Why stamina NB is the best class 1.7/2.1 (PVP)

SRIBES

sabresandiego_ESO wrote: »

Good post, I have to agree with it. I do think that overall, magicka sorcs are at least on par with nightblades though. If it wasnt for the shield breaker set, magicka sorcs would still be the undisputed best class for pvp overall because of range damage, burst damage, survivability, and mobility.

Yeah my friend yoyuyi said the same thing. I think that stam nb > sorc but sorc is still super strong and in general i'm still one to argue that shield breaker should be removed and shields in general should be critable but I don't want to get off topic.

SRIBES

xylena wrote: »

really not sure the people QQing about magblades even know the difference between magblade and stamblade moves, and you'll see stamblades cloaking just as much as their magblade counterparts in IC skirmishing

The Ult you saw was from a terrible magicka nightblade. Surprise att can easily hit for 7k on a proper stamina build. My Soul Harvest tooltips for 12k+

nope, tis actually and EP friend of mine and he's one of the better magicka nbs i've gone up against... both the magblade and stamblade in the recap are skilled players/builders that have been playing since the beginning... the balance is so bad (for a number of reasons, not just SA damage being too high to begin with) that it doesn't even look real, but my no-life level of hours played tells me that

a geared minmaxed v16 magblade will hit 4-5k on their average concealed wep hit

a geared minmaxed v16 stamblade will hit 6-7k on their average surprise attack hit

not only is surprise attack consistently hitting for 50% more damage than its magicka counterpart(s), it consistently does more damage than cast/channel moves like snipe and flurry, and even more damage than some ultimates when players don't have enough CP to spec heavily into more than one dmg buff out of mighty, thaumaturge, and elemental dmg (somewhere i have a death recap pic of an opponent's surprise attack spam doing more damage per hit than their killers blade finisher when i had a sliver of health left)

reduce the base dmg of surprise attack, buff killers blade and power extraction

self healing while cloaking should behave consistently... magblade heals de-cloak you, stamblade heals don't... imo all self heals should de-cloak you the same way attacking would

Couldn't agree more about de-cloaking on heals xylena

Shogunami

Nightblades went from being utterly crap to being pretty good some patches ago, don't make us be *** again.

Nightblades' awesomeness is highly situational and in most situations (personally, 3/4 engagements/conflicts) Nightblades can't do mostly anything at all but die. I can pump out 30-40k damage within seconds but still don't make a dent in the HP of any class that has a damage shield. "Just get shield breaker LOL", well I'm working on it but it's proving kind of difficult because I can't do anything against most players unless I stealth around looking for single targets to gank - but I'm not that kind of a player, and so I end up dying over and over and over and over and over again in IC.


There is a problem with PvP in general in this game, players who learn how to do it just right, no matter the class, can kill 6 players in a group by themselves. While the avarage PvPer are cannon fodder.

Don't even start this crap about nerfing Nightblades, why don't you ask ZoS to take a look at the players who can outheal the damage of 10 players all attacking at once, and picking them off one by one?
"No, because that's skill HURR HURR." No, it's a broken PvP system.

Just like there are Nightblades that can ravage groups of players there are players of all the other classes who can do this as well. Fix the damn game and the damn PvP, don't nerf classes.

ToRelax

Shogunami wrote: »

Nightblades went from being utterly crap to being pretty good some patches ago, don't make us be *** again.

They were ok ish since 1.3/1.4 and probably strongest class since 1.5. I wouldn't call that a few patches, actually. >_>

Ishammael

Agreed mostly with OP. Absent shield breaker, I think magicka sorc would easily be #1 still. However, stamina nightblade and magicka nightblade are both exceptionally powerful. A straight, across the board comparison of skill coefficients, passives, and utility will reveal this. DK and templar of any flavor are proveably weaker.

Kas

i'd agree with your premise but i'd say the answer is simpler:

it is the best class because stamina is strong in general and no other class has magicka dumps that are nearly as good as fear and cloak. super stong skills, just as effective as for magicka builds (how often you cast them only depends on regen, what they do does not scale with magicka pool or the spelldamage).

Additionally ambush and surprise attack are also very good but I don't think NB's would suffer much if they just had to use wrecking blow and another gap closer. it's the magicka dumps that make them insanely good.

Gilliamtherogue

xylena wrote: »

surprise attack is OP faceroll dps right now, really dumbs down the stamblade class

And Whip Spam, Jabs Spam, WB spam, Overload Spam are any different?

Ezareth

xylena wrote: »

i think that was the impact of the meteor but i blocked it... the rest was definitely not blocked, and the stamblade had been spamming SA at me the whole chase... definitely not in stealth, no buffs from death stroke or ambush

getting focused Xv1 keeps bloodspawn 2pc buff going, i would've had 23k spell resist and 20k physical resist on a 5med 2hvy build during this fight (turns out i like my 5hvy 2med build better though)

That screenshot doesn't really say anything. Surprise attack damage is actually pretty weak. That was a crit, while the others were not. If that had been me on my stamblade it would be 12-15K Wrecking blow if it were a crit on a low health target.

OdinForge

As someone who put away his long time stamblade, threads like this make me very sad. It has been changed to be more geared to stamblade, but stamblade is a much different animal than magblade (mostly because of the disparity between the two styles).

With this type of damage reduction, heals probably should pull you from cloak as a stamblade. That would make it so much easier for non-NB classes to keep tabs on you.

There are some unsportsmanlike stamblades out there, lurking in the IC. They either work solo but near other allies, or they work in a group. They crouch at a tree near some action, wait for you to engage a mob or another player and snipe or wrecking blow you from stealth. Some classes and some builds can get around this, but many others are kind of helpless. If they fail to kill you, they run away and reset or they have their friends help them. I'm the kind of NB that likes to run around outside of stealth, but players like this ruin it for everyone.

I've seen people suggest Radiant Magelight, and I've seen people slam it as useless. I myself never used this ability before, opting instead for my class single slot piercing mark. I've started slotting it when I play IC or the sewers (as a reaction to the above mentioned stamblades). Yes it sucks losing two slots, i got rid of my gap closer or execute and piercing mark on my other bar. But the thing is it just works (and it works really well) at giving you the edge you need to pressure a NB that's cloaking around you.

I'm getting the feeling that many NB have a false sense of security with this skill, because not many people actually use it. Just like sparks in the old days that no one used, but worked amazing (especially against FoTM DK & NB of the time). I get confused rage whispers, people who think I have infinite detect pot buff or just outright hacking to see them.

I'd be cool if Radiant Magelight used one slot and was on a 15 or 20 second timer (edit: for one slot, probably 10 or 15 might be better). Otherwise as a NB i found two slots to lose, and haven't looked back. The skill just works for keeping tabs on a NB that's running or engaging you, a good NB will still fight under the effects of a detect pot or mark. But those moments when a NB doesn't know you're running Radiant Magelight, and he's trying to cloak spam away while being melted by single target.

Ezareth

OdinForge wrote: »

As someone who put away his long time stamblade, threads like this make me very sad. It has been changed to be more geared to stamblade, but stamblade is a much different animal than magblade (mostly because of the disparity between the two styles).

With this type of damage reduction, heals probably should pull you from cloak as a stamblade. That would make it so much easier for non-NB classes to keep tabs on you.

There are some unsportsmanlike stamblades out there, lurking in the IC. They either work solo but near other allies, or they work in a group. They crouch at a tree near some action, wait for you to engage a mob or another player and snipe or wrecking blow you from stealth. Some classes and some builds can get around this, but many others are kind of helpless. If they fail to kill you, they run away and reset or they have their friends help them. I'm the kind of NB that likes to run around outside of stealth, but players like this ruin it for everyone.

I've seen people suggest Radiant Magelight, and I've seen people slam it as useless. I myself never used this ability before, opting instead for my class single slot piercing mark. I've started slotting it when I play IC or the sewers (as a reaction to the above mentioned stamblades). Yes it sucks losing two slots, i got rid of my gap closer or execute and piercing mark on my other bar. But the thing is it just works (and it works really well) at giving you the edge you need to pressure a NB that's cloaking around you.

I'm getting the feeling that many NB have a false sense of security with this skill, because not many people actually use it. Just like sparks in the old days that no one used, but worked amazing (especially against FoTM DK & NB of the time). I get confused rage whispers, people who think I have infinite detect pot buff or just outright hacking to see them.

I'd be cool if Radiant Magelight used one slot and was on a 15 or 20 second timer (edit: for one slot, probably 10 or 15 might be better). Otherwise as a NB i found two slots to lose, and haven't looked back. The skill just works for keeping tabs on a NB that's running or engaging you, a good NB will still fight under the effects of a detect pot or mark. But those moments when a NB doesn't know you're running Radiant Magelight, and he's trying to cloak spam away while being melted by single target.

Yes Ironically NBs are the best killers of other nightblades. Piercing Mark hasn't left my bar since around level 30 or so. It is just so powerful for a Stamblade who doesn't rely on Suprise attack and opts for wrecking blow instead. I was fighting an Emperor magicka nightblade solo and had them dead (6% health) until they called in backup from other players because the player had no idea how to counter someone who they couldn't use cloak against.

Radiant magelight is a casual players best option for defending against stealth attacks but to other players your best defense is impenetrable + crit resistance CPs. If you're a sorc then just keeping your shields maxed.

I'm going to say this which I mentioned in another thread.

I've spent the past 4 months playing a Stamina Nightblade and I've developed a really good feel for the classes strengths and weaknesses. This weekend I levelled my Sorc to V16, crafted some gear for him and delved into the IC Sewers and the difference was night and day over my Stam blade. Everything that used to be hard became easy mode. Some Stam sorc jumped me and ended up being 2-shotted before he realized what was happened and lost thousands of stones. The only class I had trouble with was a Stam DK running sword and board with defensive posture but everything else was an order of magnitude easier.

Either I'm an incredibly terrible stamina nightblade and an exceedingly good magicka sorc (both of which I doubt right now as my sorc reactions are pathetic atm) or I'm just not seeing this imbalance.

I've never 2-shot anyone on my NB in 2.1. 7K Surprise attacks...an ability with a paltry 5 range? Laughable. How about power overloads for 15K from 36 meter range?.... and if I ever get my hands on Molag Kena..... Sorry guys, I don't see Stamina NBs being the best class in the game right now. They're going to beat many of the weaker matchups like magicka templar and magicka DKs but they are at best on par with magicka sorcs.

olsborg

I just leveld a stam nb to v16, got geared and started pvping(practicing) Its really good, alot of fun. But I feel stronger on my sorc, now that might be due to the fact that its a new class to me and completely new gameplay. It might be slightly op once the routine is in vs other classes(builds) but please dont nerf it, just buff other classes instead.

Xeven

Araxleon wrote: »

Stamina is on a league of its own, but magicka is equal to sorc.
dont kill magicka NB T_T (most stamina NB nerfs would effect magicka NB) sadly..

This is a really lame argument. Bolt Escape nerfs destroyed the ability for Stamina Sorcs. So too should Cloak nerfs destroy the ability for Stamina NightBlades, or vice versa.

NB is absurd right now. With the detection pot nerfs, MageBlades are easy mode.

I'm a MageBlade now too, so you can't fool me anymore with this garbage. There is a reason it's called NightBlades Online. All the cool kids are doing it now.

Ezareth

Xeven wrote: »

Araxleon wrote: »

Stamina is on a league of its own, but magicka is equal to sorc.
dont kill magicka NB T_T (most stamina NB nerfs would effect magicka NB) sadly..

This is a really lame argument. Bolt Escape nerfs destroyed the ability for Stamina Sorcs. So too should Cloak nerfs destroy the ability for Stamina NightBlades, or vice versa.

NB is absurd right now. With the detection pot nerfs, MageBlades are easy mode.

I'm a MageBlade now too, so you can't fool me anymore with this garbage. There is a reason it's called NightBlades Online. All the cool kids are doing it now.

Mageblades are the easiest kill in the game right now when their cloak is neutralized. FOTM builds are usually filled with bad players.

Xeven

Ezareth wrote: »

Xeven wrote: »

Araxleon wrote: »

Stamina is on a league of its own, but magicka is equal to sorc.
dont kill magicka NB T_T (most stamina NB nerfs would effect magicka NB) sadly..

This is a really lame argument. Bolt Escape nerfs destroyed the ability for Stamina Sorcs. So too should Cloak nerfs destroy the ability for Stamina NightBlades, or vice versa.

NB is absurd right now. With the detection pot nerfs, MageBlades are easy mode.

I'm a MageBlade now too, so you can't fool me anymore with this garbage. There is a reason it's called NightBlades Online. All the cool kids are doing it now.

Mageblades are the easiest kill in the game right now when their cloak is neutralized. FOTM builds are usually filled with bad players.

I know that Ezareth but what you failed to mention is it takes a NB to do that. No other class, I dont care if they have MageLight, AOE, Detect Pots, and Flare, will catch me.

Also, I don't even need cloak. I can fight most v16 toe to toe while battle leveled at v2, but it's always there if I want to cheese it.

Ezareth

Xeven wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Xeven wrote: »

Araxleon wrote: »

Stamina is on a league of its own, but magicka is equal to sorc.
dont kill magicka NB T_T (most stamina NB nerfs would effect magicka NB) sadly..

This is a really lame argument. Bolt Escape nerfs destroyed the ability for Stamina Sorcs. So too should Cloak nerfs destroy the ability for Stamina NightBlades, or vice versa.

NB is absurd right now. With the detection pot nerfs, MageBlades are easy mode.

I'm a MageBlade now too, so you can't fool me anymore with this garbage. There is a reason it's called NightBlades Online. All the cool kids are doing it now.

Mageblades are the easiest kill in the game right now when their cloak is neutralized. FOTM builds are usually filled with bad players.

I know that Ezareth but what you failed to mention is it takes a NB to do that. No other class, I dont care if they have MageLight, AOE, Detect Pots, and Flare, will catch me, ever.

I'd be happy to put that theory to the test on my Sorc ( =

17.4 seconds to kill a running nightblade spamming either cloak or healing ward. I'm sure many of them could escape, but many would also die as you have no real protection against overload other than to try to outshield it (Which isn't possible).

I'm not trying to say that cloak isn't extremely powerful right now, but magicka nightblades without cloak are extremely squishy.

Xeven

Ezareth wrote: »

Xeven wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Xeven wrote: »

Araxleon wrote: »

Stamina is on a league of its own, but magicka is equal to sorc.
dont kill magicka NB T_T (most stamina NB nerfs would effect magicka NB) sadly..

This is a really lame argument. Bolt Escape nerfs destroyed the ability for Stamina Sorcs. So too should Cloak nerfs destroy the ability for Stamina NightBlades, or vice versa.

NB is absurd right now. With the detection pot nerfs, MageBlades are easy mode.

I'm a MageBlade now too, so you can't fool me anymore with this garbage. There is a reason it's called NightBlades Online. All the cool kids are doing it now.

Mageblades are the easiest kill in the game right now when their cloak is neutralized. FOTM builds are usually filled with bad players.

I know that Ezareth but what you failed to mention is it takes a NB to do that. No other class, I dont care if they have MageLight, AOE, Detect Pots, and Flare, will catch me, ever.

I'd be happy to put that theory to the test on my Sorc ( =

17.4 seconds to kill a running nightblade spamming either cloak or healing ward. I'm sure many of them could escape, but many would also die as you have no real protection against overload other than to try to outshield it (Which isn't possible).

I'm not trying to say that cloak isn't extremely powerful right now, but magicka nightblades without cloak are extremely squishy.

I'll pass on that, lol. I don't even know how to NB yet, but somehow I'm still wrecking face. Where did you get 17.4 seconds? Detect pots are 15 point something seconds (IIRC). Also, we can't Streak them out like we used to. Once that pot is gone, they're gone. Even while the pot is active, they're so fast, they can easily get out of the radius.

Just sayin, I'm getting 12k Healing Wards. Fear spam combined with swallow soul weaving and I'm almost always on the offensive, and almost never in danger or in need of cloak.

It's interesting because I play it like a melee range Sorc and I'ts been surprisingly effective.

twistedmonk

I think magic sorcs and stamina NBs are pretty equal - depends on the player and which they are better with.

although shield breaker set is a hard counter to magic Sorcs though.

not sure an equivalent exists vs stamina NB - especially some NBs are now running 1h/shield + 2hander.

Xeven

Ezareth wrote: »

17.4 seconds to kill a running nightblade spamming either cloak or healing ward. I'm sure many of them could escape, but many would also die as you have no real protection against overload other than to try to outshield it (Which isn't possible).

I'm not saying you're wrong but I wanted to comment on this. As a Sorc, and now as a NB the last thing I wanted to do when I saw that Overload pop was run. That was my signal to get the f in his face because it's going to hurt if I don't. Usually the overload bar lacks utility and defense.

I fought a v12 overload Sorc on my v2 NB last night. Granted, he was a baby Sorc, I was able to get in his face and shut that *** down post haste. That and the damage nerf helps a lot vs Overload.

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO

Ok so it's time to do this AGAIN

Shadow Image and Claok: If by now you don't know to keep an eye on the shade with a bow not moving hitting you with weak arrows and that the Nightblade will port back to it you have no hope. It has to be dropped in Line of Sight.

Veiled Strike: Suprise Attack and Concealed weapons hit 400 points harder then other single targets of the person you are fighting is pushing as much weapon or spell damage as the can yes it hits even harder. Yes if you push everything in to Damage you hit hard I'm shocked.

Regeneration: 15% buff to any weak stat is weak now the magic or stamina is great but the health one sucks 15% of 300 is so weak. Have to run blue drink of Magic and Stamina regeneration to cloak more then three times. With 12% magic cost reduction to magic with CP and Two light Hundings Rage, just to have magic.

Dragon Knight stamina build ganking staying in stealth 2 second fights
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/222123/video-oneshot-compilation-just-for-the-lols

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO

Also you guys now that EVERY class is its own best counter right??

Nightblade: Cloak countered by Mark. High burst and weak heals without shields it's a battle of the CP count.

Sorcerer: Shield stacking and high mobility is countered with itself.

Templar: Great heals and loads of staying power countered but great heals, staying power and class healing debuffs.

Dragon Knight: Power to outlast and have a ton of health regen with a wide host of DoTs countered by itself also a battle of CP

Ezareth

Xeven wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Xeven wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Xeven wrote: »

Araxleon wrote: »

Stamina is on a league of its own, but magicka is equal to sorc.
dont kill magicka NB T_T (most stamina NB nerfs would effect magicka NB) sadly..

This is a really lame argument. Bolt Escape nerfs destroyed the ability for Stamina Sorcs. So too should Cloak nerfs destroy the ability for Stamina NightBlades, or vice versa.

NB is absurd right now. With the detection pot nerfs, MageBlades are easy mode.

I'm a MageBlade now too, so you can't fool me anymore with this garbage. There is a reason it's called NightBlades Online. All the cool kids are doing it now.

Mageblades are the easiest kill in the game right now when their cloak is neutralized. FOTM builds are usually filled with bad players.

I know that Ezareth but what you failed to mention is it takes a NB to do that. No other class, I dont care if they have MageLight, AOE, Detect Pots, and Flare, will catch me, ever.

I'd be happy to put that theory to the test on my Sorc ( =

17.4 seconds to kill a running nightblade spamming either cloak or healing ward. I'm sure many of them could escape, but many would also die as you have no real protection against overload other than to try to outshield it (Which isn't possible).

I'm not trying to say that cloak isn't extremely powerful right now, but magicka nightblades without cloak are extremely squishy.

I'll pass on that, lol. I don't even know how to NB yet, but somehow I'm still wrecking face. Where did you get 17.4 seconds? Detect pots are 15 point something seconds (IIRC). Also, we can't Streak them out like we used to. Once that pot is gone, they're gone. Even while the pot is active, they're so fast, they can easily get out of the radius.

Just sayin, I'm getting 12k Healing Wards. Fear spam combined with swallow soul weaving and I'm almost always on the offensive, and almost never in danger or in need of cloak.

It's interesting because I play it like a melee range Sorc and I'ts been surprisingly effective.

12K Healing wards with max benefits sure, but my overload is *hitting* for that.

I'm going off memory but I think with the Alchemy bonus Detect pots are 17.4 seconds. Could be 16.4, I forget TBH.

I'm still running Bolt Escape, I thought I'd try streak but 2.5 seconds still makes it worth it for me. Swallow soul will be hitting Bolt escape and with Overload I can spend 100% of my magicka on BoL. Crit Surge + degeneration means I don't even need shields. Also Defensive rune if you do end up hitting me is like the equivalent of wrecking blow + petrify except with Overload the wrecking blows are already on their way to you haha.

I've never tried a glass cannon build before in ESO, and only have a couple days on my Sorc so I've still got a ton of gearing + build changes to make. I'm definitely going to go sword + board however. The lost of reflect is just too painful to justify healing ward.

Xeven wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

17.4 seconds to kill a running nightblade spamming either cloak or healing ward. I'm sure many of them could escape, but many would also die as you have no real protection against overload other than to try to outshield it (Which isn't possible).

I'm not saying you're wrong but I wanted to comment on this. As a Sorc, and now as a NB the last thing I wanted to do when I saw that Overload pop was run. That was my signal to get the f in his face because it's going to hurt if I don't. Usually the overload bar lacks utility and defense.

I fought a v12 overload Sorc on my v2 NB last night. Granted, he was a baby Sorc, I was able to get in his face and shut that *** down post haste. That and the damage nerf helps a lot vs Overload.

I don't say this to brag or anything but I've never fought an overload sorc on my NB that I considered good really. Most of them are all overload and don't refresh their shields, the majority dont even tag target. If you go all offense on me when I have overload up with a detect pot you better pray I'm out of stamina (which is why I'm wearing blood spawn shoulders) or ultimate because I'm running Ball of Lightning, Daedric Mines, Crit-Surge(offbar) *and* degeneration, Hardened ward ~12K, Defensive rune, and magicka detonation(offbar). I don't even need to shield myself because a crit-surge proc or a degeneration proc will fully heal me with overload.

Not saying I couldn't lose but I don't see how I don't have the advantage as magicka NBs hit relatively weak on my build.

twistedmonk wrote: »

I think magic sorcs and stamina NBs are pretty equal - depends on the player and which they are better with.

although shield breaker set is a hard counter to magic Sorcs though.

not sure an equivalent exists vs stamina NB - especially some NBs are now running 1h/shield + 2hander.

I can't wait to run into a light attack spammer with shield breaker. You're doing 4K a second to me, I'm doing 12-24K a second to you with heals happening behind the shields. Shield breaker with 1 v 1 is garbage. It's only when someone is 1vXing and fighting multiple people that it really shines against the person who can't devote his attention to you because several others are on him.

SRIBES

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

Ok so it's time to do this AGAIN

Shadow Image and Claok: If by now you don't know to keep an eye on the shade with a bow not moving hitting you with weak arrows and that the Nightblade will port back to it you have no hope. It has to be dropped in Line of Sight.

Veiled Strike: Suprise Attack and Concealed weapons hit 400 points harder then other single targets of the person you are fighting is pushing as much weapon or spell damage as the can yes it hits even harder. Yes if you push everything in to Damage you hit hard I'm shocked.

Regeneration: 15% buff to any weak stat is weak now the magic or stamina is great but the health one sucks 15% of 300 is so weak. Have to run blue drink of Magic and Stamina regeneration to cloak more then three times. With 12% magic cost reduction to magic with CP and Two light Hundings Rage, just to have magic.

Dragon Knight stamina build ganking staying in stealth 2 second fights
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/222123/video-oneshot-compilation-just-for-the-lols

Of course I know to keep an eye on shadow image 1v1, I drop caltrops on top of it to make it that much harder on the caster in the fight. However this gives the user a mobility advantage over every other class and is so strong 1vX. NB is so strong for 1vX, it has so much mobility.

The damage you get from surprise attack is what i'm talking about, not concealed. Surprise is the best stamina attack in the game imo. It hits hard, it's cheap, it works so well with ambush and cloak. Stamina sorc and stamina DK need molten whip/a melee crystal shards and then ZOS has to add in a reduce physical damage CP. The other option I see here is that surprise attack does not get a stamina morph. Stamina is king for every class this update (besides for sorcs) and NB is way better than any other class at stamina. Even with a stamina whip and stamina melee frags, NB will still be slightly better. I understand that this game is a MMO and can't be balanced perfectly but stamina whip and frags would be close enough. If you try to argue that stamina is not the best on NB I honestly think you're either a NB who doesn't wanted to get nerfed or you are delusional. As I stated, the damage or sustain must be toned down but let NB keep its mobility. If it is not nerfed other classes need love to be brought up to its level.

All I was arguing for the regen is that on top of the recovery it can pull you can use siphoning attacks which leads to perma sustain and is to much.

As for that DK video, not sure why you linked it as it's not relevant to NB.
Although I did use a molten weapon bow build on the PTS for awhile and it's annoying af because you can't really stealth if you don't one shot someone and it doesn't work on sorcs with shields. A NB using duel wield with camo hunter and surprise attack will murder any player and will gank much better than say a DK. I'm not a fan of PvP montages because they're not really realistic. I main a v16 stam DK and have two V16 stam NB's which I play a lot so I have a lot of PvP experience with both. Trust me when I say this, stam NB is much better than stam DK, unless you're going for the sword and shield tank stam approach.

Jitterbug

NoRefunds wrote: »

stam sorc(see king richard or fengrush builds) are extremely good

I'm not disagreeing with you but it's a far cry from great players like the two you mention making something work to something actually being good.

SRIBES

NoRefunds wrote: »

even with shield breaker magika sorcs are still the strongest build for normal pvp since they are the only class that can actually kill people from range while keeping melee enemies in check with mines and streak, in dueling dks are extremely strong(see your build or some magika builds) but they have no mobility and low burst so they are pretty bad in normal zergy pvp, templars healing is insane and it takes 20 min to kill a good one using 1h-shield and phoenix set, stam NB and stam sorc(see king richard or fengrush builds) are extremely good for normal pvp because they have extreme burst and awsome mobility and survability. In the end i think that the main reason why stamina NB is a bit superior to the other classes stamina builds is surprise attack, which has very good instant burst, armor debuff and buffs you armor-spell res by 5k for free, cloak is a good skill but its effective only vs people not using any kind of aoe, usually DKs, which is probably the reason why its bothering you so much, but if you try to play with your nb for a while you will see that 80% of the times it gets hard countered by aoe spam or mark

I have played my NB for awhile. My main nb I like to play is alliance rank 17 and the other is 28. I play it a lot actually and honestly it's much better than my DK 1v1, but I still prefer DK. I really don't care about 1v1 but it's just so much easier for me to 1vX on a NB than any other class and a lot of people can agree. 1v1 it is the best class because it can control the outcome of fights with cloak but there are still counters, even though slotting them will probably gimp your normal build. I agree that it is mainly surprise attack though.

Don't really think my normal build is bad in normal PvP though lol, watch some of Kodi's youtube videos of our guild aristocracy and you'll see us wiping raids with 3-6 guys which most of the videos i'm in. Steel tornado, caltrops, rapids and banner is very very strong and can still provide nice burst with leap. For solo I can hold my own but perform much better with a NB because it's just much better than DK.

Ezareth

Jitterbug wrote: »

NoRefunds wrote: »

stam sorc(see king richard or fengrush builds) are extremely good

I'm not disagreeing with you but it's a far cry from great players like the two you mention making something work to something actually being good.

Yeah there is literally nothing in the Sorc arsenal that lends itself to Stam better than Nightblade abilities.

Hell it's so bad that Fengrush freaking slots Atronach just to get the 20% stamina regen.

Those two players are successful because they both have very high champion points, are extremely skilled with *all* in game mechanics and understand all classes well. Both players would be far more effective on Stamina nightblades than they would sorc. I for one would hate to run into a Fengrush stamblade.

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO

@ChannelTribes Siphoning Attacks was great for sustain but have to hit it every 15 seconds and spamming light attacks makes it just suck

And I'm a Nightblade read my tag line. But I have also taken other powers over Surprise Attack.

Heroic Slash: Does 400 points less then Suprise Attack, but also drops your enemies damage by 15%, snares and give you bonus ultimate. More then making up the damage different.

Rapid Strikes: That fact that it has five chances to crit is awesome

Wrecking Blow: Do I need to make a case here? Don't think so.

That's three Stamina Melee alternatives to Surprise Attack that I actually use if I need more then just burst like a CC, debuff or higher burst.

To you point of Gap closing on Sorc is useful vs everyone how useful is my Mark vs non Nightblades I don't need the 5k armor debuff that's like 6% more damage done. The heal is only after you kill them. It's whole point on my car is anti Nightblade. Much like my whole reason for Reverberating Bash is anti Templar.

Sure I can use mark and get benefits from it but is it really better then other powers I could have in its place? Reverberating Bash's healing debuff is great but unless my enemy can heal for a lot really fast the low damage and free CC immunity makes it trash, but I run it just for Templars. I can tell you as a stamina Nightblade when it comes on the DPS I can run much better powers but sacrifices must be made.

sabresandiego_ESO

Stamina nightblades have some highly overlooked weaknesses. In general, they have little to no range. Bow is more of a support weapon than a main weapon and has trouble killing on its own. Stamina in general lacks range, so you could say this is an issue of stamina. Secondly, nightblades tend to be squishier than dks and templars on average. Stamina is best on a NB than any other class mainly because of surprise attack which is instant, and good magicka dumps of fear and cloak.

Magicka sorcs on the other hand are unparralleled in all aspects of pvp. They have insane damage, which is all burst damage, and its all ranged burst damage. This is a gigantic advantage. They also have extreme defense from their shields and mobility. Literally the only thing making magicka sorcs close to balanced is shield breaker, and a 1on1 fight between a stam nightblade wearing shield breaker and a mag sorc is pretty even and comes down to skill, luck, and champ points. Outside of shield breaker, magicka sorcs are grossly overpowered for pvp.

Ezareth

sabresandiego_ESO wrote: »

Magicka sorcs on the other hand are unparralleled in all aspects of pvp. They have insane damage, which is all burst damage, and its all ranged burst damage. This is a gigantic advantage. They also have extreme defense from their shields and mobility. Literally the only thing making magicka sorcs close to balanced is shield breaker, and a 1on1 fight between a stam nightblade wearing shield breaker and a mag sorc is pretty even and comes down to skill, luck, and champ points. Outside of shield breaker, magicka sorcs are grossly overpowered for pvp.

Man, we have some very different views when it comes to Magicka NBs but then again we also have very different builds.

On my Stamblade with defensive posture / piercing Mark / Wrecking blow and Deep slash, a magicka nightblade is the easiest kill in the game. Once you get them on the defensive with wrecking blow, if they do anything other than spam healing ward it's curtains for them the moment they go offensive unless it's fear. Deep slash keeps maim active, snares them which makes WB easier and in most cases you can kill them in the space of a single immovable pot.

I guess I just have to fight some good Magicka NBs. All the ones I run into are not impressive, despite showing skill.

Xeven

Ezareth wrote: »

I can't wait to run into a light attack spammer with shield breaker. You're doing 4K a second to me, I'm doing 12-24K a second to you with heals happening behind the shields. Shield breaker with 1 v 1 is garbage. It's only when someone is 1vXing and fighting multiple people that it really shines against the person who can't devote his attention to you because several others are on him.

This is enlightening, and probably true. A good reason for me to actually slot the ultimate, and surge. It's refreshing to learn from different playstyles.

Without overload and surge though, you're going to have a really rough time vs a competent SB Stamblade in the wild. (If you're not specifically built to counter it.)


Edit because it must be said:
DK with shield breaker will shut this down.

SRIBES

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

@ChannelTribes Siphoning Attacks was great for sustain but have to hit it every 15 seconds and spamming light attacks makes it just suck

And I'm a Nightblade read my tag line. But I have also taken other powers over Surprise Attack.

Heroic Slash: Does 400 points less then Suprise Attack, but also drops your enemies damage by 15%, snares and give you bonus ultimate. More then making up the damage different.

Rapid Strikes: That fact that it has five chances to crit is awesome

Wrecking Blow: Do I need to make a case here? Don't think so.

That's three Stamina Melee alternatives to Surprise Attack that I actually use if I need more then just burst like a CC, debuff or higher burst.

To you point of Gap closing on Sorc is useful vs everyone how useful is my Mark vs non Nightblades I don't need the 5k armor debuff that's like 6% more damage done. The heal is only after you kill them. It's whole point on my car is anti Nightblade. Much like my whole reason for Reverberating Bash is anti Templar.

Sure I can use mark and get benefits from it but is it really better then other powers I could have in its place? Reverberating Bash's healing debuff is great but unless my enemy can heal for a lot really fast the low damage and free CC immunity makes it trash, but I run it just for Templars. I can tell you as a stamina Nightblade when it comes on the DPS I can run much better powers but sacrifices must be made.

Why would you spam light attacks? The whole light attack part of siphoning attacks is weaving in attacks in and animation canceling to get the proc. I think siphoning attacks sustain can easily be compared to DK's battle roar and the sustain is roughly on the same level if you use it correctly.

You mean to tell me you think wrecking blow, heroic slash and rapid strikes are better than surprise attack?
Heroic Slash has a pretty beefy cost and if you don't have the regen a stamblade has, not really worth using it as a main DPS skill. You can't cloak up and wait to regen to keep spamming it again so it's not as practical as you think but still a decent skill, I would prefer ransack.
Rapid Strikes? You would really take this over surprise.. It has a cast time so the first hit will take you out of cloak you can't animation cancel it with a bash or light attack really because it's best to just spam it.
Wrecking blow? I think you do need to make a case here, it's even easier to avoid than rapid strikes. You can see that skill from a mile away it puts you at a weakness 1vX just like rapid strikes because of the cast time.
Please just stop, you even get extra armor and spell resist from casting surprise.