surprise attack: this is why pvp is overrun by faceroll stamblades (multiple images)

xylena

no other spammable instant consistently does this much damage, nor does any ability rotation outside minmaxed magicka sorcs... spamming your top dps ability should run you out of stamina quickly and be very easy to counter... but instead you can spam SA (or WB) pretty much endlessly, while trying to play defensively with blocking and/or rolling drains quickly becomes prohibitively expensive, meaning the best counter tactic is to just return more SA or WB spam at a higher net dps... both SA and WB have secondary effects that buff themselves, further rewarding players for spamming them

xylena

and to be clear, the only changes i would like to see to the NB class are

(1) reduce the damage on surprise attack

(2) consistent behavior for healing while cloaked - right now you can heal with momentum/vigor while invisible, but using magicka nb class heals or resto abilites will always pull you out of cloak, which is a massive advantage for stamblade over magblade

Weberda

How can it be a "surprise" attack after the first hit. Makes no sense.

tist

Yeah stam blades hit like a truck right now but they should.. The problem is they have too much survivability and sustain.

Derra

Highest surpise attack that hit me post patch was 13.8k. The numbers posted seem reasonable.

xylena

one thing that would help... the "major fracture" debuff should only apply if you successfully connect from stealth and stun the target

meanwhile i'll keep dreaming they add "minor breach" to concealed weapon

xylena

Highest surpise attack that hit me post patch was 13.8k. The numbers posted seem reasonable.

compared to 13.8k? sure... but when every moderately geared v16 NB spams a basic instant that cuts down 20-30% of your max health per hit, with no diminishing returns ever... well that's why so many pros and potatos alike have rerolled stamblade in the past month, the sustained net dps output in pvp is untouchable (outside maybe a few elite sorcs and stam dks)

Cinnamon_Spider

The number of NB this patch is insane. The last few nights I've had multiple groups of NB attacking me. I'm talking two or three on me spamming Ambush over and over together til they either kill me or the rest of their group catches up. Meanwhile, you can't move or cast anything.

The class definitely needs to be looked at and brought in line with the others. Last patch sorcs had the best offense and defense and without a doubt that is now what NB have.

eliisra

tist wrote: »

Yeah stam blades hit like a truck right now but they should.. The problem is they have too much survivability and sustain.

Yeah, compared to other classes rocking stamina dmg oriented builds, you have superior survivability, better sustain and magicka dumps as stamblade. Also why majority of the Cyrodiil population plays it.

Other stamina builds cant use their main class defensive skills and mechanics as frequently or even at all, since to costly, scaling of magicka or health. While everyone, including NB's, has access to Vigor + Rally.

But the dmg itself is similar to stamina builds. I use to eat 12-14k Surprise Attacks on a daily basis back in 1.6, basically 2 shot if you didn't perma block + stack shields. So this isn't so bad.

Lava_Croft

Surprise Attack's damage is ridiculous at the moment. Who needs Death Stroke.

This is purely a Stamina Nightblade problem, not a Magicka Nightblade problem.

Yonkit

The damage is ridiculous yes, but would you prefer a 40k stam 5k weapon damage stam sorc spamming WB on you, or a 34k stam 3k-4k weap dmg NB spamming Surprise Attack, they should just nerf the damage by a bit, 10-15%, cause last patch it did easily over 12k and I've seen it hit for 10k this patch, and with the nerf to healing you can't keep up with it anymore.

Derra

Lava_Croft wrote: »

Surprise Attack's damage is ridiculous at the moment. Who needs Death Stroke.

This is purely a Stamina Nightblade problem, not a Magicka Nightblade problem.

Well my magica NB crits for anything between 5 and 7k with concealed weapon while rocking 51% critchance (61% with potion up). Don´t think that´s fine either especially with the combination of lotusfan which still happens to be undodgeable even on the singletarget dmg part.

JDar

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

The number of NB this patch is insane. The last few nights I've had multiple groups of NB attacking me. I'm talking two or three on me spamming Ambush over and over together til they either kill me or the rest of their group catches up. Meanwhile, you can't move or cast anything.

The class definitely needs to be looked at and brought in line with the others. Last patch sorcs had the best offense and defense and without a doubt that is now what NB have.

You mean it takes more than one nightblade to take you down? Which class do you think is OP again?

Armitas

Hits for 13.8k, stuns, sets off balance, and reduces mitigation 8%. Wow, must be nice. I have a whip that has the same base damage as deep slash in the tanking line, and buffs the dots that I can never use in PvP.

Lava_Croft

Derra wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

Surprise Attack's damage is ridiculous at the moment. Who needs Death Stroke.

This is purely a Stamina Nightblade problem, not a Magicka Nightblade problem.

Well my magica NB crits for anything between 5 and 7k with concealed weapon while rocking 51% critchance (61% with potion up). Don´t think that´s fine either especially with the combination of lotusfan which still happens to be undodgeable even on the singletarget dmg part.

Pitiful damage compared to Surprise Attack.

Forestd16b14_ESO

First it was magical NB the new META now its stamina sounds like NBs are about to get the same treatment as DKs here soon.

Ganj

xylena wrote: »

Well to be honest this looks pretty normal to me. He might add some light attacks too but still it doesnt look any odd. There are people only spamming steel tornados, crystal fragments or wrecking blows like crazy. At least this dude used 3 different abilities and you couldnt dodge or block none of them clearly.

Levo18

What about L2P? Press block, dodge, walk trough him , anything just dont stand there and eat one attack after another. If u cant out-dps your opponent change the tactic.

Joy_Division

Weberda wrote: »

How can it be a "surprise" attack after the first hit. Makes no sense.

Because it is surprising just how much damage the spammable skill does

GreenSoup2HoT

I am a stamina nightblade and there are two reasons why people would assume surprise attack hits so hard.

Does everyone realize that literally every nb who plays this game uses popular twitch streamer builds. For instance, syhper has a 100% weapon damage built that he made and has been tailored for his playstyle. However every single nightblade you see these days regardless of there individual skill, uses this build. Its funny to see all the DW/2H nightblades out there. Snipe is almost none existent because of this lol. So many fan boys its comical. You can run caltrops and that one knock back skill on bows and kite these kids so easy. They eventually run out of stamina because of there ambush spam.

So i blame streamers for most threads regarding nerfs. Build diversity gets worse and worse for every new build video that gets introduced.

How many sets are used these days? It doesn't help Zos introduced these generic Imperial Sets and Jewelry sets. Good job limiting our choices.

I personally stay far away from streamers builds. You could create a counter for these builds and kill so much of the player base its astounding.

So i agree, when you build for 100% weapon damage and hit people with surprise attack it will hurt.

Build against it. Its not that hard

Cinnamon_Spider

JDar wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

The number of NB this patch is insane. The last few nights I've had multiple groups of NB attacking me. I'm talking two or three on me spamming Ambush over and over together til they either kill me or the rest of their group catches up. Meanwhile, you can't move or cast anything.

The class definitely needs to be looked at and brought in line with the others. Last patch sorcs had the best offense and defense and without a doubt that is now what NB have.

You mean it takes more than one nightblade to take you down? Which class do you think is OP again?

Well, you have to account for bad players and builds. There are plenty that can take me down alone if they catch me off guard, but some of you need a partner.

Angarato

this forum is full of pathetic pve-ers

CtrlAltDlt

You re complaining for 4 to 5.9k surprise attacks? . Ive gotte hit 5ks by jabs, 10k by wrecking truck, 5k by concealed..How about you start putting some CPs into resistant?

Armitas

Levo18 wrote: »

What about L2P? Press block, dodge, walk trough him , anything just dont stand there and eat one attack after another. If u cant out-dps your opponent change the tactic.

What?

xaraan

Yonkit wrote: »

The damage is ridiculous yes, but would you prefer a 40k stam 5k weapon damage stam sorc spamming WB on you, or a 34k stam 3k-4k weap dmg NB spamming Surprise Attack, they should just nerf the damage by a bit, 10-15%, cause last patch it did easily over 12k and I've seen it hit for 10k this patch, and with the nerf to healing you can't keep up with it anymore.

Yeah, it's damage for stam builds overall that is the problem. They used to be the worst option and then when they started buffing, they went too far.

tonemd

xylena wrote: »

one thing that would help... the "major fracture" debuff should only apply if you successfully connect from stealth and stun the target

meanwhile i'll keep dreaming they add "minor breach" to concealed weapon

On that day hopefully they add minor expedition to surprise attack

xylena

if you're directly comparing the dps of a cheap spammable instant to channels like jabs, or cast time moves like uppercut... well that about says it all, no? the meta is all about spammable dps right now and the only thing that consistently comes even close to surprise attack is wrecking blow and its 1-second windup... few players can connect on uppercuts consistently enough to out-dps an SA spammer

also this, queue the forum lawyers trying to point out possible technicalities, but anyone with more brains than a potatoe should be wondering why this is even possible in the first place...

americansteel

I just want to point something out n this one I noticed the ranks of these players all I can say wow and I know the amount of CP they have must be big.
do these people have anything else better to do? this game was meant to be a game that would last for many years with updates and DLC/expansions these clowns spend a lot of time in cyrodiil. incredible how many find the time.

QuebraRegra

WB, WB, WB, WB!!!!

done.

Wollust

Oh I thought the next skill to be nerfcryed for would be BoL. Guess I was wrong

Angarato

xylena wrote: »

if you're directly comparing the dps of a cheap spammable instant to channels like jabs, or cast time moves like uppercut... well that about says it all, no? the meta is all about spammable dps right now and the only thing that consistently comes even close to surprise attack is wrecking blow and its 1-second windup... few players can connect on uppercuts consistently enough to out-dps an SA spammer

also this, queue the forum lawyers trying to point out possible technicalities, but anyone with more brains than a potatoe should be wondering why this is even possible in the first place...

he used soul harvest increasing your damage taken by 20% also if we dual wield we get a 20% damage boost when you're below 25% health (which you obviously were if 6k damage killed you) you also might have blocked the others. only 3.2k damage on an ice comet is very very low. 6k damage with 40% damage boost really isnt that bad bruh