Magicka Sorc vs. DK Flappy Wings

spawn_to_kill

josh.lackey_ESO wrote: »

I find that, as a magicka sorcerer, I can fare pretty well against every class except Dragonknight because of Reflective Scale. Once they start flapping their wings, I know the fight is going to be a stalemate, and just start spamming encase on them to be annoying. (I usually like to play fair, but I will definitely counter cheap tactics with cheap tactics -- often relentlessly.)

I know that I can use Curse and Fury, but that will never be enough to kill them. I keep Encase, Lightning Splash, and Volcanic Rune on my Overload bar. I try to keep them rooted in Lightning Splash and use Volcanic Rune and Overload Heavy Attack to kill them, but frankly, it's still not usually enough burst.

I'm level 40 right now. I don't have bolt or mines yet, and realize they might be helpful when I get them. But until then, does anyone have advice on how I can fight DKs with flappy wings?

use lightnig flood with cure and mages wrath you shouldnt have a problem thats coming from a flappy wing dk turnt sorc

Alucardo

spawn_to_kill wrote: »

use lightnig flood with cure and mages wrath you shouldnt have a problem thats coming from a flappy wing dk turnt sorc

I don't have lightning flood, because in PvP I just find it completely useless. Curse and mages wrath, heavy attacks with lightning staff, wait for wings to go down, then knock them with reach and throw every projectile you can at them before they get up and recast wings. Repeat.
Fought two DKs this morning and it worked pretty well. It does take a little more thought process than fighting anything else, but it's still easily accomplished.

spawn_to_kill

my lightning flood hit nearly nearly 2k a sec and has a chance of disintegrating low health targets also as cyrodil is a erg fest now aoe like that just helps with groups

Septimus_Magna

Alucardo wrote: »

spawn_to_kill wrote: »

use lightnig flood with cure and mages wrath you shouldnt have a problem thats coming from a flappy wing dk turnt sorc

I don't have lightning flood, because in PvP I just find it completely useless. Curse and mages wrath, heavy attacks with lightning staff, wait for wings to go down, then knock them with reach and throw every projectile you can at them before they get up and recast wings. Repeat.
Fought two DKs this morning and it worked pretty well. It does take a little more thought process than fighting anything else, but it's still easily accomplished.

Liquid lighting is too small for pvp indeed. Deadric Minefield is very useful though.

You can create a gap between wings so you can hit them, when I see wings flap I count to 3 and hit them with streak + cfrags combo. Because they are stunned they first have to break-free before they can re-cast wings. DKs self-healing has been reduced significantly so I find it pretty easy to beat most of them.

Also use Curse and Prox Det (+ Dawnbreaker) to increase your burst damage. If you hit them with everything at roughly the same time you usually kill them or at least put them in execute range.

Iduyenn

Run! Run for your live or you will be flapped!

Septimus_Magna

spawn_to_kill wrote: »

my lightning flood hit nearly nearly 2k a sec and has a chance of disintegrating low health targets also as cyrodil is a erg fest now aoe like that just helps with groups

In pvp with the 50% damage reduction or outside Cyrodiil?

In my experience liquid lighting is too small for small scale pvp, it does have it use if you run with a 12+ man group because others can activate the synergy for free dmg and resources.

josh.lackey_ESO

It seems like I encounter two kinds of DK's: the ones that don't use flappy wings at all, and the ones who are pros at using it. Several times I have fought DK's who actually get the flap off after I throw an instant frag. It may be that they anticipated the frag and flapped before I threw it, and the network delay made it look like they timed it mid-flight.

I was fighting with another sorc before the server came down, and mentioned he used Force Pulse because it counted as 3 projectiles. Does anyone know if that's right? I reckon I could force pulse to eat up the reflect then throw frags.

I want to add that I don't ever stand around and spam frags. I really only ever use it when it procs. Hard casting frags is just begging to be interrupted.

americansteel

Winterpsy wrote: »

On my DK, my favourite encounters are sorcerers. Stam dk, so not enought stam to use flappy wings, but shield&sword deflect magic is low cost, and always works, not to mention it's a sneaky skill, not so obvious like flappy wings. (unless you can spot the shimmer on the character mid-combat).
So OP's problem can be extended to other tanks, since s&b can be accessed by anyone. This topped with higher than avarage spell resistance, and say you encounter a DK with chains equipped, often it ends badly for magic ranged users. (destro staffers included).

When they give me a hard time it's usually the following:

Bolt-stunning me.
Staying behind their minefield, circling around (most tanks are usually melee)
Soul strike (gods I hate this!!!)
Encase
Lightning staff heavy attacks (cant be reflected, but they wont really do much of a damage neither, but at least you wont be faceslapping yourself neither with reflected spells)
Among the sorc skills I keep seeing in my death recap are: endless fury, overload


Avoid at all cost:
Meteor - 9 out of 10 times I send it back
Frags - 9 out of 10 is sent back (unless you use it on a stunned tank, or when he is not aware), and you will run out of stamina for break free, opening yourself for two handed wrecking blow wrecking.

Duels usually end with stalemate anyhow. Sorcs escaping with bolt.


Hope I could help.

magick DK

V3 nord

7 heavy

extended chains
talons
reflective scales
stone fist
defensive posture
lava whip
shield bash or shield assault i love using this on night blades and then hit them with talons.
lave whip
lava whip
frags seem to never bother me. ill pop scales a few times in battle I have a lot of magick.

I manage to kill a few sorcs but usually ends in one of us running away due to a stalemate and a friend request sent.

I don't think I seen a mentioning of CP on this thread either which certainly does help if a sorc has a lot.

the OP should worry about ranking up first and getting his abilities unlocked before worrying about how to fight a dragon knight.
there's a lot of competent dragonknights out there in cyrodiil and some trolling IC sewers and arena area. chances are most DKs wont forget to pop scales because in all fairness that's the most OP ability we have and probably the single most reason why DKs can survive so long in cyrodiil. I remember playing my DK on PC last year before the CP came out scales was so much better than it is now.
I also put CP into bastion.

KozawahGaming

americansteel wrote: »

Winterpsy wrote: »

On my DK, my favourite encounters are sorcerers. Stam dk, so not enought stam to use flappy wings, but shield&sword deflect magic is low cost, and always works, not to mention it's a sneaky skill, not so obvious like flappy wings. (unless you can spot the shimmer on the character mid-combat).
So OP's problem can be extended to other tanks, since s&b can be accessed by anyone. This topped with higher than avarage spell resistance, and say you encounter a DK with chains equipped, often it ends badly for magic ranged users. (destro staffers included).

When they give me a hard time it's usually the following:

Bolt-stunning me.
Staying behind their minefield, circling around (most tanks are usually melee)
Soul strike (gods I hate this!!!)
Encase
Lightning staff heavy attacks (cant be reflected, but they wont really do much of a damage neither, but at least you wont be faceslapping yourself neither with reflected spells)
Among the sorc skills I keep seeing in my death recap are: endless fury, overload


Avoid at all cost:
Meteor - 9 out of 10 times I send it back
Frags - 9 out of 10 is sent back (unless you use it on a stunned tank, or when he is not aware), and you will run out of stamina for break free, opening yourself for two handed wrecking blow wrecking.

Duels usually end with stalemate anyhow. Sorcs escaping with bolt.


Hope I could help.

magick DK

V3 nord

7 heavy

extended chains
talons
reflective scales
stone fist
defensive posture
lava whip
shield bash or shield assault i love using this on night blades and then hit them with talons.
lave whip
lava whip
frags seem to never bother me. ill pop scales a few times in battle I have a lot of magick.

I manage to kill a few sorcs but usually ends in one of us running away due to a stalemate and a friend request sent.

I don't think I seen a mentioning of CP on this thread either which certainly does help if a sorc has a lot.

the OP should worry about ranking up first and getting his abilities unlocked before worrying about how to fight a dragon knight.
there's a lot of competent dragonknights out there in cyrodiil and some trolling IC sewers and arena area. chances are most DKs wont forget to pop scales because in all fairness that's the most OP ability we have and probably the single most reason why DKs can survive so long in cyrodiil. I remember playing my DK on PC last year before the CP came out scales was so much better than it is now.
I also put CP into bastion.

Why Nord for Magicka DK? I went High Elf, extra magicka, extra magicka recovery, and increased spell damage with my fire attacks. 5 Light 2 Heavy DW/S&S. Granted I made him a few days ago so he's only level 20 but in the non-vet pvp I can hold my own in 1v1 even a 1v2. Only bad thing for me right now is I don't have a crafted set I want. Until I get Lava whip I'm using

Firey Breath (gonna use structured Entropy)
Inner Light
Fire Scratches
Talons
Harden Armor (waiting for Scales)
Magma Armor (for 1vX)

Inner Light
Dragons Blood
(Free slot use what you want boo)
(Free slot: Prox. Det.)
Invasion
Preferred Ult would be Meteor

Gear I'm aiming for 4 Toruqs, 5 Seducer,

spawn_to_kill

in cyrodil i will let u know exact figures later when i can log in its around 850 per 0.5 sec 1700.

Waffennacht

spawn_to_kill wrote: »

in cyrodil i will let u know exact figures later when i can log in its around 850 per 0.5 sec 1700.

Hrm not bad, mine (last time I checked) hit for like 500ish per .5. In Cyrodiil might as well count the .5 tick as the dps.

I do not believe the tool tip sheet reduces the numbers or not while in Cyrodiil. Would anyone know this?

darkdruidssb14_ESO

Derra wrote: »

Amica wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

Always wondered what would happen if a Sorc threw a frag, the DK reflected it with wings, then the sorc casted defensive posture. Would they play tennis?

Not tried it, and tried it on my dk vs another dk with a meteor with the shield reflect instead. ... was hoping to have a good rally

Reflects are capped at 2 per projectile.

This means Fragments get reflected by the DK. Then the sorc reflects them back at the DK with posture and they will ignore the DKs wings.

Not sure if it still works, but as a Templar I used to cast Eclipse on DKs with wings up. Fun times.. then I can cast whatever and it reflects off the wings and is reflected back at them by Eclipse.. then they take the damage. Really fun if the DK is using the wings with increase damage on reflected projectiles.

Tallowby

Derra wrote: »

Amica wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

Always wondered what would happen if a Sorc threw a frag, the DK reflected it with wings, then the sorc casted defensive posture. Would they play tennis?

Not tried it, and tried it on my dk vs another dk with a meteor with the shield reflect instead. ... was hoping to have a good rally

Reflects are capped at 2 per projectile.

This means Fragments get reflected by the DK. Then the sorc reflects them back at the DK with posture and they will ignore the DKs wings.

Not if DK used flappy on first serve and S&B reflect on 3rd return....

KozawahGaming

Tallowby wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Amica wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

Always wondered what would happen if a Sorc threw a frag, the DK reflected it with wings, then the sorc casted defensive posture. Would they play tennis?

Not tried it, and tried it on my dk vs another dk with a meteor with the shield reflect instead. ... was hoping to have a good rally

Reflects are capped at 2 per projectile.

This means Fragments get reflected by the DK. Then the sorc reflects them back at the DK with posture and they will ignore the DKs wings.

Not if DK used flappy on first serve and S&B reflect on 3rd return....

This needs to happen, I wanna see a tennis match in ESO stat.

darkdruidssb14_ESO

Tallowby wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Amica wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

Always wondered what would happen if a Sorc threw a frag, the DK reflected it with wings, then the sorc casted defensive posture. Would they play tennis?

Not tried it, and tried it on my dk vs another dk with a meteor with the shield reflect instead. ... was hoping to have a good rally

Reflects are capped at 2 per projectile.

This means Fragments get reflected by the DK. Then the sorc reflects them back at the DK with posture and they will ignore the DKs wings.

Not if DK used flappy on first serve and S&B reflect on 3rd return....

It shouldn't reflect a 3rd time. DK should eat it after the 2nd reflect.

americansteel

KozawahGaming wrote: »

americansteel wrote: »

Winterpsy wrote: »

On my DK, my favourite encounters are sorcerers. Stam dk, so not enought stam to use flappy wings, but shield&sword deflect magic is low cost, and always works, not to mention it's a sneaky skill, not so obvious like flappy wings. (unless you can spot the shimmer on the character mid-combat).
So OP's problem can be extended to other tanks, since s&b can be accessed by anyone. This topped with higher than avarage spell resistance, and say you encounter a DK with chains equipped, often it ends badly for magic ranged users. (destro staffers included).

When they give me a hard time it's usually the following:

Bolt-stunning me.
Staying behind their minefield, circling around (most tanks are usually melee)
Soul strike (gods I hate this!!!)
Encase
Lightning staff heavy attacks (cant be reflected, but they wont really do much of a damage neither, but at least you wont be faceslapping yourself neither with reflected spells)
Among the sorc skills I keep seeing in my death recap are: endless fury, overload


Avoid at all cost:
Meteor - 9 out of 10 times I send it back
Frags - 9 out of 10 is sent back (unless you use it on a stunned tank, or when he is not aware), and you will run out of stamina for break free, opening yourself for two handed wrecking blow wrecking.

Duels usually end with stalemate anyhow. Sorcs escaping with bolt.


Hope I could help.

magick DK

V3 nord

7 heavy

extended chains
talons
reflective scales
stone fist
defensive posture
lava whip
shield bash or shield assault i love using this on night blades and then hit them with talons.
lave whip
lava whip
frags seem to never bother me. ill pop scales a few times in battle I have a lot of magick.

I manage to kill a few sorcs but usually ends in one of us running away due to a stalemate and a friend request sent.

I don't think I seen a mentioning of CP on this thread either which certainly does help if a sorc has a lot.

the OP should worry about ranking up first and getting his abilities unlocked before worrying about how to fight a dragon knight.
there's a lot of competent dragonknights out there in cyrodiil and some trolling IC sewers and arena area. chances are most DKs wont forget to pop scales because in all fairness that's the most OP ability we have and probably the single most reason why DKs can survive so long in cyrodiil. I remember playing my DK on PC last year before the CP came out scales was so much better than it is now.
I also put CP into bastion.

Why Nord for Magicka DK? I went High Elf, extra magicka, extra magicka recovery, and increased spell damage with my fire attacks. 5 Light 2 Heavy DW/S&S. Granted I made him a few days ago so he's only level 20 but in the non-vet pvp I can hold my own in 1v1 even a 1v2. Only bad thing for me right now is I don't have a crafted set I want. Until I get Lava whip I'm using

Firey Breath (gonna use structured Entropy)
Inner Light
Fire Scratches
Talons
Harden Armor (waiting for Scales)
Magma Armor (for 1vX)

Inner Light
Dragons Blood
(Free slot use what you want boo)
(Free slot: Prox. Det.)
Invasion
Preferred Ult would be Meteor

Gear I'm aiming for 4 Toruqs, 5 Seducer,

I didn't buy imperial edition for console. but nords do have better health regen. even though I hate my passives. it still seems to do ok in PvP (mostly when im grouped up) and in PvE I hit really hard!

Derra

Tallowby wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Amica wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

Always wondered what would happen if a Sorc threw a frag, the DK reflected it with wings, then the sorc casted defensive posture. Would they play tennis?

Not tried it, and tried it on my dk vs another dk with a meteor with the shield reflect instead. ... was hoping to have a good rally

Reflects are capped at 2 per projectile.

This means Fragments get reflected by the DK. Then the sorc reflects them back at the DK with posture and they will ignore the DKs wings.

Not if DK used flappy on first serve and S&B reflect on 3rd return....

Won´t work. Projectiles will only get reflected two times.

vaagventje17eb17_ESO

josh.lackey_ESO wrote: »

I find that, as a magicka sorcerer, I can fare pretty well against every class except Dragonknight because of Reflective Scale. Once they start flapping their wings, I know the fight is going to be a stalemate, and just start spamming encase on them to be annoying. (I usually like to play fair, but I will definitely counter cheap tactics with cheap tactics -- often relentlessly.)

I know that I can use Curse and Fury, but that will never be enough to kill them. I keep Encase, Lightning Splash, and Volcanic Rune on my Overload bar. I try to keep them rooted in Lightning Splash and use Volcanic Rune and Overload Heavy Attack to kill them, but frankly, it's still not usually enough burst.

I'm level 40 right now. I don't have bolt or mines yet, and realize they might be helpful when I get them. But until then, does anyone have advice on how I can fight DKs with flappy wings?

@josh.lackey_eso

not gonna hand you skils, but think about this, find a skills with a low tick time ( 0.5sec per tick) drop it on them, this will eat there stamina( preferable not resflectable) in this case i suggest putting a diseace on them also, either by skill or by weapon enchant,(diseace debuffs there healing abilities, making them spent more resourches on healing, and less on attacking you) the usage of a staff that is a channel isntead of a ball is recomended also since these cant be reflected ( combine these with a diseace enchant is a nice combo, healign and lightnings staffs have this ability and are not reflectable)

2ndly, you can negate them to make there wings stop for a few sec but timing is key, find the right monent ti cripple there spell usage and finish them, using any kind of stun is advice able, as soon as they dont break out of the stun, its your que to know that they are low or out of stamina, at this point start with a overkill of non reflected attacks, remeber wings can only reflect a certain amount, and last a certain amount, keep track of how long there up, and find a opening to tos a frag in there face for high damage, oens there stuned by any means, go nuts! and if they get out of it, they have spent alot of ressourches, but keep the presure up, and dotn losen up to much. it takes practice and findign of what skils you find handy to do this with. the above called skills are usuable for this, but alot of other options are also posible, find your way, and keep thee things in mind, i hope this helps also study up on the other dk abilities, half the fight is knowing what to expect from your enemie

Omgwtfbbq321

Most of the time I see a DragonKnight and its just 1v1 we leave each other alone. But being a full Magicka sorc, stamina attacks are where the pain comes from.

People foolishly cry about shield stacking, without realizing its not that great against stamina attacks.

Normally I will go down if they use a stamina attack to lower the Hardend Ward and then CC me with Wrecking Blow before I can recast. That's me out of the fight.

Healing ward isn't great either if they keep the pressure on.

On the other hand, if you are just throwing magic at them. They have enough time to keep applying the wards.

Brrrofski

Just light attack four times.

Unless a magica Dk, they'll run of magics for wings fairly quick.

Curse, streak, mines, dawnbreaker in between breaking their defenses down.

Maulkin

Brrrofski wrote: »

Just light attack four times.

Not good advice. Doesn't achieve anything.

Scales have 4" duration, by the time your 4th attack is fired the scales are up for renewal anyway and you just had a bunch of light attacks reflected back at you.

Only saving grace in this strategy is if you run Harness which will return more magicka than it costs and only slightly help with magicka sustain. But if the DK is running any form of DoT then that alone will trigger the magicka return from Harness to its cap of 3 per cast.

Thus light attacking is generally counter productive.

Asmael

Always keeping Velocious curse up is a must, C.Frag whenever they drop their wings (and if you do cast C.Frag the instant they reflect it, block it or dodge roll), mage's wrath is your main poke. Atronach is good to maintain pressure, be easily countered by Fossilize / Petrify or simply going away, so your best pick is Dawnbreaker.

Time a burst with Proxy det, Curse, Streak, medium weave, procced C.Frag and Dawnbreaker for the finishing blow.

Never, NEVER NEVER use Meteor on a DK.

Alcast

I flap my wings like sorc spam shields in a 1v1. Stalemate and we can both /cry and walk away.

Tankqull

Alcast wrote: »

I flap my wings like sorc spam shields in a 1v1. Stalemate and we can both /cry and walk away.

this

Maulkin

Tankqull wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

I flap my wings like sorc spam shields in a 1v1. Stalemate and we can both /cry and walk away.

this

Depends. Magicka DK vs Magicka Sorc is an almost endless fight due to harness and scales, true.

But the OP did not specify stamina or magicka DK from what I see (correct me if I'm wrong).

A stamina DK with drinks and shield breaker is a very anti-sorc build. Sorc is forced to go offensive as his defense is nullified and it's usually a much much shorter fight.

Derra

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Tankqull wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

I flap my wings like sorc spam shields in a 1v1. Stalemate and we can both /cry and walk away.

this

Depends. Magicka DK vs Magicka Sorc is an almost endless fight due to harness and scales, true.

But the OP did not specify stamina or magicka DK from what I see (correct me if I'm wrong).

A stamina DK with drinks and shield breaker is a very anti-sorc build. Sorc is forced to go offensive as his defense is nullified and it's usually a much much shorter fight.

You can just space and los them though. They either fight melee on your terms (in mines) or you´re gone.

Bipolo

josh.lackey_ESO wrote: »

But until then, does anyone have advice on how I can fight DKs with flappy wings?

My advice, don't travel back in time...

/NordDKtear

DannyLV702

Alcast wrote: »

I flap my wings like sorc spam shields in a 1v1. Stalemate and we can both /cry and walk away.

Any DK (who isn't some crazy elite) who spams their wings as much as i spam my hardened ward is dead in front of me lol

Maulkin

Derra wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Tankqull wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

I flap my wings like sorc spam shields in a 1v1. Stalemate and we can both /cry and walk away.

this

Depends. Magicka DK vs Magicka Sorc is an almost endless fight due to harness and scales, true.

But the OP did not specify stamina or magicka DK from what I see (correct me if I'm wrong).

A stamina DK with drinks and shield breaker is a very anti-sorc build. Sorc is forced to go offensive as his defense is nullified and it's usually a much much shorter fight.

You can just space and los them though. They either fight melee on your terms (in mines) or you´re gone.

I thought the OP was asking about duels, my bad