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https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/668861
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – November 18
• ESO Store and Account System for maintenance – November 19, 9:00AM EST (14:00 UTC) - 6:00PM EST (23:00 UTC)
• PlayStation®: EU megaserver for maintenance – November 19, 23:00 UTC (6:00PM EST) - November 20, 17:00 UTC (12:00PM EST)
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/668861
It's about that time I badger about this issue again..
TheBonesXXX
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Collision Detection, it will reduce player congestion and traffic, weird physics are not helping the game.
And.. additive algorithms, ESO math just needs to go back to simple DnD math and not stray away from simple formulas.
And.. additive algorithms, ESO math just needs to go back to simple DnD math and not stray away from simple formulas.
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Draxys✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Is this a joke? Collision will exponentially increase player congestion and traffic because everyone takes up space that can't be occupied by anyone else.2013
rip decibel5 -
TheBonesXXX✭✭✭✭✭
✭Is this a joke? Collision will exponentially increase player congestion and traffic because everyone takes up space that can't be occupied by anyone else.
Have you played with CD in a PvP environment before?
CD forces people to spread out because of how much control it gives players over the landscape. No one is going to play stack on the crown because they simply cant, concentrated zerg spam will no longer be an issue because they simply wont be able to move that many numbers across a small area.
It will force smaller groups because it always has and always will.
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Tankqull✭✭✭✭✭
✭CD will not help at all in fact it will increase the server side calculations by factor 100x leading to even moe horrible situation than now lag wise.spelling and grammar errors are free to be abused
Sallington wrote: »Anything useful that players are wanting added into the game all fall under the category of "Yer ruinin my 'mersion!"2 -
Lucky28✭✭✭✭✭
✭Yeah, and watch all the people pile up in front of a door i need to use or a wayshrine. no thank you, that would be freakin' terrible.Edited by Lucky28 on 11 January 2016 11:52Invictus0 -
Draxys✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭TheBonesXXX wrote: »Is this a joke? Collision will exponentially increase player congestion and traffic because everyone takes up space that can't be occupied by anyone else.
Have you played with CD in a PvP environment before?
CD forces people to spread out because of how much control it gives players over the landscape. No one is going to play stack on the crown because they simply cant, concentrated zerg spam will no longer be an issue because they simply wont be able to move that many numbers across a small area.
It will force smaller groups because it always has and always will.
I get that but think about the big picture for a minute. Everyone in a campaign congregates in one or two spots on the map, mainly because there's nothing else to freaking do. That would be a nightmare with collision, and would deny many people the ability to even contribute or fight at all. And the inside of keeps and outposts would be inaccessible at times due to the amount of players there. If there were other things to do on the map, collision could be considered, but even if there were that content, you wouldn't need collision because spread out objectives would solve the issue.2013
rip decibel0 -
TheBonesXXX✭✭✭✭✭
✭CD will not help at all in fact it will increase the server side calculations by factor 100x leading to even moe horrible situation than now lag wise.
What will really happen is less people will be hit by skills and the server wont have to register as much data, especially if they simplify their algorithms like the second part of my post.
Complex algorithms are the other half of the problem, less things the computer has to compute the the better. CD will force people to spread out, thus less people getting hit by skills.
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TheBonesXXX✭✭✭✭✭
✭TheBonesXXX wrote: »Is this a joke? Collision will exponentially increase player congestion and traffic because everyone takes up space that can't be occupied by anyone else.
Have you played with CD in a PvP environment before?
CD forces people to spread out because of how much control it gives players over the landscape. No one is going to play stack on the crown because they simply cant, concentrated zerg spam will no longer be an issue because they simply wont be able to move that many numbers across a small area.
It will force smaller groups because it always has and always will.
I get that but think about the big picture for a minute. Everyone in a campaign congregates in one or two spots on the map, mainly because there's nothing else to freaking do. That would be a nightmare with collision, and would deny many people the ability to even contribute or fight at all. And the inside of keeps and outposts would be inaccessible at times due to the amount of players there. If there were other things to do on the map, collision could be considered, but even if there were that content, you wouldn't need collision because spread out objectives would solve the issue.
Lack of content can also be contributed to lack of player control due to trying to appease everyone, should players have more control over the field. Others would come up with counter attacks and it can result in better and lengthier fights, I can easily use Asherons Call, Shadowbane, DAoC, and UO as prime examples of testosterone fueled PVP with Asherons Call and Darkfall being my examples of why CD forces people to spread.
I will use an example, people are denying crossing on the bridge between Alessia and Sejanus. A counter force would move across the bridge south of Sejanus-Alessia bridge and stifle the denial.
There are so many natural bottlenecks in this game that can't be used in a complete tactical situation even though its obvious in Cyrodiils design that is how its meant to be.
The big picture is Zenimax has had years to accomplish content, they have not accomplished content that was promised to us, unless you consider the PvX in IC (which is a craptastic koreanesque grindfest). With systems already failing, there is no harm in testing CD and simpler algorithms in this game.
No matter how much spread content they add, it gets boring because the heart of good PVP is good strategy and player made conflicts.
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Zyle✭✭✭✭✭Collision Detection = more calculation = more lag. There are 100+ other more important issues than adding more lag to the game.
676 CP
Zyle - LVL50 Stamina Nightblade - Former Emp AS - VMA Clear (Flawless)
Joven - LVL50 Hybrid Templar
Adion - LVL50 Stamina DK
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Vanikath - LVL50 Magicka DK0 -
TheBonesXXX✭✭✭✭✭
✭bchulettub17_ESO wrote: »Collision Detection = more calculation = more lag. There are 100+ other more important issues than adding more lag to the game.
Collision Detect + Simpler Damage Algorithms = Results in Spread People and Spread Calculation resulting in Less lag.0 -
Imdrefan✭✭✭TheBonesXXX wrote: »bchulettub17_ESO wrote: »Collision Detection = more calculation = more lag. There are 100+ other more important issues than adding more lag to the game.
Collision Detect + Simpler Damage Algorithms = Results in Spread People and Spread Calculation resulting in Less lag.
Calculations aside, the griefing would be astronomical. That alone should deter anyone from wanting this.
Oh? The keep is being sieged? And you could wipe them? Don't mind me and my *** friends as we block every exit...Drefan - VR14 AD Templar
Decibel
Dark Flare to the Face0 -
Jura23✭✭✭✭✭
✭I think they should at least test CD. I'd love to find a way how to successfully implement it. Would be great.TheBonesXXX wrote: »bchulettub17_ESO wrote: »Collision Detection = more calculation = more lag. There are 100+ other more important issues than adding more lag to the game.
Collision Detect + Simpler Damage Algorithms = Results in Spread People and Spread Calculation resulting in Less lag.
Calculations aside, the griefing would be astronomical. That alone should deter anyone from wanting this.
Oh? The keep is being sieged? And you could wipe them? Don't mind me and my *** friends as we block every exit...
Maybe if ZOS started to punish griefing, among aother things, it wouldn't be such a problem.
yeah, I know, funny idea
Edited by Jura23 on 11 January 2016 13:35Georgion - Bosmer/Templar - PC/EU0 -
TheBonesXXX✭✭✭✭✭
✭I think they should at least test CD. I'd love to find a way how to successfully implement it. Would be great.TheBonesXXX wrote: »bchulettub17_ESO wrote: »Collision Detection = more calculation = more lag. There are 100+ other more important issues than adding more lag to the game.
Collision Detect + Simpler Damage Algorithms = Results in Spread People and Spread Calculation resulting in Less lag.
Calculations aside, the griefing would be astronomical. That alone should deter anyone from wanting this.
Oh? The keep is being sieged? And you could wipe them? Don't mind me and my *** friends as we block every exit...
Maybe if ZOS started to punish griefing, among aother things, it wouldn't be such a problem.
yeah, I know, funny idea
That's all I'm really vying for, enable CD and simplified algorithms and I'm willing to bet they can get the lag to die instantly, but test it on the PTS.
It is worth the test.
Edited by TheBonesXXX on 11 January 2016 18:050 -
TheBonesXXX✭✭✭✭✭
✭TheBonesXXX wrote: »bchulettub17_ESO wrote: »Collision Detection = more calculation = more lag. There are 100+ other more important issues than adding more lag to the game.
Collision Detect + Simpler Damage Algorithms = Results in Spread People and Spread Calculation resulting in Less lag.
Calculations aside, the griefing would be astronomical. That alone should deter anyone from wanting this.
Oh? The keep is being sieged? And you could wipe them? Don't mind me and my *** friends as we block every exit...
Because it is a ton better than a bunch of tools coming at you with an angry two button zergtrain that completely lag the server because nothing can deter it.
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Tankqull✭✭✭✭✭
✭TheBonesXXX wrote: »bchulettub17_ESO wrote: »Collision Detection = more calculation = more lag. There are 100+ other more important issues than adding more lag to the game.
Collision Detect + Simpler Damage Algorithms = Results in Spread People and Spread Calculation resulting in Less lag.
nope - thats the problem. collision detection creates more server stress than anything else (maybe beside a true AI)
what you not get is that you are adding 10x calculations per sec for a single player while you only get rid of 1 persec so your outcome is even more horrific than it is now.spelling and grammar errors are free to be abused
Sallington wrote: »Anything useful that players are wanting added into the game all fall under the category of "Yer ruinin my 'mersion!"0 -
TheBonesXXX✭✭✭✭✭
✭TheBonesXXX wrote: »bchulettub17_ESO wrote: »Collision Detection = more calculation = more lag. There are 100+ other more important issues than adding more lag to the game.
Collision Detect + Simpler Damage Algorithms = Results in Spread People and Spread Calculation resulting in Less lag.
nope - thats the problem. collision detection creates more server stress than anything else (maybe beside a true AI)
what you not get is that you are adding 10x calculations per sec for a single player while you only get rid of 1 persec so your outcome is even more horrific than it is now.
It calculates where you are on a map, yes, but it is hardly as stressful as you think. I can easily name games that can handle more numbers in a single area with CD than ESO can at the current moment, with more skills and damage calculated into the game.0 -
Spacemonkey✭✭✭✭✭this is already coded. We used to have no collision with mobs either because they were worried wed get stuck by npcs and stuff like that.
They eventually responded to the community, also finiding it made fighting more wortwhile (and possibly more challenging) and added the collision on mobs. And I dont have the notes on this but I'm 95% sure they mentionned when they did it, that it was already coded and enabled it - but that they wouldnt add it to players because of the issues in crowded areas.
(imagine the door blocking stategies that would arise ect....) Or how complicated it would be to get to transitus shrines etc...
It's kind of a double edged sword imo.
I'm all for TRYING it, but it might have already been tried and judged too aggravating on the PTS
I know in PvE I definitly do NOT want it. you'll have to wait hours to manage talking to a merchant or accessing the bank0 -
TheBonesXXX✭✭✭✭✭
✭Spacemonkey wrote: »this is already coded. We used to have no collision with mobs either because they were worried wed get stuck by npcs and stuff like that.
They eventually responded to the community, also finiding it made fighting more wortwhile (and possibly more challenging) and added the collision on mobs. And I dont have the notes on this but I'm 95% sure they mentionned when they did it, that it was already coded and enabled it - but that they wouldnt add it to players because of the issues in crowded areas.
(imagine the door blocking stategies that would arise ect....) Or how complicated it would be to get to transitus shrines etc...
It's kind of a double edged sword imo.
I'm all for TRYING it, but it might have already been tried and judged too aggravating on the PTS
I know in PvE I definitly do NOT want it. you'll have to wait hours to manage talking to a merchant or accessing the bank
It has not been tried and that's all I'm vying for is to *try* it. What is it going to hurt in a PTS? Nothing.0 -
Xvorg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭TheBonesXXX wrote: »bchulettub17_ESO wrote: »Collision Detection = more calculation = more lag. There are 100+ other more important issues than adding more lag to the game.
Collision Detect + Simpler Damage Algorithms = Results in Spread People and Spread Calculation resulting in Less lag.
What would prevent spies from other factions to stack at a door, preventing people from entering a keep/post in PVP?
Just imagine a barrier like that in Sej.Sarcasm is something too serious to be taken lightly
I was born with the wrong sign
In the wrong house
With the wrong ascendancy
I took the wrong road
That led to the wrong tendencies
I was in the wrong place at the wrong time
For the wrong reason and the wrong rhyme
On the wrong day of the wrong week
Used the wrong method with the wrong technique0 -
TheBonesXXX✭✭✭✭✭
✭TheBonesXXX wrote: »bchulettub17_ESO wrote: »Collision Detection = more calculation = more lag. There are 100+ other more important issues than adding more lag to the game.
Collision Detect + Simpler Damage Algorithms = Results in Spread People and Spread Calculation resulting in Less lag.
What would prevent spies from other factions to stack at a door, preventing people from entering a keep/post in PVP?
Just imagine a barrier like that in Sej.
Thats simple, go back to faction bound accounts.0 -
Amica✭✭✭TheBonesXXX wrote: »Collision Detection, it will reduce player congestion and traffic, weird physics are not helping the game.
And.. additive algorithms, ESO math just needs to go back to simple DnD math and not stray away from simple formulas.
A better plan would be to give the players the option on who should be fired and replaced at ZOS... That would net better results.NB Shashu of DC
DK William x Wallace of DC
In game @Amica.
"i Thought i was poor having no shoe's, Until i saw a man with no feet"0 -
Stigant✭✭✭✭Negatives aside, This could be relly interesting thing ... Area of AoE effects would determine how many players can be affected, no AoE caps would be needed at all ... Breaching Walls and Gates would get another element of "pushing trought the breach" which could lead to some interesting new tactics ... no more "stack-on-the-crown" balls/zergs hidden behind one tree .. I can think of a lot of possitives that would come to PvP with colision detection ...0 -
Xvorg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭TheBonesXXX wrote: »TheBonesXXX wrote: »bchulettub17_ESO wrote: »Collision Detection = more calculation = more lag. There are 100+ other more important issues than adding more lag to the game.
Collision Detect + Simpler Damage Algorithms = Results in Spread People and Spread Calculation resulting in Less lag.
What would prevent spies from other factions to stack at a door, preventing people from entering a keep/post in PVP?
Just imagine a barrier like that in Sej.
Thats simple, go back to faction bound accounts.
That's not even a solution, although ZOs would make a lot of money selling "any race, any faction" in the barbie shopSarcasm is something too serious to be taken lightly
I was born with the wrong sign
In the wrong house
With the wrong ascendancy
I took the wrong road
That led to the wrong tendencies
I was in the wrong place at the wrong time
For the wrong reason and the wrong rhyme
On the wrong day of the wrong week
Used the wrong method with the wrong technique0 -
TheBonesXXX✭✭✭✭✭
✭Negatives aside, This could be relly interesting thing ... Area of AoE effects would determine how many players can be affected, no AoE caps would be needed at all ... Breaching Walls and Gates would get another element of "pushing trought the breach" which could lead to some interesting new tactics ... no more "stack-on-the-crown" balls/zergs hidden behind one tree .. I can think of a lot of possitives that would come to PvP with colision detection ...
You get it, CD is anti-cheese. No more spampulse-badswarm-crapnado, AoE zerg balls running around like there have been for the last couple of years.. (to include alpha and betas). So many borked mechanics can be avoided because some guy cannot exploit poorly implemented tactics to begin with.
If a person can't reach 20 people at once because of good physics, then the game can longer function for them in their favor, it will weed out the strong and the weak and add a proper element to PVP that is missing in ESO.
The positives outweigh the negatives, it would require tactics.0 -
TheBonesXXX✭✭✭✭✭
✭TheBonesXXX wrote: »TheBonesXXX wrote: »bchulettub17_ESO wrote: »Collision Detection = more calculation = more lag. There are 100+ other more important issues than adding more lag to the game.
Collision Detect + Simpler Damage Algorithms = Results in Spread People and Spread Calculation resulting in Less lag.
What would prevent spies from other factions to stack at a door, preventing people from entering a keep/post in PVP?
Just imagine a barrier like that in Sej.
Thats simple, go back to faction bound accounts.
That's not even a solution, although ZOs would make a lot of money selling "any race, any faction" in the barbie shop
It is the first step of a multi-part solution. Being able to play all sides of the fence is nothing more than a detriment to multi-faction War based PvP. Otherwise it completely trivializes War of Three Banners cannon.
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