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https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/668861

Nuisance - Magicka NB Build

SneaK
SneaK
✭✭✭✭✭
- Work in Progress - Insight/Tips are Welcome -

Focus of this build will be single target damage, and will be highly reliant on staying undetected. This is a Destro/Resto caster type of MagNB.

Flame Staff
- Merciless Resolve
- Inevitable Detonation
- Swallow Soul
- Impale
- Shadowy Disguise/Dark Cloak
- Meteor

Resto Staff
- Healing Ward
- Structured Entropy
- Shadow Image
- Double Take
- Efficient Purge/Crippling Grasp/Mark
- Clouding Swarm (Edited - Original ults were Meteor and Soul Assault, decided against. Optional however, if you don't have Meteor you can use Soul Assault for a ranged ulti, for the most part only works on noobies tho.)

If you take Shadowy Disguise over Dark Cloak you will need to run Purge instead of Cripple/Mark, as you will need to be able to purge DoTs somehow. Another benefit to Purge is getting rid of Mark, as being detected/marked is the biggest threat to this playstyle. If someone gap closes your only defense is going to be Shadow Image which is sometimes difficult to drop/run/teleport in time. Another option, is to replace Cripple with Agony, as it's a hard CC and you could time it with Det and a Meteor, could also be a form of defense as this build currently doesn't have any hard CC's.

Rotation Note...
You'll want to land at least two light/heavy attacks prior to casting Inevitable Det so you can time your Assassin's Will to shoot at the same time as the Det explosion, that is where the burst will come from.

Gear
This is standard, and most of you probably know better than me.
I currently run 5 Kagrenac's 2 Torug's and bad monster shoulder cause I haven't gotten Kena yet. 3 pc Willpower.
Edited by SneaK on 22 January 2016 15:51
"IMO"
Aldmeri Dominion
Bosmer Nightblade AR 32 - Altmer Templar AR 26 - Dunmer Dragonknight AR 18 - Altmer Sorcerer AR 20 - Khajiit Dragonknight AR 18
(+3 not worth mentioning, yet)
  • Angus
    Angus
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    Looks fun!
    SneaK wrote: »
    - Work in Progress - Insight/Tips are Welcome -
    If you take Shadowy Disguise over Dark Cloak you will need to run Purge instead of Cripple/Mark, because if you get marked and someone gap closes your only defense is going to be Shadow Image which is sometimes difficult to drop/run/teleport in time.

    Dark cloak doesn't remove mark, FYI. Not sure if that was implied here.

    Regardless, I can't make room for purge on my similar build, so generally cobble something together with cloak superspeed w/concealed blade, dodges, superspeed, and LOS games when I get marked, with dubious results... which is getting away from the core of your build anyway.

    SneaK wrote: »
    Another option, is to replace Cripple with Agony, as it's a hard CC and you could time it with Det and a Meteor, could also be a form of defense as this build currently doesn't have any hard CC's.

    Flame clench can be worth messing around with too - great range, non-negligible DoT when it works, and it's hilarious from stealth.
    Edited by Angus on 21 January 2016 16:29
    Angus of Noquar franchise.
    And some others.
  • SneaK
    SneaK
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    Angus wrote: »
    Looks fun!
    SneaK wrote: »
    - Work in Progress - Insight/Tips are Welcome -
    If you take Shadowy Disguise over Dark Cloak you will need to run Purge instead of Cripple/Mark, because if you get marked and someone gap closes your only defense is going to be Shadow Image which is sometimes difficult to drop/run/teleport in time.

    Dark cloak doesn't remove mark, FYI. Not sure if that was implied here.

    Yea, I wasn't trying to imply that, whoops. I am going to have to rewrite that! Meant something along the lines of need purge to get rid of dots but for some reason started going into the biggest threat of this build, which is being detected. Thanks for pointing this out.
    Angus wrote: »
    SneaK wrote: »
    Another option, is to replace Cripple with Agony, as it's a hard CC and you could time it with Det and a Meteor, could also be a form of defense as this build currently doesn't have any hard CC's.

    Flame clench can be worth messing around with too - great range, non-negligible DoT when it works, and it's hilarious from stealth.

    Flame Clench could definitely be mixed in, especially worthy of a slot around the bridge or other cliff/type of terrain. Also, if you don't have Inevitable yet... but that's a pretty core part of the playstyle.

    Edited by SneaK on 21 January 2016 16:37
    "IMO"
    Aldmeri Dominion
    Bosmer Nightblade AR 32 - Altmer Templar AR 26 - Dunmer Dragonknight AR 18 - Altmer Sorcerer AR 20 - Khajiit Dragonknight AR 18
    (+3 not worth mentioning, yet)
  • Takes-No-Prisoner
    Takes-No-Prisoner
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    Something to be said about Marked target, in relation to a Magic based NB. OP mentioned in his/her post that the build is built around staying hidden and playing that into the build. While my Magic NB build is sort of similar, and from my experience, one running a build of this nature + the 'always hidden' playstyle... one is not going to need to worry about Marked Target or always having purge on your bar. Your going to keep yourself clothed in shadow as much as possible never giving him the chance to put it on you.

    This playstyle is a great defensive style against people who like to knock you down using abilities like Crystal Frags, WB, and Aurora Javelin. If it does hit, one quick fear, put up Double Take + Conceal speed buff + cloak and your outta there.

    I used Flame clench with my build for a couple of hours, and its great as a mix up tool as a range knock down ability. But the immunity is possibly not worth it if your running Fear on your bar. Which us arguably better for the debuff to speed and damage it gives the targets.
    Edited by Takes-No-Prisoner on 21 January 2016 17:10
  • Angus
    Angus
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    I used Flame clench with my build for a couple of hours, and its great as a mix up tool as a range knock down ability. But the immunity is possibly not worth it if your running Fear on your bar. Which us arguably better for the debuff to speed and damage it gives the targets.

    Absolutely true - though I'd still take clench over agony, if it had to be one or the other. You're right that OP's build with det would probably pair nicer with fear than either clench or agony.

    My magblade is more pew-pew-attrition-range focused (flame clench, cripple, funnel health spam, annoying as hell) so that ranged knockdown is crucial for my playstyle.

    Edited by Angus on 21 January 2016 17:40
    Angus of Noquar franchise.
    And some others.
  • Takes-No-Prisoner
    Takes-No-Prisoner
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    Range NB is hella annoying. I use to play range DPS with it, and they're good as long as you can keep people off you. I prefer a play style similar to the OP, but I like shaking things up with having good melee/ranged options. Keep hidden up is a critical aspect of my build. Plus, attacking out of stealth as much as possible to abuse this passive;

    Passive-Master-Assassin.jpg

    ATM my bars look something like;

    Bar 1 - v16 Dual Swords [making it Juilanos x5 piece]

    Conceal, Sap Essence, Lotus Fan, Mass Hysteria, Dark Cloak ULT: Soul Harvest

    Bar 2 - v16 Flame staff [making it Magnus x5 piece]

    Conceal, Crushing Shock, Poxy Det, Double Take, Dark Cloak ULT: Soul Tether
    I need to science out where I gotta put conceal, the utility effect it gives + Double take + Dark Cloak + Magnus 5x buff proc allow me to basically run from Roebeck to Fareygl hidden. But its a good DPS weapon and belongs on the primary DPS bar :s

    Crushing is great as a interrupt and has synergy with one of The Riutal stars Exploiter [increase damage to off-balance by 10%] light attacks and heavy attacks into crushing has killed enemies that are too close to the keep.
  • SneaK
    SneaK
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    Range NB is hella annoying. I use to play range DPS with it, and they're good as long as you can keep people off you. I prefer a play style similar to the OP, but I like shaking things up with having good melee/ranged options. Keep hidden up is a critical aspect of my build. Plus, attacking out of stealth as much as possible to abuse this passive;

    Passive-Master-Assassin.jpg

    ATM my bars look something like;

    Bar 1 - v16 Dual Swords [making it Juilanos x5 piece]

    Conceal, Sap Essence, Lotus Fan, Mass Hysteria, Dark Cloak ULT: Soul Harvest

    Bar 2 - v16 Flame staff [making it Magnus x5 piece]

    Conceal, Crushing Shock, Poxy Det, Double Take, Dark Cloak ULT: Soul Tether
    I need to science out where I gotta put conceal, the utility effect it gives + Double take + Dark Cloak + Magnus 5x buff proc allow me to basically run from Roebeck to Fareygl hidden. But its a good DPS weapon and belongs on the primary DPS bar :s

    Crushing is great as a interrupt and has synergy with one of The Riutal stars Exploiter [increase damage to off-balance by 10%] light attacks and heavy attacks into crushing has killed enemies that are too close to the keep.

    I should have probably mentioned, my character is a Vampire, and the speed bonus that gives would be enough for me to forego Concealed Weapon. I like the idea of Mass Hysteria, but thought of Agony just cause of the range. I would however imagine MH would be a more suitable skill as it does not has a cast time. But, it would remove a siphoning ability from my back bar and decrease max magicka, if I did that I'd replace Soul Assault with Soul Tether (and treat that as a defensive ulti).
    Edited by SneaK on 21 January 2016 18:26
    "IMO"
    Aldmeri Dominion
    Bosmer Nightblade AR 32 - Altmer Templar AR 26 - Dunmer Dragonknight AR 18 - Altmer Sorcerer AR 20 - Khajiit Dragonknight AR 18
    (+3 not worth mentioning, yet)
  • Takes-No-Prisoner
    Takes-No-Prisoner
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    Vamp is a good replacement for conceal. Honestly thought about going vampire too for that sneak bonus but I already like what I have anyway... and being a craftsmen/provisioner on my NB I would have to get a bunch more skill points :D

    I have never even touched agony at all. However, it does say here, that its got a 28m range... I am curious, what is the benefit of Agnoy over the other NB skills given to us? Please understand, I made my NB back when it was 1.4 on PC. And most of the Siphon Tree for us was mostly useless. So some of us need to re-learn what they're suppose to do. :o
  • SneaK
    SneaK
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    Vamp is a good replacement for conceal. Honestly thought about going vampire too for that sneak bonus but I already like what I have anyway... and being a craftsmen/provisioner on my NB I would have to get a bunch more skill points :D

    I have never even touched agony at all. However, it does say here, that its got a 28m range... I am curious, what is the benefit of Agnoy over the other NB skills given to us? Please understand, I made my NB back when it was 1.4 on PC. And most of the Siphon Tree for us was mostly useless. So some of us need to re-learn what they're suppose to do. :o

    I honestly don't know, I was throwing Agony out there just as a somewhat unique idea. But it having a cast time kind of kills the defensive aspect of it. I think it would be useful as an offensive move right before a det went off though. You could land 3 light/heavy attacks, cast det, agony, meteor, heavy, assassin's will. That'd be a good way to ensure the combo hits..
    "IMO"
    Aldmeri Dominion
    Bosmer Nightblade AR 32 - Altmer Templar AR 26 - Dunmer Dragonknight AR 18 - Altmer Sorcerer AR 20 - Khajiit Dragonknight AR 18
    (+3 not worth mentioning, yet)
  • Angus
    Angus
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    Vamp is a good replacement for conceal. Honestly thought about going vampire too for that sneak bonus but I already like what I have anyway... and being a craftsmen/provisioner on my NB I would have to get a bunch more skill points :D

    I have never even touched agony at all. However, it does say here, that its got a 28m range... I am curious, what is the benefit of Agnoy over the other NB skills given to us? Please understand, I made my NB back when it was 1.4 on PC. And most of the Siphon Tree for us was mostly useless. So some of us need to re-learn what they're suppose to do. :o

    It can be pretty handy for PvE at low levels on some builds, but... never really see it in PvP. Too slow for me, personally. Plus I do use concealed, so cloak + concealed + rapids means you can run 28 meters and stun someone in the amount of time agony takes to cast.

    I'm curious too, though, to see if anyone's found a good use for it. Cloak + agony makes it a little more useful, but still has that cast time.
    Edited by Angus on 21 January 2016 19:26
    Angus of Noquar franchise.
    And some others.
  • Takes-No-Prisoner
    Takes-No-Prisoner
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    SneaK wrote: »

    I honestly don't know, I was throwing Agony out there just as a somewhat unique idea. But it having a cast time kind of kills the defensive aspect of it. I think it would be useful as an offensive move right before a det went off though. You could land 3 light/heavy attacks, cast det, agony, meteor, heavy, assassin's will. That'd be a good way to ensure the combo hits..

    In a perfect world, that combo looks pretty legit, Assassins Will alone with the right build can take off 1/2 of the targets life. However with Agony the skill specifically states "Stun is broken if the enemy takes damage." Which could include things like siege, DoTs? or other players hitting your target. But could it also be CC broke? I'm not sure it is worth it if your going to spent 1.5 s to cast to have it broken by a lv14 hitting your target, or siege. In a ganking situation that could work.

    Angus wrote: »
    It can be pretty handy for PvE at low levels on some builds, but... never really see it in PvP. Too slow for me, personally. Plus I do use concealed, so cloak + concealed + rapids means you can run 28 meters and stun someone in the amount of time agony takes to cast.

    I'm curious too, though, to see if anyone's found a good use for it. Cloak + agony makes it a little more useful, but still has that cast time.

    Cast times are tricky, you'd be spending the mana cost for Cloak which is 2.5 seconds invisible plus casting Agony[1.5s] after that assuming the set up is fine and you have the mana to continue your DPS on the target. This is why I prefer Proxy Det over the other morph to give me more stacked damage when I jump into melee range. But that's easily just as swappable for Crippling that can do very roughly the same amount of damage over a period of 8 seconds vs proxy det magic damage happens all at once.
    Edited by Takes-No-Prisoner on 21 January 2016 19:59
  • SneaK
    SneaK
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    SneaK wrote: »

    I honestly don't know, I was throwing Agony out there just as a somewhat unique idea. But it having a cast time kind of kills the defensive aspect of it. I think it would be useful as an offensive move right before a det went off though. You could land 3 light/heavy attacks, cast det, agony, meteor, heavy, assassin's will. That'd be a good way to ensure the combo hits..

    In a perfect world, that combo looks pretty legit, Assassins Will alone with the right build can take off 1/2 of the targets life. However with Agony the skill specifically states "Stun is broken if the enemy takes damage." Which could include things like siege, DoTs? or other players hitting your target. But could it also be CC broke? I'm not sure it is worth it if your going to spent 1.5 s to cast to have it broken by a lv14 hitting your target, or siege. In a ganking situation that could work.

    Angus wrote: »
    It can be pretty handy for PvE at low levels on some builds, but... never really see it in PvP. Too slow for me, personally. Plus I do use concealed, so cloak + concealed + rapids means you can run 28 meters and stun someone in the amount of time agony takes to cast.

    I'm curious too, though, to see if anyone's found a good use for it. Cloak + agony makes it a little more useful, but still has that cast time.

    Cast times are tricky, you'd be spending the mana cost for Cloak which is 2.5 seconds invisible plus casting Agony[1.5s] after that assuming the set up is fine and you have the mana to continue your DPS on the target. This is why I prefer Proxy Det over the other morph to give me more stacked damage when I jump into melee range. But that's easily just as swappable for Crippling that can do very roughly the same amount of damage over a period of 8 seconds vs proxy det magic damage happens all at once.

    I would only consider Agony for open world when running alone, in a big battle Cripple would be the superior choice.

    Proxy bomber NBs are a totally different type of playstyle. Proxy wouldn't benefit this build at all.
    "IMO"
    Aldmeri Dominion
    Bosmer Nightblade AR 32 - Altmer Templar AR 26 - Dunmer Dragonknight AR 18 - Altmer Sorcerer AR 20 - Khajiit Dragonknight AR 18
    (+3 not worth mentioning, yet)
  • mcurley
    mcurley
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    Ranged magicka NB is a ton of fun. You might want to consider working Mass Hysteria into this build to help create space when you get closed on.
    For the Covenant!
    Svvord - magicka NB
    Lavv - magicka DK
    Povver - stamina NB
    Psylint - stamina NB
    Yelruc - magicka Sorc
  • Takes-No-Prisoner
    Takes-No-Prisoner
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    SneaK wrote: »

    I would only consider Agony for open world when running alone, in a big battle Cripple would be the superior choice.

    Proxy bomber NBs are a totally different type of playstyle. Proxy wouldn't benefit this build at all.

    Inevitable Det. + Crippling grasp is a combo you should at least try. Since the count down on both abilities is around 8 seconds. However both kinda get countered in the same way though, which is something to watch out for[Block/roll dodge].
    Edited by Takes-No-Prisoner on 21 January 2016 21:01
  • SneaK
    SneaK
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    SneaK wrote: »

    I would only consider Agony for open world when running alone, in a big battle Cripple would be the superior choice.

    Proxy bomber NBs are a totally different type of playstyle. Proxy wouldn't benefit this build at all.

    Inevitable Det. + Crippling grasp is a combo you should at least try. Since the count down on both abilities is around 8 seconds. However both kinda get countered in the same way though, which is something to watch out for[Block/roll dodge].

    Yea, that is in the original concept. I like Cripple a lot, but there are some downsides to it. Inevitable Det is 4 seconds, not 8, and someone can block through Cripple.. that is why I would tinker with a hard CC if needed. You'd cast Det and then want to CC so they couldn't negate it's damage.
    "IMO"
    Aldmeri Dominion
    Bosmer Nightblade AR 32 - Altmer Templar AR 26 - Dunmer Dragonknight AR 18 - Altmer Sorcerer AR 20 - Khajiit Dragonknight AR 18
    (+3 not worth mentioning, yet)
  • Lexxypwns
    Lexxypwns
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    SneaK wrote: »
    Angus wrote: »
    Looks fun!
    SneaK wrote: »
    - Work in Progress - Insight/Tips are Welcome -
    If you take Shadowy Disguise over Dark Cloak you will need to run Purge instead of Cripple/Mark, because if you get marked and someone gap closes your only defense is going to be Shadow Image which is sometimes difficult to drop/run/teleport in time.

    Dark cloak doesn't remove mark, FYI. Not sure if that was implied here.

    Yea, I wasn't trying to imply that, whoops. I am going to have to rewrite that! Meant something along the lines of need purge to get rid of dots but for some reason started going into the biggest threat of this build, which is being detected. Thanks for pointing this out.
    Angus wrote: »
    SneaK wrote: »
    Another option, is to replace Cripple with Agony, as it's a hard CC and you could time it with Det and a Meteor, could also be a form of defense as this build currently doesn't have any hard CC's.

    Flame clench can be worth messing around with too - great range, non-negligible DoT when it works, and it's hilarious from stealth.

    Flame Clench could definitely be mixed in, especially worthy of a slot around the bridge or other cliff/type of terrain. Also, if you don't have Inevitable yet... but that's a pretty core part of the playstyle.

    Absolutely not, Flame clench will only work on bad players in gimmicky situations and the CC doesn't occur against anyone running a damage shield, since the CC effectively doesn't work on 3/4 of magic builds and the damage is absolutely garbage it should not be a part of ANY competitive pvp build. Even something as bad as Agony is significantly better, even if you can't trick them into breaking the CC before you damage them, the DoT at least scales off thaumaturge and ticks for more damage than Destructive Clench
    Edited by Lexxypwns on 21 January 2016 22:02
  • QuebraRegra
    QuebraRegra
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    Huh? Why would you run SHADOWY DISGUISE over CLOAK? It doesn't contribute to spell critical as I understand it, plus no room for PURGE.
  • Lexxypwns
    Lexxypwns
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    Huh? Why would you run SHADOWY DISGUISE over CLOAK? It doesn't contribute to spell critical as I understand it, plus no room for PURGE.

    It does contribute to spell crit, and while I agree with running dark cloak, if you're meaning your only defense to be cloak + shadow image you're going to need purge to counter mark. Still not worth running shadowy disguise imo since you'll have to purge before cloaking or dots will remove you from cloak, and you're wasting the 32%+ spell crit that this build has naturally on any attack made after cloak
  • SneaK
    SneaK
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Lexxypwns wrote: »
    SneaK wrote: »
    Angus wrote: »
    Looks fun!
    SneaK wrote: »
    - Work in Progress - Insight/Tips are Welcome -
    If you take Shadowy Disguise over Dark Cloak you will need to run Purge instead of Cripple/Mark, because if you get marked and someone gap closes your only defense is going to be Shadow Image which is sometimes difficult to drop/run/teleport in time.

    Dark cloak doesn't remove mark, FYI. Not sure if that was implied here.

    Yea, I wasn't trying to imply that, whoops. I am going to have to rewrite that! Meant something along the lines of need purge to get rid of dots but for some reason started going into the biggest threat of this build, which is being detected. Thanks for pointing this out.
    Angus wrote: »
    SneaK wrote: »
    Another option, is to replace Cripple with Agony, as it's a hard CC and you could time it with Det and a Meteor, could also be a form of defense as this build currently doesn't have any hard CC's.

    Flame clench can be worth messing around with too - great range, non-negligible DoT when it works, and it's hilarious from stealth.

    Flame Clench could definitely be mixed in, especially worthy of a slot around the bridge or other cliff/type of terrain. Also, if you don't have Inevitable yet... but that's a pretty core part of the playstyle.

    Absolutely not, Flame clench will only work on bad players in gimmicky situations and the CC doesn't occur against anyone running a damage shield, since the CC effectively doesn't work on 3/4 of magic builds and the damage is absolutely garbage it should not be a part of ANY competitive pvp build. Even something as bad as Agony is significantly better, even if you can't trick them into breaking the CC before you damage them, the DoT at least scales off thaumaturge and ticks for more damage than Destructive Clench

    Well, that's pretty much what I said, you could use it around the bridge or high cliffs to knock people off, but I would never consider that skill for DPS. If you don't have Det unlocked you'd be spamming Swallow Soul as your main DPS so Flame Clench wouldn't be a bad thing just to have on the bar for some extra utility though.
    "IMO"
    Aldmeri Dominion
    Bosmer Nightblade AR 32 - Altmer Templar AR 26 - Dunmer Dragonknight AR 18 - Altmer Sorcerer AR 20 - Khajiit Dragonknight AR 18
    (+3 not worth mentioning, yet)
  • KundaliniHero
    KundaliniHero
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    Not a bad build.

    I still think Mass Hysteria is too good to not slot especially in conjunction with Meteor.
    Soul Assault is great on paper but I wouldnt use it for PVP, Soul Harvest (to get Meteor faster) or even Soul Tether is better IMO. I would stick with Cripple, even if they can purge it you get a pretty consistent speed boost; Agony isnt bad when you can pull it off but its way too situational for me and the effect breaks as soon as you put damage on the target, its better in a 1v2, 1v3 situation where you want to try and remove someone from the equation temporarily or if your opponent is trying to run, but Mass Hysteria is just all around better.
    Vampire may actually be good for this build if your main playstyle is hit and run.
    Personally I dont use vampire, everyone and their mom is either running some iteration of dawnbreaker and camo hunter. I do have dark cloak but its used as a damage purge, the more I have played the more I have gotten conditioned to stand and fight. When I need an exit Shadow Image + Cloak works wonders. Never to concerned about getting marked.
    Edited by KundaliniHero on 21 January 2016 22:17
  • SneaK
    SneaK
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    Not a bad build.

    I still think Mass Hysteria is too good to not slot especially in conjunction with Meteor.
    Soul Assault is great on paper but I wouldnt use it for PVP, Soul Harvest (to get Meteor faster) or even Soul Tether is better IMO. I would stick with Cripple, even if they can purge it you get a pretty consistent speed boost; Agony isnt bad when you can pull it off but its way too situational for me and the effect breaks as soon as you put damage on the target, its better in a 1v2, 1v3 situation where you want to try and remove someone from the equation temporarily or if your opponent is trying to run, but Mass Hysteria is just all around better.
    Vampire may actually be good for this build if your main playstyle is hit and run.
    Personally I dont use vampire, I do have dark cloak but its used as a purge, the more I have played the more I have gotten conditioned to stand and fight. When I need an exit Shadow Image + Cloak works wonders.

    Soul Assault would probably be better if exchanged for Soul Tether or Bats, that way it'd by another defensive mechanism if needed. I am going to try Agony just to see what its like for awhile, I don't know anyone who uses it, which kinda makes me want to.. I have actually been playing around with Drain Essence in the Vampire skill line in that slot, not best in slot but is fun..

    I suppose if you don't have Meteor then you could use Soul Assault for a ranged Ulti, but I agree that it's not optimal for PvP.
    "IMO"
    Aldmeri Dominion
    Bosmer Nightblade AR 32 - Altmer Templar AR 26 - Dunmer Dragonknight AR 18 - Altmer Sorcerer AR 20 - Khajiit Dragonknight AR 18
    (+3 not worth mentioning, yet)
  • KundaliniHero
    KundaliniHero
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    SneaK wrote: »
    Not a bad build.

    I still think Mass Hysteria is too good to not slot especially in conjunction with Meteor.
    Soul Assault is great on paper but I wouldnt use it for PVP, Soul Harvest (to get Meteor faster) or even Soul Tether is better IMO. I would stick with Cripple, even if they can purge it you get a pretty consistent speed boost; Agony isnt bad when you can pull it off but its way too situational for me and the effect breaks as soon as you put damage on the target, its better in a 1v2, 1v3 situation where you want to try and remove someone from the equation temporarily or if your opponent is trying to run, but Mass Hysteria is just all around better.
    Vampire may actually be good for this build if your main playstyle is hit and run.
    Personally I dont use vampire, I do have dark cloak but its used as a purge, the more I have played the more I have gotten conditioned to stand and fight. When I need an exit Shadow Image + Cloak works wonders.

    Soul Assault would probably be better if exchanged for Soul Tether or Bats, that way it'd by another defensive mechanism if needed. I am going to try Agony just to see what its like for awhile, I don't know anyone who uses it, which kinda makes me want to.. I have actually been playing around with Drain Essence in the Vampire skill line in that slot, not best in slot but is fun..

    I suppose if you don't have Meteor then you could use Soul Assault for a ranged Ulti, but I agree that it's not optimal for PvP.

    Actually when i was a Vampire I always slotted Drain Essence, its a really great skill that not alot of people use. Its a stun, it gives you health back and more importantly it generates ultimate, the key with DE is to animation cancel it and go into another attack, takes some practice but coupled with proxy det could be pretty wicked and I think would be FAR BETTER than Agony. Just mind the Camohunter/Dawnbreaker spam.

    The thing with Soul Assault is it only seems to work once in awhile, mostly against noobs - seems like too many people know how to counter it and it can be easily purified.
  • Dakrana_Thrazvoth
    Dakrana_Thrazvoth
    ✭✭✭✭
    Interesting, but as ultimate, I'll suggest soul harvest for destro staff, and soul tether for heal staff bar. Because you can reflect, avoid, meteor, and soul assault, one bash or cc, and he gets interrupted.
  • SneaK
    SneaK
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Vâo wrote: »
    Interesting, but as ultimate, I'll suggest soul harvest for destro staff, and soul tether for heal staff bar. Because you can reflect, avoid, meteor, and soul assault, one bash or cc, and he gets interrupted.

    Yes, we've have some discussion since my original post with those two ultimates. I still like meteor in slot, as it's a great ranged ultimate and that's what this build is focused on. One thing we have been discussing is incorporating a hard CC so the Meteor could land. Something I am going to tinker with is actually going to be Agony, and Invigorating Drain, and the idea behind it would be to cast it right before/after casting a Meteor, that way they would have to break free and would be less likely to purify/cloak/streak/reflect out of the meteor. Another reason why I like it is the Empower it would give in using it, immediately following would be the use of Assassin's Will which would make it hit 20% harder..

    Not slotting Soul Harvest is hard, but I am currently leaning towards slotting Bats as the other ultimate as a just in case type of defensive mechanism if needed...
    Edited by SneaK on 22 January 2016 16:00
    "IMO"
    Aldmeri Dominion
    Bosmer Nightblade AR 32 - Altmer Templar AR 26 - Dunmer Dragonknight AR 18 - Altmer Sorcerer AR 20 - Khajiit Dragonknight AR 18
    (+3 not worth mentioning, yet)
  • KundaliniHero
    KundaliniHero
    ✭✭✭
    SneaK wrote: »
    Vâo wrote: »
    Interesting, but as ultimate, I'll suggest soul harvest for destro staff, and soul tether for heal staff bar. Because you can reflect, avoid, meteor, and soul assault, one bash or cc, and he gets interrupted.

    Yes, we've have some discussion since my original post with those two ultimates. I still like meteor in slot, as it's a great ranged ultimate and that's what this build is focused on. One thing we have been discussing is incorporating a hard CC so the Meteor could land. Something I am going to tinker with is actually going to be Agony, and Invigorating Drain, and the idea behind it would be to cast it right before/after casting a Meteor, that way they would have to break free and would be less likely to purify/cloak/streak/reflect out of the meteor. Another reason why I like it is the Empower it would give in using it, immediately following would be the use of Assassin's Will which would make it hit 20% harder..

    Not slotting Soul Harvest is hard, but I am currently leaning towards slotting Bats as the other ultimate as a just in case type of defensive mechanism if needed...

    Some combos I've used with success: cast Meteor and just before it lands cast Mass Hysteria. Another great combo is Bat Swarm + Sap Essence.
  • SneaK
    SneaK
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    SneaK wrote: »
    Vâo wrote: »
    Interesting, but as ultimate, I'll suggest soul harvest for destro staff, and soul tether for heal staff bar. Because you can reflect, avoid, meteor, and soul assault, one bash or cc, and he gets interrupted.

    Yes, we've have some discussion since my original post with those two ultimates. I still like meteor in slot, as it's a great ranged ultimate and that's what this build is focused on. One thing we have been discussing is incorporating a hard CC so the Meteor could land. Something I am going to tinker with is actually going to be Agony, and Invigorating Drain, and the idea behind it would be to cast it right before/after casting a Meteor, that way they would have to break free and would be less likely to purify/cloak/streak/reflect out of the meteor. Another reason why I like it is the Empower it would give in using it, immediately following would be the use of Assassin's Will which would make it hit 20% harder..

    Not slotting Soul Harvest is hard, but I am currently leaning towards slotting Bats as the other ultimate as a just in case type of defensive mechanism if needed...

    Some combos I've used with success: cast Meteor and just before it lands cast Mass Hysteria. Another great combo is Bat Swarm + Sap Essence.

    Yea, I've used these, undortunately both of these require some form of cqc, which we'll be trying to avoid.
    "IMO"
    Aldmeri Dominion
    Bosmer Nightblade AR 32 - Altmer Templar AR 26 - Dunmer Dragonknight AR 18 - Altmer Sorcerer AR 20 - Khajiit Dragonknight AR 18
    (+3 not worth mentioning, yet)
  • revonine
    revonine
    ✭✭✭✭
    I find ranged magicka NB builds to be better against Sorcerers with the constant pressure they can apply. You also don't have to waste time trying to kite the mine campers. Dual wield bomber builds though are really good in general for open world Cyrodill. At least this is my experience.
    Edited by revonine on 23 January 2016 08:54
  • Cyantific87
    Cyantific87
    ✭✭✭
    the agony morph does not have a cast time by the way, its instant CC (apart from the strange travel time, which is <.5 seconds). Perfect for an assasins will, meteor combo...
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