Remove all class CC's or Stop with Nerf Threads

TheNephilimCrow

With all these threads lately about Nightblades cloaking, fears, CCs. We seem to lose focus here. Nightblades are not the only class that can annoyingly CC. I've been talon'd, rune prisoned and pinned to the ground by javelins. On top of all the guild skills that can do the same things. And not to mention the weapon based skills such as Wrecking Blow, etc.

If you are wanting ZOS to nerf or remove one of the Nightblade's CC or Stun moves, then they might as well remove them all. Or, you can learn to adapt and figure out a way to counter moves.

I don't see anyone screaming that their favorite class should be nerfed, only the class they can't beat.

Imagine if Rock wanted to nerf Scissors because Scissors beat rock. It's ridiculous, but that's what all Nerf Threads are acting like...

Can we stop with the pointless nerf threads and get back to playing the game?

LBxFinalDeath

I personally feel like most of the want to nerf Nighttblades is stemming from people feeling that every other class has been nerfed but not Nightblade and they think its unfair.

TheNephilimCrow

LBxFinalDeath wrote: »

I personally feel like most of the want to nerf Nighttblades is stemming from people feeling that every other class has been nerfed but not Nightblade and they think its unfair.

That makes allot of sense, actually.

Cathexis

LBxFinalDeath wrote: »

I personally feel like most of the want to nerf Nighttblades is stemming from people feeling that every other class has been nerfed but not Nightblade and they think its unfair.

I am a stro advocate fo nerfing cloak, but I agree fundamentally.

TheNephilimCrow

Cathexis wrote: »

LBxFinalDeath wrote: »

I personally feel like most of the want to nerf Nighttblades is stemming from people feeling that every other class has been nerfed but not Nightblade and they think its unfair.

I am a stro advocate fo nerfing cloak, but I agree fundamentally.

But, the why, is what I don't understand. Cloaking is not overpowered or unfair. There is so many things people can use to pull people out of it. Allot of people use those skills and just don't realize it. Like last night, someone used Lightening Form and just got close to me and it pulled me out. Steel Tornado is another one that pulled me out. Caltrops, Encase, Dragon Talon, just to name a few. Radiant Magelight can do it, too.

It doesn't need to be nerfed, players just need to play smarter.

gashuffer75

TheNephilimCrow wrote: »

It doesn't need to be nerfed, players just need to play smarter.

This could be said about a lot of the skills that have been nerfed.

Makkir

My family owns a chain business of senior retirement apartments. All they (the old ppl) ever do is b*tch about everything under the sun. This forum reminds me of the summers I worked up there as a kid. Non stop complaining, less discussions, and whining whining whining.

G'damn kids need to go outside and play in the snow or something

Xsorus

As someone who plays a Nightblade most of the time...I gotta ask..What is with most people who play stealthers who think Stealth isn't generally "that bad" or "not overpowered"....esp stealth that you can bloody chain cast all day long.

I hate to tell you this..Dark Cloak in this game right now at this moment is overpowered...just like Bolt Escape was the previous patch..

Emma_Overload

LOL @ the deniers...

So, in between "countering" Cloak and dealing with your seemingly endless and unblockable CCs, when exactly are the rest of us supposed to be doing DAMAGE to Nightblades?

TheNephilimCrow

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

LOL @ the deniers...

So, in between "countering" Cloak and dealing with your seemingly endless and unblockable CCs, when exactly are the rest of us supposed to be doing DAMAGE to Nightblades?

I don't know if you have been paying attention, but basically any CC, Aoe and some spamable skills can pull us out. I can name three of the most common skills off the top of my head that can pull us out.

DK- Talon
Sorc- Encase
Temp- Puncturing

not to mention that two of those are CCs.


if you would like a complete list I will definitely put one together.

Omgwtfbbq321

Sorc- Encase <--- Encase you say... **Places it on skill bar**

contact.opiumb16_ESO

gashuffer75 wrote: »

TheNephilimCrow wrote: »

It doesn't need to be nerfed, players just need to play smarter.

This could be said about a lot of the skills that have been nerfed.

I remember the old days when the almighty "DK-dunmer-vampires" just said "L2P and adapt, you can do this, this and that to beat us, you guys are just bad". The fact is that they where the top 10 leaders in EU servers, and overpowerded.

Same scenario with other NBs now.

People must understand that when you have almost 80% of top ten players from the same class, their is a problem. We can assume that their is statistically the same amont of good players in ANY class, so in a well balanced game the leaderboard should be about 25% of each class. It's not.

eliisra

contact.opiumb16_ESO wrote: »

We can assume that their is statistically the same amont of good players in ANY class, so in a well balanced game the leaderboard should be about 25% of each class. It's not.

No you cant assume that. Because "good players" as in competitive or with most experience in PvP, will usually go for the class with the biggest advantages, most edge and hardest to counter. They aren't sentimental about adapting to stay apex predator, every single patch they change instead of crying like the casuals lol.

Dunmer/Altmer DK vamp was definitely in that category for a very very long time. No problem to counter, so easy, go go kill them with DoTs and resto light attacks.

We had magicka sorcs In 1.6. When you got rekt by someone with endless Bolt Escape, 40% movement buff, 30k shield stack, double toggle exploit and hardest hitting spell nukes in the game, you clearly had l2p issues. Same with 1.6 stamblade, rocking 100% armor pen bug, endless dodge and killing full heavy users in two hits. All this was also l2p issues.

Even 1.0.1 immortal vamps, was explained with l2p issues

Now a majority of the PvP population plays NB because Cloak is so easy to counter.

Anyway, when someone playing current fotm, starts preaching about l2p, it makes me sleepy. I usually just change topic or stop listening, if in-game.

TheNephilimCrow

Alright, guess what I'm saying isn't getting through to any of you. You say NB's are over powered. Tell me how? Because they go invisible and have an unblockable CC?

I've already pointed out three basic skills available to each class that can pull NB's out of cloak. The devs supplied you with resources to combat each class. It is your choice if you utilize it or not. I will be creating a list of every skill that can pull a NB out of cloak and posting it to this thread and a whole new dedicated forum. From there, if you still choose to complain, then you are just a bunch of whiners. No offense, but its basically true.

As far as the CC goes. It may be unblockable, but other classes have better CCs then NBs that actually damage upon trigger or during CC. Daedric Mines turns into a CC and damages upon trigger. Encase is a CC that's causes AoE damage for a morph. Talon has a synergy that can burn those trapped in. The thrown Javelin moves the Templar has is basically auto aimed and moves so fast you can rarely dodge it and, again, causes damage to you. In the since of power, Mass Hysteria does no damage. It causes people to run away, which in allot of cases will cause at least 2 of the 3 affected to move out of damage or other AoEs that is placed on their fight. So, tell me again, how is this overpowered when it does no damage? It's a minor inconvenience at best. While also keeping in mind how much self heals every class BESIDES NB has.

Should someone be in cloak forever, no, no they shouldn't. At the same time though, we aren't doing any damage to anyone while cloaked or else that would pull us out and back in the same situation. All I've ever noticed when fighting NBs is that its basically a retreating skill because we don't have heals to heal through all the DPS we're taking. It's only our defense with the lack of self heals. We cloak and use health pots or vigor, which is not a NB selfheal and most people don't have. I don't even have it yet. We cloak to heal up, just like any of you do when healing yourself during damage you're taking. Templar's especially.

Jahosefat

TheNephilimCrow wrote: »

As far as the CC goes. It may be unblockable, but other classes have better CCs then NBs that actually damage upon trigger or during CC. Daedric Mines turns into a CC and damages upon trigger. Encase is a CC that's causes AoE damage for a morph. Talon has a synergy that can burn those trapped in. The thrown Javelin moves the Templar has is basically auto aimed and moves so fast you can rarely dodge it and, again, causes damage to you. In the since of power, Mass Hysteria does no damage. It causes people to run away, which in allot of cases will cause at least 2 of the 3 affected to move out of damage or other AoEs that is placed on their fight. So, tell me again, how is this overpowered when it does no damage? It's a minor inconvenience at best. While also keeping in mind how much self heals every class BESIDES NB has.

You just compared a bunch of roots to a fear, lol. You can heal and do things while rooted (encase, mines, talons), you cannot while feared. Fear is a hard CC, roots are soft CC's (soft CC you roll out of, hard you have to break). They are in a different league. NB fear has been the stongest CC in the game for a long time, and now cloak is the most spammable GTFO skill in the game. Hence the forum backlash you seem to be so confused by.

Edit: And you can block the other hard CC in the game (jav, frags, etc.) to avoid CC, which you can't do with fear.

TheNephilimCrow

Jahosefat wrote: »

TheNephilimCrow wrote: »

You just compared a bunch of roots to a fear, lol..

No, actually, I compared CC's with damage to a CC without damage. The fact its Fear or Root is not relevant. The only one we have that can damage is Agony, but that is a weak CC in comparison to others. Any damage taken will break that. I didn't read the rest of your comment, because you LOL'd a mistake that wasn't a mistake. Creditability is zero.

xXNesTXx

TheNephilimCrow wrote: »

With all these threads lately about Nightblades cloaking, fears, CCs. We seem to lose focus here. Nightblades are not the only class that can annoyingly CC. I've been talon'd, rune prisoned and pinned to the ground by javelins. On top of all the guild skills that can do the same things. And not to mention the weapon based skills such as Wrecking Blow, etc.

If you are wanting ZOS to nerf or remove one of the Nightblade's CC or Stun moves, then they might as well remove them all. Or, you can learn to adapt and figure out a way to counter moves.

I don't see anyone screaming that their favorite class should be nerfed, only the class they can't beat.

Imagine if Rock wanted to nerf Scissors because Scissors beat rock. It's ridiculous, but that's what all Nerf Threads are acting like...

Can we stop with the pointless nerf threads and get back to playing the game?

Too many kids (or adults with child mind) playing this game.....that is the problem.....

The better thing that ZoS can do is restrict the feedback forums only to the test server users, and put end to all these crybabies threads

Waffennacht

TheNephilimCrow wrote: »

Alright, guess what I'm saying isn't getting through to any of you. You say NB's are over powered. Tell me how? Because they go invisible and have an unblockable CC?

I've already pointed out three basic skills available to each class that can pull NB's out of cloak. The devs supplied you with resources to combat each class. It is your choice if you utilize it or not. I will be creating a list of every skill that can pull a NB out of cloak and posting it to this thread and a whole new dedicated forum. From there, if you still choose to complain, then you are just a bunch of whiners. No offense, but its basically true.

As far as the CC goes. It may be unblockable, but other classes have better CCs then NBs that actually damage upon trigger or during CC. Daedric Mines turns into a CC and damages upon trigger. Encase is a CC that's causes AoE damage for a morph. Talon has a synergy that can burn those trapped in. The thrown Javelin moves the Templar has is basically auto aimed and moves so fast you can rarely dodge it and, again, causes damage to you. In the since of power, Mass Hysteria does no damage. It causes people to run away, which in allot of cases will cause at least 2 of the 3 affected to move out of damage or other AoEs that is placed on their fight. So, tell me again, how is this overpowered when it does no damage? It's a minor inconvenience at best. While also keeping in mind how much self heals every class BESIDES NB has.

Should someone be in cloak forever, no, no they shouldn't. At the same time though, we aren't doing any damage to anyone while cloaked or else that would pull us out and back in the same situation. All I've ever noticed when fighting NBs is that its basically a retreating skill because we don't have heals to heal through all the DPS we're taking. It's only our defense with the lack of self heals. We cloak and use health pots or vigor, which is not a NB selfheal and most people don't have. I don't even have it yet. We cloak to heal up, just like any of you do when healing yourself during damage you're taking. Templar's especially.

You want to know how? I'll give you a few examples as to why cloak is so good that the OP argument exists.

Example 1: Two guild mates and myself come across a NB in cracked wood. He is alone, I CC him my two allies attack. He breaks CC and instantly cloaks while all 3 of us have surrounded him. I spam my CC (in this case encase is what I was using) however he was not where I aiming. In this example, out numbered, out maneuvered and out gunned the NB still had complete control of the battle. Even using an AoE or CC has a low probability of contact. I also had detect pots, The first did reveal his location, but only briefly and once the effect ended he just re,cloaked and with such a long cooldown I could not use another.

Example 2: Alone im traveling and. Cloaked NB attacks, I fend off his attack and counter, again CCs can miss, and curses only show them when the damage occurs, all of which they can go back into cloak immediately. He continues attacks, while each time going into cloak only long enough to regen. Again, even though I was using supposedly anti NB devices they worked only momentarily

In each case the NB had complete control of engagement.

Im not advocating a cloak nerf just showing why people say its the best. Its a defense tactic, when ur dying just cloak out and regen, plus get an attack boost. Its offensive tactic with a pre engagement control and bonus.

It evades all NPCs, meaning the disadvantage of being attacked by NPCs for every other class becomes an advantage for the NB.