Templar?

natemb

Hello

So I'm on my first character which is an Imperial Templar at level 20 right now. I aim to do mostly PvP once I hit maxlevel.

But I see a lot of complaining about templars here on the forums and that got me thinking twice. Are templars really that bad in PvP? Magicka? Stamina?

I was looking forward to having fun with a 2h Stamina Templar in PvP, but is it worth it, or should I reroll now?

Templar is by far my favourite class, I've always liked the Paladin/Holy Knight - theme, but I am considering rerolling to an NB or Sorc if it is as bad as people want it to be.

Pros/Cons?

Thanks!

Molag_Crow

Honestly, stick with what you enjoy. As much as I complain about Templar's, I love them....

I can't base my experience off of 1v1s because I never seem to find 1v1's these days, it's usually 1vX, so in 1vX situations, I've been done over by Stam Templars even in the current patch (On console we're currently a patch behind PC) and especially Magicka Templar's like myself.

If you've got the materials/armor etc, then just experiment with different builds even if they're different Stamina builds. However, I do not suggest using Blazing Shied/Radiant Ward inside PvP, as it has been nerfed to oblivion. I don't have much exp with stam Temps because.. I just don't see it working well 1vX-ing. I definitely suggest Rally and Vigor if you do happen to go fully Stam though.

As a Magicka Templar, you can barely block for more than 2 seconds now before you hit the danger zone of not having enough stam to break free.

Despite the negatives, give it a try and see how you like it because everyone is different at the end of ze day.

BalticBlues

natemb wrote: »

Templar is by far my favourite class, I've always liked the Paladin/Holy Knight - theme, but I am considering rerolling to an NB or Sorc if it is as bad as people want it to be.

I played all classes except DK. The Templar class is the one I like most. But it is also the class that sucks most in PvP (IMHO) compared to Sorcs/NBs. Templars are so slow and their attacks are so complex/clumsy that most good Sorcs/NBs will usually either kill Templars (geared for healing) or flee from Templars (geared for combat) easily in 1v1, see discussion here:
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/224956/give-templars-mobility-stronger-defense

I still would pick up a Templar again because they are so versatile in PvE. In PvE you can do any role in this game as a Templar (Healer, DPS, Tank). There are so many things to try out, so many strategies to pick from, it is just great. However, for people who prefer PvP I probably would not recommend a Templar. Probably only the best players can master a complex/clumsy Templar in PvP, and I am certainly not among them...

Springt-Über-Zwerge

I love the templar class too but for pvp its definitely not the best choice at all Templars took massive nerfs although they were never op like DKs or Sorcs and now they are just a shadow of what they once were and @ZOS keeps buffing sorcs and nightblades

Minno

BalticBlues wrote: »

natemb wrote: »

Templar is by far my favourite class, I've always liked the Paladin/Holy Knight - theme, but I am considering rerolling to an NB or Sorc if it is as bad as people want it to be.

I played all classes except DK. The Templar class is the one I like most. But it is also the class that sucks most in PvP (IMHO) compared to Sorcs/NBs. Templars are so slow and their attacks are so complex/clumsy that most good Sorcs/NBs will usually either kill Templars (geared for healing) or flee from Templars (geared for combat) easily in 1v1, see discussion here:
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/224956/give-templars-mobility-stronger-defense

I still would pick up a Templar again because they are so versatile in PvE. In PvE you can do any role in this game as a Templar (Healer, DPS, Tank). There are so many things to try out, so many strategies to pick from, it is just great. However, for people who prefer PvP I probably would not recommend a Templar. Probably only the best players can master a complex/clumsy Templar in PvP, and I am certainly not among them...

Currently working on a non-vamp magicka Templar build centered around mobility. Once I test it with vr16 gear I'll share it.

Templars are very well rounded and situational; based on fights your constantly switching gear and skills. That's what makes them fun . But they do need some TLC (like DKs).

Waffennacht

Actually a well built Templar can be amazing. True they are rare but they can just destroy in PvP.

Im not sure what build they few I faced are exactly, but they hit hard (not as hard as some), and have the ability to regen like crazy.

Stick with it if you enjoy it, you can be a beast in PvP, its possible

CherryCake

I guess it depends how you build your templar, definitely dont focus on light armor and healing skills and you should be good! For example use most of the destruction magic, just with one or two slots to heal yourself during the combat.
I have one high elf, light armored, templar healer, staff wielder, as my main character. It is SO fun to play! But once I get in the PVP area, I am like the easiest bait ever. Pick on someone your own size people xD

zornyan

SerenaAnastasia wrote: »

I guess it depends how you build your templar, definitely dont focus on light armor and healing skills and you should be good! For example use most of the destruction magic, just with one or two slots to heal yourself during the combat.
I have one high elf, light armored, templar healer, staff wielder, as my main character. It is SO fun to play! But once I get in the PVP area, I am like the easiest bait ever. Pick on someone your own size people xD

What??

Light armor is probably the best for a magicka templar, heavy can be used, if you've got 400+cp and don't mind giving up damage, but light is far better.

Also healing skills are the most vital for pvp, using channeled focus + purifying ritual means you've got a constant heal + 5k armor buff + magicka regen.

Then just use aedric / dawns wrath skills to fill the slots.

CherryCake

zornyan wrote: »

What??

Light armor is probably the best for a magicka templar, heavy can be used, if you've got 400+cp and don't mind giving up damage, but light is far better.

Also healing skills are the most vital for pvp, using channeled focus + purifying ritual means you've got a constant heal + 5k armor buff + magicka regen.

Then just use aedric / dawns wrath skills to fill the slots.

Then it means I just suck since everybody kills me before I can even give two hits xD.

zornyan

SerenaAnastasia wrote: »

zornyan wrote: »

What??

Light armor is probably the best for a magicka templar, heavy can be used, if you've got 400+cp and don't mind giving up damage, but light is far better.

Also healing skills are the most vital for pvp, using channeled focus + purifying ritual means you've got a constant heal + 5k armor buff + magicka regen.

Then just use aedric / dawns wrath skills to fill the slots.

Then it means I just suck since everybody kills me before I can even give two hits xD.

Honestly if you look at some other players builds to get an idea of gear/sets that's the best way to go, but my templar basically never friggin dies anymore, I've learned that as a templar with a half decent amount of sustain no one will ever kill you, as you can heal through any damage instantly.

Either they try to kill me, and then I kill them quickly, or sorcerers that try to kill me, fail after 5 or so minutes then turn tail and run.

xboxone1Q

Yes

AfkNinja

zornyan wrote: »

SerenaAnastasia wrote: »

zornyan wrote: »

What??

Light armor is probably the best for a magicka templar, heavy can be used, if you've got 400+cp and don't mind giving up damage, but light is far better.

Also healing skills are the most vital for pvp, using channeled focus + purifying ritual means you've got a constant heal + 5k armor buff + magicka regen.

Then just use aedric / dawns wrath skills to fill the slots.

Then it means I just suck since everybody kills me before I can even give two hits xD.

Honestly if you look at some other players builds to get an idea of gear/sets that's the best way to go, but my MAGICKA Templar basically never friggin dies anymore, I've learned that as a MAGICKA Templar with a half decent amount of sustain no one will ever kill you, as you can heal through any damage instantly.

Either they try to kill me, and then I kill them quickly, or sorcerers that try to kill me, fail after 5 or so minutes then turn tail and run.

Magicka Templar is very close to being in a really good spot. Only needs minor tweaks. Stamina Templar however needs a complete review.

Grampa_Smurf

SerenaAnastasia wrote: »

I guess it depends how you build your templar, definitely dont focus on light armor and healing skills and you should be good! For example use most of the destruction magic, just with one or two slots to heal yourself during the combat.
I have one high elf, light armored, templar healer, staff wielder, as my main character. It is SO fun to play! But once I get in the PVP area, I am like the easiest bait ever. Pick on someone your own size people xD

In PvP for healing I use 2 heavy 5 light since I don't have the undaunted passive, Chest-Legs heavy Reinforced, Light on rest. I have a Imperial Templar and use sword - shield. I can usually drag a fair few enemy players around with me and keep healing, I only use the Sword-shield for the reflect for those annoying crystal frags and bashing the enemy healers if I get close enough.

I started the Templar with all intentions of going Stam-tank build but found my self drawn to Magicka build, I know Imperial was not the best choice but as I have no need to put any points into health and I also get that little bit of stam it has worked out not a bad combo for PvP, And with the setup I have it can take a lot of damage, I always keep this in mine....A dead healer is no good to anyone.

zornyan

AfkNinja wrote: »

zornyan wrote: »

SerenaAnastasia wrote: »

zornyan wrote: »

What??

Light armor is probably the best for a magicka templar, heavy can be used, if you've got 400+cp and don't mind giving up damage, but light is far better.

Also healing skills are the most vital for pvp, using channeled focus + purifying ritual means you've got a constant heal + 5k armor buff + magicka regen.

Then just use aedric / dawns wrath skills to fill the slots.

Then it means I just suck since everybody kills me before I can even give two hits xD.

Honestly if you look at some other players builds to get an idea of gear/sets that's the best way to go, but my MAGICKA Templar basically never friggin dies anymore, I've learned that as a MAGICKA Templar with a half decent amount of sustain no one will ever kill you, as you can heal through any damage instantly.

Either they try to kill me, and then I kill them quickly, or sorcerers that try to kill me, fail after 5 or so minutes then turn tail and run.

Magicka Templar is very close to being in a really good spot. Only needs minor tweaks. Stamina Templar however needs a complete review.

I agree to an extent, templars like sorcerers you HAVE TO go magicka, even slightly stam DK but stam templars do have jabs and javelin, and rune focus is pretty good magicka dump for increased healing recieved and armor buff.

All they need is a heal of some sort, it seems crazy that out of an entire healing tree they can't just make a stam heal, no one uses honor the dead, so maybe that should be a single target stam morph heal?

Other than that, jabs is a great hard gitter, that both stam sorc/dks lack as a class skill, javelin is a pretty good ranged CC too, so, they also have 6% flat damage buff and 10% crit damage buff, both respectable passives.

Minno

Grampa_Smurf wrote: »

SerenaAnastasia wrote: »

I guess it depends how you build your templar, definitely dont focus on light armor and healing skills and you should be good! For example use most of the destruction magic, just with one or two slots to heal yourself during the combat.
I have one high elf, light armored, templar healer, staff wielder, as my main character. It is SO fun to play! But once I get in the PVP area, I am like the easiest bait ever. Pick on someone your own size people xD

In PvP for healing I use 2 heavy 5 light since I don't have the undaunted passive, Chest-Legs heavy Reinforced, Light on rest. I have a Imperial Templar and use sword - shield. I can usually drag a fair few enemy players around with me and keep healing, I only use the Sword-shield for the reflect for those annoying crystal frags and bashing the enemy healers if I get close enough.

I started the Templar with all intentions of going Stam-tank build but found my self drawn to Magicka build, I know Imperial was not the best choice but as I have no need to put any points into health and I also get that little bit of stam it has worked out not a bad combo for PvP, And with the setup I have it can take a lot of damage, I always keep this in mine....A dead healer is no good to anyone.

Imperial is very good race for switching between magicka or stam.

zornyan

As above, even just as a raw magicka build, as you can invest everything into magicka and still have a more respectable health/stam pool.

itsDeej

I honestly can tell you Templars are a great class for PvP if you already enjoy playing the class, the downside is there is only limited number of effective builds to run. And stam temps are a dying breed lacking proper skill trees to stay competitive. But mag Templars with SaB and a well thought out rotation and retreat plan can wreck face. I've been a temp since console lunch tried both Stam and mag and magic for sure trumps. The skills I'm running now on my attack bar being vet 12 with 1900 total PvP kills is : 1. Sweeps 2. Shielded assault 3. Vampire bane 4. radiant destruction 5. Defensive stance. And ultimate is soul assult( meteor still locked )

AfkNinja

itsDeej wrote: »

stam temps are a dying breed lacking proper skill trees to stay competitive.

Stamplar is dying cause there is no reason to pick Stamplar over StamSorc, Stamblade or StamKnight.

zornyan

AfkNinja wrote: »

itsDeej wrote: »

stam temps are a dying breed lacking proper skill trees to stay competitive.

Stamplar is dying cause there is no reason to pick Stamplar over StamSorc, Stamblade or StamKnight.

I'd say stamplar is superior for dps compared to a stam sorc, at least we can use some class abilities.

Obviously stamblade is an optimal design and has lots of skills/passives to work in their favour.

Stam dks are more often tanks than anything I find, or just wrecking blow spammers.

SneaK

Temp is strong, keep trucking.

AfkNinja

zornyan wrote: »

AfkNinja wrote: »

itsDeej wrote: »

stam temps are a dying breed lacking proper skill trees to stay competitive.

Stamplar is dying cause there is no reason to pick Stamplar over StamSorc, Stamblade or StamKnight.

I'd say stamplar is superior for dps (I disagree) compared to a stam sorc, at least we can use some class abilities (2, Biting Jabs and Binding Javelin).

Obviously stamblade is an optimal design and has lots of skills/passives to work in their favour.

Stam dks are more often tanks than anything I find, or just wrecking blow spammers. (I would also argue Stamina DK can do more DPS in PVE and gets better healing than Stamplar)

Sorc can stack higher wep dmg than Templar and WB is close to the same dmg as Biting Jabs, especially since it's hard to land all four hits with Biting Jabs. Also Stamina Sorc has more self healing available with Crit Surge, Rally/Vigor. None of the Templar passives work with heals outside the class tree so Stamplar's healing is dead last.

zornyan

AfkNinja wrote: »

zornyan wrote: »

AfkNinja wrote: »

itsDeej wrote: »

stam temps are a dying breed lacking proper skill trees to stay competitive.

Stamplar is dying cause there is no reason to pick Stamplar over StamSorc, Stamblade or StamKnight.

I'd say stamplar is superior for dps (I disagree) compared to a stam sorc, at least we can use some class abilities (2, Biting Jabs and Binding Javelin).

Obviously stamblade is an optimal design and has lots of skills/passives to work in their favour.

Stam dks are more often tanks than anything I find, or just wrecking blow spammers. (I would also argue Stamina DK can do more DPS in PVE and gets better healing than Stamplar)

Sorc can stack higher wep dmg than Templar and WB is close to the same dmg as Biting Jabs, especially since it's hard to land all four hits with Biting Jabs. Also Stamina Sorc has more self healing available with Crit Surge, Rally/Vigor. None of the Templar passives work with heals outside the class tree so Stamplar's healing is dead last.

Rune focus' 8% healing recieved buff works for all heals afaik, and biting jabs may only hit a tad harder, yet it has 2 distinct advantages

Since it's 4 hits anything that requires a proc, procs more often, 4x as much infact, so evil hunter, brianhart etc all proc far far more often.

Then add in burning light, which is what? 4k on a high damage build?

So that 15k jabs, suddenly turns into at least 19k, with a possibility of hitting for 31k!

If we're talking pve too, then repentance comes in for another heal/stam return.

Or strictly pvp,crit surge isn't a reliable heal like rally/Vigor as everyone and their aunt often has a shield being cast somewhere that complete prevents crits happening, and players have crit resistance.

AfkNinja

zornyan wrote: »

Rune focus' 8% healing recieved buff works for all heals afaik (It does however not many of us would give up the mana regen for 8% healing.), and biting jabs may only hit a tad harder, yet it has 2 distinct advantages (And a major disadvantage of a .5 sec Knockback giving 5+ secs of CC immunity)

Since it's 4 hits anything that requires a proc, procs more often, 4x as much infact (This is gamblers fallacy, it's won't proc four times more often, you just have so many checks for a proc it becomes more likely by sheer volume. It's still going to average out to procing on 25% of aedric spear attacks) , so evil hunter, brianhart etc all proc more often (If you land all four hits). (This is true but keep in mind landing all four hits is not that easy.)

Then add in burning light, which is what? 4k on a high damage build? (This is based on spell power so for stamina builds no 4k 4 u. More like 2k on a proc, likely to land 1 proc per cast.)

So that 15k jabs, suddenly turns into at least 19k, with a possibility of hitting for 31k! (Where are you getting 15k from? 31k is not happening. More like 10,000~ if you land all four hits and you have great wep power and stamina. Maybe 15k if you get 2 Burning light procs) Also I should mention the damage bonus for Biting Jabs on the closest target does not work on shields at the moment so yea....that sucks.

If we're talking pve too, then repentance comes in for another heal/stam return. (Yes, I love the skill, just wish it didn't require bodies to be useful.)

Or strictly pvp,crit surge isn't a reliable heal like rally/Vigor as everyone and their aunt often has a shield being cast somewhere that complete prevents crits happening, and players have crit resistance. You are correct that Crit Surge is unreliable, but that wasn't my point. My point was merely Sorcs have better healing options that Templar and that's really weird. Dragon Knights have better stamina healing than Templar and that's really weird.

Elara_Northwind

Templar I love playing them so much, I am levelling 2 more right now because I just can't get enough I think all classes are good if you know them well (some are easier, but who wants everything handed to them on a plate? That would be no fun at all )

zornyan

AfkNinja wrote: »

zornyan wrote: »

Rune focus' 8% healing recieved buff works for all heals afaik (It does however not many of us would give up the mana regen for 8% healing.), and biting jabs may only hit a tad harder, yet it has 2 distinct advantages (And a major disadvantage of a .5 sec Knockback giving 5+ secs of CC immunity)

Since it's 4 hits anything that requires a proc, procs more often, 4x as much infact (This is gamblers fallacy, it's won't proc four times more often, you just have so many checks for a proc it becomes more likely by sheer volume. It's still going to average out to procing on 25% of aedric spear attacks) , so evil hunter, brianhart etc all proc more often (If you land all four hits). (This is true but keep in mind landing all four hits is not that easy.)

Then add in burning light, which is what? 4k on a high damage build? (This is based on spell power so for stamina builds no 4k 4 u. More like 2k on a proc, likely to land 1 proc per cast.)

So that 15k jabs, suddenly turns into at least 19k, with a possibility of hitting for 31k! (Where are you getting 15k from? 31k is not happening. More like 10,000~ if you land all four hits and you have great wep power and stamina. Maybe 15k if you get 2 Burning light procs) Also I should mention the damage bonus for Biting Jabs on the closest target does not work on shields at the moment so yea....that sucks.

If we're talking pve too, then repentance comes in for another heal/stam return. (Yes, I love the skill, just wish it didn't require bodies to be useful.)

Or strictly pvp,crit surge isn't a reliable heal like rally/Vigor as everyone and their aunt often has a shield being cast somewhere that complete prevents crits happening, and players have crit resistance. You are correct that Crit Surge is unreliable, but that wasn't my point. My point was merely Sorcs have better healing options that Templar and that's really weird. Dragon Knights have better stamina healing than Templar and that's really weird.

15k was obviously talking about PVE damage, haven't tested stamplar numbers enough in pvp, I just know it hits alot harder than wrecking blow.

Also burning light scales of spell power OR weapon power, which ever is higher, on my stam build it's around a 4k proc.

dodgehopper_ESO

The same argument made for Templars to use the health-received Rune would be the same argument that sorcs should use Empowered Ward. Templars have greater need for the magicka regen from the magic regen rune, and Sorcs get a much better shield from hardened ward. Purifying/Cleansing Ritual is a good idea to use as a Templar, even as a stamina templar for clearing debuffs, but it becomes harder to slot the rune as a Stamplar. The magica regenerating rune I've found ends up being a better call when you need the ritual, and then firing off rally/vigor, you've now dedicated 4 skills to healing yourself, 5 if you include repentance. Its generally not that feasible to load down that much on a stamina build so choices have to be made about what to cut. You also need to make sure and slot a spear ability of some kind on your stamplar, for those passives (biting jabs/binding javelin most likely) , and a dawns wrath ability (power of the light).

Buff Bar: Vigor (or Rally), Rune (Spear passives), Cleansing Ritual (Healing passives/cleanse), Repentance, (Flex Skill), Ultimate: (Nova w/ Dawn wrath passive) or (Ice Comet, Bats, Alliance Ultimates, etc)

Attack Bar: Power of the Light (Dawn wrath), Biting Jabs (Spear), Binding Javelin (Spear), Repentance(or Flex Skill), (Flex Skill), Ultimate: Flawless Dawnbreaker