- Work in Progress - Insight/Tips are Welcome -
If you take Shadowy Disguise over Dark Cloak you will need to run Purge instead of Cripple/Mark, because if you get marked and someone gap closes your only defense is going to be Shadow Image which is sometimes difficult to drop/run/teleport in time.
Another option, is to replace Cripple with Agony, as it's a hard CC and you could time it with Det and a Meteor, could also be a form of defense as this build currently doesn't have any hard CC's.
Looks fun!- Work in Progress - Insight/Tips are Welcome -
If you take Shadowy Disguise over Dark Cloak you will need to run Purge instead of Cripple/Mark, because if you get marked and someone gap closes your only defense is going to be Shadow Image which is sometimes difficult to drop/run/teleport in time.
Dark cloak doesn't remove mark, FYI. Not sure if that was implied here.
Another option, is to replace Cripple with Agony, as it's a hard CC and you could time it with Det and a Meteor, could also be a form of defense as this build currently doesn't have any hard CC's.
Flame clench can be worth messing around with too - great range, non-negligible DoT when it works, and it's hilarious from stealth.
Takes-No-Prisoner wrote: »I used Flame clench with my build for a couple of hours, and its great as a mix up tool as a range knock down ability. But the immunity is possibly not worth it if your running Fear on your bar. Which us arguably better for the debuff to speed and damage it gives the targets.
Takes-No-Prisoner wrote: »Range NB is hella annoying. I use to play range DPS with it, and they're good as long as you can keep people off you. I prefer a play style similar to the OP, but I like shaking things up with having good melee/ranged options. Keep hidden up is a critical aspect of my build. Plus, attacking out of stealth as much as possible to abuse this passive;
ATM my bars look something like;
Bar 1 - v16 Dual Swords [making it Juilanos x5 piece]
Conceal, Sap Essence, Lotus Fan, Mass Hysteria, Dark Cloak ULT: Soul Harvest
Bar 2 - v16 Flame staff [making it Magnus x5 piece]
Conceal, Crushing Shock, Poxy Det, Double Take, Dark Cloak ULT: Soul TetherI need to science out where I gotta put conceal, the utility effect it gives + Double take + Dark Cloak + Magnus 5x buff proc allow me to basically run from Roebeck to Fareygl hidden. But its a good DPS weapon and belongs on the primary DPS bar
Crushing is great as a interrupt and has synergy with one of The Riutal stars Exploiter [increase damage to off-balance by 10%] light attacks and heavy attacks into crushing has killed enemies that are too close to the keep.
Takes-No-Prisoner wrote: »Vamp is a good replacement for conceal. Honestly thought about going vampire too for that sneak bonus but I already like what I have anyway... and being a craftsmen/provisioner on my NB I would have to get a bunch more skill points
I have never even touched agony at all. However, it does say here, that its got a 28m range... I am curious, what is the benefit of Agnoy over the other NB skills given to us? Please understand, I made my NB back when it was 1.4 on PC. And most of the Siphon Tree for us was mostly useless. So some of us need to re-learn what they're suppose to do.
Takes-No-Prisoner wrote: »Vamp is a good replacement for conceal. Honestly thought about going vampire too for that sneak bonus but I already like what I have anyway... and being a craftsmen/provisioner on my NB I would have to get a bunch more skill points
I have never even touched agony at all. However, it does say here, that its got a 28m range... I am curious, what is the benefit of Agnoy over the other NB skills given to us? Please understand, I made my NB back when it was 1.4 on PC. And most of the Siphon Tree for us was mostly useless. So some of us need to re-learn what they're suppose to do.
I honestly don't know, I was throwing Agony out there just as a somewhat unique idea. But it having a cast time kind of kills the defensive aspect of it. I think it would be useful as an offensive move right before a det went off though. You could land 3 light/heavy attacks, cast det, agony, meteor, heavy, assassin's will. That'd be a good way to ensure the combo hits..
It can be pretty handy for PvE at low levels on some builds, but... never really see it in PvP. Too slow for me, personally. Plus I do use concealed, so cloak + concealed + rapids means you can run 28 meters and stun someone in the amount of time agony takes to cast.
I'm curious too, though, to see if anyone's found a good use for it. Cloak + agony makes it a little more useful, but still has that cast time.
Takes-No-Prisoner wrote: »
I honestly don't know, I was throwing Agony out there just as a somewhat unique idea. But it having a cast time kind of kills the defensive aspect of it. I think it would be useful as an offensive move right before a det went off though. You could land 3 light/heavy attacks, cast det, agony, meteor, heavy, assassin's will. That'd be a good way to ensure the combo hits..
In a perfect world, that combo looks pretty legit, Assassins Will alone with the right build can take off 1/2 of the targets life. However with Agony the skill specifically states "Stun is broken if the enemy takes damage." Which could include things like siege, DoTs? or other players hitting your target. But could it also be CC broke? I'm not sure it is worth it if your going to spent 1.5 s to cast to have it broken by a lv14 hitting your target, or siege. In a ganking situation that could work.It can be pretty handy for PvE at low levels on some builds, but... never really see it in PvP. Too slow for me, personally. Plus I do use concealed, so cloak + concealed + rapids means you can run 28 meters and stun someone in the amount of time agony takes to cast.
I'm curious too, though, to see if anyone's found a good use for it. Cloak + agony makes it a little more useful, but still has that cast time.
Cast times are tricky, you'd be spending the mana cost for Cloak which is 2.5 seconds invisible plus casting Agony[1.5s] after that assuming the set up is fine and you have the mana to continue your DPS on the target. This is why I prefer Proxy Det over the other morph to give me more stacked damage when I jump into melee range. But that's easily just as swappable for Crippling that can do very roughly the same amount of damage over a period of 8 seconds vs proxy det magic damage happens all at once.
I would only consider Agony for open world when running alone, in a big battle Cripple would be the superior choice.
Proxy bomber NBs are a totally different type of playstyle. Proxy wouldn't benefit this build at all.
Takes-No-Prisoner wrote: »
I would only consider Agony for open world when running alone, in a big battle Cripple would be the superior choice.
Proxy bomber NBs are a totally different type of playstyle. Proxy wouldn't benefit this build at all.
Inevitable Det. + Crippling grasp is a combo you should at least try. Since the count down on both abilities is around 8 seconds. However both kinda get countered in the same way though, which is something to watch out for[Block/roll dodge].
Looks fun!- Work in Progress - Insight/Tips are Welcome -
If you take Shadowy Disguise over Dark Cloak you will need to run Purge instead of Cripple/Mark, because if you get marked and someone gap closes your only defense is going to be Shadow Image which is sometimes difficult to drop/run/teleport in time.
Dark cloak doesn't remove mark, FYI. Not sure if that was implied here.
Yea, I wasn't trying to imply that, whoops. I am going to have to rewrite that! Meant something along the lines of need purge to get rid of dots but for some reason started going into the biggest threat of this build, which is being detected. Thanks for pointing this out.Another option, is to replace Cripple with Agony, as it's a hard CC and you could time it with Det and a Meteor, could also be a form of defense as this build currently doesn't have any hard CC's.
Flame clench can be worth messing around with too - great range, non-negligible DoT when it works, and it's hilarious from stealth.
Flame Clench could definitely be mixed in, especially worthy of a slot around the bridge or other cliff/type of terrain. Also, if you don't have Inevitable yet... but that's a pretty core part of the playstyle.
QuebraRegra wrote: »Huh? Why would you run SHADOWY DISGUISE over CLOAK? It doesn't contribute to spell critical as I understand it, plus no room for PURGE.
Looks fun!- Work in Progress - Insight/Tips are Welcome -
If you take Shadowy Disguise over Dark Cloak you will need to run Purge instead of Cripple/Mark, because if you get marked and someone gap closes your only defense is going to be Shadow Image which is sometimes difficult to drop/run/teleport in time.
Dark cloak doesn't remove mark, FYI. Not sure if that was implied here.
Yea, I wasn't trying to imply that, whoops. I am going to have to rewrite that! Meant something along the lines of need purge to get rid of dots but for some reason started going into the biggest threat of this build, which is being detected. Thanks for pointing this out.Another option, is to replace Cripple with Agony, as it's a hard CC and you could time it with Det and a Meteor, could also be a form of defense as this build currently doesn't have any hard CC's.
Flame clench can be worth messing around with too - great range, non-negligible DoT when it works, and it's hilarious from stealth.
Flame Clench could definitely be mixed in, especially worthy of a slot around the bridge or other cliff/type of terrain. Also, if you don't have Inevitable yet... but that's a pretty core part of the playstyle.
Absolutely not, Flame clench will only work on bad players in gimmicky situations and the CC doesn't occur against anyone running a damage shield, since the CC effectively doesn't work on 3/4 of magic builds and the damage is absolutely garbage it should not be a part of ANY competitive pvp build. Even something as bad as Agony is significantly better, even if you can't trick them into breaking the CC before you damage them, the DoT at least scales off thaumaturge and ticks for more damage than Destructive Clench
KundaliniHero wrote: »Not a bad build.
I still think Mass Hysteria is too good to not slot especially in conjunction with Meteor.
Soul Assault is great on paper but I wouldnt use it for PVP, Soul Harvest (to get Meteor faster) or even Soul Tether is better IMO. I would stick with Cripple, even if they can purge it you get a pretty consistent speed boost; Agony isnt bad when you can pull it off but its way too situational for me and the effect breaks as soon as you put damage on the target, its better in a 1v2, 1v3 situation where you want to try and remove someone from the equation temporarily or if your opponent is trying to run, but Mass Hysteria is just all around better.
Vampire may actually be good for this build if your main playstyle is hit and run.
Personally I dont use vampire, I do have dark cloak but its used as a purge, the more I have played the more I have gotten conditioned to stand and fight. When I need an exit Shadow Image + Cloak works wonders.
KundaliniHero wrote: »Not a bad build.
I still think Mass Hysteria is too good to not slot especially in conjunction with Meteor.
Soul Assault is great on paper but I wouldnt use it for PVP, Soul Harvest (to get Meteor faster) or even Soul Tether is better IMO. I would stick with Cripple, even if they can purge it you get a pretty consistent speed boost; Agony isnt bad when you can pull it off but its way too situational for me and the effect breaks as soon as you put damage on the target, its better in a 1v2, 1v3 situation where you want to try and remove someone from the equation temporarily or if your opponent is trying to run, but Mass Hysteria is just all around better.
Vampire may actually be good for this build if your main playstyle is hit and run.
Personally I dont use vampire, I do have dark cloak but its used as a purge, the more I have played the more I have gotten conditioned to stand and fight. When I need an exit Shadow Image + Cloak works wonders.
Soul Assault would probably be better if exchanged for Soul Tether or Bats, that way it'd by another defensive mechanism if needed. I am going to try Agony just to see what its like for awhile, I don't know anyone who uses it, which kinda makes me want to.. I have actually been playing around with Drain Essence in the Vampire skill line in that slot, not best in slot but is fun..
I suppose if you don't have Meteor then you could use Soul Assault for a ranged Ulti, but I agree that it's not optimal for PvP.
Interesting, but as ultimate, I'll suggest soul harvest for destro staff, and soul tether for heal staff bar. Because you can reflect, avoid, meteor, and soul assault, one bash or cc, and he gets interrupted.
Interesting, but as ultimate, I'll suggest soul harvest for destro staff, and soul tether for heal staff bar. Because you can reflect, avoid, meteor, and soul assault, one bash or cc, and he gets interrupted.
Yes, we've have some discussion since my original post with those two ultimates. I still like meteor in slot, as it's a great ranged ultimate and that's what this build is focused on. One thing we have been discussing is incorporating a hard CC so the Meteor could land. Something I am going to tinker with is actually going to be Agony, and Invigorating Drain, and the idea behind it would be to cast it right before/after casting a Meteor, that way they would have to break free and would be less likely to purify/cloak/streak/reflect out of the meteor. Another reason why I like it is the Empower it would give in using it, immediately following would be the use of Assassin's Will which would make it hit 20% harder..
Not slotting Soul Harvest is hard, but I am currently leaning towards slotting Bats as the other ultimate as a just in case type of defensive mechanism if needed...
KundaliniHero wrote: »Interesting, but as ultimate, I'll suggest soul harvest for destro staff, and soul tether for heal staff bar. Because you can reflect, avoid, meteor, and soul assault, one bash or cc, and he gets interrupted.
Yes, we've have some discussion since my original post with those two ultimates. I still like meteor in slot, as it's a great ranged ultimate and that's what this build is focused on. One thing we have been discussing is incorporating a hard CC so the Meteor could land. Something I am going to tinker with is actually going to be Agony, and Invigorating Drain, and the idea behind it would be to cast it right before/after casting a Meteor, that way they would have to break free and would be less likely to purify/cloak/streak/reflect out of the meteor. Another reason why I like it is the Empower it would give in using it, immediately following would be the use of Assassin's Will which would make it hit 20% harder..
Not slotting Soul Harvest is hard, but I am currently leaning towards slotting Bats as the other ultimate as a just in case type of defensive mechanism if needed...
Some combos I've used with success: cast Meteor and just before it lands cast Mass Hysteria. Another great combo is Bat Swarm + Sap Essence.