time period (but returned at some point as it was around in the late Third Era) would allow for Molag Bal's invasion would it not? Isn't there something in game that hints at Molag Bal being the reason Falinesti is missing (he had attacked it prior to it going missing or something)?

The Oblivion Crisis happened because the link between the White-Gold Tower and the Amulet was severed when Emperor Uriel Septim VII was assassinated. It was deactivated due to that and reactivated again when Martin sacrificed himself after the Amulet was destroyed. Each Tower is powered by a "Stone", it can take the form of almost anything; the White-Tower was the Amulet, the Adamantine was the Convention (an event where Akatosh and Auri-El called together the other Aedra to discuss the creation of Mundus and punish Lorkhan for his role in it), the Brass was a giant, walking golem, and the Red Tower was the Heart of Lorkhan.

At the time of the Oblivion Crisis the Tower states should be:

Adamantine (Direnni): active
Walk-Brass: inactive
Crystal Law: destroyed
Falinesti: unknown
Snow Throat: active
White-Gold: inactive
Red Mountain: inactive
Orichalc: destroyed

So it takes the deactivation of five Towers for a Daedric Prince to step into Mundus. During the Second Era we can only confirm that the Orichalc Tower is inactive. Falinesti is unknown but we can assume it's inactive because it doesn't seem to exist in the plane of Mundus at this point, and the White-Gold is deactivated when Vanus tried to use the Amulet to become Dragonborn, or when Sai Sahan sealed it away, I'm unsure which. So only three are inactive during ESO. It took four for Dagon to start the Crisis.

Though I suppose it is possible that by corrupting the Amulet, Mannimarco is able to break the Covenant between Akatosh and Alessia which was established at the Direnni Tower in the Dawn Era, which deactivates all the Towers at once. The Covenant is restored when Abnur Tharn invokes Akatosh's power onto the player as this is also a covenant between man and god.

Elebeth wrote: »

Lyrebon wrote: »

Mehrunes Dagon required four Towers to be inactive in order to invade Nirn. Their whole purpose is to prevent Daedric Princes from crossing the barrier, not even covenants between gods and men can dispel their power (they're built by the Aedra and fuelled by Aedric powers).

...

The Oblivion Crisis happened because the link between the White-Gold Tower and the Amulet was severed when Emperor Uriel Septim VII was assassinated.

Contradicting yourself?

Also, only Adamantine Tower was (supposedly) made by Aedra/Aedric powers while most of others were mer-made copies.
I firmly believe that "holding the barriers between Mundus and Oblivion" doesn't mean that they prevent incursions between relms, it means they literally hold/prevent Mundus becoming Chaos (loosing Time).

Tower lore is very ambiguous (being MKs construct) and I think that even loremasters at BethSoft/ZoS don't know where or how to proceed with it. That means we are in for some retcons. For better or worse...

And please leave Wikia alone. Here: http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Towers

Shunravi wrote: »

Lyrebon wrote: »

Though I suppose it is possible that by corrupting the Amulet, Mannimarco is able to break the Covenant between Akatosh and Alessia which was established at the Direnni Tower in the Dawn Era, which deactivates all the Towers at once. The Covenant is restored when Abnur Tharn invokes Akatosh's power onto the player as this is also a covenant between man and god.

It is my opinion that this is exactly what happened (edit:not the simultaneous deactivation part though), but it is not restored by Tharn. In the orsinium dlc (and at the end of the games main quest) it is strongly hinted that there will be further incursions and this time by two princes fighting each other. The barrier is still down as it were. I think they are going for Tiber Septim restores it as a dragonborn during his conquest, though I could be wrong.

Molag Bal is the god of schemes, and I sincerely believe that his plan b was to leave the mundus vulnerable for the other princes.

Also, yes, the towers stand againd oblivion, but They do not wholey keep out daedra without alessias covenant.

And when I'm talking about the white gold the way I am, I'm talking specifically about chim-el adabal as the seal of the alessian covenant.

https://youtu.be/IRsPheErBj8

why thank you

Elsonso

Elebeth wrote: »

Tower lore is very ambiguous (being MKs construct) and I think that even loremasters at BethSoft/ZoS don't know where or how to proceed with it. That means we are in for some retcons. For better or worse...

You are saying this like the wiki pages are somehow something that BGS and ZOS have to follow.

Lyrebon

Elebeth wrote: »

Lyrebon wrote: »

Mehrunes Dagon required four Towers to be inactive in order to invade Nirn. Their whole purpose is to prevent Daedric Princes from crossing the barrier, not even covenants between gods and men can dispel their power (they're built by the Aedra and fuelled by Aedric powers).

...

The Oblivion Crisis happened because the link between the White-Gold Tower and the Amulet was severed when Emperor Uriel Septim VII was assassinated.

Contradicting yourself?

Also, only Adamantine Tower was (supposedly) made by Aedra/Aedric powers while most of others were mer-made copies.
I firmly believe that "holding the barriers between Mundus and Oblivion" doesn't mean that they prevent incursions between relms, it means they literally hold/prevent Mundus becoming Chaos (loosing Time).

Tower lore is very ambiguous (being MKs construct) and I think that even loremasters at BethSoft/ZoS don't know where or how to proceed with it. That means we are in for some retcons. For better or worse...

And please leave Wikia alone. Here: http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Towers

Sorry, didn't make it clear. The Oblivion Crisis occurred with the opening of portals to Oblivion because the Orichalc, Red and Walk-Brass were inactive and the White-Gold became inactive due to Uriel Septim's assassination. Dagon also assaulted the Crystal Law Tower during the Crisis and destroyed it, which weakened the barrier enough to allow him into Mundus.

I believe they perform both functions by creating a barrier between Mundus and Oblivion, and holding together the fabric of reality. I like the Nu Hatta theories that the Thalmor of the Third Dominion went to return to the time when their ancestors were immortal by undoing time and reality itself.

Shunravi wrote: »

It is my opinion that this is exactly what happened (edit:not the simultaneous deactivation part though), but it is not restored by Tharn. In the orsinium dlc (and at the end of the games main quest) it is strongly hinted that there will be further incursions and this time by two princes fighting each other. The barrier is still down as it were. I think they are going for Tiber Septim restores it as a dragonborn during his conquest, though I could be wrong.

Molag Bal is the god of schemes, and I sincerely believe that his plan b was to leave the mundus vulnerable for the other princes.

Also, yes, the towers stand againd oblivion, but They do not wholey keep out daedra without alessias covenant.

And when I'm talking about the white gold the way I am, I'm talking specifically about chim-el adabal as the seal of the alessian covenant.

If that were the case there's still a 300 year gap between ESO and Talos' birth, so there'd be a rift between planes for just as long. Though that would be an interesting approach to dealing with the dark years before the Interregnum.

exeeter702 wrote: »

https://youtu.be/IRsPheErBj8

That made me laugh. TES lore is interesting though.

Elebeth

lordrichter wrote: »

Elebeth wrote: »

Tower lore is very ambiguous (being MKs construct) and I think that even loremasters at BethSoft/ZoS don't know where or how to proceed with it. That means we are in for some retcons. For better or worse...

You are saying this like the wiki pages are somehow something that BGS and ZOS have to follow.

Exactly the opposite. There are so many theories on the "Tower lore" that there is no tangible path to follow. Meaning that developers can take "Tower lore" in any direction they want with just a small "retcon" or reinterpretation of the facts currently in game/s.

That is also why I used words "ambiguous", "skeptical" and "I believe" when addressing "Tower lore" with other posters; none of us is right or wrong but some of us are closer to the probable "truth" than the others, as is the case with a lot of thing in TES universe.

@Lyrebon ah that makes things a bit clearer, thanks for clearing that up. I still disagree to a point, though.

Shunravi

Lyrebon wrote: »

Shunravi wrote: »

It is my opinion that this is exactly what happened (edit:not the simultaneous deactivation part though), but it is not restored by Tharn. In the orsinium dlc (and at the end of the games main quest) it is strongly hinted that there will be further incursions and this time by two princes fighting each other. The barrier is still down as it were. I think they are going for Tiber Septim restores it as a dragonborn during his conquest, though I could be wrong.

Molag Bal is the god of schemes, and I sincerely believe that his plan b was to leave the mundus vulnerable for the other princes.

Also, yes, the towers stand againd oblivion, but They do not wholey keep out daedra without alessias covenant.

And when I'm talking about the white gold the way I am, I'm talking specifically about chim-el adabal as the seal of the alessian covenant.

If that were the case there's still a 300 year gap between ESO and Talos' birth, so there'd be a rift between planes for just as long. Though that would be an interesting approach to dealing with the dark years before the Interregnum.

Quite so. the chaos of the time could be a lot more than a civil war... but its just a theory.

Sausage

Tannakaobi wrote: »

Sausage wrote: »

Tannakaobi wrote: »

Sausage wrote: »

In my opinion, MMORPG cant be cannon atm, wow still holds too strong grib on the genre, its maybe slightly losing it but not even nearly enough. Luckily, we have ES6 coming, well at least thats what I suspect, Bethesda cant fool around, ES6 is safest bet, they need another FO4. I also keep hoping when Game of Thrones is over, ES TV-series replaces it.

I'd happily just scrap Game of Thrones for that, but then I look at The Shannara Chronicles and think... well, it could end up a bit cheesy, It's a fine line with fantasy on the small screen for some reason. Hollywood can make Movie after movie, yet TV series always seem a bit... well, cheap I guess.

I've done my research and average TV-show episode cost 10 mill, Game of Thrones's Episode 6 cost 60 mill, whats very high. How wrong it can go if Bethesda go there with 60+ mill budget, whats pocket money for them.

A movie could be good, It will be interesting to see how this WoW movie is and how successful it is. The Lore in ESO is infinitely better than WoW, but I just have a feeling that it's going to tank which will maybe put off game studios making movies. Not that Blizzard are making it, but you know what I mean.

It's funny really! I watch movies these days and it feels like they have ran out of idea's for stories, yet there are so many great games/books like ESO that would be brilliant. I really want a Waylander movie, which is a David Gemmell novel.

Movie industry is so much different than TV-series industry. You need to have a-list actors if you even want to think about making it big, what WoW movie btw does not have. Blizzard is gonna put all that money into movie and its gonna disappear like a fart in the sandstorm.

Volkodav

elias.stormneb18_ESO wrote: »

Yes it's canon. Both Bethesda and ZOS have stated that that's the case. I'm sick and tired of people saying things like "ESO ent Canon bcz Skyrem and Multplr." ESO is canon, there is no reason it shouldn't be. So many people say that "ESO isn't a TES game because this and that, and Skyrim was better." That's a stupid argument. Skyrim and Oblivion took the Elder Scrolls series and stripped it of everything that was interesting and unique. ESO brings back so many of those great things. ESO is canon, don't let anyonone tell you otherwise. Also, @Sausage; you are the very embodiment of what one might call a "Casu-El" on a subreddit I know very well...

The only thing I agree with is that Oblivion and Skyrim stripped the TES games of their life.
Morrowind was the best out of them all.

TX12001rwb17_ESO

Lyrebon wrote: »

Elebeth wrote: »

Shunravi wrote: »

I should make an adedndum to what i was saying about the towers. The barrier to Daedra is through the alessian pact anchored in the white gold which is inactive, and the tower was bals first target and is being chipped away and puled appart in eso rendering it inactive. Also molag bals plan is to consume the mundus in its entirety, so anything about the towers other than how the keep the mundus stable (and perhaps anchored) should be irrelavent from the lore i know. But if you could cite your sources, it would be nice @Lyrebon

Also, @Lyrebon , the Imperial City DLC main quest is all about those barriers. Towers aren't needed/aren't relevant in "Oblivion invasion", the "covenant between gods and men" is. Again, check IC main quest.

That doesn't make it canonically correct. Mehrunes Dagon required four Towers to be inactive in order to invade Nirn. Their whole purpose is to prevent Daedric Princes from crossing the barrier, not even covenants between gods and men can dispel their power (they're built by the Aedra and fuelled by Aedric powers).

Shunravi wrote: »

@Lyrebon, Actually, there are two inactive towers in ESO. And of the two i would say the white gold tower is the more important of the two for keeping daedric influence out. And where does it say that all those towers needed to be down for a daedric incursion? Unless i missed something, the towers stabalize the mundus, but only the white gold keeps out daedra.

The jungle is an unfortunate casualty of graphical needs, but that story could easily be a myth to establish Talos legacy. And with how many things are told by the unreliable narator, it very well could be. There are plenty of towns that have been abandoned, then rebuilt using the old name. Cropsford could easily be the same.

Plagarism.

http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/The_Towers

They all create a barrier against Oblivion together.

Point taken on the second paragraph though. The Interregnum did destroy most Imperial records.

Number_51 wrote: »

@Lyrebon I'm honestly interested in your source(s) for this information. You're obviously more well versed on it then I as I don't have more then a passing, in game, knowledge on some of what you said. I had picked up somewhere along the line that the Towers do indeed set hard and fast rules on the physical (and magical?) laws of Mundas, but I don't recall them having anything to do with keeping the daedra from interfering. The destruction of the Towers must proceed the end of the world (a la Skyrim/Alduin's Wall), but isn't it the Dragon Fires that keeps the Daedric Lords from interfering? Didn't Dagon destroy Mournhold just shortly prior to the time period of ESO? Didn't the Oblivion Crisis happen because the Dragon Fires weren't re-lit, just as they aren't lit in this time period? Snow Tower (The Throat of the World) hasn't fallen at the time of the Oblivion Crisis and, to my knowledge, still hasn't at the time of Skyrim. And isn't Direnni Tower still considered to be active?

ETA: So, I did find this on the Wikia:

"Because the Towers maintain the barriers between the mortal plane and Oblivion, whenever one is deactivated or destroyed, the barrier weakens.

A Tower can be deactivated in a number of ways. These include the destruction of the Tower, its Stone or by severing the link between the Tower and the Stone that powers it. An example of this is when Emperor Uriel VII was killed during Oblivion. This event temporarily severed the link between White-Gold Tower and its Stone, the Amulet of Kings. This in turn weakened the barriers of the mortal plane and the Oblivion Crisis was the result, as foretold by Nu Hatta."

According to that all it takes is any weakening of the barrier, in other words, one of the towers being deactivated. In that case the fact that Green Sap Tower, or a part of it (Falinesti), does seem to have gone missing shortly prior to the ESO time period (but returned at some point as it was around in the late Third Era) would allow for Molag Bal's invasion would it not? Isn't there something in game that hints at Molag Bal being the reason Falinesti is missing (he had attacked it prior to it going missing or something)?

The Oblivion Crisis happened because the link between the White-Gold Tower and the Amulet was severed when Emperor Uriel Septim VII was assassinated. It was deactivated due to that and reactivated again when Martin sacrificed himself after the Amulet was destroyed. Each Tower is powered by a "Stone", it can take the form of almost anything; the White-Tower was the Amulet, the Adamantine was the Convention (an event where Akatosh and Auri-El called together the other Aedra to discuss the creation of Mundus and punish Lorkhan for his role in it), the Brass was a giant, walking golem, and the Red Tower was the Heart of Lorkhan.

At the time of the Oblivion Crisis the Tower states should be:

Adamantine (Direnni): active
Walk-Brass: inactive
Crystal Law: destroyed
Falinesti: unknown
Snow Throat: active
White-Gold: inactive
Red Mountain: inactive
Orichalc: destroyed

So it takes the deactivation of five Towers for a Daedric Prince to step into Mundus. During the Second Era we can only confirm that the Orichalc Tower is inactive. Falinesti is unknown but we can assume it's inactive because it doesn't seem to exist in the plane of Mundus at this point, and the White-Gold is deactivated when Vanus tried to use the Amulet to become Dragonborn, or when Sai Sahan sealed it away, I'm unsure which. So only three are inactive during ESO. It took four for Dagon to start the Crisis.

Though I suppose it is possible that by corrupting the Amulet, Mannimarco is able to break the Covenant between Akatosh and Alessia which was established at the Direnni Tower in the Dawn Era, which deactivates all the Towers at once. The Covenant is restored when Abnur Tharn invokes Akatosh's power onto the player as this is also a covenant between man and god.

Thats not why the oblivion crisis happened...it happened because the mythic dawn had assassinated the Dragonborn Emporer Uriel Septim VII, whose death caused the "Dragonfires" to go out and those Dragonfires were the only thing preventing the daedra from entering Nirn.

Shunravi

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Lyrebon wrote: »

Elebeth wrote: »

Shunravi wrote: »

I should make an adedndum to what i was saying about the towers. The barrier to Daedra is through the alessian pact anchored in the white gold which is inactive, and the tower was bals first target and is being chipped away and puled appart in eso rendering it inactive. Also molag bals plan is to consume the mundus in its entirety, so anything about the towers other than how the keep the mundus stable (and perhaps anchored) should be irrelavent from the lore i know. But if you could cite your sources, it would be nice @Lyrebon

Also, @Lyrebon , the Imperial City DLC main quest is all about those barriers. Towers aren't needed/aren't relevant in "Oblivion invasion", the "covenant between gods and men" is. Again, check IC main quest.

That doesn't make it canonically correct. Mehrunes Dagon required four Towers to be inactive in order to invade Nirn. Their whole purpose is to prevent Daedric Princes from crossing the barrier, not even covenants between gods and men can dispel their power (they're built by the Aedra and fuelled by Aedric powers).

Shunravi wrote: »

@Lyrebon, Actually, there are two inactive towers in ESO. And of the two i would say the white gold tower is the more important of the two for keeping daedric influence out. And where does it say that all those towers needed to be down for a daedric incursion? Unless i missed something, the towers stabalize the mundus, but only the white gold keeps out daedra.

The jungle is an unfortunate casualty of graphical needs, but that story could easily be a myth to establish Talos legacy. And with how many things are told by the unreliable narator, it very well could be. There are plenty of towns that have been abandoned, then rebuilt using the old name. Cropsford could easily be the same.

Plagarism.

http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/The_Towers

They all create a barrier against Oblivion together.

Point taken on the second paragraph though. The Interregnum did destroy most Imperial records.

Number_51 wrote: »

@Lyrebon I'm honestly interested in your source(s) for this information. You're obviously more well versed on it then I as I don't have more then a passing, in game, knowledge on some of what you said. I had picked up somewhere along the line that the Towers do indeed set hard and fast rules on the physical (and magical?) laws of Mundas, but I don't recall them having anything to do with keeping the daedra from interfering. The destruction of the Towers must proceed the end of the world (a la Skyrim/Alduin's Wall), but isn't it the Dragon Fires that keeps the Daedric Lords from interfering? Didn't Dagon destroy Mournhold just shortly prior to the time period of ESO? Didn't the Oblivion Crisis happen because the Dragon Fires weren't re-lit, just as they aren't lit in this time period? Snow Tower (The Throat of the World) hasn't fallen at the time of the Oblivion Crisis and, to my knowledge, still hasn't at the time of Skyrim. And isn't Direnni Tower still considered to be active?

ETA: So, I did find this on the Wikia:

"Because the Towers maintain the barriers between the mortal plane and Oblivion, whenever one is deactivated or destroyed, the barrier weakens.

A Tower can be deactivated in a number of ways. These include the destruction of the Tower, its Stone or by severing the link between the Tower and the Stone that powers it. An example of this is when Emperor Uriel VII was killed during Oblivion. This event temporarily severed the link between White-Gold Tower and its Stone, the Amulet of Kings. This in turn weakened the barriers of the mortal plane and the Oblivion Crisis was the result, as foretold by Nu Hatta."

According to that all it takes is any weakening of the barrier, in other words, one of the towers being deactivated. In that case the fact that Green Sap Tower, or a part of it (Falinesti), does seem to have gone missing shortly prior to the ESO time period (but returned at some point as it was around in the late Third Era) would allow for Molag Bal's invasion would it not? Isn't there something in game that hints at Molag Bal being the reason Falinesti is missing (he had attacked it prior to it going missing or something)?

The Oblivion Crisis happened because the link between the White-Gold Tower and the Amulet was severed when Emperor Uriel Septim VII was assassinated. It was deactivated due to that and reactivated again when Martin sacrificed himself after the Amulet was destroyed. Each Tower is powered by a "Stone", it can take the form of almost anything; the White-Tower was the Amulet, the Adamantine was the Convention (an event where Akatosh and Auri-El called together the other Aedra to discuss the creation of Mundus and punish Lorkhan for his role in it), the Brass was a giant, walking golem, and the Red Tower was the Heart of Lorkhan.

At the time of the Oblivion Crisis the Tower states should be:

Adamantine (Direnni): active
Walk-Brass: inactive
Crystal Law: destroyed
Falinesti: unknown
Snow Throat: active
White-Gold: inactive
Red Mountain: inactive
Orichalc: destroyed

So it takes the deactivation of five Towers for a Daedric Prince to step into Mundus. During the Second Era we can only confirm that the Orichalc Tower is inactive. Falinesti is unknown but we can assume it's inactive because it doesn't seem to exist in the plane of Mundus at this point, and the White-Gold is deactivated when Vanus tried to use the Amulet to become Dragonborn, or when Sai Sahan sealed it away, I'm unsure which. So only three are inactive during ESO. It took four for Dagon to start the Crisis.

Though I suppose it is possible that by corrupting the Amulet, Mannimarco is able to break the Covenant between Akatosh and Alessia which was established at the Direnni Tower in the Dawn Era, which deactivates all the Towers at once. The Covenant is restored when Abnur Tharn invokes Akatosh's power onto the player as this is also a covenant between man and god.

Thats not why the oblivion crisis happened...it happened because the mythic dawn had assassinated the Dragonborn Emporer Uriel Septim VII, whose death caused the "Dragonfires" to go out and those Dragonfires were the only thing preventing the daedra from entering Nirn.

Specific lore on the subject. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Dragonfires

If someone's gona argue towers and stones, I'll argue that. But it is the dragonfires, the covenant with alessia, and chim-el adabal that stop daedric influence. Not the towers themselves.

JD2013

As far as the White-Gold tower goes, the dragonfires being lit are what keeps that barrier between Oblivion and Mundus safe, and by having a rightful heir on the throne. That's how it keeps covenant with Akatosh.

In ESO there is neither a rightful heir on the throne, nor are the Dragonfires active. That's how Molag Bal siezed his chance to invade, because the barrier is not there.

The other inactive towers (of which there are currently a couple) have nothing really to do with it, as the White-Gold tower is the centre of it all, which is why Molag Bal so dearly wanted to keep hold of Imperial City.

It is not only the political centre of Tamriel, but also if he were to theoretically stop the dragonfires ever being lit again, then the barrier would always be weak, allowing for however many armies of Daedra he would wish to walk upon Tamriel.

Number_51

Elebeth wrote: »

And please leave Wikia alone. Here: http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Towers

Lol. Yes, I always use UESP. Unfortunately I was somewhere where the site was blocked for me at the time.