Experiment: The definitive Teleport Strike Thread

Crown

Rather than have a LOT of information about multiple skills / morphs / idiocy in one big thread that makes it hard for the ZOS people to work with the information, I've started this thread to discuss a specific skill and its relevant morphs. I'll update this first post every day or two with anything useful or relevant that comes out of the thread to make life easier for the ZOS people doing the class rebalance / skill rework activities.

@ZOS_GinaBruno is there a way to give an individual moderation privileges for only one thread? I'm sure we can imagine the gross idiocy that will result in some responses, or the useless trolling that will come up. Deleting those posts would make this a lot better / more useful to your compatriots who will - I hope - value the information that comes of this thread. -- The answer was no, but thanks for letting us know!

At present, we know that all morphs of the skill (and any gap closer) put a brief snare on the target in order to prevent them from going out of range. It was suggested that this thread be changed to "gap closers" and not simply the NB skill, though the purpose of the idea / experiment was to discuss particular skills one by one to help with balance thoughts / planning / information for the ZOS people doing so.

1. All gap closers are broken. Thanks @Tankqull for pointing out that the debuff is called "charge snare". All gap closers currently apply this debuff (snare) on you that prevents you from moving out of range while the player charges towards you. This causes rather.. stupid.. situations when gap closers (such as the one that this post is about) are spammed on a target. While I'm sure that most of us agree that the snare has to go, that brings back the issue of people moving our of range of a gap closer. In that case, should the gap closer take you farther than it is intended, or should it fizzle/fail with no effect? The general opinion of long term players who are reasonably intelligent and have good common sense is that this gap closer should, being as you are teleporting through the shadows, bring you to wherever the target ends up if they move out of range.

Note that @Wrobel wrote: Currently gap closers apply a -100% movement speed debuff for .5 seconds. This snare cannot be avoided or reduced by any abilities, so it locks your character in place. It works this way because we want charges to reliably hit enemies. It means if 2 players are casting Ambush on a target every half second, they will not be able to move. This is too strong of a lockdown and we would like to relax it, while still making charge abilities get to the target. To accomplish this, we'll be reducing the snare to -60% and increase the duration to .75 seconds. This will make it feel more responsive as a person being charged because you can still control your character instead of getting stuck in place. With the change you can move slightly further with 1 person charging you, and much further if multiple enemies are charging you. Note that these values aren't final and we will be adjusting based on PTS feedback. The general opinion of long term players who are reasonably intelligent and have good common sense is that there should be no need for the snare unless a skill specifically snares you (such as Lotus Fan). Gap closers that move overland to the target (invasion / rush / charge) should not have a snare built in. If the target moves out of range, then an overland charge should stop at the maximum range that said charge has per its tooltip. Your character used energy to get that far, and that's as far as said energy (whatever resource) got him/her.

2. Some people spam this ability in order to keep NBs from cloaking / stealthing away. Should a gap closer cast on a player who enters stealth complete and pull the player out of stealth? In the case of Teleport Strike (and morphs), it seems reasonable that it would, as the caster "moves through the shadows" to the target. Other charges probably should fizzle, and they are moving directly overland to the target, but in this case, it seems reasonable based on the description of the skill that if you're going to teleport to a target who moved, you complete your teleport even if they're in stealth. That brings us to the question of if you are teleporting to a stealthed target, should this skill pull the target out of stealth or should you need to cast an AoE that damages them afterwards in order to do so? The general opinion of long term players who are reasonably intelligent and have good common sense is that MOST gap closers should not pull a target out of stealth. They are intended to move you to the target (or where the target was), and if the target stealthed then you should need to cast something to reveal them (most AoE). This spell may be different, as it does damage when you come out of the shadows at the target. If the target is stealthed, then the damage from TS/Ambush/Lotus should probably miss the target. Lotus Fan has an AoE component though, so that morph could miss on the initial strike, though the AoE / DoT should probably still hit the target and potentially pull them out of stealth. This is something that needs to be tested (is it feasible for it to work like that @Wrobel?)..

3. Some people spam this ability in order to keep sorcerers from streaking away. This is related to #1 above, though lets leave it as a separate issue for now as it's a clearly defined example that can be discussed. Should this gap closer take you farther than it is intended if the target streaks, or should it fizzle/fail with no effect? As described above, if you're moving through the shadows (effectively teleporting), then yes, it should bring you to wherever the target ended up. Overland charges should bring you to the place that the streaker started - or potentially farther up to the maximum tooltip distance of the skill/spell.

4. Some people use this ability to get through doors. If you know the timing, you can get through a door following a target every time. While this does seem wrong at times, you are teleporting to a target after a cast delay. If the target is on the other side of a door between the time you cast and when the animation ends, you should be wherever your target happens to be at that time. Discuss.. This one is still up for discussion. The current majority thought is that a TELEPORT should bring you through walls at times if you target moves through a door during the time that you're "in the shadows" / in transit. It's happened many times that a NB teleporting through a door ends up dead before he/she can escape. That's a risk that they should accept if they're using this skill on someone who is beside a door. Other charges that move overland would of course be stopped by a door.

SemiD4rkness

And people don't need them to fight a DK/Templar lmao

ZOS_GinaBruno

Crown wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno is there a way to give an individual moderation privileges for only one thread? I'm sure we can imagine the gross idiocy that will result in some responses, or the useless trolling that will come up. Deleting those posts would make this a lot better / more useful to your compatriots who will - I hope - value the information that comes of this thread.

Unfortunately not. If you come across a post that you feel should be removed for whatever reason, please use the Report feature at the bottom right-hand corner of the post and put a brief explanation of why you feel it should be removed. This will go straight to the moderation team.

Thanks, and looking forward to reading everyone's feedback!

Tankqull

Crown wrote: »

Rather than have a LOT of information about multiple skills / morphs / idiocy in one big thread that makes it hard for the ZOS people to work with the information, I've started this thread to discuss a specific skill and its relevant morphs.

I'll update this first post every day or two with anything useful or relevant that comes out of the thread to make life easier for the ZOS people doing the class rebalance / skill rework activities.

@ZOS_GinaBruno is there a way to give an individual moderation privileges for only one thread? I'm sure we can imagine the gross idiocy that will result in some responses, or the useless trolling that will come up. Deleting those posts would make this a lot better / more useful to your compatriots who will - I hope - value the information that comes of this thread.

At present, we know that all morphs of the skill (and any gap closer) put a brief snare on the target in order to prevent them from going out of range.

Some people spam this ability in order to keep NBs from cloaking / stealthing away.

Some people spam this ability in order to keep sorcerers from streaking away.

Some people use this ability to get through doors.

More to come as more people post. I'll add more opinions of my own later on..

Sorry but that is the only TS related issue in your post, do you actually feel it is worth creating a thread for? (or would you mind changing the title as its actually gapcloser related thread)
every other point in your list is tied to any gap closer simply by keeping your "s-button"(or what ever your backstep is tied to) pushed while spamming a gapcloser as it circumvents the minimum range issue completly ´cause you are out of the 5m box befor your ability CD is over.

Crown wrote: »

At present, any gap closer put a brief snare on the target in order to prevent them from going out of range.

Some people spam this ability in order to keep NBs from cloaking / stealthing away.

Some people spam this ability in order to keep sorcerers from streaking away.

Some people use this ability to get through doors.

More to come as more people post. I'll add more opinions of my own later on..

Crown wrote: »

At present, we know that all morphs of the skill (and any gap closer) put a brief snare on the target in order to prevent them from going out of range.

this is the issue to be talked about - and it should NOT be tied to TS exclusively as it will only lead to a nerf of this specific style and not a fix to all gap closers both side could live with(the charger and the charged one).

to precise your statement a bit "negative" effect is called charge snare:


but it is either a 99% snare witch is essentially a root or it is a true root wich is nothing but a 100% snare. either way its secondary effect a silence is way worse as it denys any ability use during the time of being charged, it cancels any non instant ability started before but not yet finished and abilitys with a aplication delays like bolt escape(and morphes) or rushed ceremony(and morphs) aswell.

TheBull

The skill is not the problem. It never has been. It's the change that Wrobel made that gave gap closers a .3-.5sec stun. That's the problem. It needs to be reverted.

Ambush/Lotus spam has never been a valid tactic and also has been the sign of a bad NB. Well that's until the gap closer change...

@Crown if you want to have a constructive thread that addresses the issue, you may want to change the title to "gap closers"

Crown

@TheBull Added to top post and changed #1

At present, we know that all morphs of the skill (and any gap closer) put a brief snare on the target in order to prevent them from going out of range. It was suggested that this thread be changed to "gap closers" and not simply the NB skill, though the purpose of the idea / experiment was to discuss particular skills one by one to help with balance thoughts / planning / information for the ZOS people doing so.

1. All gap closers are broken. Thanks @Tankqull for pointing out that the debuff is called "charge snare". All gap closers currently apply this debuff (snare) on you that prevents you from moving out of range while the player charges towards you. This causes rather.. stupid.. situations when gap closers (such as the one that this post is about) are spammed on a target. While I'm sure that most of us agree that the snare has to go, that brings back the issue of people moving our of range of a gap closer. In that case, should the gap closer take you farther than it is intended, or should it fizzle/fail with no effect?

Minno

TheBull wrote: »

The skill is not the problem. It never has been. It's the change that Wrobel made that gave gap closers a .3-.5sec stun. That's the problem. It needs to be reverted.

Ambush/Lotus spam has never been a valid tactic and also has been the sign of a bad NB. Well that's until the gap closer change...

@Crown if you want to have a constructive thread that addresses the issue, you may want to change the title to "gap closers"

Well most players don't have an issue with ambush itself. Every class should have a gap closer mechanic that works.

Minimum distance is one issue; fact that ambush has none. It exacerbates the gap closer stuns.

Another issue, is the stealth mechanic ZOS put in. Utilizing AC, you can fire off a few casts of abilities and still have them all be considered " attacked from stealth" thus receiving a significant buff to dmg (NB specific.). It should be, once your first cast is pressed, you are out of stealth. No ifs ands or buts.

And it brings up cloak allowing that stealth buff happening over and over. Should it only allow you to go invisible but not in stealth? Fix the first issues then lets discuss cloaks issues (I'm OK with cloak btw because there's viable counters.)

Tankqull

Minno wrote: »

Well most players don't have an issue with ambush itself. Every class should have a gap closer mechanic that works.

Minimum distance is one issue; fact that ambush has none. It exacerbates the gap closer stuns.

Another issue, is the stealth mechanic ZOS put in. Utilizing AC, you can fire off a few casts of abilities and still have them all be considered " attacked from stealth" thus receiving a significant buff to dmg (NB specific.). It should be, once your first cast is pressed, you are out of stealth. No ifs ands or buts.

And it brings up cloak allowing that stealth buff happening over and over. Should it only allow you to go invisible but not in stealth? Fix the first issues then lets discuss cloaks issues (I'm OK with cloak btw because there's viable counters.)

cloak is nothiing but an invisible - it does not grant any stealth like dmg enhancements.

Tankqull

Crown wrote: »

2. Some people spam this ability in order to keep NBs from cloaking / stealthing away. Should a gap closer cast on a player who enters stealth complete and pull the player out of stealth? In the case of Teleport Strike (and morphs), it seems reasonable that it would, as the caster "moves through the shadows" to the target. Other charges probably should fizzle, and they are moving directly overland to the target, but in this case, it seems reasonable based on the description of the skill that if you're going to teleport to a target who moved, you complete your teleport even if they're in stealth. That brings us to the question of if you are teleporting to a stealthed target, should this skill pull the target out of stealth or should you need to cast an AoE that damages them afterwards in order to do so?

well the problem here is that TS is a truely casted ability even if the tooltip claims its an instant its not - thats one of the reasons its the most unrelaible charge to track sorcs as they have the short moment to LOS break behind some physical obstacles.
wich leads to your point ALL casted abilities and projectiels do not have a proper tertiary LOS check they check at the beginning of your spell and upon its release after that they turn into cruisemissiles hitting you anyway. and for the sake of templars i´m not sure if that behaviour should be touched...

olsborg

Charge snare needs to go, when you have 3,4 or more people on you charging you and teleport striking you continuously you cant get away even if you have Shuffle up, you just get rooted as soon as you are done dodging, and you end up either having to deplete your stamina to try and get away or just give it up, either way, you die to spam.

Minno

Tankqull wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Well most players don't have an issue with ambush itself. Every class should have a gap closer mechanic that works.

Minimum distance is one issue; fact that ambush has none. It exacerbates the gap closer stuns.

Another issue, is the stealth mechanic ZOS put in. Utilizing AC, you can fire off a few casts of abilities and still have them all be considered " attacked from stealth" thus receiving a significant buff to dmg (NB specific.). It should be, once your first cast is pressed, you are out of stealth. No ifs ands or buts.

And it brings up cloak allowing that stealth buff happening over and over. Should it only allow you to go invisible but not in stealth? Fix the first issues then lets discuss cloaks issues (I'm OK with cloak btw because there's viable counters.)

cloak is nothiing but an invisible - it does not grant any stealth like dmg enhancements.

"Cloak yourself in shadow to become invisible and gain Precision for 2.5 seconds.
Precision ensures your next attack will be a critical strike."

Assassin passive (because you'll be following up with one)
"While using Assassination abilities:

Increases Weapon and Spell Damage while invisible or stealthed by 10%.
Successful stealthed attacks stun for 100% longer."

Then:

"With an Assassination ability slotted:

Increases bonus Critical Strike damage by 10%.
A successful critical hit gives nearby Minor Savagery, increasing Weapon Critical Strike rating by 629 for 20"

Shall I keep going?

Tankqull

well i do not know one PvP active NB using darkcloak as the guaranteed crit is not as effective as beeing able to cleanse your self from damage over time effects wich will emmidiatly unstealth you otherwise.
beside that being cloaked is not being stealthed, you are only invisible nothing more, no stealth dmg enhancement, no out of stealth cc (SA and CW apply their cc from invis aswell not only stealth).

so you can go on and on with stealth dmg increasing effects as they are all nice and dandy but they do not affect attacks from cloak unless you are stealthed ontop of being cloaked wich is not the case wehile being in combat.

heystreethawk

Tankqull wrote: »

well i do not know one PvP active NB using darkcloak

You mean shadowy disguise, but I don't know you either.

as the guaranteed crit is not as effective as beeing able to cleanse your self from damage over time effects wich will emmidiatly unstealth you otherwise.

I have purge, and other people in my group run it too. Dark cloak removes DoTs, but not heal debuffs, snares, marks, etc. I also receive 10% additional magicka regen from having purge slotted. If I'm running purge and barrier on the same bar, lock up your daughters, because I have 20% additional magicka regen. I like having purge.

beside that being cloaked is not being stealthed, you are only invisible nothing more, no stealth dmg enhancement, no out of stealth cc (SA and CW apply their cc from invis aswell not only stealth).

The second quoted assassination passive specifies that attacks made while invisible or stealthed receive an additional 10% spell damage. You can cloak and access your character window to verify that it applies. The last of the mentioned assassination passives increases the bonus critical damage that occurs as a result of shadowy disguise by 10%. I like being able to crit at whim; my proxies hit hard, my concealed weapons hit hard, my tethers hit hard. Life is good, and it is all thanks to Shadowy Disguise.

MrGrimey

You should change the title to "gap closers" instead so you can get more support and to make the thread seem less "trollish"

Deandril

Some people use ambush and get into doors they don't want to. Had this happen two times on my nightblade and was killed very quickly. Was only trying to prevent a near death enemy from entering Sejanus and this broken mechanic turned the tables on me.

nordickittyhawk

Great post @Crown. You did a amazing job talking about the problem with the snare/freeze and not blaming the skill but the mechanic of how it works .

nordickittyhawk

Minno wrote: »

Tankqull wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Well most players don't have an issue with ambush itself. Every class should have a gap closer mechanic that works.

Minimum distance is one issue; fact that ambush has none. It exacerbates the gap closer stuns.

Another issue, is the stealth mechanic ZOS put in. Utilizing AC, you can fire off a few casts of abilities and still have them all be considered " attacked from stealth" thus receiving a significant buff to dmg (NB specific.). It should be, once your first cast is pressed, you are out of stealth. No ifs ands or buts.

And it brings up cloak allowing that stealth buff happening over and over. Should it only allow you to go invisible but not in stealth? Fix the first issues then lets discuss cloaks issues (I'm OK with cloak btw because there's viable counters.)

cloak is nothiing but an invisible - it does not grant any stealth like dmg enhancements.

"Cloak yourself in shadow to become invisible and gain Precision for 2.5 seconds.
Precision ensures your next attack will be a critical strike."

Assassin passive (because you'll be following up with one)
"While using Assassination abilities:

Increases Weapon and Spell Damage while invisible or stealthed by 10%.
Successful stealthed attacks stun for 100% longer."

Then:

"With an Assassination ability slotted:

Increases bonus Critical Strike damage by 10%.
A successful critical hit gives nearby Minor Savagery, increasing Weapon Critical Strike rating by 629 for 20"

Shall I keep going?

No one uses that morph for 100% crit and invisable and sleath is little diffrent. I mean is that a problem? we are a assasin...rouge

nordickittyhawk

TheBull wrote: »

The skill is not the problem. It never has been. It's the change that Wrobel made that gave gap closers a .3-.5sec stun. That's the problem. It needs to be reverted.

Ambush/Lotus spam has never been a valid tactic and also has been the sign of a bad NB. Well that's until the gap closer change...

@Crown if you want to have a constructive thread that addresses the issue, you may want to change the title to "gap closers"

Thanks @TheBull your are 100% right. The community needs stop calling for nerfs for skills like this and just admit... its broken mechanic they added.

kadar

Why are we discussing Shadowy Disquise and stealth/invisibility mechanics in a thread dedicated to Teleport Strike and by extension, all gap closers? This is precisely the type of thing OP was trying to avoid by typing out his first paragraph.

I agree that the Teleport Strike spam is ridiculous. I watched a youtube video where Sypher got killed by 3-5 Nbs doing nothing but spamming TS. And here's the problem-- Why would they? It's like a lazy way to get the kill. "I could use some of my other powerful abilities to try and kill this guy...or I could just press '1' until he runs out of stam and dies."

Didgerion

No snares or stuns should be applied to target prior the attack.

The attacker has no rights to stop or slow down the target unless he hits the target with an ability that specifically does it.

The right solution is to follow the target's location when gap closing without stunning the target. If the target moves out of hitting range while gap closing then the charge/teleport should continue providing that the target is at a reasonable distance and still in the line of sight..if the target moved way out of range or out of sight then the teleport will stop and no hit will happen. Attacker can adjust the positioning from there and try for a new gap close.

And thank you dev team you did not apply the mini-stun solution to all attack abilities just to make sure that the target remains in the ability's range.

Essiaga

I honestly don't think ZOS can do anything on this. Gap closers pretty much have to hit for some classes as they have no mobility, though their gap closers are bugged anyways. You'd almost need gap closer immunity for 1-2 seconds, which might benefit Streak. Idk.

It sorta makes sense that a gap closer stuns/snares/knock down. A gap closer wouldn't stop at the target it would drive through the target. Like a tackle. The only one that doesn't is Ambush/TS.

Ambush/TS require no gap and therefore get spammed which is BS. They can pretty much CC you until your CC immunity runs out then Fear you. Adding some distance here seem like a possible fix. Or replace it with Toppling Charges so it has a large chance to fail or hit then lock the player out of their skills. That was sarcasm btw.

BuggeX

Minno wrote: »

Tankqull wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Well most players don't have an issue with ambush itself. Every class should have a gap closer mechanic that works.

Minimum distance is one issue; fact that ambush has none. It exacerbates the gap closer stuns.

Another issue, is the stealth mechanic ZOS put in. Utilizing AC, you can fire off a few casts of abilities and still have them all be considered " attacked from stealth" thus receiving a significant buff to dmg (NB specific.). It should be, once your first cast is pressed, you are out of stealth. No ifs ands or buts.

And it brings up cloak allowing that stealth buff happening over and over. Should it only allow you to go invisible but not in stealth? Fix the first issues then lets discuss cloaks issues (I'm OK with cloak btw because there's viable counters.)

cloak is nothiing but an invisible - it does not grant any stealth like dmg enhancements.

"Cloak yourself in shadow to become invisible and gain Precision for 2.5 seconds.
Precision ensures your next attack will be a critical strike."

Just to be sure, but isnt any phyical attack from stealth a crit with stun?

TheDarkShadow

1. I think Teleport Strike should not pull a cloak target out of stealth.
2. I think Teleport Strike and all other gap closers should still go off even if the target streaked/move/dodge away or stealth, but you can only travel to the spot the target was when you hit the skill, not the spot where the target is after they moved/stealth. The target won't get hit with the damage because they're already out of range/stealth. Idk how to do this. Maybe check the target location, mark that location, move the caster to the location, check the target new location, check if they're still in range or not in stealth, apply the damage. Throw in some other calculates like dodge chance (with skills like Double take), block, buff, debuffs... maybe it would cause more lag. I just can't think of the best solution for this.

Heindrich

I've long hated gap closers and it's now worse than ever with the new "spambush meta". Gap closer snare makes it basically impossible for a solo player or small team to get away from a zerg and there is no skill element at all on either side that can determine the outcome, especially since TS and has no minimum range, which is just absurd.

I can see a few possible solutions here: (besides applying a min range for TS)
1) Gap closer-snare should have an immunity. Testing is required but somewhere in the range of 2-5s.
2) There needs to be a cooldown on all gap-closer skills, somewhere in the range of 3-5s.
3) Gap-closer snares get nerfed to a 50% snare rather than 100%, but do not increase duration. It can be avoided by dodge rolling but you cannot simply just walk out of it. If your opponent dodges out of the way, the charger still ends up where the target was, not where he is now. This should still bring him a lot closer to the enemy, which should be the point of gap closers.

My preferred solution is 3) thought admittedly it would decrease the effectiveness of gap closers in general, which should be reflected in a cost reduction in those skills. My point however is that gap closers should be a utility skill to provide mobility for classes that otherwise lack it, and help you to close the distance with an enemy. It should not be the ultimate cc that makes it impossible for even skilled players to escape a zerg.

As an example of how gap closers is ruining PvP atm:

Last night I ran in a coordinated raid of 12-15 around evening peak time, so EU Azura was full of 40+ zergs. Our only hope of fighting zergs is to go in and out with proxy bombs... but at least one of the raids we fought was obviously and deliberately spamming gap closers to take out our backline one by one, so we lost 1 or 2 on every "bombing raid", and even if we killed 10 in each attack, they can res their dead instantly, whilst we cannot because we are outnumbered and must keep moving. Thus... gap closers+numbers+res = victory for the mindless zerg.

Brrrofski

It just needs a minimum range. Like all others gap closer. It won't be an issue then.

Nightblades need to be looked at as a whole. My third toon was a Stam nb which I got to vet 4 and got bored. Got a temp and mag NB to 16 since.

With the battle levelling I thought I'd stick some vet 4 purple gear on it and try it out.

It's just stupid easy mode. Honestly, I can see why everyone is one. Way stronger than sorcs or mag NBs. I haven't even unlocked vigor yet and it would take ages for groups of 3 16s to kill me thanks to a combo of fear, cloak, ambushing out of their way and just rally heals.

Like, this thing can 4 shot people for fun. Ambush, 2 surprise atracks, light we've executioner = dead. That's if I didn't 3 shot people with focused aim because they wouldn't know what was happening before it was too late.

No idea why any stamblade uses shieldbreaker. Yo honestly do not need it. Eating vet 16 sorcs for fun. One even messaged me accusing me of cheating because we fought 3 times and I obliterated him every time. I just messaged back saying nah, stamblades are just stupidly op.

I wouldn't care but for the fact everyone is a stamblade now. 50% or more of my deaths have an ambush in there. It genuinely is stupid how easy it was to play. People who moan about how op sorcs are must play stamblades and be very bad at it. This was a whole other level of easy compared to my sorcs. Without flawless dawnbreaker, vigor and a jewellery set. Scary how strong I'll be then.

Sorry to go off on a tangent, but I got so annoyed last night. Even though it was super easy, it was so boring. On xbox eu though, stamblades have taken over. It's killing diversity in the game. That's a huge part of what makes pvp on the game. So if that goes, a huge part of pvp does.

I have VR16 of every class and can wreck face and get wrecked by all (except magica DKs in all honesty) but my stamblade is on another level. The gane needs severely balancing asap. Not nerf NBs per say, but buff the rest to catch up

Lifecode666

this thread has ended up as another nerf nightblade thread.

nightblades are fine.

Bfish22090

We need to nerf sorcerers hardened ward if we're going to nerf teleport strike

Rune_Relic

nordickittyhawk wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Tankqull wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Well most players don't have an issue with ambush itself. Every class should have a gap closer mechanic that works.

Minimum distance is one issue; fact that ambush has none. It exacerbates the gap closer stuns.

Another issue, is the stealth mechanic ZOS put in. Utilizing AC, you can fire off a few casts of abilities and still have them all be considered " attacked from stealth" thus receiving a significant buff to dmg (NB specific.). It should be, once your first cast is pressed, you are out of stealth. No ifs ands or buts.

And it brings up cloak allowing that stealth buff happening over and over. Should it only allow you to go invisible but not in stealth? Fix the first issues then lets discuss cloaks issues (I'm OK with cloak btw because there's viable counters.)

cloak is nothiing but an invisible - it does not grant any stealth like dmg enhancements.

"Cloak yourself in shadow to become invisible and gain Precision for 2.5 seconds.
Precision ensures your next attack will be a critical strike."

Assassin passive (because you'll be following up with one)
"While using Assassination abilities:

Increases Weapon and Spell Damage while invisible or stealthed by 10%.
Successful stealthed attacks stun for 100% longer."

Then:

"With an Assassination ability slotted:

Increases bonus Critical Strike damage by 10%.
A successful critical hit gives nearby Minor Savagery, increasing Weapon Critical Strike rating by 629 for 20"

Shall I keep going?

No one uses that morph for 100% crit and invisable and sleath is little diffrent. I mean is that a problem? we are a assasin...rouge

Actually I do....it meant I don't have to stack crit chance and can spam cloak instead.

Xvorg

Deandril wrote: »

Some people use ambush and get into doors they don't want to. Had this happen two times on my nightblade and was killed very quickly. Was only trying to prevent a near death enemy from entering Sejanus and this broken mechanic turned the tables on me.

Argonian EP? Yup, it was me... sorry

Sharee

Crown wrote: »

3. Some people spam this ability in order to keep sorcerers from streaking away. This is related to #1 above, though lets leave it as a separate issue for now as it's a clearly defined example that can be discussed. Should this gap closer take you farther than it is intended if the target streaks, or should it fizzle/fail with no effect?

Charge snare is a root, so unless there is another mechanic at work, it should not be able to keep sorcerers from streaking away(they can streak while rooted).

As for "should gap closer take you farther than it's tooltip range", i say, as long as the gap closer is listed as an instant ability, and the target is in range to initiate the animation, then the gap closer should move you to the target regardless of the target's actions done while animation is running, except for specific cases(like teleporting into an area that is supposed to be inaccessible to the attacker)

nordickittyhawk

Rune_Relic wrote: »

nordickittyhawk wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Tankqull wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Well most players don't have an issue with ambush itself. Every class should have a gap closer mechanic that works.

Minimum distance is one issue; fact that ambush has none. It exacerbates the gap closer stuns.

Another issue, is the stealth mechanic ZOS put in. Utilizing AC, you can fire off a few casts of abilities and still have them all be considered " attacked from stealth" thus receiving a significant buff to dmg (NB specific.). It should be, once your first cast is pressed, you are out of stealth. No ifs ands or buts.

And it brings up cloak allowing that stealth buff happening over and over. Should it only allow you to go invisible but not in stealth? Fix the first issues then lets discuss cloaks issues (I'm OK with cloak btw because there's viable counters.)

cloak is nothiing but an invisible - it does not grant any stealth like dmg enhancements.

"Cloak yourself in shadow to become invisible and gain Precision for 2.5 seconds.
Precision ensures your next attack will be a critical strike."

Assassin passive (because you'll be following up with one)
"While using Assassination abilities:

Increases Weapon and Spell Damage while invisible or stealthed by 10%.
Successful stealthed attacks stun for 100% longer."

Then:

"With an Assassination ability slotted:

Increases bonus Critical Strike damage by 10%.
A successful critical hit gives nearby Minor Savagery, increasing Weapon Critical Strike rating by 629 for 20"

Shall I keep going?

No one uses that morph for 100% crit and invisable and sleath is little diffrent. I mean is that a problem? we are a assasin...rouge

Actually I do....it meant I don't have to stack crit chance and can spam cloak instead.

As magic or stamina? i guess if your magic u can use purge isnt it little costly?