How do people play magicka dks?

Jade1986

Serious question here. I decided to give a magicka dk a shot recently.....and their damage output....is just so bad....i mean. I see lvl 13 sorcs putting out more damage than I am at 25 .

Is there an actual legit way of playing them? Or should I just give up now and return to my oh so ridiculously OP nb? The class seems like it could be a lot of fun, but its dots are SO bad with all the purges and damage reduction with cp and lava whip is less than lackluster.

Tips? Hints? Or just give up cuz it is really that bad.

Mojmir

dunmer dual staff wielder here, this was my first character since launch. I based mine off "pyromancer" builds, and at lvl 25 no class really shines while your leveling.

RoamingRiverElk

It just really is quite bad.

Jade1986

Mojmir wrote: »

dunmer dual staff wielder here, this was my first character since launch. I based mine off "pyromancer" builds, and at lvl 25 no class really shines while your leveling.

But they do kinda, I mean I have a magicka sorc, a magicka nb, a stam nb and a stam dk and ALL of them can dish out some damage at 25. But the dk....its like....."Hey guys, how do you like your pasta? Floppy as ***?" I mean....dot builds can be great, but these dots are just god damned awful. And dont get me started on the ridiculously high cost of dk standard.

Ill stick with it for the time being, but I really hope they buff this magicka class again. Cuz its shields are really bad, its heals are lackluster, its damage is sub par, hell even its tanky stuff is not that great. save for magma armor which is a life saver, but again, ridiculously high cost versus other crazy strong ultimates : cough : overload : cough :

flguy147ub17_ESO

This is frustrating for me too. I played one on PC launch and it was incredible but OP though. But came back a month ago on PS4 and read how bad they were so i went Stamina DK cause i really do love the DK class the most. But it sucks since i am stamina i really cant use the DK abilities cause all but 2 are magicka based. So yeah i can slot maybe 2 of them but it sucks cause i dont care much for the weapon skill lines. So i really really want to reroll a magicka DK cause it is what i want to play but really dont want to play a class/build that completely sucks in PVP. So i am thinking of just moving on from the game to another game now cause what i want to play is just too gimped. I dont need the OP class but just give me the class and build i want and just make it not suck. I would settle for average. The whole magicka vs stamina stuff i think was a mistake. Should have been able to play hybrid builds and make it viable.

Jade1986

flguy147ub17_ESO wrote: »

This is frustrating for me too. I played one on PC launch and it was incredible but OP though. But came back a month ago on PS4 and read how bad they were so i went Stamina DK cause i really do love the DK class the most. But it sucks since i am stamina i really cant use the DK abilities cause all but 2 are magicka based. So yeah i can slot maybe 2 of them but it sucks cause i dont care much for the weapon skill lines. So i really really want to reroll a magicka DK cause it is what i want to play but really dont want to play a class/build that completely sucks in PVP. So i am thinking of just moving on from the game to another game now cause what i want to play is just too gimped. I dont need the OP class but just give me the class and build i want and just make it not suck. I would settle for average. The whole magicka vs stamina stuff i think was a mistake. Should have been able to play hybrid builds and make it viable.

Its a hard life, I know. Magicka dk screams fun for me, I love it, but in pvp right now....my god.

Same *** happened to me in SWTOR, was obsessed with commando, only to eventually realize how god ass awful it was in pvp. Happens to me in all games I play, I end up falling in love with the bad classes for some reason, and absolutely HATE the fotm classes.

Chadwikid

Magicka DK is in a poor spot right now in pvp. That said it is my main and I love it. I love the underdog class I also just love Magicka DK. By far the coolest class in the game.

It can be played and can still be effective in most situations. It does however require much more skill and tactic than any other class at the moment. It truly is "hard mode." It's very dependent on cp for any sort of effective damage. DoTs are out the window completely just a waste of a bar slot. And unfortunately you need a rest staff as due 5o the 50% heal de buff in cyrodil DB is complete trash.

Playing a DK now is a game of tactics more than any other class. When to attack, when to heal, when to manage resources and how to bide time, when to attempt a "burst" (usually requires meteor or an ultimate of similar effect), when to cc and which to use, how to position yourself, how to counter each class and different builds. While playing my DK I'm always thinking, moves and counter moves.

Keys to pvp gameplay on a Magicka DK...cc, cc, cc. You are the king of it, learn to use it. Positioning is extremely important as well. Where to stand and how to get there. Exceptionally important against stamina builds especially WB spammers. You simply have no other defense. Resource management is also a key. Your the best at it period. Learn to use it and how to use it.

Good luck maybe I'll see you on the field

Alucardo

Whip needs a buff badly, and they could really use an execute, because you have no real way of "closing the deal" on a magicka DK. Except smash that whip button and hope they don't heal through it.

americansteel

DoTs DoTs DoTs 3 of em CP aswell. its hard, theDKs you see have the CP and rely on DoTs. CC burn talons.

Alucardo

americansteel wrote: »

DoTs DoTs DoTs 3 of em CP aswell. its hard, theDKs you see have the CP and rely on DoTs. CC burn talons.

A lot of damage does come from DoTs - keeping them aplied is important, but it's also why Nightblades are a pain in the booty. When they use cloak 100 times during your fight, they are actually purging your main source of damage at the same time.
Don't worry, they got high burst damage too so it won't last long.

Chadwikid

I have zero dots on my bar and am very effective. They have proven useless. Either due to removal (cloak purge cleanse) or champion points. To continuously keep them applied is just a waste of resources and time for what amounts to minimal damage at best.

Unfortunately most of the DKs damage does come from dots so that seriously gimps us and yes we are reliant on spamming the whip button mixed with cc. Burning talons does absolutely *** in pvp if your running it your a clown. Choking talons are better for the minor maim debuff.

I hope to see them make dots more viable...somehow. Buff whip and give us a true execute. That's among a great great many other things.

americansteel

Chadwikid wrote: »

I have zero dots on my bar and am very effective. They have proven useless. Either due to removal (cloak purge cleanse) or champion points. To continuously keep them applied is just a waste of resources and time for what amounts to minimal damage at best.

Unfortunately most of the DKs damage does come from dots so that seriously gimps us and yes we are reliant on spamming the whip button mixed with cc. Burning talons does absolutely *** in pvp if your running it your a clown. Choking talons are better for the minor maim debuff.

I hope to see them make dots more viable...somehow. Buff whip and give us a true execute. That's among a great great many other things.

the whip need to be hitting 10k-13k 4400 is a joke for DPS. thus i rely on 3 DoTs. i agree to an execute. i always run talons and no one has ran off on me then ill drop my standard which i rely on alot. AoE CC DoTs. such a hassle.

Jade1986

Gonna stick to it, because I like the in your face stand your ground playstyle, but *** me sideways....those nightblades.

Alucardo

altemriel

I have read here somewhere, that stam DKs are better, mag DKs are better for endgame content....but I play stam DK..

phillyproduct

Not sure if this is a troll thread or not?

Magic dk is probably the best dps(not counting sorc overload) in the game pve wise period

Great aoe, great dots, buff to dots, whips hits hard great sustain, great ult gen with weaving attacks, amazing excute with destro staff.

Not sure if yall serious right now

Dark elf is a must though but dark elf dk is top 3 dps in pve

PURPLE245

people always say go dark elf but does high elf not have a elemental passive? sure elemental is pretty much including flame?and they get more regen and max magic??

PURPLE245

Alucardo wrote: »

americansteel wrote: »

DoTs DoTs DoTs 3 of em CP aswell. its hard, theDKs you see have the CP and rely on DoTs. CC burn talons.

A lot of damage does come from DoTs - keeping them aplied is important, but it's also why Nightblades are a pain in the booty. When they use cloak 100 times during your fight, they are actually purging your main source of damage at the same time.
Don't worry, they got high burst damage too so it won't last long.

i find nbs a pain the booty no matter on the class i play its so rare i have a fight with a nb what does not open up without taking half my health wish i could start a fight with taking half mt opponents health gone would make my life much easier

phillyproduct

High elf gets 4percent i believe dark elf gets 7 to just fire,
Highelf gets 3percent more max magic and magic recovery
Dark elf gets 6percent more stam and stam regen

Dark elf a better choice since your buffing your main stat plus the extra stam

Islyn

phillyproduct wrote: »

Not sure if this is a troll thread or not?

Magic dk is probably the best dps(not counting sorc overload) in the game pve wise period

Great aoe, great dots, buff to dots, whips hits hard great sustain, great ult gen with weaving attacks, amazing excute with destro staff.

Not sure if yall serious right now

Dark elf is a must though but dark elf dk is top 3 dps in pve

Hrrr tell me more about this sustain of which you speak because using kena with top level gear (julianos, torug and kena or 2 kena depending on the healer and willpower) and Max cp in Regen without ele drain sustain is a pain.

Torbschka

I think we are talking about PvP here, in PvE magicka Dk's are toally fine, great DPS!

Well, it is really really really hard to play a mag DK well, as @Chadwikid said. I can totally agree on this! Nevertheless, especially in 1vs1 im "ok" with my build vs Nightblades/other DK's.

Example Video: [url="http://"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLX5JKFygUA[/url]
It is vs a well known and good NB on PS4 EU. (Usually I would have slotted Inferno for that duel, but i have forgotten it xD)

But my main Problem is if im in a duel vs a Templar or Sorc. There is basiccaly not enough DMG for me to pressure them, i ran out of ressources first if im whip them constantly. I can go full turle mode with my build for a while, but well, sorcs doing more dmg and being more tanky than me while stacking full dmg lol. Same for templars, they just outheal my dmg. Of course, I talk about "good ones", at least people who can play, "Bad ones" (no offense here) u can still kill with 1 meteor burst combo.

So for me, NB are okay. Mages and everthing that outheals your dmg is a problem for me.

My stats are like:
35k Magicka
18k Stamina
3100 Spell DMG buffed
22k and 28k HP (depends on bar)

All in 5 Heavy.

Last Words: I can just again agree with @Chadwikid , I really feel that i have to play and manage my resources so much better than the NB running around me spamming surprise attack + fear or the mage just stacking shields and go for a burst combo, it is a very hard playstyle right now!

SemiD4rkness

Level up then complain.... Idk what kind of mag DKs you guys fight, but I know a shieldstacking DK that hit whips for 7.5k, dude's a beast and if it wasn't for shieldbreaker I wouldn't be able to defeat him.

phillyproduct

Islyn wrote: »

phillyproduct wrote: »

Not sure if this is a troll thread or not?

Magic dk is probably the best dps(not counting sorc overload) in the game pve wise period

Great aoe, great dots, buff to dots, whips hits hard great sustain, great ult gen with weaving attacks, amazing excute with destro staff.

Not sure if yall serious right now

Dark elf is a must though but dark elf dk is top 3 dps in pve

Hrrr tell me more about this sustain of which you speak because using kena with top level gear (julianos, torug and kena or 2 kena depending on the healer and willpower) and Max cp in Regen without ele drain sustain is a pain.

1. Complaining about sustain when using molag kena is a unfair argument so i wont even address that.
2. Depending on group(my tank runs orb healer does too from time 2 time) other sorcs or dk's means ele drain will be up all the time.
3. Resto back back bar

Chadwikid

laced wrote: »

Gonna stick to it, because I like the in your face stand your ground playstyle, but *** me sideways....those nightblades.

Yea nightblades. They are a pain in everyone's ass. I personally find that Magicka nightblades are much much harder to fight than stam blades. If I can survives a stam blades initial burst I usually melt them after. I have run across are just ridiculous however. Mag blades I can't even see to fight 99% of the time. Yes there are counters I run them nor am I complaining. If you can get a hold of one (they're like wet eels) hey usually go down fairly quickly as well. As long as you keep the pressure on and maintain control of them.

phillyproduct wrote: »

Not sure if this is a troll thread or not?

Magic dk is probably the best dps(not counting sorc overload) in the game pve wise period

Great aoe, great dots, buff to dots, whips hits hard great sustain, great ult gen with weaving attacks, amazing excute with destro staff.

Not sure if yall serious right now

Dark elf is a must though but dark elf dk is top 3 dps in pve

It's pretty clear, if you read anything at all, that this particular post concerns Magicka DKs in PVP....so no this is not a "troll thread." Yes they are the best dps in pve. In pvp it's like playing with your feet tied together and one hand tied behind your back. Absolutely nothing in ^^this^^ has any value too bearing on what is being discussed. Thanks for the effort though.

SemiD4rkness wrote: »

Level up then complain.... Idk what kind of mag DKs you guys fight, but I know a shieldstacking DK that hit whips for 7.5k, dude's a beast and if it wasn't for shieldbreaker I wouldn't be able to defeat him.

Play a Magicka DK then come talk to us. Because you run up against one Magicka DK that stomps on your face doesn't mean that the class as a whole is in a good spot or that it is easy for that DK to pull off beating you. Nor does it mean that you have any clue whatsoever about what you are talking about. You don't by the way in case that wasn't clear by now. Also no one here is complaining. The OP was asking a question and stating his issues and asking for advice. Thank you for your effort as well.

The bottom line here is Magicka DKs can be played in pvp. They can be effective. It requires a lot of time, knowledge, practice, and skill to do so.

Magicka DKs need some serious help. Buff whip, DoTs are useless, fix DB, execute, fix scales, get rid of inferno and give us something else, stone fist needs help, inhale need help...he lost goes on and on. So all that said, class rebalancing is coming with thieves guild. We should be getting some info on what exactly they are planning in the coming weeks. Sit tight and hope, pray even, that zos did not have a case of *** cranium inversion while they were doing it.

Vynist

I recently leveled my magicka dk and experimented with heavy armor mainly. I was pretty tanky but my whips just tickled people; only time I got kills were Meteor -> Fossilize.

I switched to light armor thinking it would help my dps and make my whips hit harder. Basically I went from 2k whips to 2.5k whips (noncrit) lol.

Not gonna lie, after trying it for a week I started leveling my NB

Don't get me wrong, magicka DK's can be pretty good. If you're a solo pvp'er though, save your time for another class. Trust me. I didn't believe everyone until I tried it myself.

themdogesbite

The best way to play a mana DK is to not play it at all.

Angus

laced wrote: »

Serious question here. I decided to give a magicka dk a shot recently.....and their damage output....is just so bad....i mean. I see lvl 13 sorcs putting out more damage than I am at 25 .

Is there an actual legit way of playing them? Or should I just give up now and return to my oh so ridiculously OP nb? .

Magicka DK excels at two things in Cyrodiil, when compared to most other classes/builds:


1) Group CC - with talons, ignores enemy stun immunity.

Nightblade also has great group CC with fear. However, fear spreads enemies out, which is the exact opposite of talons. Depending on the situation, talons can be more useful to concentrate enemies (for your group to bomb).


2) Receives more healing than usual.

Thanks to passives and some morphs, DKs are able to get more out of most heals. This means in a group that you can trade off some traditional means of survivability (mitigation, self heals, etc) to focus on something else (probably #1).


It's pretty sub-par at everything else, when compared with other classes IMHO. It outperforms some other classes/builds in groups, and underperforms when solo.

Not that you can't roam and win 1v1's against bad opponents... but it's not well suited to it. It's generally lacking single target damage and finishers. It's like trying to become a competitive long distance runner as a midget.

Jade1986

SemiD4rkness wrote: »

Level up then complain.... Idk what kind of mag DKs you guys fight, but I know a shieldstacking DK that hit whips for 7.5k, dude's a beast and if it wasn't for shieldbreaker I wouldn't be able to defeat him.

Shieldstacking dk? What on earth are you talking about? Our shields do jack shite for protection.

Jade1986

Chadwikid wrote: »

laced wrote: »

Gonna stick to it, because I like the in your face stand your ground playstyle, but *** me sideways....those nightblades.

Yea nightblades. They are a pain in everyone's ass. I personally find that Magicka nightblades are much much harder to fight than stam blades. If I can survives a stam blades initial burst I usually melt them after. I have run across are just ridiculous however. Mag blades I can't even see to fight 99% of the time. Yes there are counters I run them nor am I complaining. If you can get a hold of one (they're like wet eels) hey usually go down fairly quickly as well. As long as you keep the pressure on and maintain control of them.

phillyproduct wrote: »

Not sure if this is a troll thread or not?

Magic dk is probably the best dps(not counting sorc overload) in the game pve wise period

Great aoe, great dots, buff to dots, whips hits hard great sustain, great ult gen with weaving attacks, amazing excute with destro staff.

Not sure if yall serious right now

Dark elf is a must though but dark elf dk is top 3 dps in pve

It's pretty clear, if you read anything at all, that this particular post concerns Magicka DKs in PVP....so no this is not a "troll thread." Yes they are the best dps in pve. In pvp it's like playing with your feet tied together and one hand tied behind your back. Absolutely nothing in ^^this^^ has any value too bearing on what is being discussed. Thanks for the effort though.

SemiD4rkness wrote: »

Level up then complain.... Idk what kind of mag DKs you guys fight, but I know a shieldstacking DK that hit whips for 7.5k, dude's a beast and if it wasn't for shieldbreaker I wouldn't be able to defeat him.

Play a Magicka DK then come talk to us. Because you run up against one Magicka DK that stomps on your face doesn't mean that the class as a whole is in a good spot or that it is easy for that DK to pull off beating you. Nor does it mean that you have any clue whatsoever about what you are talking about. You don't by the way in case that wasn't clear by now. Also no one here is complaining. The OP was asking a question and stating his issues and asking for advice. Thank you for your effort as well.

The bottom line here is Magicka DKs can be played in pvp. They can be effective. It requires a lot of time, knowledge, practice, and skill to do so.

Magicka DKs need some serious help. Buff whip, DoTs are useless, fix DB, execute, fix scales, get rid of inferno and give us something else, stone fist needs help, inhale need help...he lost goes on and on. So all that said, class rebalancing is coming with thieves guild. We should be getting some info on what exactly they are planning in the coming weeks. Sit tight and hope, pray even, that zos did not have a case of *** cranium inversion while they were doing it.

ZoS is starting to remind me of BW when it comes to classes, and DKs are the Commandos of this game, they are good in pve, so they pretty much say *** them for pvp. Blows my mind to be honest.

AbraXuSeXile

Your skills are perfectly fine damage, its because you cant go full dps like sorcs and nb with an escape route also is where you get screwed over.

Jade1986

AbraXuSeXile wrote: »

Your skills are perfectly fine damage, its because you cant go full dps like sorcs and nb with an escape route also is where you get screwed over.

DKs are not supposed to escape, they are supposed to stand their ground, unfortunately you cant even do that because our survivability abiliites are pretty lack luster.