Sorc vs DK advise required

GrigorijMalahevich

Hello everyone!

Yes, this is L2P issue, but no a complaint or whine. 

I am in need of some advice and clarification to the Sorc vs DK duel. I am V16 Magicka Sorc on Xbox EU, playing PvP for around 3 months. I run 5x Seducer + Magnus with Nirn swords all legendary and willpower with max magicka and spell dmg.
Setup is attack bar - Structured Entropy; CF (obviously); Curse; Streak; Hard Ward and Danwbreaker
Resto bar – Proxy det; Defensive Rune; Healing Ward; Boundless storm; Harness; ice comet (for extra magicka on this bar).

I win around 90% of 1x1 encounters in Cyrodil and I can see that if I die then the player was just a lot better, not due to BS balance issues.

In general, I beat most of the DK’s in random encounters, due to use of defensive rune and me counting until “4” for dragon scales before I nuke with CF and usually if DK does not run scales on cd, then it will be not difficult to kill him.

My issue is with DK’s that run scales on cd (mostly only very good players that combine it with constant pressure) and I try to streak at my count “3” so there will be ministrun that will allow me to frag them and turn the fight around, but it requires perfect timing and I haven’t yet mastered it as I encounter really good DK’s not very often.

Can you guys share some advices and/or any features you use? As I understand DK requires mana for Scales and if the spell is reflected DK is drained mana for this spell - is that true? If so should I cast really mana expensive spells with low dmg (can't think of any, but still). And if the spell is reflected does it reflect with my initial dmg + 20% of Fire Scales?

I feel like I need to start playing as DK to know the weaknesses of Scales, but I really love my friendly Sorc.

P.S. is Structured Entropy reflected by Fire Scales? If yes, does it give empower to DK? 

Thank you!

r.jan_emailb16_ESO

I think you can get the major spell damage buff from your class skills, right? And I think that also heals you, not sure though. Not a sorc

Against magicka dks - stamina ones can't keep up the wings all the time anyway - I suggest you time your burst: streak through the guy, curse and proxy det should go off immediately, followed by a dawnbreaker. DK is now either dead or really low hp and you most likely have a crystal frag procc, so you can finish it. If you fail that burst and the DK is good, the fight will most likely take forever.

You might want to consider using a staff though (lightning heavy can't get reflected) instead of the swords, so you can use crushing shock as a filler.

Also, you can't really die against a magicka dk if you keep harness + ward up all the time. If you get cc'ed and have your shields up, don't bother wasting stamina, no way the dk can burn your shields fast enough. Better break cc when there is a chance to finish the fight. Streak to cc every time the immunity wears off, the DK will be out of stamina in no time (unless you meet a good one, cause there is no need to break cc against a sorc when you still have your wings up).

And no, reflecting stuff doesn't cost magicka; this was a bug and fixed long ago. The damage increase on the reflect is actually 30%.

AverageJo3Gam3r

My main is a stam DK and my alt a mag sorc, so I know this matchup well from both sides. The main DK weakness is lack of range and lack of mobility. Between a combination of mines, streak, and boundless storm, you should be able to kite a DK in a 1v1 situation where they're not pressuring you. (Assuming no shield breaker + bow light attacks)

Next, not everything is reflectable. Avoid frags, overload, heavy fire staff attacks, and meteor. But everything else should hit the DK. So really the question becomes can you burst them without those abilities? As previous poster said, curse, det, streak, dawn breaker then fury should get you there.

Lastly, if you really want to have fun and mess with someone's day, throw on S+B and double reflect the frag or meteor back at them.

Vynist

Speaking from a magicka DK's standpoint:

We struggle a lot with mobility. Most magicka DK's don't have a gapcloser--fossilize or vamp drain doesn't count Take advantage of that. Kite the DK's around; super cheesy but oh well.

Also, the weak point of a magicka DK (or any magicka build pretty much) is stamina for the most part. Find ways to drain his stam. No stam, no cc break, sorc wins.

Millerman34n

You win by having a maxim spell damage build always stand in Dadric mindes, use the combo entropy Majica det, curse, cristal fragments daw breaker execute. This are also a lot of little things you can do like run sord and board reflect and double reflect a meteor on him for 40% more damage, honestly you just have to duel a good do for a while as learn small tips and combos, I'm on pc if you wanna duel? I can defiantly give you a lot of tips.

GrigorijMalahevich

r.jan_emailb16_ESO,
Thank you! To be honest, I get killed by WB/Executioner. I see this is purely L2P issue, as against WB in very good hands I need to streak out and nuke in Feels like it comes down to DK's magicka regen for scales and my stamina regen for CC (against stamina DK).

AverageJo3Gam3r,
Thank you! I pickup shiled when I give in quests for S+B potential, but I see big weakness in overall performance as mostly I fight Nightblades, can't base my build only to fight DK's.

Vynist,
Thank you! I drain stamina with defensive rune and for some reason everyone CC breaks Streak which is quite pointless from my point of view.

Millerman34n,
Thank you! Would love to practice, buy I'm on Xbox -_-. In reality I put up this post after duelling about 20 times against one of the best DK's on Xbox EU server, but he eventually went to sleep when I started to trade boundless storm for daedric mines, didn't get a chance to revise build...

P.S. after your comments I see that you guys automatically assume that DK that perma Scales is definitely Magicka DK? I can see that I need to just drain stamina DK magicka and push magicka's DK stamina with everything except frags.

Thank you all!

Just need much more practice.

coolermh

For Dk's use curese+Det+streak+then dawnbreaker....most die from the burst if you time it.

Zander98

Against Mag DK"s I actually think Sorcs are well set if they are ready for the encounter. I'm sure a lot of players have forgot how to deal with then, since they've been nerfed into the ground. But in MMO's OPness is usually cyclical.
A well timed curse is your best friend, but timing plays a big part. Mag DK's HATE encase. And heavy resto attacks, which 95% of magica sorcs will carry a resto, are good too.
It's all timing and waiting em out. Every time you see wings pop start counting to 4....at 4 it's safe to frag em if you can slip it in. There aren't nearly as many DK's who keep wings up at all times like back in the 1.5 days. Otherwise you have to wait it out and use mobility. Keep the DK encased, keep a good distance with bolt and LOSing, keep a curse on them....keep heavy attacking.
Really finishing them off is the hardest part. If the are a skilled magica DK, with a good build and good gear, you'll have to be super patient and lucky for the kill shot. Make sure to not bolt through them or CC them as their health drops until it get's near 30% at least. You'll need a seond to try to DPS past their dragons blood. A lot of sorcs liked the old negate for this, the atro stun can work too but it's all timing. You want to stun them right as a curse goes off and try to finish them in a flurry. Again, against skilled dk's, with resource management down, even with good timing it might not work and then you start using mobility and slowly draining their health again.
Always keep track of a DK's ulti use. They get a lot of resources back from Dragons blood, so if possible try to burst them right after they use an ulti. As a magica sorc you should have good sustainability, so you just have to stay alive and take opportunities when they arrive.
Now all of this magica DK fighting shtuff is primarily from remembering fighting DK's in 1.5 and 1.6. Good to remember though if they ever get the buffs they need.
Against stam dk's they won't be able to keep wings up. But that doesn't matter anyway...since you'll have to watch out for their burst. All I can say there is try not to let them wrecking blow you. And watch out for those 12K dragon leaps. Hehe.
Also there are MUCH better DPS sorcs than I was in the game. Watch what the good sorcs do...their rotation.
Nothing will help more than dueling though. Find a friendly DK, and go 5 rounds against em. Even if you die five times straight you'll start to get a feel for things that will work.

Zander98

Dk's gain back resources from battle roar when using an ulti....not dragons blood. My bad.
Waaaaay to early for me to be drinking already.

Cody

I would say just switch to your swords, but it sounds like you are a mana build.

Try to use some unreflectable abilities to put pressure on the DK. curse, for example. Even the best players can be overwhelmed by a plethora of attacks. Get him to focus on fighting you off instead of keeping up those wings.

thats about all the advice I can give sadly, as I have not played the sorc to enough of an extent to help you very much.

Derra

If the mag DK knows what he´s doing you won´t ever kill him - he won´t kill you either though.

Not a big fan of counting to use fragments when a DK uses wings myself - if you´re fighting a competent mana DK he will keep scales up permanently without an attack window for you.

Also curse is no longer your friend against good enemies since it became blockable and players who happen to know that and the timing on curse just block it to reduce the already pitiful dmg.

Vynist

Derra wrote: »

If the mag DK knows what he´s doing you won´t ever kill him - he won´t kill you either though.

Not a big fan of counting to use fragments when a DK uses wings myself - if you´re fighting a competent mana DK he will keep scales up permanently without an attack window for you.

Also curse is no longer your friend against good enemies since it became blockable and players who happen to know that and the timing on curse just block it to reduce the already pitiful dmg.

You think curse is pitiful damage? LolTryWhip

My sorcerer friend hits 10k curse on crit. I would take that over my 4k whip crit

Tankqull

Vynist wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

If the mag DK knows what he´s doing you won´t ever kill him - he won´t kill you either though.

Not a big fan of counting to use fragments when a DK uses wings myself - if you´re fighting a competent mana DK he will keep scales up permanently without an attack window for you.

Also curse is no longer your friend against good enemies since it became blockable and players who happen to know that and the timing on curse just block it to reduce the already pitiful dmg.

You think curse is pitiful damage? LolTryWhip

My sorcerer friend hits 10k curse on crit. I would take that over my 4k whip crit

block it and it does less than 1kdmg as you cant crit on a blocked attack and it is counted as ranged attack applying "deflect bolts" to it aswell.
and 10k crits with curse are only possible vs complete scrubs in lvl inappropriate green gear.