Better group leader or better player to win in PVP?

KillKapps

Better players

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

KillKapps wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

Jura23 wrote: »

Good group leader is somebody who isn't good enough to call himself good player.

Lol I run solo and find this funny...

Once again, running solo is completely different from being ungrouped in a zerg... learn the difference please.

I don't run where the zergs go, I run wherever the action is, I even play in other alliances buff servers. You haven't seen me play in months so you sound stupid just from that reason.

Whether or not you would like to admit it, I am better than you in every sense. And I play the weakest class in the game right now.

ThePonzzz

KillKapps wrote: »

Rylana wrote: »

A good leader can take even the ragtag and make them do amazing things.

Even the best players, without coordination, will be cut to pieces without someone to direct the objective.

That's zerg zerg zerg zerg zerg zerg though. Good leaders leading ragtag is just a zerg.

Zerg is still 25+ people though. Good leader can take 12 people into victory.

KillKapps

Better players

A good leader can not take a 12v12 of 11 of his terrible players into a group of 12 highly skilled players. A leader cant make you understand your class if you already don't.

Farorin

Better group leaders

Group leaders are the most important, so long as the players are willing to listen to the leader.

No matter how good the leader is, they will lose if the players aren't following orders or can't at least play basically.

CatchMeTrolling

Better group leaders

KillKapps wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

Actually @KillKapps if you're so "good" come play in haderus and not against pve players in buff campaigns btw haderus is completely DC dominated right now you try hard

Sounds like a challenge. I accept. When the campaigns reset, you better be there.

No where else to go

KillKapps wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

KillKapps wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

Jura23 wrote: »

Good group leader is somebody who isn't good enough to call himself good player.

Lol I run solo and find this funny...

Once again, running solo is completely different from being ungrouped in a zerg... learn the difference please.

I don't run where the zergs go, I run wherever the action is, I even play in other alliances buff servers. You haven't seen me play in months so you sound stupid just from that reason.

Whether or not you would like to admit it, I am better than you in every sense. And I play the weakest class in the game right now.

You're not better , you pick on players that don't know how to play the game. And I play a Templar which can also be debatable as the weakest class. Not only that your alliance typically stacks the better players in one alliance and I don't see the fun in that when half the time you're fighting pugs.

And you won't know what a challenge is until you're getting jumped by two alliances at your home keep daily.

demustacio

Better group leaders

Now now guys, @KillKapps and @CatchMeTrolling

Let's stick with the discussion xD

LarsS

Better group leaders

Both leader and group members matter, some examples.
1. Random group (lfg) with members all over the map, bad leader and bad ap.
2. Random group working together due to a good leader can achive decent results.
3. Random group with many on voice com can be quite good if the leader is good.
4. Guild group with people who know each other and have adapted skills to the group can be awesome. The leaders role is in this case more the coordinator and is no longer that important.

That sums up my experience.

Akinos

If I could vote both I would. Being a good leader and a good player go hand in hand. Nobody starts off being a good leader or a good player. But being a good player usually comes before being a good leader. In my experience most good leaders are also good players, like 9/10 times. If they choose to be a leader that is. You can't lead people into situations and expect victory if you yourself doesn't know what's going on or what to do.
I know a ton of good players that have the ability and potential to be fantastic leaders, problem is that they normally don't view themselves as leaders. Many people are content to just being followers.

Snit

Better group leaders

The best leaders develop better players. They tend to attract talent as well. TESO leadership mimics the business world, at least in this one respect.

This also expands the concept of "good leaders" beyond knowing how to command an engagement, and into organizational skills and personality traits. TESO has plenty of people with good expertise but crap personalities.

Islyn

Minno wrote: »

3rd option should have said "both".
It's a " chicken or the egg" argument because you can have an amazing leader, but if the players are low lvl gear-less noobs you can kiss any success goodbye. And obviously vice-versa.

Moral of the story? L2P lol

Exactly, you need crown who knows what call to make, and people in raid who are capable of following crown AND doing their part as told.

Islyn

KillKapps wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

Actually @KillKapps if you're so "good" come play in haderus and not against pve players in buff campaigns btw haderus is completely DC dominated right now you try hard

Sounds like a challenge. I accept. When the campaigns reset, you better be there.

Also, I know killkapps from my early days (na ad pc unless I am just misremembering) and yeah. This should be interesting. :-)

KillKapps

Better players

Islyn wrote: »

KillKapps wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

Actually @KillKapps if you're so "good" come play in haderus and not against pve players in buff campaigns btw haderus is completely DC dominated right now you try hard

Sounds like a challenge. I accept. When the campaigns reset, you better be there.

Also, I know killkapps from my early days (na ad pc unless I am just misremembering) and yeah. This should be interesting. :-)

Yup, that's me. I am playing on Xbox NA now though b/c my PC was a potato.

KillKapps

Better players

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

KillKapps wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

Actually @KillKapps if you're so "good" come play in haderus and not against pve players in buff campaigns btw haderus is completely DC dominated right now you try hard

Sounds like a challenge. I accept. When the campaigns reset, you better be there.

No where else to go

KillKapps wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

KillKapps wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

Jura23 wrote: »

Good group leader is somebody who isn't good enough to call himself good player.

Lol I run solo and find this funny...

Once again, running solo is completely different from being ungrouped in a zerg... learn the difference please.

I don't run where the zergs go, I run wherever the action is, I even play in other alliances buff servers. You haven't seen me play in months so you sound stupid just from that reason.

Whether or not you would like to admit it, I am better than you in every sense. And I play the weakest class in the game right now.

You're not better , you pick on players that don't know how to play the game. And I play a Templar which can also be debatable as the weakest class. Not only that your alliance typically stacks the better players in one alliance and I don't see the fun in that when half the time you're fighting pugs.

And you won't know what a challenge is until you're getting jumped by two alliances at your home keep daily.

I played PC for over a year... The purple alliance was a thing for a reason. You misunderstand the time I have invested in this game due to the fact that I took a 2 month break. I was in what was debatably the best AD guild on PC against the other best guilds on the other factions. I have beaten good players.

I only pick on the buff servers because: 1. They are generally easier to find good, outnumbered combat. 2. FAR less laggy. (Haderus is a *** nightmare). 3. The AP is way too damn easy to get when nobody else is stealing your defense tics. 4. I like making a statement in cyrodiil to all the PvE people to stay the *** out of my domain.

demustacio

Better group leaders

Akinos wrote: »

If I could vote both I would. Being a good leader and a good player go hand in hand. Nobody starts off being a good leader or a good player. But being a good player usually comes before being a good leader. In my experience most good leaders are also good players, like 9/10 times. If they choose to be a leader that is. You can't lead people into situations and expect victory if you yourself doesn't know what's going on or what to do.
I know a ton of good players that have the ability and potential to be fantastic leaders, problem is that they normally don't view themselves as leaders. Many people are content to just being followers.

Yes, i agree with you. A good leader have both aspects of being a leader and a good player. But the fact remains, not all of the good players are good leader. I have encountered a lot of good players in my faction playing the way he wants. So good at 1v1 and 1 v X. But there was this one time when he got lead and decided to lead, all of our keeps started to turn into enemy's hand and in the end we lost both of our scrolls. He told the group that "we need action, not playing horse and capturing keeps". Because of this we created a new group with another guy who's just an average player as a leader but was outstanding in leading. The group mates listened to him and in about and we organized and are able to capture keeps without much strugle. I wont say names.

This is just an example that a leader can be a huge, huge factor for a faction to win the campaign. I personally wished i was that good at leading.

Also, I often see or be in a group that are being wiped. But just before getting totally wiped, the 'ace' of our faction came in solo and did an amazing job helping our group win the battle by his pure skill. Though i do believe that even if he's able to help us, he can't solo that much players alone.

As a conclusion, as a leader you have the obligation to make the tough calls and get your group together. As a follower, you have the obligation to follow your leader and decide wether the leader needs to be changed or not. If both the leaders and players are able to communicate, i'm sure wonders will come out within that group. I do however, still hold into my opinion that group leaders are the one that make the faction win campaigns.

kaithuzar

Better group leaders

Just wanted to say my favorite part of the game is leading a group. Whether it's pugs or with any of my guilds; the strategy that goes along with using the people you have to do what you can. It's like you are not fighting with other players on the field you are fighting against an opposing faction's leader/tactician; a battle of the minds. Often times I lead while smoking a cigarette outside. Information is power so it's easy to lead while not looking at the screen because of people feeding me info in teamspeak. Come lead a group with me or against me I enjoy a good tactical challenge!